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110%er [8009]
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Clemson must be a great job for a basketball coach
Feb 17, 2015, 10:42 AM
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Expectations are low. You're given a pass on recruiting because Clemson is "hard to recruit to" You're given a pass because the admin at Clemson doesn't support basketball. You're given unlimited time to "build" your program. You're not judged for lack of progress.
Look, I like Brownell. I think he's a good coach. Not so much of a recruiter. But at some point the excuses from the fanbase need to stop.
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Legend [19697]
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As always with our hoops the question is
Feb 17, 2015, 10:57 AM
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what is our expectation. No coach in our history has made us relevant for more than 3-4 consecutive years. At some point you have to roll the dice and give a guy an extended look to try to really change that culture. Barnes and OP left us, and they were probably the closest to doing it. Is Brownell that guy, I don't know. But he's been playing with one hand tied behind his back since he arrived. No recruiting class his first year due to OP's late departure. No recruiting relationships in the area when he arrived. Poor tradition and facilities. And most important, never once returning his best player(s). That last thing changes the next few years. The facilities will be vastly improved. He now has recruiting relationships and recruiting has improved. We are speaking of doing something that has never been done at Clemson, building a true program where the coach sticks around. So IMO, as frustrating as nights like last night are, our situation will require more patience than most. Brownell can coach, that's a pretty good thing
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: As always with our hoops the question is
Feb 17, 2015, 11:01 AM
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And how do you explain how the team can be on fire one night and can't throw it in the ocean the next? That's not coaching. Why coaches turn grey and I am glad my job doesn't depend on performance of 18 to 22 year olds.
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Legend [19697]
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Don't see where we disagree***
Feb 17, 2015, 11:08 AM
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110%er [8009]
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Legend [19697]
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Riley and Smith are excellent recruiters
Feb 17, 2015, 11:06 AM
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with AAU ties, which is what you need these days. Riley especially, but he's in his first season
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Re: He really needs to hire some assistants with strong
Feb 17, 2015, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to He really needs to hire some assistants with strong ] |
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Probably Coach Brownell's best assistant since he'd been at Clemson, Earl Grant, left to take the HC job at College of Charleston.
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CU Medallion [58447]
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I agree with both of you.
Feb 17, 2015, 11:10 AM
[ in reply to As always with our hoops the question is ] |
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Expectations are extremely low.
Brownell is definitely getting a pass all the way around. I can't think of a single program that is serious about basketball that would not can him after this season barring NCAA tourney run.
Our situation is a little different though,, given the factors cited, and Brownell does deserve a little more time than most coaches at most schools would get. Having said that, he is getting to the point now where the honeymoon is over, and we need to see significant results pretty quickly now; if we don't make the NCAA tourney in the next 2 years, then it's time to go in another direction. waiting any longer would just be absurd, no matter what the circumstances are.
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Legend [19697]
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I would agree with that
Feb 17, 2015, 11:13 AM
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bad part about next year isno home court. But with 4 starters back including the 2 most talented players in JB and Grantham, and Holmes taking Hall's spot, we should be much better next year. The year after even better
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CU Medallion [58447]
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I hope you are right. If not we have to be ready to move
Feb 17, 2015, 11:26 AM
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in another direction. 6 years of no dance after 4 straight years of making it is about as clear of a sign as there is.
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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I think you'd struggle to find anyone who has been supportin
Feb 17, 2015, 8:50 PM
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Brownell so far to disagree with this. In exactly 2 years we should truly know if Brownell is the man for Clemson or not. I think had KJ stayed, we'd be a ranked team this year and a lock for the tourney, next year I believe we can get to it. I agree that if we aren't dancing at least once in the next two years, it's finally time. We'll have new facilities and that could hopefully help lure a new coach if needed. I personally hope Brownell succeeds.
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All-TigerNet [12547]
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And you get maid millions***
Feb 17, 2015, 11:03 AM
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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this would be an NCAA bound team, IF KJ was still here.
Feb 17, 2015, 11:06 AM
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This is not a program that can withstand having a pro-level athlete leave a year early. clemson basketball is like Wake Forest football: it's normally 2 or 3 years bringing project kids along. The reward is normally that the project kid turns out to be pretty good for the senior year. You lose that senior season and it's all over but the crying.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Clemson basketball is relatively an easy job
Feb 17, 2015, 11:18 AM
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if you finish middle of the pack, the fan base will love you. I don't think Rick Barnes finished higher than 4th, and he was loved. (especially after beating UK). Purnels highest finish was 3rd then 5th to .
