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I just logged in for the first time in a long time
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Replies: 148  

I just logged in for the first time in a long time

emoji_events [29]
Mar 27, 2022, 1:55 PM

and it is obvious to me that many of you are missing the most important part of Graham Neff’s letter about basketball. He talked about aggressive investment:

“I have an ambitious vision for Clemson basketball - both the men’s and women’s programs - and what we can accomplish in the Atlantic Coast Conference and nationally. This is Clemson, and basketball is very important for our university and athletics department. Aggressive investment must be present to achieve such intentions.” (emphasis mine)

He understands that we currently fund our basketball program at a low level relative to the rest of the ACC, as well as to many other schools in the southeast. This has to change if we want to be consistently successful.

Look around at college basketball, and you’ll see very few college basketball programs that have the kind of sustained success that we want to have. And those schools invest way more in basketball than we do.

Some of you like to whine about basketball not being better, and bash Brownell and the program, but you also want to make sure that the football program has the highest budget in the country and the nicest facilities in college football. If we want a better basketball program that has the consistency you desire, we might have to make some tough choices when it comes to football. This isn’t to say that we can’t have amazing football facilities or hire the best coaches, but it might mean giving the basketball program the improved weight room it needs before football gets the barber shop in the football building. Otherwise, you’re wanting to have your cake and eat it too, and that’s not realistic.

Of course, finding additional funding which can be applied to basketball is another option. I’m sure Neff is looking into that.

The point is that it makes sense to give our basketball program every advantage in order to be successful. We are currently not doing that. By supporting the program better, we give our current coaching staff the tools they need to win more. I believe they will. And if they don’t, we are in a much better position to attract another coach if we find ourselves looking for one.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

emoji_events [9]
Mar 27, 2022, 1:58 PM



2022 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

I for one am glad you are stopping. You are one of the most ignorant posters ever. You obviously think very highly of your own opinion, unlike the rest of us - RockHillTiger


Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

emoji_events [7]
Mar 27, 2022, 1:59 PM

Total BS. We are not at a low level compared to the rest of the ACC. On top of that, you are the 39th highest paid coach in the nation, And finished with a net rating of 82 in year 12! that’s pure coaching. That’s on you.

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Do I need to post basketball expenditures for each ACC program again?

[2]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:02 PM

Perhaps you missed that post a few months ago, or you conveniently ignored it because it doesn’t jive with your ridiculous claim that we support basketball great at Clemson and are merely victims of bad coaching.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Where is Yahoo Falls, Judge?

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:21 PM

And how come it took you so long to posts again? Lost to Syracuse and that was it...

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What is Yahoo Falls?***

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:22 PM



2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: What is Yahoo Falls?***

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 6:07 PM




And what did you think of the Nick Honor transfer? Who is going to be the back up PG? Who else is transfering?

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You really are a child.


Mar 27, 2022, 6:16 PM

You zero self-awareness.

2022 purple level member flag link

Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

emoji_events [9]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:01 PM

Welcome back.

2022 orange level member flag link

Thank you!***

[2]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:16 PM



2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

emoji_events [7]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:04 PM

”Otherwise, you’re wanting to have your cake and eat it too, and that’s not realistic.”

If it comes down to you can have great football or great basketball, but not both, it’s Football all day long. That’s what bothers you, not that it matters.

Plus, logging in with your scoks counts as “logging in,” so no, not a long time.

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link


It doesn’t have to be either-or.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:05 PM

But it does need to be a compromise at times between football and basketball if we want to be consistently good at both.

This isn’t hard to understand.

I don’t have any other usernames here. Sorry to disappoint you and one of your many conspiracy theories.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: It doesn’t have to be either-or.


Mar 27, 2022, 9:27 PM

You can’t have your cake and it it too.
But it’s not either-or.
Got it.

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I’m amazed that you don’t grasp these concepts.***


Mar 27, 2022, 10:17 PM



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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

emoji_events [5]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:05 PM

Don’t agree, but welcome back… we missed you.

