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CU Medallion [66276]
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Need some guidance on vehicles
Aug 6, 2021, 9:00 AM
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Our two oldest girls are twins, they have a car they share along with their younger sister. The oldest twin wants to buy her own car.
Maybe I've been stuck in my old bias, but I've tried to steer her exclusively to a Japanese supplier. I have a huge bias against the domestic manufacturers.
Am I way off base ? What am I missing ?
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Heisman Winner [136337]
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If you want her to gain independence and develop her
Aug 6, 2021, 9:03 AM
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mechanical skills, I recommend a vehicle of British manufacture
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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or a GM 4 cylinder of any make/type***
Aug 6, 2021, 9:04 AM
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Lot o points [156090]
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Lot o points [163012]
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Guilty as charged
Aug 6, 2021, 9:04 AM
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I have not purchased "American" since a Pontiac J2000 circa 1982 or whatever that pos was called.
That being said, I am positive many of the vehicles I have purchased have been assembled in the US.
I ain't never gonna be sold on American quality vs. Honda/Toyota. I will say my dip into a BMW was not enjoyed, but that was as much the dealership in Greenville vs. the product.
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Hall of Famer [24491]
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A new Chevy Citation did it for me. Hondas ever since.
Aug 6, 2021, 9:32 AM
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Well, I do have a Jeep, but that's not really in the import/domestic squabble. In 1995 I did buy a 1987 BMW 533. Man, I wish I had it back. But Honda's otherwise.
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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Kinda like a Ford's, everyone should have a BMW.
Aug 6, 2021, 9:33 AM
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Once.
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All-In [46871]
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Buddy of mine just sold his BMW because it cost
Aug 6, 2021, 10:14 AM
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$400 to change out the battery because only the dealership could do it
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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lulz..thats nothing. Thats like an intro to BMW ownership
Aug 6, 2021, 10:22 AM
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Much like land rovers, the quality has gone to such chit on those cars that its best to never own one that not under warranty. $12K transmission? YES PLEASE
The 7/8 series has worse resale than a used diamond engagement ring. I've been watching a youtube channel that shows this guy tear town high end engines...and BMW's are almost always the worst (Except for 6.4l Hemi's). The BMW's have got to be some of the worst engineering ever put to manufacturing--and that's just the engines.
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Lot o points [156090]
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Like anything, it depends.
Aug 6, 2021, 12:23 PM
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The high water mark of BMW engines were the big I6's. I think the last one was used in a vehicle in the base 2006 3-series.
Fantastic engine though, runs forever, Overbuilt (other than a disposable water pump that you need to treat like a preventative maintenance item), and very easy to work on.
Like a lot of car manufacturers, things went to sheet when they tried to keep/increase performance while going green. I wouldn't own a turbocharged modern-era BMW if I had to. Fragile and unreliable post-warranty period.
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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Yep. That I6 was their best engine.
Aug 6, 2021, 12:26 PM
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The V8 turbos are junk on steroids.
Its ashame to see how BMW has declined.
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Lot o points [156090]
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Two really bad things happened in the early 2000's.
Aug 6, 2021, 12:38 PM
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The BMW board went full steam ahead on being a green company. Not really surprising as the green party seems to rule over all else in Germany. Whether you agree with the movement or not, BMW's engineering went to crap after that as everything became bleeding edge in their attempt to have their cake and eat it too.
BMW decided they wanted some of that Lexus market share, which meant abandoning "Ultimate Driving Machine" as their primary corporate motivator. Cars got bloated, floaty, and overly cush. There hasn't been a 5 series yet that has equaled the 97-2003 5 series in the driving enjoyment category.
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Hall of Famer [24491]
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CU Medallion [60091]
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If you lived up here, you would realize why your
Aug 6, 2021, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to Guilty as charged ] |
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take is a really bad one for the American worker and supplier. I never knew what it took to make a vehicle until we moved up here....its is quite astonishing all of the stamping factories, supplier companies and production facilities to make it happen. Even from just fabric for a seat or carpet for the floor....its amazing how many people it takes to make a new car happen.
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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That doesn't mean we are better at it than anyone else.
Aug 6, 2021, 12:06 PM
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In fact, it might be a reason why we (the US automakers) are worse at it than others.
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Lot o points [156090]
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That’s not a terrible way to go
Aug 6, 2021, 9:05 AM
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But the days of Japanese cars being bulletproof despite any amount of neglect and abuse sort of ended in the 90’s/early 2000’s.
A Japanese car has a better chance of being reliable, but their cost cutting measures have made it imperative to buy a well maintained one just like any other car.
With that said, a 2004 Buick Lesabre (or any GM car with the 3800 series V6) will still be running long after we are dead, so the “all American cars are crap” mindset isn’t totally true.
Stay away from German unless you’re comfortable turning wrenches.
