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All-TigerNet [11166]
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Remember many months ago when the approved misinformation
Feb 8, 2022, 1:24 PM
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was that there was no natural immunity, but if there was some, it was weaker and had a shorter term than vaccine immunity? At that time, I said the experts are going around pretending that they know exactly how the immune system works but in reality they don't.
The response by the usual suspects was typical. "*snort* OMG! I didn't know there were still people who don't believe germ theory! *snort*"
Surprise....
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All-In [26917]
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I thought that if you avoided bat soup, you would be ok***
Feb 8, 2022, 1:34 PM
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Remember many months ago when the approved misinformation
Feb 8, 2022, 1:48 PM
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Natural immunity is a crock because unfinished told me so!
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All-TigerNet [12358]
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Natural immunity you say??
Feb 8, 2022, 3:09 PM
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It's just the way humans were able to survive diseases for over a millennium before Dr. Fauci invented "science"....
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Natural immunity you say??
Feb 8, 2022, 3:19 PM
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This has to be one of my all time favorite posts. Perfect description !!
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Oculus Spirit [98796]
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Funny you should mention.....
Feb 8, 2022, 3:35 PM
[ in reply to Natural immunity you say?? ] |
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for at least 10,000+ years, average human life expectancy was around 28yo.
Looks like someone there invented science or something. It's hard to spot on the chart. Fauci is pretty old you know....
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Oculus Spirit [79828]
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Fauci would have been ridiculing anyone questioning self
Feb 8, 2022, 3:50 PM
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flagellation as a remedy for the black plague, and burning any books that promoted the idea of sanitation and elimination of rats as a solution.
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Oculus Spirit [98796]
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Who knows.
Feb 8, 2022, 4:30 PM
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He's probably say something stupid like the Earth orbits the Sun.
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Oculus Spirit [79828]
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Oh we know, if you didn't put fresh herbs in the beak
Feb 8, 2022, 4:42 PM
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of your plague mask you'd be a conspiracy theorist wanting to kill grandma!
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Oculus Spirit [98796]
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Some things never change.
Feb 8, 2022, 4:45 PM
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His story is fascinating.
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CU Medallion [73570]
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Oculus Spirit [98796]
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If infection provided lasting immunity
Feb 8, 2022, 3:22 PM
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This would be over. 2,900 Americans wouldn't have died yesterday. It's been two years. My son would not have gotten it twice in the past month. My Sister in law, brother in law, niece, nephew, mother in law, and father in law, and uncle, ME, and...anyway, we wouldn't have had it twice. Have a cousin who has had it three times. Some had a milder second illness, some a worse one. Some are vaxxed, others unvaxxed with natural immunity.
Here's some science......You're taking assumptions and applying them to something where assumptions don't apply. Antibodies are not our first line of immune defense. Technically they're the last line. They help you kill the virus and not die once your immune system KNOWS you're infected. INTERFERONS, though, are dysregulated with ALL variants of covid, more each variant (until Omicron, the first to show less dysregulation). Without interferons responding to a viral infection, if they are suppressed for some reason, your body doesn't KNOW to use antibodies to attack the virus. The blocking of Type 1 interferons is why vaccines don't stop the virus. Prior infections, don't stop the virus. Both help you clear it, and have a mild or severe case, or die, but they don't stop it. Add to that other mutations in the spike evading existing and prior antibodies making them less effective, and omicron could have been a HECK of a lot worse if it impacted interferons as much as Delta. Roughly twice as deadly. Instead, it's half as deadly, but infecting 300-400% more people, so it's a wash.
Kids also have higher levels of interferons, and they decline as we age. They are our very first line of immune defense. The first line of our immune system's protection, before vaccines, before vaccine induced antibodies, before natural antibodies, and even before B and T cell response. They're the VERY front line ahead of all other things, so they're kinda important. All the antibodies in the world don't matter if you don't know you're infected and to use them. They're called in too late with covid. If they're perfect antibodies, you may have no symptoms at all. But you're still infected, and can still transmit it, that's key. As they wane, your chances of a symptomatic reinfection increase.
Side note - HIV also dysregulates interferon and T cell responses similar to covid. They use different mechanisms but accomplish much the same thing though. India saw a spike in many of the same opportunistic infections associated previously with HIV and AIDS, among recovered covid patients. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8381864/)
I'll start with a very early study. Lasting immunity was (likely) dead starting in ....April of 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.19.20068015v1Impaired type I interferon activity and exacerbated inflammatory responses in severe Covid-19 patients Background Coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) is a major global threat that has already caused more than 100,000 deaths worldwide. It is characterized by distinct patterns of disease progression implying a diverse host immune response. However, the immunological features and molecular mechanisms involved in Covid-19 severity remain so far poorly known.
Methods We performed an integrated immune analysis that included in-depth phenotypical profiling of immune cells, whole-blood transcriptomic and cytokine quantification on a cohort of fifty Covid19 patients with a spectrum of disease severity. All patient were tested 8 to 12 days following first symptoms and in absence of anti-inflammatory therapy.