Its harder to get to that middle than others. But just getting to the middle is good enough for job security.
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All-In [30593]
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Purnell had a 3 year stretch where he won more ACC games
Feb 17, 2015, 11:19 AM
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than any team not named Duke or UNC
that was pretty impressive
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Those years were a total of 28-20 in conference
Feb 17, 2015, 11:24 AM
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that tells you how down the ACC was in OPs years. 9-7, 10-6, 9-7.
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All-In [30593]
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good point***
Feb 17, 2015, 11:26 AM
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Legend [19697]
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if we can manage 2 more wins
Feb 17, 2015, 11:28 AM
[ in reply to Purnell had a 3 year stretch where he won more ACC games ] |
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BB will be .500 or better 4 of his 5 years here in the ACC. I do believe he would hold the record for .500 or better finishes with 4 if we do that. Cliff had 3 as did OP, I can't think of anyone who has had more. That's kind of impressive and really depressing at the same time
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All-In [30593]
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I think it's more impressive considering the state of the
Feb 17, 2015, 11:30 AM
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ACC now too...
I like BB. I liked OP. Heck, I'm a huge Pitino, Billy D, and OP fan, all who have the same philosophy.
BB has it tough b/c he needs to get us dancing in an ACC that OP didn't necessarily have to contend with.
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Legend [19697]
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we simply can't look at hoops like we
Feb 17, 2015, 11:42 AM
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do football or baseball where we have a tradition of winning. Our hoops history is the worst in ACC history, not even close. Best parallel I think is Duke football. They got a guy who can coach and stuck with him through lean times, and now are competitive yearly. Not elite, but good. We have to get there first before we can ever think of being elite. Our hoops requires far more patience than out football or baseball where we gave real tradition. But Brownell does need to get to the tourney one of these next 2 years. Once he does, if he doesn't bolt like Barnes or OP, I do believe he can be the guy to keep us consistently competitive. That's the first, huge step.
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All-In [30593]
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I agree with that.... good comparison to
Feb 17, 2015, 11:43 AM
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Duke football, by the way
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Legend [16158]
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Trainer [47]
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Re: It's not as impressive when you see that Seth Greenberg's VT
Feb 17, 2015, 2:00 PM
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All Brownell needs to do is go 100% against our unranked non conf schedule and we would have made the tourney a couple times. The only real difference between purnell and brownell is Purnells teams never lost to the Gardner Webb's of the world. (That and that Shaka smart guy)
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Amateur [41]
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And yet Brownell has more NCAA tournament wins?
Feb 17, 2015, 4:42 PM
[ in reply to Purnell had a 3 year stretch where he won more ACC games ] |
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He has some developing players and needs a few ore players, otherwise its obvious his system can work. We're overachieving as it is. Yes its taking a little longer than some would like, but i think the growth is coming.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Larry Shyatt managed to stay coach for 5 seasons.
Feb 17, 2015, 11:43 AM
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That should tell you about all you need to know. His teams finished 7th, 9th, 9th, 9th, and 8th in a 9 team conference and never won more than 5 league games. IIRC the 98-99 team only finished 7th because some of Barnes' players were still around (McIntyre, Jamison).
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CU Guru [1598]
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I remember the day Clemson announced Brownell as coach ....
Feb 17, 2015, 5:04 PM
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... was same day Wake Forest announced that guy with the hard to spell name as their coach. I don't remember that coach's name but I do remember Wake fans being pissed that we got Brownell and they didn't.
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All-In [30593]
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they got the dood from Colorado who was underachieving there
Feb 17, 2015, 5:07 PM
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If memory serves, he was friends with their AD
that worked out real well
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CU Guru [1598]
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Yea, about three years of worked out well. LOL.***
Feb 17, 2015, 5:07 PM
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Legend [19697]
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I'm surprised Gaudio hasn't gotten
Feb 17, 2015, 8:11 PM
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another chance somewhere. He just had the misfortune of following Prosser. Gaudio was the ace recruiter there. Fired after winning a tourney game
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