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Ohhh he’s been here.***

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:53 PM



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Re: Ohhh he’s been here.***

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:55 PM

Yeah, want to see you and Yahoo Falls at the same time...lol

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No I haven’t.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:17 PM

Just because you have multiple scoks doesn’t mean that everyone else does.

I don’t have any other usernames here.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


What are mine?***


Mar 27, 2022, 4:51 PM



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Thank you.***


Mar 27, 2022, 4:16 PM



2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Thank you.***

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:26 PM

My only real disagreement is that it’s an either or scenario for football and basketball funding. I read what Neff said as more of adding more fundraising efforts and basketball specific funding, not pulling from the football pool. If we don’t fire Brad that’s just more funds we can use to build the program. I don’t know the solution, I have said to my family the last couple years that going after the best recruiter (assistant) in the country and paying him whatever he needs to come here is what Brad needs to succeed. Recruiting just isn’t his strength, more funding and buy the best guy, similar to getting Venables.

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Good point about getting a basketball version of Venables.

[3]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:32 PM

We wouldn’t have had the success we have in football if Dabo had been expected to continue with a low budget for assistants.

Can you imagine Clemson football paying its assistants less than the national average?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


LOL.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 5:04 PM

I think you know the answer to this one.

Hopefully I don’t need to explain it again.

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Re: Good point about getting a basketball version of Venables.


Mar 27, 2022, 5:37 PM

I agree. Dabo is a master fundraiser, I’ve heard Brad is also really good. I hope David Hood asks Neff where the funds for the investment he is talking about will come from (he had a post where he is interviewing both him and Brad).

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Re: Good point about getting a basketball version of Venables.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 9:08 PM

We don't always agree, but I've said for years that we need more money for better assistants. Invest wisely.

Welcome back.

2022 purple level member flag link

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

emoji_events [5]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:06 PM

Welcome back. You make some good points. Neff has laid his vision out. In your analysis I hope you picked up on his subtle warning to coach Brownell. He basically said make the tournament next year or your out. How do you feel about that expectation all things considered? Neff is a smart man. He didn’t become the AD of a major National Championship winning college for nothing. He knows the boosters and fans are ready for change. If Brad can magically do that next year great if not (which he’s already proven he can’t) then it’s time to go.

2022 white level member flag link

I didn’t read his letter exactly that way.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:15 PM

I don’t think Brad necessarily has to make the tournament next year to keep his job, but he would be on very thin ice in that scenario.

I’m glad Neff said what he did. Our fans needed to hear that the administration cares about basketball. The reality is that the administration knows that it isn’t realistic to expect a team in the top third of the conference on a yearly basis without better funding and support. That’s why I was so glad to see that the desire for more success is also going to be accompanied by better support.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I didn’t read his letter exactly that way.


Mar 27, 2022, 4:39 PM


I don’t think Brad necessarily has to make the tournament next year to keep his job, but he would be on very thin ice in that scenario.

I’m glad Neff said what he did. Our fans needed to hear that the administration cares about basketball. The reality is that the administration knows that it isn’t realistic to expect a team in the top third of the conference on a yearly basis without better funding and support. That’s why I was so glad to see that the desire for more success is also going to be accompanied by better support.



I don’t think Brad necessarily has to make the tournament next year to keep his job, but he would be on very thin ice in that scenario.

I’m glad Neff said what he did. Our fans needed to hear that the administration cares about basketball. The reality is that the administration knows that it isn’t realistic to expect a team in the top third of the conference on a yearly basis without better funding and support. That’s why I was so glad to see that the desire for more success is also going to be accompanied by better support.


You don't?

Well, that would be just 3 NCAATs in 13 years? He would be the only power coach who could get away with that?
So what would get him fired next season?

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The season will be viewed in proper context.

[4]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:54 PM

If we have half the team out with injuries and miss the tournament, I don’t think Brad would be fired in that scenario.

Barring something like that, I think Brad needs to make the tournament next year to keep his job. And I think that’s a very reasonable expectation.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: The season will be viewed in proper context.


