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Hypothetical: Dabo cans Goodwin, but hires new DC from within his current staff.
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Heisman Winner [85636]
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Hypothetical: Dabo cans Goodwin, but hires new DC from within his current staff.
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Dec 28, 2024, 6:59 PM
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Do you get out the pitchforks and torches?
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Standout [222]
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Re: Hypothetical: Dabo cans Goodwin, but hires new DC from within his current staff.
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Dec 28, 2024, 7:04 PM
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I think I just hang myself!
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TigerNet Icon [152459]
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Yes, because hiring from within never works
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Dec 28, 2024, 7:07 PM
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except in the case of Tony Elliott, where Dabo won 89.4% of his games with him and 71.1% without him. But thats the only exception. Except Jeff Scott. But that’s it.
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CU Medallion [18152]
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How did it work for your boy Streeter? Or Thomas Austin? Or Lemanski Hall?
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Dec 28, 2024, 7:16 PM
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Those were also internal promotions
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Paw Warrior [4795]
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Re: How did it work for your boy Streeter? Or Thomas Austin? Or Lemanski Hall?
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Dec 28, 2024, 7:29 PM
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Unpopular opinion Streeter was a scapegoat and was making chicken salad out of chicken s h1t. All the wrs were hurt, DJ was QB, OL play was rough in pass pro.
I don't see a bunch of difference between Riley and Streeter outside of available talent level.
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CU Medallion [18152]
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He was in over his head from the start...We lost the SCU game because he took
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Dec 28, 2024, 8:38 PM
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the ball out of the RBs hands when they were averaging over 8 yards a carry...and the tings he would say in the postgame pressers was pitiful...Dabo gave him a shot because it worked with ScElliot and it ended poorly
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Solid Orange [1389]
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Re: How did it work for your boy Streeter? Or Thomas Austin? Or Lemanski Hall?
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Dec 29, 2024, 7:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: How did it work for your boy Streeter? Or Thomas Austin? Or Lemanski Hall? ] |
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Streeter is someone who has failed upward his entire career. Our QBs actively regressed under him. Even Trevor got worse the more time he spent with Streeter, and the Jags coaching staff said they had to rebuild his mechanics from the ground up. Chase Brice got significantly better after he left Clemson, as did Hunter Johnson. I'd argue Kelly Bryant's passing improved too, though he was still bad. The only QB we had under Streeter than improved was Deshaun, who had hired an outside QB coach and wouldn't work with him.
As OC, he took teams with some real talent and made it the second worst offense in the P5. Yes, we've had a lot of problems with S&C and injuries (which is something people don't talk about), but I think that's overblown. We had Shipley and Mafah healthy. Ross was healthy most of the season. Beaux Collins played all season (and is currently the top receiver for ND). Dacari was healthy all season, and he was a decent receiver (he's the #2 guy at NC State this year). Ngata played in 11 games, and he was serviceable. The only truly bad receivers we had to play that year were E.J. and Ajou Ajou. Otherwise, while the receivers weren't great (and weren't a shadow of our peak receivers), they weren't bad enough to explain our horrific numbers. The team overwhelmingly had a complete lack of basic fundamentals, which he couldn't address.
I don't think Streeter bears 100% of the blame. I think a ton of it falls on Dabo as well, as well as other cronyism hires, and obviously DJ sucked (though I still think Streeter is one of the reasons he became chicken ####). But anyone who is honest with themselves knows he had 0 ability as a coordinator. But considering you think Riley and him are similar, then I'm just guessing you don't know football.
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Associate AD [1024]
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Re: How did it work for your boy Streeter? Or Thomas Austin? Or Lemanski Hall?
Dec 29, 2024, 9:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: How did it work for your boy Streeter? Or Thomas Austin? Or Lemanski Hall? ] |
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Unpopular opinion Streeter was a scapegoat and was making chicken salad out of chicken s h1t. All the wrs were hurt, DJ was QB, OL play was rough in pass pro.
I don't see a bunch of difference between Riley and Streeter outside of available talent level.