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CU Medallion [56190]
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I never heard of a triple square until l bought German.
Aug 6, 2021, 10:36 AM
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Had to go to three different auto parts stores to find a tool.
My car is great and everything, but l’ve never experienced so much weird #### on a car before. Last week l learned that l have a tire pressure light reset button in my glove compartment.
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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"The oldest twin.."
Aug 6, 2021, 9:05 AM
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I don't think they're twins.
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CU Medallion [66276]
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She's two minutes older***
Aug 6, 2021, 9:09 AM
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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I bet she walks around like her #### don't stink too.***
Aug 6, 2021, 9:17 AM
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All-In [43934]
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I would keep the search fairly broad
Aug 6, 2021, 9:07 AM
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Among Toyotas
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Lot o points [156090]
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That’s old school.
Aug 6, 2021, 9:08 AM
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If it’s something from the last 5-7 years, Kia/Hyundai has Toyota beaten in manufacturing quality.
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CU Medallion [66276]
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Really ?
Aug 6, 2021, 9:10 AM
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Lot o points [156090]
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Yessir, fo real.***
Aug 6, 2021, 9:11 AM
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All-In [43934]
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Not sure, but a 5-7 year old toyota may be out of price
Aug 6, 2021, 10:00 AM
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range. So yeah, get a 10 year old Camry and be done with it.
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Lot o points [156090]
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Which is why, for a high schooler, I’m buying
Aug 6, 2021, 10:10 AM
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A 2015 Kia Soul all day long for $10k over a $14-15k 2011 Camry.
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All-In [43934]
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Dayum. You know mucho about cars, amigo.
Aug 6, 2021, 10:20 AM
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I'm just not there yet. Maybe I should be.
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Lot o points [156090]
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Too much, probably. I'm like rain man on the topic and
Aug 6, 2021, 12:41 PM
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nothing can kill a party faster than someone mentioning cars in casual conversation while I'm standing there. I just love the topic in general I guess.
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CU Medallion [51559]
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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My mother has a '13 Tucson I bought for her
Aug 6, 2021, 9:16 AM
[ in reply to That’s old school. ] |
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thats been a good car, but she is 84, and has only put about 20K miles on it since then.
Its loud inside though, but doe have surprisingly good pick up. The radio surround has turned to a rubber like goo from the sun. I know the 10 year warranty they touted when we bought it has declined more than it covered, despite getting all and any service work performed at the dealer.
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Lot o points [156090]
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It’s splitting hairs for sure, they’re both good, but
Aug 6, 2021, 9:25 AM
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Just reading some industry articles, the Korean manufacturing processes are super impressive nowadays.
There’s a reason the Landcruiser was $80+k. It was the last Toyota built in Japan to the same high standards as a 1992 Cressida. It’s almost depressing to Google “Toyota decontenting” and see the moves they made in the mid-90’s.
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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Compare their quality today to anything else out there.
Aug 6, 2021, 9:30 AM
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Still no real contest.
We still have our 2008 V8 4Runner..I put plugs in at 106K miles a few weeks ago. It's the only car I've never wanted to sell, chalky white paint and all.
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Lot o points [156090]
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In 2008, no question.
Aug 6, 2021, 9:32 AM
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If you held a gun to my head and said I had to get a 2021 sonata or Camry and keep it 10 years, I’m going Sonata every time though.
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Oculus Spirit [85559]
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Lot o points [156090]
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Welp, you just jinxed that.
Aug 6, 2021, 9:48 AM
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Look for the Honda to spit a piston out before the weekend is over.
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Oculus Spirit [85559]
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The Honda is long gone, on the Ford now and under warranty
Aug 6, 2021, 9:54 AM
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Probably just replaced my repair costs with new vehicle purchases.
Wife has had 0 issues with her 2014 CRV. She has 85K miles on it?
I think we paid 20,500 for it new, owned for 7 years, kbb is $14K private party
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All-TigerNet [12609]
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Re: Need some guidance on vehicles
Aug 6, 2021, 9:08 AM
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Subaru. Peppy accelerator, great visibility and 5* crash rating.
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Lot o points [156090]
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And thousands of dollars in parts that begin breaking
Aug 6, 2021, 9:09 AM
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Like clockwork at 75-90k miles.
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All-TigerNet [12609]
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Re: And thousands of dollars in parts that begin breaking
Aug 6, 2021, 9:14 AM
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Maybe in the newer models? My adult kids had a 2003 and a 2008 which they drove the hades out of with very little mechanical issues. The sheet metal doesn't like even a stern look, but in my N of 2, Subaru was very reliable. Maybe we were lucky?
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Hall of Famer [24491]
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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"Peppy accelarator?"