Mar 27, 2022, 7:41 PM

The problem is -the same comment is made every year and fails to happen.

While I agree some more investment can be made - it could also be done simultaneously with the energy and charisma of a new coach to help rattle the trees. While I am probably not in the top few donors, I will say it is not a small amount. If Neff asked for an additional check while keeping BB - then I would be reluctant. If he asked for a check with a charismatic coach who put oxygen back in the room - then he would stand a better chance.

I don’t see much if any upside to keeping BB. We know what he can and cannot do (unless he is holding back the past 12 years.). If the team has a good year - we keep limping along - but is it sustainable for him? If we finish in bottom half or so of the ACC, then we have wasted another year to turn things around.

I am glad you are back - to a point. I did not like the name calling or attacks at football. How about as many of us take a pledge to keep it decent, above board, try and listen, and not stoop to name calling. I don’t need the aggravation and certainly don’t need to join in with the nastiness - which I have done at times - when I know I should not.

Here is an honest question. If BB wants to stay at Clemson, and feels like assistants, etc need more funding, why would he not offer up a $1m pay decrease to start the investment process?

You with me on trying to be more positive?

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I’m with you.


Mar 27, 2022, 10:10 PM

Also, Brad has restructured his contract in the past so that a higher budget could be spent on assistants. Despite that, we still pay our assistants less than the division I national average.

Our head coaches shouldn’t have to do that to put together a high caliber staff. Clemson needs to do better. In the meantime, this ridiculous notion that we are supposed to win big consistently is ludicrous.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: The season will be viewed in proper context.


Mar 27, 2022, 10:15 PM

That was this year's mulligan. He doesn't get that twice.

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[3]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:23 PM

Agree that we need to give the program every advantage in order to be successful.

After 12 years, I personally am not sold on the idea that Brownell gives us an advantage. Is he a brilliant tactician? Is he an excellent recruiter?

I hope you’re right as Brownell will be back. Money thrown at the problem is unlikely to change the dynamic.

This is not in my opinion a problem of an outstanding coach and recruiter saddled with a cheap athletic department.

I admire your loyalty, but I am definitely not convinced that Brad Brownell is the best coach Clemson basketball can hope for.

2022 orange level member flag link

Brad needs to recruit better.

[2]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:22 PM

It is biggest weakness as a coach.

Despite not setting the world on fire with recruiting, I do believe that he gets a lot out of the talent we have. We routinely compete with teams with a lot more talent than we have. That is because he knows how to motivate, game plan, and scheme. But at some point, it comes down to Jimmys and Joes, not just Xs and Os.

This is why I have harped on funding. Our assistant coaches are paid less than the national average. Our support staff for recruiting is lacking. Facilities are good (finally), but having the right team in place to recruit to those facilities is key. A coach like Brad who isn’t the world’s best recruiter needs a really good staff around him to recruit. This is part of what Neff recognizes and is working on helping Brad with.

Don’t be surprised if you see some changes in line with this.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Brad needs to recruit better.

[2]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:51 PM


It is biggest weakness as a coach.

Despite not setting the world on fire with recruiting, I do believe that he gets a lot out of the talent we have. We routinely compete with teams with a lot more talent than we have. That is because he knows how to motivate, game plan, and scheme. But at some point, it comes down to Jimmys and Joes, not just Xs and Os.

This is why I have harped on funding. Our assistant coaches are paid less than the national average. Our support staff for recruiting is lacking. Facilities are good (finally), but having the right team in place to recruit to those facilities is key. A coach like Brad who isn’t the world’s best recruiter needs a really good staff around him to recruit. This is part of what Neff recognizes and is working on helping Brad with.

Don’t be surprised if you see some changes in line with this.


What about the bad coaching mistakes.

Bad substitutions in the losses to UNC, and Va Tech? And a lot of other close loses since you last posted?

Did you see how Brad handled the end of acct loss to Va Tech?

