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Replies: 84
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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Standout [211]
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Re: Another great video that pretty much nails it.
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Jul 2, 2025, 3:31 PM
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yeah i've never understood the claim that you can reject something you don't believe exists.
It's a strange way of thinking.
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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And I've always realized that when people say I'm rejecting God, what they
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Jul 2, 2025, 3:38 PM
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really are saying is that I am rejecting their claims about God.
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Standout [211]
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It's like they don't realize that other believers are just as fervent as they
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Jul 2, 2025, 4:00 PM
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are but don't realize they could be the one that is wrong.
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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Being wrong is not a possibility a lot of them can handle.
Jul 2, 2025, 4:58 PM
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So they try to convince themselves that they know.
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National Champion [7300]
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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I certainly reject the sick idea of a God that created everything strictly to
Jul 2, 2025, 10:02 PM
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"glorify" himself and everything, including humans, as nothing but a means to that end. I also reject the equally absurd idea of an omnipotent God who created everything knowing that all of the souls he created and supposedly loved would spend eternity in hell unless they accepted the horrific, torturous death of his son, who he sent him to suffer this horrible fate as payment for all sin 4,000 years after the first sin.
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CU Medallion [20317]
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You should write your own "Book of God" and get all to join with you
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Jul 2, 2025, 11:46 PM
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in promoting your "peaceful" views. I'm sure you would have a great following.
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Standout [211]
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Re: You should write your own "Book of God" and get all to join with you
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Jul 3, 2025, 7:48 AM
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Islam has a great following, i'm not sure number of subscribers is a good metric for truth.
Also not sure why "peaceful" is in quotes, the Bible is anything but.
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CU Medallion [20317]
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Re: You should write your own "Book of God" and get all to join with you
Jul 3, 2025, 8:53 AM
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1 - number of people following was not mentioned or indicated to be a "measure of truth.
2 - "Peaceful" is in quotes because the response was to one who does not believe in the God of the Christian Bible. To find "peace" with that God, one must find it through the Son - Jesus. Otherwise, there is NO peace with God the Father.
Also, who said the Bible was filled with nothing but peaceful writings? Haven't you learned the Bible - the world - is not all rainbows and butterflies yet?
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Standout [211]
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Re: You should write your own "Book of God" and get all to join with you
Jul 3, 2025, 9:38 AM
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1. maybe i misread the implications of "You should write your own "Book of God" and get all to join"
2. Agreed, it's not a peacful religion.
"Also, who said the Bible was filled with nothing but peaceful writings? Haven't you learned the Bible - the world - is not all rainbows and butterflies yet?"
No argument from me there. It's a very violent place full of suffering. Doesn't really match the narrative that it was created by a peaceful/loving being.
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CU Medallion [20317]
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The creation brought forth a Peaceful environment
Jul 3, 2025, 11:30 AM
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mankind ruined that. Still doing it too.
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Standout [211]
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Re: The creation brought forth a Peaceful environment
Jul 3, 2025, 11:50 AM
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Sounds like heaven won't last long either then if humans are going to be there.
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110%er [3978]
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Re: I certainly reject the sick idea of a God that created everything strictly to
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Jul 3, 2025, 5:24 AM
[ in reply to I certainly reject the sick idea of a God that created everything strictly to ] |
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You have made the "absurdity" point in a number of threads. It's pretty clear where you stand. You seem to have a belief in God, just not the Christian concept of God. You reject Christianity because you can't work out it out logically or you think of it as being unfair. Rather than trusting in God's justice, you trust in your notion of what God's justice requires. I suspect if you really contemplated your idea of "God," you'd find things there too which were beyond your understanding and ability to explain. That, or you could always just think up a "God" who only acted as you think he should.
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Standout [211]
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Re: I certainly reject the sick idea of a God that created everything strictly to
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Jul 3, 2025, 7:47 AM
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"Rather than trusting in God's justice, you trust in your notion of what God's justice requires."