Aug 6, 2021, 9:19 AM
[ in reply to Re: Need some guidance on vehicles ] |
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Have you actually driven a Subaru...ever? You can call them a lot of things (head gasket blowers, timing chain jumpers, oil leakers--all around 90K miles) but peppy isn't in the Live5 super duper Doppler2000® radar range.
I'm referring to the normally aspirated boxer 4 cylinder they've been making for about 40 years. This doesn't count the one they made for a while that had that stupid wing on the back that was probably in a few of the fast and furious movies.
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All-TigerNet [12609]
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Re: "Peppy accelarator?"
Aug 6, 2021, 10:01 AM
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Yes. The 2008 model I referred to had a 4 cylinder 2.5L turbo and went 0-60 in under 6 seconds. Plenty of pep to pass or merge. Again, my experience with 2 of them was good, but perhaps I was lucky. I'll take your word and that of Obed's that overall the Subarus may well suck.
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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Like Obed said, they seem stable unti they get to that
Aug 6, 2021, 10:33 AM
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80-90K mark. Most of the engines that Subaru puts in their cars aren't turbo, so the run of the mill outback is dangerously slow to drive onto off ramps.
Then they just kind of self destruct. It starts with an oil or antifreeze leak. That's a signal for bad head gaskets. And once the the Japanese air is let out of it, its all down hill from there.
The timing chain guides break, the timing chain lets go, and then that's a new engine due to it being an interference engine. I won't even start with the CVT transmissions.
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Orange Blooded [4104]
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Re: Need some guidance on vehicles
Aug 6, 2021, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: Need some guidance on vehicles ] |
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Subaru is currently more expensive than Acura...
Find a Mazda 3 and be done with it.
Used value is relatively low and quality is relatively high.
I used to love Nissan but the last one we had crapped out way early and build quality wasn't great.
Message was edited by: castaway®
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All-In [38514]
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Korean is the new Japanese.
Aug 6, 2021, 9:10 AM
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Hyundai
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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You're not wrong
Aug 6, 2021, 9:13 AM
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There are a few sprinklings here and there of American quality, but picking the fly chit out of the pepper can be someone else's job.
To even narrow down your choices, I suggest staying with Toyota, then Honda in a deep second. Hyundai/Kia could probably make it as a tie to Honda with the added benefit of worse resale, so they are cheaper used. IMO, Nissan is almost equal to or less than Ford quality, so they are way down the line. They may have improved recently, but it got so bad for awhile that I'm surprised they stayed in business in America.
Camry's, Corolla's and the smaller SUV's like the RAV4 and the other one that's all numbers I can't remember the name of are excellent quality vehicles that take a lot of abuse. Unfortunately, every rose does have its thorn ($1 to Brett Michaels) and Toyota paint sucks pig bawls on the lighter colored vehicles, but that only makes it look bad after a few years, not drive bad or break down.
Another caveat: If your area is prone to rodents, Toyota does have two class actions suits they are fighting about their wiring insulation being made of soy based vinyl, so basically, the hardest wires to get to buried in the engine are a mouse's dessert.
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Hall of Famer [21990]
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Second this
Aug 6, 2021, 9:28 AM
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Japs are the way to go, and nissans are the saturns of Japan.
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Oculus Spirit [78977]
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get a Mazda
Aug 6, 2021, 9:25 AM
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made in Japan
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Lot o points [156090]
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Good choice too but
Aug 6, 2021, 9:27 AM
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Good lawd the resale values are crazy.
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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Yeah I forgot about those.
Aug 6, 2021, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to get a Mazda ] |
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I've driven a few that were good cars, even had a rental for a week of the sport version of the mazda 3. It was surprisingly fun to drive.
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Oculus Spirit [79454]
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Our main regret is not getting the turbo***
Aug 6, 2021, 9:30 AM
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Oculus Spirit [85559]
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Are we so poor in the lunge that we can't afford a new car
Aug 6, 2021, 9:31 AM
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with a true brue warrantry for each of our children???
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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I find it distasteful, if we're being honest.***
Aug 6, 2021, 9:32 AM
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Lot o points [156090]
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CU Medallion [66276]
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Heisman Winner [119829]
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A nice used A4 would be cool
Aug 6, 2021, 9:35 AM
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Unless she’s a heifer ??
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Lot o points [156090]
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Worst advice in the history of the lounge.
Aug 6, 2021, 9:36 AM
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And if you do want to buy her one despite this, I have an A4 with a blown engine sitting on the back lot at my mechanic that I’ll let you have CHEAP.
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Heisman Winner [119829]
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I changed the turbo gasket myself on mine, easy peasy
Aug 6, 2021, 10:21 AM
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Mine ran forever very well...
Obed®
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Heisman Winner [119829]
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Oh yeah, I forgot that obeds never change the oil.....
Aug 6, 2021, 10:23 AM
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All-In [49250]
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Mazda 3 or CX5.