Results A unique phenotype in severe and critically ill patients was identified. It consists in a profoundly impaired interferon (IFN) type I response characterized by a low interferon production and activity, with consequent downregulation of interferon-stimulated genes. This was associated with a persistent blood virus load and an exacerbated inflammatory response that was partially driven by the transcriptional factor NF?B. It was also characterized by increased tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-? and interleukin (IL)-6 production and signaling as well as increased innate immune chemokines.
Conclusion We propose that type-I IFN deficiency in the blood is a hallmark of severe Covid-19 and could identify and define a high-risk population. Our study provides a rationale for testing IFN administration combined with adapted anti-inflammatory therapy targeting IL-6 or TNF-? in most severe patients. These data also raise concern for utilization of drugs that interfere with the IFN pathway.
### Competing Interest Statement
The authors have declared no competing interest.
### Funding Statement
This study was supported by the Fonds IMMUNOV, for Innovation in Immunopathology. The study was also supported by the Institut National de la Santé et de la Recherche Médicale (INSERM), by a government grant managed by the Agence National de la Recherche as part of the “Investment for the Future” program (ANR-10-IAHU-01), and by a grant from the Agence National de la Recherche (ANR-flash Covid19 “AIROCovid” to FRL). J.H. is a recipient of an Institut Imagine MD-PhD fellowship program supported by the Fondation Bettencourt Schueller. L.B. is supported by the EUR G.E.N.E. (reference #ANR-17-EURE-0013) program of the Université de Paris IdEx #ANR-18-IDEX-0001 funded by the French Government through its “Investments for the Future” program
### Author Declarations
All relevant ethical guidelines have been followed; any necessary IRB and/or ethics committee approvals have been obtained and details of the IRB/oversight body are included in the manuscript.
Yes
All necessary patient/participant consent has been obtained and the appropriate institutional forms have been archived.
Yes
I understand that all clinical trials and any other prospective interventional studies must be registered with an ICMJE-approved registry, such as ClinicalTrials.gov. I confirm that any such study reported in the manuscript has been registered and the trial registration ID is provided (note: if posting a prospective study registered retrospectively, please provide a statement in the trial ID field explaining why the study was not registered in advance).
Yes
I have followed all appropriate research reporting guidelines and uploaded the relevant EQUATOR Network research reporting checklist(s) and other pertinent material as supplementary files, if applicable.
Yes
All the microarray data (nanostring) are being processed for upload on GEO database. All the data published are available upon request to the corresponding author.
A more detailed study, showing essentially the same thing: https://www.cell.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0092-8674%2820%2931310-6
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-020-00840-x.epdf?sharing_token=p9586Tik_K7cnR9grHRdctRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Pz6x6NQK_2sZcK5FCsaNkFN2IDNY3y0KdtnjjcIK9_78elEcywMD_bckgPVO5R7N06YGIIl6LykHwyCA3JeMOkaSb9z8xrYs7NuMhBzslrrtcOwUG4NNvZYngA9cgAvCw%3D
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1931312821000457
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/innate-immune-response-in-children-protects-them-from-severe-covid-infection-study-suggests-41176445.html
I can go on and on here with study after study showing how antibodies don't prevent infections/transmission. They cure the disease, but don't stop it from spreading.
PS. - This isn't approved or disapproved information, or disinformation. It's OMITTED information. It's why you never see a viral load study from the CDC. It's why you never see any of this stuff from the CDC. You see it in other countries, with better public health systems. Biden is sweating right now with poll numbers and it's being reflected in the media.
PSs. - Quietly, the UK has started keeping track of reinfections. 10% of active cases right now in the UK are clinical reinfections (symptoms end, negative PCR test, then 90+ days pass - the definition in the UK).
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/britain-adds-possible-reinfections-covid-case-numbers-2022-02-01/
We will see where omicron goes. It is very different, yet again. And a prior infection provides immunity, and so does a vaccine, and so do vaccines plus an infection, but this isn't going away, and will be much like it has been for a long time, in the death column anyway.
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All-TigerNet [11166]
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Good lord
Feb 8, 2022, 11:21 PM
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That’s quite the essay. I got distracted and left this thread behind only to come back to this…..
You’re ranting against an argument that doesn’t exist. Also, all of those stats are suspect because the testing is completely unreliable.
Nothing can stop you from getting a virus. Natural immunity is many many times better (and safer) when it comes to fighting off the virus.
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Oculus Spirit [98796]
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Vaccines are natural immunity. That's how they work.
Feb 9, 2022, 10:03 AM
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It's not some freaking synthetic chemical that cures the disease. And every child with Type 1 diabetes, and most people with MS, got their affliction as a result of their "natural immunity" to a "natural virus", that screwed up their "natural" endocrine system/pancreas, or central nervous system. AIDS, a natural virus, and people die as a result of their natural immunity because of it. ALL NATURAL. And the way we treat aids now, is with natural drugs, that counter the natural progression of the natural virus, to keep our natural immunity stronger.
You probably don't want to read this either....