I still don't think you quite understand what he's saying based on your response, Smiling Tiger® can correct me if I'm wrong, but he's seem to pretty clearly state that it's not God he's rejecting or not trusting it, as you claim, it's man's beliefs and written rules about him that he rejects.
He's very clearly stating that he doesn't think your idea of God is correct. Now, I realize that as a believer, the two are hard to separate for you God/Bible, which is fine, but if we want an honest conversation, we need to engage with what Smiling is actually saying.
I could be wrong, i'll let Smiling correct me if so.
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110%er [3978]
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Re: I certainly reject the sick idea of a God that created everything strictly to
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Jul 3, 2025, 7:55 AM
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What you might call "man's written rules" the believer calls the Word of God. Maybe that's the real disagreement. If you believe the bible are just stories and rules someone made up, of course it's easier to dismiss or question. The person who accepts it as God's revelation of Himself to us, His "rules," can be guided by trust and not troubled that God doesn't exercise sovereignty as we think He should.
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Standout [211]
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Re: I certainly reject the sick idea of a God that created everything strictly to
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Jul 3, 2025, 9:39 AM
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"What you might call "man's written rules" the believer calls the Word of God. Maybe that's the real disagreement."
Yes, that's precisely the issue here. I think you've got it now.
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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Now you're getting it!
Jul 3, 2025, 10:21 AM
[ in reply to Re: I certainly reject the sick idea of a God that created everything strictly to ] |
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There are so many logical, moral problems with what most now recognize as Christianity, I no longer accept or embrace it. I do not, and never have pretended to "know" that I am right, or that I can possibly comprehend or explain God in his entirety. All I, or any of us can do, is form an idea, or concept of God based on our own experience, thoughts, and feelings. That's all you, I, and everybody else has done or can do. I can, however, use those things to rule out some things and determine that some other things are highly unlikely, especially when there are much better, more reasonable explanations. Still, it just my opinion; nothing more.
And once again, to be perfectly clear, I do not reject God. I reject the traditional, or what some may call the fundamentalist version of Christianity:
An omnipotent God created everything knowing exactly what it included and how it would all play out. He chose to include all kinds of things he supposedly hates, and that would cause him a great deal of sadness and wrathful anger, and result in millions of souls spending eternity in hell. All of this included him killing every man, woman and child on earth in a flood except for Noah and his family and two of every animal on the planet. That was his way of dealing with something he didn't like about his creation. Strange that he was so angry or disappointed though, given that he knew from the very start it was going to come to this. The Bible reads as if he's giving the world and people in it a chance, watching to see whether or not we will follow his laws and accept his love; yet he knew from the start many/most would not, and then it's as if he's merely reacting with judgement and wrath when it plays out exactly how he knew it would.
That is a fundamental, nonsensical stumbling block that any believer must ignore or explain away in order to embrace Christianity. I can't. Then it gets worse.
This omnipotent God cannot tolerate this sin he included in his creation and can't have sinful souls with him in heaven, so when those people die on earth, their souls must spend eternity in hell. Then about 4,000 years after man was created and the first sin was created, instead of just forgiving us of our sins, he demanded payment. That payment was a blood sacrifice in the form of Jesus, his son. This showed how much God loved us. Then if we acknowledge and accept this as an act of love by God, we don't have to spend eternity in hell. Reject it and you have chosen hell. That's God's love. But it gets even better.
Instead of never allowing Satan to exist in the first place, or eliminating him instead of killing every man woman and child on earth, God continues to allow Satan, the source of all of the trouble, to exist and thrive. Then, after being kept in a bottomless pit for 1,000 years and released, he will FINALLY be defeated. In the meantime God has chosen to allow all of the evil and havoc he detests.
Again, there is so much obviously wrong with that story, I cannot and do not accept it.
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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How do you decide what to believe about God?
Jul 3, 2025, 11:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: I certainly reject the sick idea of a God that created everything strictly to ] |
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It's not about making God fit our version of morality and justice. It's about using the brains God gave us so as not to be duped and believe just any old nonsense because somebody else said "God said so, and if you don't believe it, you will go to hell!"