Terrible...

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He isn’t perfect and he isn’t blameless.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:57 PM

That still doesn’t excuse Clemson’s subpar support for basketball.

For the record, I don’t think he did anything wrong against VT. The timeout was appropriate to set our defense. He told our guys during the timeout, no threes. Dawes didn’t get up on the shooter. That wasn’t because of poor coaching. It was a lapse in judgment.

You absolutely don’t foul when you are up two in that situation.

We can Monday morning quarterback all day. If you’re going to bash him for a substitution against UNC you disagree with, you should also give him credit for putting his team in position to beat one of the best basketball programs in the country.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: He isn’t perfect and he isn’t blameless.


Mar 27, 2022, 9:14 PM

Dawes was too short to defend the taller guard in that situation and because he was scared to make a foul he chose to play no defense. That mentality causes us to lose most close games. How would coach K have handled that last 6.7 seconds. Not the same I can tell you that.

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Re: He isn’t perfect and he isn’t blameless.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 10:35 PM

Good point. If we made that buzzer shot against dook in Cameron it would have been so sweet. That was a complete game by the players and coaches. But we lost ??

2022 white level member flag link

You're wrong there . .


Mar 28, 2022, 1:49 AM

from a coaching view point . with only seconds left you let the time go. The offense has to react just as quickly. Don't give them a chance o set up anything. You practice time and situation all the time . .right? My team did.

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Re: Brad needs to recruit better.


Mar 27, 2022, 7:47 PM

It seems to me his recruiting weakness is finding low stars that have athletic potential. Other than the blue bloods, teams are made up of 2 or 3 stars who developed. Aka like a Larry Nance who grew 6 inches. Or Marvin key (could not shoot but could jump out of the gym). For instance like St. Peter’s, there was a player or 2 on that team that would have been good for us, but probably none had high stars.

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

emoji_events [5]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:26 PM



2022 purple level member flag link

Glad you’re back. I generally agree with you re:

emoji_events [7]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:29 PM

The state of our program. In addition to needed increases in the BBall budget, we need a brand of ball or a personality that can get folks excited. Yes, winning gets folks excited, but an immediate increase in the level of enthusiasm around the program is badly needed. Some creativity is also needed to get fans in LJ.

I am a season ticket holder, and have been for a while. I live in greenville (on the Clemson side), so I can be there in 45 minutes. But I rarely go as the “game day experience” is lacking - this includes the style of play, the venue, and the sideshows. Even the cup-stacking Asian lady doesn’t quite get it done any more. I struggle to give the tickets away - no one wants to go. They typically go to my daughter or son and their friends.

Anyway….glad to see that you’re back. I hope that next year is finally the year when we play to potential, get to the Tournament, and win a few games.

Go Tigers!

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Red Panda is awesome!***

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:36 PM



2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-25yr.jpg flag link

Lucky Johnson


Short of going to a gimmicky approach like full court pressing for 40 minutes

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:50 PM

I’m not sure how our style of play can excite the casual fan that demands to be entertained 100% of the time.

Standards for entertainment value are very different today than they were even 10-15 years ago. People have more things to potentially occupy their time and interest. Our team plays their tails off consistently. They represent Clemson well. And they typically have some big games they win. That kind of team should be easy to get behind, assuming that the fans have a base level of interest in basketball.

As for making the overall experience more interesting, I have long said that basketball is a tough sell, especially compared to a sport like football. Basketball has more games, including midweek games, and no tailgating. People go to basketball games only if they care about the actual game. A portion of the people at football games are there for the tailgating, socializing, and the general experience (which as we know is amazing). Basketball can’t compete with that.

Perhaps more interactive fan activities would help, as you stated.

Making sure the students face the TV cameras would be good. I never understood why the club seating was chosen to face the cameras, especially since many of those seats aren’t consistently filled. Our student section needs to be a marketable strength. Surely there are some creative things our students can become known for, whether it’s unique cheers, signs, going shirtless, coordinating outfits, etc.

