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All-Conference [438]
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I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal?
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Mar 13, 2023, 9:24 AM
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Turned it on this morning when I was driving to an appointment. Mickey was taking calls and all of them resonated with "Gee, it stinks we didn't get in. Let's go win the NIT!" Not one caller talking about this being a disappointing season and there being a need for a change at the coaching position. I have to wonder if the TNET boards are just full of different people than WCCP callers? Or is WCCP so tied to the university that it won't allow for CBB slander?
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Heisman Winner [78804]
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Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal?
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Mar 13, 2023, 9:25 AM
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Have said we are in the NIT yet?
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Game Changer [1755]
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1. It takes a certain person with a certain amount of time to actually call in
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Mar 13, 2023, 9:29 AM
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2. Mickey in particular ran the few realistic listeners left off last year trying to prop up Streeter so hard. I imagine a lot of the people who could stomach him talking about how blameless streeter was are the same ones who see Brownell as the best Clemson can do.
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CU Guru [1501]
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Um, Streeter had 1 year and helped us improve.
Mar 13, 2023, 1:41 PM
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Streeters offense didn't fail to maximize DJ's and hence the offensive potential. Mickey was right - we couldn't get any additional water out of that stone, regardless of the OC or playcaalling.
Brandon didn't get let go because of playcalling. He got let go because Dabo was unhappy with Cade's development, and Dabo wants to start over with a new, innovative scheme.
Brad's had 13 years and the needle hasnt moved. We two top-40 finishes in 13 years.
Not a good comparison at all.
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Paw Warrior [4847]
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Re: Um, Streeter had 1 year and helped us improve.
Mar 13, 2023, 4:37 PM
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What!?! He wasn’t fired because of Cades development. Lord where you get that from? He was fired because two years in a row our offenses got stagnant. Elliot, Scott, and Streeter ran the “Clemson Offense”. Dabo was very much behind the scheme and finally realized we needed some be fresh ideas injected into the program. Recruiting offensive talent was also an issue. So he was probably hopeful by making a splash hire we might see a boost in recruiting.
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Paw Master [16128]
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I was listening when a caller called and said 13 years is...
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Mar 13, 2023, 9:31 AM
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too long and we need a change.
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Offensive Star [347]
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Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal?
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Mar 13, 2023, 9:35 AM
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It wasnt a disappointing season.
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All-Conference [438]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal?
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Mar 13, 2023, 10:01 AM
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A 23-win season under a coach in his 13th year and NOT making the NCAA tourney isn't disappointing?
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National Champion [8024]
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we finished 3rd in the ACC. So we basically have to finish
Mar 13, 2023, 2:26 PM
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2nd or 1st out of 12 to get in from here on out. I'm not expecting much out of any coach if thats the case. How long have ya'll watched Clemson college basketball? 3rd?? Should have a parade for finishing 3rd in the ACC, I don't care what year it is. I can count on one hand how many times I've ever remember seeing us meet or exceed that placement in the conference. Just saying this year is not the year to complain. Losing to the bid sux but it was pretty ridiculous not to get it.
I guess it comes down to the fact that we're not a big name in college basketball and that's why we're out. Pitt and NC State have more buy in power.
Now on to coach talk,
If you tell me we're hauling in Pitino, Kryzewski, or Calipari then i'm back in the "fire brownell" camp, lets do it. But its pretty much spinning wheels if we're thinking a new hire from college of charleston is going to take us from 3rd up to 1 or 2 spots in the ACC. I guess its worth a try but pretty sure the same peopel will be on here with pitch forks ready to oust that guy in about 2-4 years. What i'm saying is, go get a coach that knows how to win otherwise don't waste the energy.
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Paw Warrior [4847]
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Re: we finished 3rd in the ACC. So we basically have to finish
Mar 13, 2023, 4:41 PM
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What are you babbling about? All that mattered to anyone this season was making the tournament. Slice it anyway you want but that’s what the MAJORITY wanted. 15 wins or 23 wins. Just make the tournament.
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Paw Warrior [4847]
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Re: we finished 3rd in the ACC. So we basically have to finish
Mar 13, 2023, 4:41 PM
[ in reply to we finished 3rd in the ACC. So we basically have to finish ] |
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What are you babbling about? All that mattered to anyone this season was making the tournament. Slice it anyway you want but that’s what the MAJORITY wanted. 15 wins or 23 wins. Just make the tournament.