If millions of people over the last 2000 years believed that God was a giant midget who was a pimp in Las Vegas and organized a religion around that belief, would you not apply a little reason and common sense? If that would mean I "don't think God was exercising sovereignty as I thought he should", I'm happy to do so and will continue to do so. Again, you can't twist that into me rejecting God, as I'm just rejecting someone else's concept of God, and I would have no reason to trust any such God who didn't pass the lowest possible bar of common sense.
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CU Medallion [20317]
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Ergo...
Jul 3, 2025, 8:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: I certainly reject the sick idea of a God that created everything strictly to ] |
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if they have a "revelation" on the nature of God, from God, they should write their "Book of God" to get their truth out there.
If their "revelation" of God is based on their emotional intelligence on what God should be, be like, allow, accept or reject... then I understand why they will not publish it. Because they are simply self-serving and expect their God to be serving them as well.
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Standout [211]
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Re: Ergo...
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Jul 3, 2025, 9:41 AM
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Why is a book required? That's clearly a bias because of your current worldview.
Here's a thought, if there is a God, especially one that wants a personal relationship, it would seem like that would look more like Smiling's experience than yours. You know, by talking to us personally. The need for other flawed humans to transmit it through writings makes little sense.
I would think such a god would be more than capable of clearly telling us what he wants us to know directly. The bible looks exactly how you'd expect if it was man's interpretation being written down/transmitted. Just like Islam and Mormonism.
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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Exactly.***
Jul 3, 2025, 10:26 AM
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CU Medallion [20317]
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Well, have fun figuring it out...
Jul 3, 2025, 11:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: Ergo... ] |
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wait, you already have - right?
Hope you both have a good 4th of July weekend.
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Standout [211]
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Re: Well, have fun figuring it out...
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Jul 3, 2025, 11:50 AM
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"wait, you already have - right?"
This was ironic right? You are the one claiming it's figured out not me
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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They are totally blind to that. It would be comical if it weren't so sad.***
Jul 3, 2025, 2:08 PM
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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Standout [211]
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It's extraordinarily odd that people think ALL of the other religious writing
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Jul 3, 2025, 11:23 AM
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is exactly that but not this particular, non-univocal AND curated btw, text.
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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I understand that people desperately long for reassurance that they will
Jul 3, 2025, 11:51 AM
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not be punished for eternity and instead will go on forever in heavenly bliss. It's easy to latch onto something that provides that promise while rejecting or ignoring anything that challenges that view. I think that's exactly what happens and I understand why people do that. I just choose not to ignore or try to explain away things that don't make any sense to me. And as you have pointed out, that's not me rejecting God, that's me rejecting certain beliefs about God. Furthermore, while by no means to I claim to be "right" about God, just like those on here who disagree with me, I certainly trust my own ability to understand and evaluate these things over the opinions of others. Contrary to what others say, that does not make any of us arrogant know-it-alls who need to write a book.
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: "you could always just think up a "God" who only acted as you think he should."
Jul 4, 2025, 3:47 PM
[ in reply to "you could always just think up a "God" who only acted as you think he should." ] |
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Why are you so obsessed with The Bible and Christianity then? I can’t think of one made up book I would spend years of my life discussing and attacking. Seems odd to me you spend so much time attacking something you see as myth.
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Standout [211]
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Re: "you could always just think up a "God" who only acted as you think he should."
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Jul 4, 2025, 3:56 PM
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Imagine living near people who not only believe harry potter was literally true, but enacted laws and social constructs around it. Might you take some action regardless of your actual interest in wizardry?
Please, don’t act like this crap isn’t shoved in our faces
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: "you could always just think up a "God" who only acted as you think he should."
Jul 4, 2025, 5:57 PM
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I might oppose it in the political arena. I wouldn't engage the Potterites on dialogue about it.