I agree with that mostly, the only game cade played under Streeter was UNC and TN....did very well against UNC and against TN clemson had over 500 yards of offense compared to TN 350, honestly what did streeter in was clemson scored 3 points on 7 red zone drives against TN, I actually think if Clemson would have beat TN....which could of eaasily happend with better red zone play...streeter would still be coaching here. but having said all that i think the change ultimately was good for Dabo.....he needed to be forced to go out of his comfort zone and hire a big name, and get with it on the portal. as we all know one of his weaknesses is slow to change, he somehow believes he is immune from having to play by the new rules of college football just because he won in the past.....which absolutely is not true, even saban realized this before he hung it up. Dabo tied one hand behind his back for absolutely no reason other than trying to prove he was smarter than everyone else....or should i say he tied clemsons hand behind there back for no reason at all........now he's realizing the insane loyalty to DJ and some of his cord, and absolute refusal to fill holes via 2-3 portal guys a year left a big hole in recruiting and results.........he's still to proud to admit that is exactly what happend but at least he's changing....albeit slowly.
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National Champion [7583]
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Letterman [154]
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Starter [263]
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Re: How did it work for your boy Streeter? Or Thomas Austin? Or Lemanski Hall?
Dec 29, 2024, 10:26 PM
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And a qb getting better not worse.
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Head Coach [948]
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TigerNet Icon [152459]
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Thats the point
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Dec 29, 2024, 6:19 AM
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Claiming we should/should not hire someone based on them being internal, or they must have x number of years experience in a certain position, is silly. There are examples of both good and bad hires that meet those criteria. It’s an oversimplification of a problem, also known as oversimplification fallacy. I hate even typing that word given its recent overuse here.
So, to your point, internal hires have had mix results, so I’m not sure that’s the sole variable we should be focused on. Now we are critically thinking.
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Solid Orange [1389]
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Re: Thats the point
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Dec 29, 2024, 7:34 AM
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But you also have to admit your examples of successes had inherent advantages. I'm not sure it takes Andy Reid or Sonny Dykes to have a good offense when the players consist of Trevor, ETN, Higgins, Ross, Renfrow, and Rodgers. You can basically just play flag football when your players are that much better than their competition. I think it's telling that Scott flopped so hard as a coach and Elliott's offenses at UVA have shown 0 improvement. (#93 this year, #78 last year, #103 in 2022, #3 in 2021 (before he came to UVA), #47 in 2020).
But I do agree someone being an internal hire is not reason in and of itself to not consider them. You should consider everyone and choose the most qualified individual. But it's really hard to justify an internal hire because (a) most of our offensive staff are Dabo's friends/former players/family who have no coaching experience and (b) we're supposed to be an elite P5 offense who pays top 20 money for anyone. An internal hire is unlikely to ever be as qualified as an outside one, because we'd receive interest from actual coordinators, and obviously Clemson's internal hires lack that experience.
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Head Coach [948]
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Re: Thats the point
Dec 29, 2024, 10:22 PM
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Well said
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Head Coach [948]
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Re: Thats the point
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Dec 29, 2024, 8:13 PM
[ in reply to Thats the point ] |
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Fair point, I would still argue multiple recent internal hires have turned out poorly. Streeter go canned. RB development under Spiller is stagnant. Austin was a bust as an OL coach. Grisham until this season had been underperforming. Wes's defense has been on a downhill slide. What about Pearman? Isn't he the portal guru? Not all internal hires have gone as poorly. Scott/Elliott worked out well. I think the outside consensus is new perspective is needed. Experience almost always trumps raw talent. Clemson needs an experienced DC, not an experiment on an underqualified internal hire. The last 2 coordinators hired in this manner have been busts. Were they just bad candidates , or were they bad hires because they were internal hires? I can't say for sure. What i do think is hiring an internal hire with no prior experience has in recent years proven to be a poor choice.
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Ring of Honor [23659]
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Dude, we aren't even batting .500 on internal hires. What are you taking about?
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Dec 29, 2024, 10:32 PM
[ in reply to Thats the point ] |
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I like you as a poster, but man, I wish you’d use your intellect for something other than blindly defending the coaching staff. It’s like clockwork—every time, you’re in their corner until they’re fired, and then those orange-tinted posts disappear like they never happened.
My point is that you’re objectively not objective. So why should anyone with critical thinking skills bother listening to your takes?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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I agree but you're arguing with people who have always worked for someone...
Dec 30, 2024, 7:14 AM
[ in reply to Thats the point ] |
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else. The virtue and benefits of hiring by promotion are hidden from most of them because they have climbed the ladders in their lives via attrition not merit. They are those who have sat and watched others succeed while they've mostly remained dormant in their positions.
They've never had a payroll to meet and never a deadline that they set for themselves. They can't imagine being a manager or understanding that the best help are those that you train for the job. They were probably never chosen.
The entire concept is above their understanding but in this case most of the dumpers just want a scapegoat, someone to fire and suffer because their egos took a blow due to Clemson not scoring another national championship.