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Hall of Famer [8367]
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Clemson Sports Icon [55400]
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CU Guru [1501]
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Valley Legend [12887]
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Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal?
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Mar 13, 2023, 9:38 AM
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Maybe the callers are not as delusional as T-net posters as they realize a 23 win season is ~ a top 20 best all time season for our program.
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Game Changer [1755]
TigerPulse: 99%
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We did accomplish something
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Mar 13, 2023, 9:43 AM
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We were the only team in Quad 1,2, or 3 that lost to Louisville! The lowest ranked P6 team in the country.
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CU Guru [1501]
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We're ranked in the 60's and that's why we're not in.
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Mar 13, 2023, 1:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal? ] |
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"Top 20 best all-time season", my butt. Finishing out of the tournament (again) and in the 60's isn't top 20 for us. The 23 wins cleary have an asterisk.
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110%er [3696]
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Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal?
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Mar 13, 2023, 9:45 AM
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Has there ever been a fan base that shamelessly adjusts their expectations significantly on a game by game basis?
To start the season we sucked, and we were going to be around 10th or 11th in conference.
At the end of the season, our record was 23-10 we finished third in the ACC regular season, and advanced to the semi finals of the ACC tourney. Our highly intelligent fans that were about as wrong as you could be at the beginning of the season, are now saying our season was unsuccessful. It's unsuccessful because we lose to a few teams we were better then. Our record should have been 27-6 and anything less is a failure.
Do you realize how insane a lot of you sound? It's brownell's fault that we are not 27-6. The same people tht were so sure that we were going to have a terrible season now say we should have been 27-6.
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Hall of Famer [8367]
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Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal?
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Mar 13, 2023, 10:17 AM
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Pretty sure every real fan's expectation was to make the NCAAT. It was the AD's expectation, too.
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CU Medallion [18465]
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Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal?
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Mar 13, 2023, 10:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal? ] |
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Oh, you mean like saying if we don’t make the tourney Brad should go then backpedaling when it inevitably doesn’t happen?
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Ring of Honor [22744]
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Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal?
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Mar 13, 2023, 1:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal? ] |
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We didn't need to be 27-6 but we did need to be 24-9. I think that is the frustration, particularly after starting out 18-4 and 10-1. You could just sense the unease in the board about what might come next and sure enough, we finish 5-6 down the stretch and miss the dance.
Set all of the personal stuff aside; it was disappointing for all of us, both Brad fans and non-Brad fans alike.
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CU Guru [1501]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Ms. Keller, the Clemson fanbase has never shifted expectations.
Mar 13, 2023, 3:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal? ] |
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We pay our coach the 38th largest salary in the country.
We're not going to be in the top-40 yet again this year.
13 years, two top-40 finishes.
The expectations are exactly like Neff said. We were to have a plan to make the NCAAT this year. All Clemson want with our BB program is one that can make the tournament more than twice in 13 years. That's the only expectation, and it has never shifted.
Stop pointing you're nail-polished fingers at fans, like usual. The issue is the head coach. Period. He has EVERYTHING he needs, and the buck stops firmly with him. Nobody or nothing else is to blame for another failed season.
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National Champion [8024]
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dO you think we over or under achieved this year?
Mar 13, 2023, 9:46 AM
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based on the totality of the season? From a Clemson Basketball expectations perspective. Not from a selection committee or generalized birds eye view of college basketball perspective.
From what I've grown to know about Clemson basketball is this was one of our better seasons. The only thing we did wrong was we lost 3 stinkers. We took care of business everywhere else. But for whatever reason those 3 stinkers weighed us down immensely and this rating system is king now. It does us no good to play stinker teams.
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TigerNet Elite [69794]
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There were four stinkers !!!
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Mar 13, 2023, 10:18 AM
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Win any two of those four (should have won all four) and Clemson is likely in the NCAAT.
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National Champion [7908]
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When you repeatedly lose to “stinker teams”…
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Mar 13, 2023, 10:26 AM
[ in reply to dO you think we over or under achieved this year? ] |
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It says something about your program. After thirteen seasons with Brownell the only thing he has built here is a penchant for manic swings of inconsistency. We never know what we’re going to get with any of his teams. Despite their varying strengths and weaknesses, despite the differences in the teams we play, you can’t ever count on his teams to perform at a baseline level of proficiency. That’s why we can beat an average NC State team like a rented mule three times and still lose to some of the worst teams we play. That is the result of Brownell’s leadership, and it doesn’t change. That’s why he needs to go. It’s enough. Even at the ACC’s lowest ebb perhaps in HISTORY, he still can’t get Clemson in the dance. Haven’t we seen this movie enough times to know the sequel ain’t gonna change anything????