That's like Muslims. I oppose them in the political arena, not on web chat about Islam.
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Standout [211]
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Re: "you could always just think up a "God" who only acted as you think he should."
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Jul 4, 2025, 6:56 PM
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You would if they infiltrated this board.
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: "you could always just think up a "God" who only acted as you think he should."
Jul 4, 2025, 11:00 PM
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They could talk about Islam all they liked. I feel no need to discuss it with them.
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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No big mystery.
Jul 4, 2025, 8:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: "you could always just think up a "God" who only acted as you think he should." ] |
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I happen to be very interested in religion and spirituality, particularly Christianity since I was raised in that faith and am surrounded by others who still practice it and talk about it all of the time. I figured a board labeled "Religion & Philosophy" was a good place to discuss it, and try to understand how others are able to ignore or explain away the obvious problems I have encountered with Christianity.
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: No big mystery.
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Jul 4, 2025, 8:34 PM
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Your object is to attempt to tear down Christianity, not learn it.
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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My object is to question things that don't make sense and try to
Jul 5, 2025, 6:11 PM
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understand how and why other people believe them. You don't like that, and try to make me the bad guy by characterizing it as me tearing down Christianity.
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Standout [211]
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Re: No big mystery.
Jul 5, 2025, 6:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: No big mystery. ] |
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The Bible does that well enough on its own.
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CU Medallion [20317]
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National Champion [7300]
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National Champion [7300]
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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I do not deny that.
Jul 3, 2025, 11:13 AM
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I grew up Southern Baptist. Sunday School, R.A.s and Wednesday night prayer meeting, vacation bible school, etc.. I am steeped in the literal, fundamentalist interpretation of scripture, and even though I reject that now, I still value the bible as a source of inspired truth and wisdom, that was written by men and contains errors and contradictions in places and is filled with opinion and myth as well.
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: I do not deny that.
Jul 4, 2025, 5:54 PM
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Ok. So you reject Christianity.
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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I reject the version I was taught and many others believe.
Jul 4, 2025, 8:32 PM
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I reject most things that don't make any sense and are filled with contradictions, especially when there are more reasonable, more likely explanations available.
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: I reject the version I was taught and many others believe.
Jul 4, 2025, 11:02 PM
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You have yet to show me these "contradictions".
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Standout [211]
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Re: I reject the version I was taught and many others believe.
Jul 4, 2025, 11:03 PM
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I showed you one
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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One of my favorites, and most obvious and undeniable is the two very
Jul 5, 2025, 6:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: I reject the version I was taught and many others believe. ] |
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different, irreconcilable geneologies of Jesus which blows literal inerrancy claims clean out of the water. Even apologist scholars disagree as to how that happened, but unless the two authors meant something other than what they actually wrote, their versions are totally contradictory. That would require negotiating with the text in an attempt to reconcile things.
There's plenty more, and I now how this works; you'll engage in speculation, acting as if it is fact, come up with ways to explain how they aren't really contradictions, and that people who claim they are just don't understand. Apologists have already done all of that for you.
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: One of my favorites, and most obvious and undeniable is the two very
Jul 5, 2025, 6:37 PM
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One genealogy is of Joseph, one of Mary. There are skips and common lineage in both.
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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Which one says the lineage goes through Mary?***
Jul 5, 2025, 9:08 PM
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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Not Luke ...
Jul 5, 2025, 9:15 PM
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Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath,....
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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Not Matthew ...
Jul 5, 2025, 9:19 PM
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Eleazar the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob, 16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.
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National Champion [7300]
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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That's not what it says. It clearly says it's through Joseph.***
Jul 5, 2025, 11:21 PM
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: More:
Jul 5, 2025, 10:16 PM
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Post some verses and I will rebut them. Not watching bunch of you tube crap.
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National Champion [7300]
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Standout [211]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 4, 2025, 4:20 PM
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Why is it problematic?
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 4, 2025, 5:52 PM
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It's not for me, but it will be for you.
