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If we win out, UNC wins out, and NCST wins out
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Replies: 19
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Team Captain [466]
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If we win out, UNC wins out, and NCST wins out
Feb 26, 2018, 9:55 PM
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how do they break the 4 way tie for second between us, NCST, Duke, and UNC?
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Team Captain [466]
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Re: If we win out, UNC wins out, and NCST wins out
Feb 26, 2018, 9:58 PM
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Sorry i mean if UNC loses to Miami then beats Duke
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Clemson Sports Icon [59309]
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Teams inside the state of North Carolina get first dibs.***
Feb 26, 2018, 10:10 PM
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Athletic Dir [1135]
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Put those teams in a "mini-conference"
Feb 26, 2018, 10:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: If we win out, UNC wins out, and NCST wins out ] |
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You just look at the record of those teams who are all tied for the same spot against each other. For instance, Clemson would be 2-3 against the group (1-1 against NCSU and UNC, and 0-1 against Duke). UNC would be 4-2 against the group, which would give them the 2-seed.
Now that you've figured out your #2 team, you throw them out of the tie-breakers and start over. So kick out UNC, and look at three-team "mini-conference" between Duke/NCSU/Clemson. NCSU is 3-2 against those teams, Clemson is 1-2, and Duke is 1-1. So NCSU gets the three spot.
Now with UNC 2nd and NCSU 3rd, you do head-to-head between Duke & Clemson. Duke gets 4, we get 5.
I hope I got all that right...
Now, let's say it's the other way, and UNC beats Miami but loses to Duke. UNC is 3-3 against the group. Clemson is 2-3. NCSU is 3-2. Duke is 2-2. Then NCSU could end up being the 2nd seed!? Duke's 3rd. UNC and Clemson would then compare winning percentage against the #1 team (we're both 0% against UVA), then the #2 team (both 50% against NCSU), then the #3 team (UNC would be 50% against Duke, and would beat us there). We'd be 5th in that scenario too.
Basically, beating Duke would have solved a lot of problems for Clemson. There's always the conference tournament for that.
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National Champion [7254]
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Re: Put those teams in a "mini-conference"
Feb 26, 2018, 10:26 PM
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How is NC ST 3-2 against Clemson and Duke??
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Athletic Dir [1135]
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You're right; 2-1, not 3-2.
Feb 26, 2018, 11:55 PM
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It doesn't change anything, but my number was wrong.
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National Champion [7254]
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National Champion [7254]
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Re: Put those teams in a "mini-conference"
Feb 26, 2018, 10:30 PM
[ in reply to Put those teams in a "mini-conference" ] |
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If you don't throw out the teams and just take the tie breaker as the 4 teams.
UNC 4-2
ST 3-2
Clemson 2-3
Duke 1-3
Would they not just line them up that way?
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Dynasty Maker [3159]
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In that scenario....
Feb 26, 2018, 11:16 PM
[ in reply to Put those teams in a "mini-conference" ] |
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You don't start over after determining the highest seed....unless there is a tie somewhere in there.....
In a 4 way tie....
Duke would be 1-3 against the group
UNC would be 4-2 against the group
NCSU would be 3-2 against the group
Clemson would be 2-3.....
Pretty sure that leaves Duke as the 5th seed
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National Champion [7254]
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Re: In that scenario....
Feb 26, 2018, 11:19 PM
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That is what I was thinking but idk if that is how they do it or not.
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Athletic Dir [1135]
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I think I'm right on that one
Feb 26, 2018, 11:58 PM
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They don't just line up records and rank the teams in that mini-conference. Here's the actual rule. See part c: "Procedures (a) and (b) will be reapplied among those tied teams only."
(3) If three or more teams are tied in the standings, the following procedures will be used:
a. The combined record of conference games between the tied teams involved will be compiled. Ties will be broken, and seedings assigned, based on the winning percentage of the combined conference records. The higher winning percentage shall prevail, even if the number of games played against the team or group is unequal (i.e., 2-0 is better than 3-1; 1-0 is the same as 2-0; 2-0 is the same as 4-0; 2-1 is the same as 4-2; 1-0 is better than 1-1; 0-1 is the same as 0-2; 0-2 is the same as 0-4).
b. If procedure (a) fails to break the tie, then each tied team's record shall be compared to the team occupying the highest position in the final regular-season standings, continuing down through the standings until one team gains an advantage by a higher winning percentage.
c. If the tie is broken by (a) or (b) regarding one or more teams, but three or more teams remain tied, then procedures (a) and (b) will be reapplied among those tied teams only.
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Head Coach [978]
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Re: I think I'm right on that one
Feb 27, 2018, 12:12 AM
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"The combined record of conference games between the tied teams involved will be compiled. Ties will be broken, and seedings assigned, based on the winning percentage of the combined conference records."
They do take the rankings within the "mini-conference". Cmoney's scenario would be correct.
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Dynasty Maker [3159]
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Yes...if you look at rule 3a....
Feb 27, 2018, 12:17 AM
[ in reply to I think I'm right on that one ] |
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then they compile the "mini-conference" records based on winning percentage against one another....
If they still can't break a tie, then they would do what you mentioned earlier....but in the current scenario, there are no further ties to be broken.
This 4 way tie is one of the only ones we aren't completely screwed in.
I still like the more direct scenario of UNC losing tomorrow and then also losing to Duke.
Then we could win out and be top 4 regardless of what Duke or State do.
Or N.C. State losing one more is pretty direct too.
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National Champion [7254]
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Re: Yes...if you look at rule 3a....
Feb 27, 2018, 7:37 AM
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Idk what would be better. Taking a top 4 seed from Duke or UNC.
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National Champion [7254]
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Re: Yes...if you look at rule 3a....
Feb 27, 2018, 7:38 AM
[ in reply to Yes...if you look at rule 3a.... ] |
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I think I would rather have VT or St at the 5 seed than have to play UNC or Duke the second game.
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Hall of Famer [8194]
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You are correct. Once the first team is
Feb 27, 2018, 10:11 AM
[ in reply to I think I'm right on that one ] |
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Pulled out that is considered that tie being broken and restarts the process. The same procedure has been used for years. The “mini-conf” is dissolved as soon as the first team comes out and the process restarts w the remaining teams. To finish 4th- we can’t finish tied with the dukes, states, Inca, etc. I haven’t looked to see if we could finish 4th tied with State and maybe a Miami and or UL at 11 wins but that is a less likely scenario to begin with.
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Hall of Famer [8194]
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You are correct. Once the first team is
Feb 27, 2018, 10:13 AM
[ in reply to I think I'm right on that one ] |
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Pulled out that is considered that tie being broken and restarts the process. The same procedure has been used for years. The “mini-conf” is dissolved as soon as the first team comes out and the process restarts w the remaining teams. To finish 4th- we can’t finish tied with duke, state, Unc etc. I haven’t looked to see if we could finish 4th tied with State and maybe a Miami and or UL at 11 wins but that is a less likely scenario to begin with.
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National Champion [7254]
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Re: You are correct. Once the first team is
Feb 27, 2018, 10:16 AM
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Are you 100% sure of this?
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All-Conference [401]
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Does Notre Dame count as a conference game
Feb 26, 2018, 10:34 PM
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Since it is an even year?
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National Champion [7254]
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Re: Does Notre Dame count as a conference game
Feb 26, 2018, 10:35 PM
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Since this is on the football board imma guess no.
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