This is one of the most common genetic markers for MS btw. Covid also produces it.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.18.21266111v2.full.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3614662/Multiple Sclerosis and HERV-W/MSRV: A Multicentric Study We designed a large multicentric study to analyse the presence of MSRV particles in blood and CSF of a large cohort of patients and controls from different European areas. 149 MS patients and 153 neurological and healthy controls were selected from Sardinia, ...
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Oculus Spirit [98796]
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Forgot one thing.....
Feb 9, 2022, 2:50 PM
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8% of our human DNA.....is leftover DNA from viruses. Let me repeat that....8% of your DNA, mine, everyone's DNA, comes from viruses. So those who freak out about the vaccines changing our DNA, well.....
This is why covid is dangerous. We all concentrate on deaths, but what does it leave behind, what genes in our DNA does it activate/replace? What are the long-term consequences of that?
https://medium.com/medical-myths-and-models/the-human-genome-is-full-of-viruses-c18ba52ac195The Human Genome Is Full of Viruses Your body requires viruses, but viruses don’t always require a body. “The Human Genome Is Full of Viruses” is published by Ben Callif in Medical Myths and Models.
https://www.science.org/content/article/coronavirus-may-sometimes-slip-its-genetic-material-human-chromosomes-what-does-mean
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/21/e2105968118Reverse-transcribed SARS-CoV-2 RNA can integrate into the genome of cultured human cells and can be expressed in patient-derived tissues An unresolved issue of SARS-CoV-2 disease is that patients often remain positive for viral RNA as detected by PCR many weeks after the initial infection in the absence of evidence for viral replication. We show here that SARS-CoV-2 RNA can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into the genome of the infected cell and be expressed as chimeric transcripts fusing viral with cellular sequences. Importantly, such chimeric transcripts are detected in patient-derived tissues. Our data suggest that, in some patient tissues, the majority of all viral transcripts are derived from integrated sequences. Our data provide an insight into the consequence of SARS-CoV-2 infections that may help to explain why patients can continue to produce viral RNA after recovery.
All data supporting the findings of this study are available within the article and supporting information. All sequencing data generated in this study have been deposited to the Sequence Read Archive, <url=https://www.pnas.org/content/118/21/PRJNA721333 [2]: #sec-5
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Oculus Spirit [98796]
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CU Medallion [73570]
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Remember many months ago when the approved misinformation
Feb 8, 2022, 3:28 PM
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Yeah, we always knew that natural immunity was a possibility. Now morons, like Tardog, think it is forever. We know without question that isn't the case now.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Remember many months ago when the approved misinformation
Feb 8, 2022, 3:30 PM
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There’s my boy. How you doing today?
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Oculus Spirit [98796]
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CU Medallion [59279]
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All-TigerNet [13171]
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Re: Natural immunity is 27 times more effective than vaccines...
Feb 9, 2022, 9:19 AM
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Neither the vaccine nor infection with COVID completely prevents infection with COVID long term. Additionally, while it would appear that having been infected and vaxxed or vaxxed and infected offers a longer respite from the possibility of infection, that likewise does not prevent a subsequent infection.
However, natural immunity and vaccines both lessen the severity of infection and risk of death. It would appear if one knew one would not get severely ill that natural immunity would offer more protection than the vaccine. One can't know that though.
The problem I have with the political and medical leadership is their steadfast failure to first consider that this virus may well have been a result of a lab leak and from gain of function research. After labeling people who thought this was possible, as essentially medical heretics, even Fauci now accepts that a lab leak is a possibility. He still dissembles when questioned about monies going to China for gain of function research. Trust must be earned and when lost is hard to reestablish.
Masks which come in many forms are not equal. There has been a lot of misinformation re: masks. Read some of Fauci's earlier quotes re: the ineffectiveness of masks, followed by touting masks and subsequently double masks.
We are lectured on the 6 ft rule and 15 minutes of exposure, seriously is there any science to support that?
Plexiglass shields to prevent an airborne virus-really?
Now the powers that be will soon be pushing for children between 6 months and 5 yrs to be vaxxed, with the knowledge that these kids have an extraordinarily low risk of serious illness or death from COVID and the vaccine will not necessarily prevent subsequent infection. Who are we protecting?
The medical powers that be say very little about natural immunity. Natural immunity is not a be all end all, but certainly neither is the vaccine. So people in the military and elsewhere are losing their jobs over not taking a vaccine that does not afford long term protection even if they've had COVID which likewise does not provide long term protection. OK.
Unfortunately the vaccine simply does not offer long term protection from getting infected or reinfected. It however in my opinion has a role in reducing severe illness or death in those who are vulnerable.
We're not gonna vaccinate our way out of this. Vaccines certainly have a role, but so does natural immunity. The therapeutic drugs need to come on line in a big way. They are scarce.
The vast majority of deaths are in folks 75 and older. These individuals need to do everything in their power to lessen the severity of COVID which includes vaccines.
Continuing to mask kids and pushing vaccines on them just seems like doing something for the sake of doing something.
COVID is here to stay. Most people have chosen to move on. It's time we acknowledge the vaccine for what it is effective for, but also acknowledge natural immunity is real. We aren't going to crush this virus. It will ease its hold when it is ready.
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