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Standout [211]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
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Jul 4, 2025, 7:28 PM
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Are you going to threaten to punch me in my aura next?
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 4, 2025, 10:56 PM
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I am not threatening you at all.
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Standout [211]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 4, 2025, 11:32 PM
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Woosh
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110%er [3693]
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Standout [211]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 4, 2025, 8:47 PM
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They justify infanticide without blinking, check the other thread.
And they call it good and just
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 4, 2025, 10:58 PM
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I don't feel a need to justify the actions of God. His actions are self justifying.
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Standout [211]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 4, 2025, 11:01 PM
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and I don't think it requires explaining that killing innocent infants/animals/children is wrong. It's pretty clear to me that whomever wrote that had a moral screw loose.
"I don't feel a need to justify the actions of God. His actions are self justifying."
That is a tautology and you are perfectly allowed to think that. I simply disagree with you that the actions outlined in those verses are moral. If you aren't repulsed by them, i'm really not sure what to say about your morals tbh.
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 4, 2025, 11:05 PM
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I am not repulsed at the righteous commands of God. He determines what is good and just.
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Standout [211]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
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Jul 4, 2025, 11:11 PM
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And that it’s the scary part about religion. You aren’t repulsed by the slaughtering of innocent infants by your own admission. In fact you call it righteous and good.
Only religion can do that (or psychological issues i suppose)
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 4, 2025, 11:27 PM
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They were not innocent.
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Standout [211]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 4, 2025, 11:36 PM
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The infants and animals weren’t innocent?
###?
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 5, 2025, 12:30 PM
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No. They were not.
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Standout [211]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 5, 2025, 12:34 PM
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How so? What had they done?
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Standout [211]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
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Jul 5, 2025, 7:10 PM
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Not gonna answer this one reynolds357?
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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There is no sensible, morally acceptable answer.
Jul 5, 2025, 11:27 PM
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What warped insanity causes people to believe that infants deserve to be killed because they are not innocent? Just a sick, repulsive illness.
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National Champion [7300]
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Standout [211]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 4, 2025, 11:01 PM
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Well that doesn't exist so, not sure what to tell you.
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting
Jul 4, 2025, 11:07 PM
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I have presented The Gospel. I have met my burden.
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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I reject the idea that there is any need for a savior to save us from
Jul 4, 2025, 8:40 PM
[ in reply to You arent rejecting God, you are rejecting ] |
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spending eternity in hell. I don't think a God who loves us would include most of us spending eternity in hell in his creation, and I don't believe he would require a torturous blood sacrifice of his son before he could forgive us and not send us to burn in hell. I think most people who do believe it do so simply because that's what they were taught and they never really thought about it too much. Most of those who did give it considerable thought did so with the goal of proving it was true.
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: I reject the idea that there is any need for a savior to save us from
Jul 4, 2025, 10:59 PM
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The more I studied it, the more it made sense to me.
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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My experience was the opposite.***
Jul 5, 2025, 11:43 PM
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Orange Blooded [2280]
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110%er [3693]
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Re: Another great video that pretty much nails it.
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Jul 3, 2025, 9:14 AM
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You’ll believe in hell if you wake up there.
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Standout [211]
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"dang it, the Mormon's were right!"***
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Jul 3, 2025, 9:42 AM
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Orange Immortal [66072]
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And at that point, I would know that's exactly what God wanted all along,
Jul 3, 2025, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Another great video that pretty much nails it. ] |
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since he knew from the start I would wind up in hell. I still wouldn't understand why he would want that if he loved me, or believe in any way it was just.
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National Champion [7300]
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Re: And at that point, I would know that's exactly what God wanted all along,
Jul 4, 2025, 11:08 PM
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You have probably said that 10,000 times.
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Standout [211]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Re: And at that point, I would know that's exactly what God wanted all along,
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Jul 5, 2025, 7:10 PM
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how many times have you said "god can do what he wants", even if it's murdering children?
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