Aug 6, 2021, 9:46 AM
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daughter of started with a 3, now has the top trim of the prior CX5. No problems with either.
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Oculus Spirit [78977]
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my Mazda 3 lasted forever
Aug 6, 2021, 9:49 AM
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ran that baby into the ground
miss you Betty!
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Heisman Winner [135749]
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I suggest a Toyota Hilux pickup truck.
Aug 6, 2021, 9:54 AM
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There are really few better options if she plans to install a .50 caliber machine gun on the vehicle she's going to purchase. She needs to be thinking ahead.
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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Have you seen the Whistin' Diesel guy try to destroy one?
Aug 6, 2021, 10:12 AM
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He finally, literally, dropped it from a helicopter from 5000 feet.
He tried killing it for weeks, but it wouldn't die.
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Lot o points [156090]
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Was he recreating the old Top Gear segment?***
Aug 6, 2021, 10:13 AM
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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Oculus Spirit [79454]
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I simply cannot respect people who do #### like this
Aug 6, 2021, 10:29 AM
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Why destroy it?!? WHY????
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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Yeah, that one got me. It was pretty clean.
Aug 6, 2021, 10:42 AM
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I don't know he came to own it.
I REALLY wanted a Toyota LC79..Gladiator was the closest I could get. I mean who needs all that cumbersome Toyota quality on a vehicle that will probably live longer than I will?
waaaay second best:
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Lot o points [156090]
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If they figured out a way to get those legal in the States,
Aug 6, 2021, 12:18 PM
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it would outsell the FJ cruiser 5-1.
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
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Joined: 9/13/04
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They may finally quit making them in 2022.
Aug 6, 2021, 12:32 PM
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Those things are awesome. Probably one the toughest trucks ever made. I think they talked about trying to introduce it to the US market back in 2016, but for some reason just backed off of the work needed to Americanize it. The US auto market isn't any better for it, that's for sure. That vehicle would have completely turned the "slightly larger than midsize" truck market upside down.
Man I'd love to have 2021 model. I've done some research on getting a LC75, and "upgrading" it to the LC 79. But in the end, I'd have a $200,000 LC79-ish that could get me sent to jail.
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Heisman Winner [135749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 91686
Joined: 12/6/98
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Mrs. had an '83 when we first met.
Aug 6, 2021, 10:19 AM
[ in reply to Have you seen the Whistin' Diesel guy try to destroy one? ] |
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No AC, no radio, crank windows, manual locks, five speed. She got hit during the big ice storm in the late 80s and smashed it up pretty good. She drove it home and it sat in the yard for almost two years. Her dad came and got it, cranked right up, and he removed the bed and put a wood flat bed on it and used it for several years for his contracting business. After he passed away it sat in mom-in-law's yard for a few years until she sold it to one of her former students that had a handyman business in York. He drove it for years and was actually at her house doing some work for her maybe around 2015ish? Pretty sure we were dropping the pup off with her to keep while we were in Texas for Willie's picnic when Mrs. saw it and mentioned that she wished she still had it.
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CU Medallion [55848]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 35354
Joined: 11/30/98
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Nope. lil'APM has a Corolla, lil'APMette has a hand-me-down
Aug 6, 2021, 9:59 AM
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Subaru and both a very good for our needs. Of course the Toyota is way more reliable than the Sube, but lil'APM has to get back & forth to college. lil'APMette's vintage Forester is basically the 2020s version of the old beater Volvo parents used to give their kids 30 years ago - slow, safe, ugly. Gets her to high school and her job and back and can handle snow, rain, etc. That's all we need.
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Oculus Spirit [81246]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56281
Joined: 9/13/04
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Maybe thats why later in life, when they get a nice car
Aug 6, 2021, 10:13 AM
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that actually has some speed available to use, still drive as if the car has only two speeds: Stop, and Wide open throttle full speed ahead?
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All-In [46871]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30767
Joined: 8/11/15
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What the hell is wrong with you? Buy you a nice newish
Aug 6, 2021, 10:21 AM
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2006 chevy #### box and give your girl the hand me down Pruis you're driving now.
And do I have a deal for you!
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CU Medallion [73569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78044
Joined: 11/30/98
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never owned an American car til
Aug 6, 2021, 10:32 AM
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our daughter wanted a Jeep.
I agree tho, American cars overall have sucked
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Hall of Famer [21594]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13926
Joined: 9/7/02
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Toyota is the only buy.***
Aug 6, 2021, 1:09 PM
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Oculus Spirit [94210]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95502
Joined: 12/25/09
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Japan doesn't make the cars and trucks they did 20 yrs ago.
Aug 6, 2021, 8:48 PM
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Japanese, Korean, US are all about equal and suck, IMO. Even the germans are ruining their cars. Call an uber.
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Lot o points [156090]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65907
Joined: 5/6/13
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