"...ever learning but never coming to the truth.'
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All-TigerNet [6085]
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Just saw that guess on TCI
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Dec 28, 2024, 7:08 PM
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Don’t have much faith in Mike Reed either… I think if he was “the guy”, he’d have already been more vocal about defensive contributions rather than let the dumpster fire burn.🔥
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CU Medallion [18152]
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He has done an outstanding job coaching CBs***
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Dec 28, 2024, 7:17 PM
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1st Rounder [662]
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Re: He has done an outstanding job coaching CBs***
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Dec 28, 2024, 7:20 PM
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I agree, the development our corners have each season is pretty remarkable. The NFL seems to agree as well
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Letterman [154]
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Re: He has done an outstanding job coaching CBs***
Dec 29, 2024, 10:39 AM
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He's not a CB coach, he's a LB coach's seems to explain that away
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Solid Orange [1389]
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Re: He has done an outstanding job coaching CBs***
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Dec 29, 2024, 7:35 AM
[ in reply to He has done an outstanding job coaching CBs*** ] |
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Peter Principle my dude.
He's an excellent positions coach. Doesn't mean he deserves to be DC or co-DC.
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1st Rounder [647]
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Re: Just saw that guess on TCI
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Dec 28, 2024, 7:43 PM
[ in reply to Just saw that guess on TCI ] |
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If CDS does choose to hire a DC internally I'd say give Reed a shot. He is a top flight recruiter and developer of talent. Look how he developed Wiggins into a 1st rounder and the next year makes Hampton a freshman All-American (his 1st year ever playing CB position). It's obvious other teams see something because they all want to hire him. He's more than qualified, has been loyal and represented Clemson well. He's worthy of an opportunity.
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CU Medallion [18152]
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I would have no problem with Reed getting a look, he has absolutely produced***
Dec 28, 2024, 8:40 PM
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Solid Orange [1389]
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National Champion [7284]
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Hell no*
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Dec 28, 2024, 7:34 PM
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No message
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CU Guru [1582]
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Re: Hypothetical: Dabo cans Goodwin, but hires new DC from within his current staff.
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Dec 28, 2024, 7:35 PM
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No. Next question.
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110%er [3931]
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I would not be pleased....
Dec 28, 2024, 7:35 PM
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but realistically there's nothing to be done if he took that route.
So I would cheer and see what happens.
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All-American [556]
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Re: Hypothetical: Dabo cans Goodwin, but hires new DC from within his current staff.
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Dec 28, 2024, 7:38 PM
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Don’t worry dabo will screw it up just watch. His last big hires were dough boy and Riley🤷♂️
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Game Changer [1971]
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Re: Hypothetical: Dabo cans Goodwin, but hires new DC from within his current staff.
Dec 28, 2024, 7:52 PM
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Run along tiny little ####.
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Rival Killer [2760]
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Game Changer [1732]
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Solid Orange [1335]
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Re: Hypothetical: Dabo cans Goodwin, but hires new DC from within his current staff.
Dec 28, 2024, 7:55 PM
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No choice but to go outside this staff
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Game Changer [1925]
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Re: Hypothetical: Dabo cans Goodwin, but hires new DC from within his current staff.
Dec 28, 2024, 10:57 PM
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What if he hires Karine Jean-Pierre? As long as we’re just making stuff up.
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Campus Hero [13910]
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Re: Hypothetical: Dabo cans Goodwin, but hires new DC from within his current staff.
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Dec 29, 2024, 6:34 AM
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I like it. Might as well also hire Gerard Depardieu at that point.
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Clemson Icon [24569]
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Re: Hypothetical: Dabo cans Goodwin, but hires new DC from within his current staff.
Dec 29, 2024, 10:02 AM
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Although Depardieu would make a fine DC, he has sexual assault charges pending in France at the moment. So as fine of a football mind he probably is, being a French actor and all, I don't think we go that route due to the charges.
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Game Changer [1925]
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CU Medallion [20775]
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Im fine promoting from within if that is the best option
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Dec 29, 2024, 8:25 PM
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As far as pitchforks and torches - the fans can feel free to turn them on each other.
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CU Guru [1548]
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Re: Hypothetical: Dabo cans Goodwin, but hires new DC from within his current staff.
Dec 30, 2024, 6:52 AM
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Roger that!
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [100818]
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Yes, especially if it's whammy.***
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Dec 30, 2024, 8:51 AM
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Replies: 40
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