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TigerNet Elite [69794]
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Yet some would have you believe...
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Mar 13, 2023, 10:37 AM
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that the people who would like to see a change are the "lunatic fringe".
What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?
Lunatic fringe indeed !!!
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National Champion [8024]
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honestly, if we're finishing 3rd in our conference and
Mar 13, 2023, 2:08 PM
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we still aren't selected then do you really expect us to do better? I mean what miracle man are you thinking we're going to go hire? John Wooden is dead and I don't think Coach K is coming out of retirement for Clemson.
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Hall of Famer [9052]
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You do understand the league was historically bad right?
Mar 13, 2023, 2:12 PM
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Hence why we didnt get in despite being "3rd"
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TigerNet Elite [69794]
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Plus...
Mar 13, 2023, 2:47 PM
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Clemson only played the top tier teams in the conference once each which hurt the SOS ranking.
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TigerNet Elite [69794]
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Finishing 3rd in the conference...
Mar 13, 2023, 2:45 PM
[ in reply to honestly, if we're finishing 3rd in our conference and ] |
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would have been more than sufficient had it not been for the inconsistent play throughout the year which resulted in four really bad losses to CootU, Loyola-Chicago, Boston College, and Louisville.
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CU Guru [1501]
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Yes. 3rd is COMPLETELY meaningless w/o an NCAAT bid.
Mar 13, 2023, 4:09 PM
[ in reply to honestly, if we're finishing 3rd in our conference and ] |
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That's why we play the game.
A poor SOS and losing to some of them is what cost us. If Brad could have found a way to beat ANY one or two of Loyila, uSC, BC, and Louisville, then we're not discussing this today. But he didn't, and we are.
The NCAAT was the very clear expectation. We failed. We were in 3rd with 23 wins because the ACC is as bad or worse than it's ever been. The bad losses were 100% our fault, and they wreck 23 wins and 3rd place. Those wins and 3rd mean nothing if we dont make the NCAAT. We're stuck in the "Not Important Tournament", and that's the only context that really matters.
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Top TigerNet [32927]
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Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal?
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Mar 13, 2023, 10:13 AM
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Bear in mind that Mackey is the same guy who was constantly pumping up Streeter and telling us how "great" he was.........'nuff said.
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TigerNet Elite [69794]
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If you're content with mediocrity...
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Mar 13, 2023, 10:17 AM
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Brownell is your guy. After 13 seasons, and only three NCAAT appearances, we know exactly what we're getting. You're getting the Tommy Bowden of college basketball.
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Top TigerNet [30135]
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They talk their way around anyone who wants Brownell gone
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Mar 13, 2023, 1:51 PM
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And make people who say that feel like an idiot
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Orange Blooded [2365]
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Re: I don't listen to WCCP much, but is this normal?
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Mar 13, 2023, 2:08 PM
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I try and look at things rationally but I said Brownell should have been fired the year before we were in the running for Zion. College basketball is about one thing, the NCAA Tournament. I don't get the Brownell supporters. Either he can get the job done or he can't and in 2023 I could care less about history or the blue blood moniker. Spend the friggin money . I think Brownell is a nice guy and he obviously knows basketball but he dmn sure doesn't know Big Dance basketball. How you let your team walk into Louisville and get punked up and down the court regardless of what day it was or what they were celebrating is inexcusable. He's glad the pilots let him on the plane. I guess the one question everyone needs to ask themselves is "Is Brownell the guy to get us to the NCAA Tournament every whatever many years?". For me the answer is NO!!!
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Dynasty Maker [3459]
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23 wins and a third-place finish in the ACC
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Mar 13, 2023, 4:11 PM
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is a great season.
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CU Guru [1501]
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60's NET and no NCAAT is NOT a great season by
Mar 13, 2023, 4:14 PM
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any stretch of the imagination.
You're confusing some cool looking numbers with the fact they mean nothing when put in context.
Good season. Not good enough and definitely not "great".
Context. You need to put it in context.
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