Thank you for your longstanding support of the program. Go Tigers!

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Short of going to a gimmicky approach like full court pressing for 40 minutes

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 6:26 PM

The perimeter play needs to be a portion of the game. We have got to attack the basket with regularity. Unfortunately all we see is three passes and a three point shot most possessions.

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Re: Short of going to a gimmicky approach like full court pressing for 40 minutes


Mar 27, 2022, 10:21 PM

I agree with most of what you said there. I think Clemson fans would be on board with any style of play that actually wins. The problem is that we changed styles and got objectively worse. We've continued down that path and that has radicalized fans against his style of play.

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It...is....alive!

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:30 PM

Yep... ;)

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this?? again?

[2]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:32 PM

Clemson has put millions into Clemson basketball

Littlejohn has nice weight room

https://clemsontigers.com/littlejohn-basketball-weight-room/

2022 white level member flag link

Geville Tiger on 2021 football season, "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: this?? again?


Mar 27, 2022, 2:46 PM




Yeah, what is difference in weight room compared to Duke? Both are connected to the practice courts in their facilities. Theirs might be a little bigger, but Neff said they are adding to it...

https://dukesportsperformance.squarespace.com/the-where/kcenter

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That’s great, and many programs have put many millions more into theirs.***

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:28 PM



2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


if money mattered as much as you say.. TExas would


Mar 27, 2022, 9:09 PM

be #1 in everything

Clemson spends plenty on Basketball

2022 white level member flag link

Geville Tiger on 2021 football season, "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


So being near the bottom of the ACC is “spending plenty?”


Mar 27, 2022, 11:51 PM

Why do you believe that we spend plenty? Have you researched what we spend relative to other schools? Or is this a gut feeling kinda thing?

P.S. Clemson spends $55.9 million a year in football, versus $39.5 million a year for Texas. They spend a good bit more than we do on men’s basketball ($10.5 million a year versus $7.9 for us).

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Yes. Clemson spends enough on BSB


Mar 28, 2022, 9:33 AM

Clemson had to play catchup in both. Texas probably didn't have to. The rest of the ACC is probably catching up now.

Clemson spent 63 mil on BSB in 2015 which is about twice what they spent on FB that year.

How much did the rest of the ACC schools spend on BSB in 2015?

2022 white level member flag link

Geville Tiger on 2021 football season, "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Oh yeah? - read this...


Mar 27, 2022, 2:34 PM

https://watchstadium.com/acc-coaches-vote-duke-best-job-in-conference-unc-third-best-10-04-2018/


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Welcome back JUDGE...

[2]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:38 PM

and wanted to know if you have any of those BB sneakers in stock at your mercantile store..like the ole style that Pistol Pete Maravich use to wear when at Clemson? Size 11 please.

LOL!

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgringofhonorlightbulbbill.jpg flag link


That shows me that Clemson is the 10th best basketball job in the ACC.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 5:07 PM

That ranking was done in 2018.

Since they considered the facility upgrades part of that ranking, let’s look at our ACC finishes since then:

2016-2017: 12th
2017-2018: 3rd
2018-2019: 8th
2019-2020: 9th
2020-2021: 5th
2021-2022: 10th

Average ACC finish: 7.83

This shows that Brad overachieves.

You can do the same analysis for program expenditures, which also shows that Brad overachieves.

Yet amazingly, I see lots of people who still think he’s failing at his job.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: That shows me that Clemson is the 10th best basketball job in the ACC.


Mar 27, 2022, 5:21 PM

Did you notice the part where our facilities are ranked 6th out of 15? Only behind Louisville, UVA, Duke, UNC, and NC State. I think we can quit blaming the lack of success on facilities.

Budget / resources seem to be a legitimate issue.

And welcome back, Judge.

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I agree, our facilities are now good enough.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 5:57 PM

One could argue that our facilities need to be great to overcome our reputation as a place you go to play football, not basketball. But the facilities aren’t holding us back like they were prior to the renovation.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I agree, our facilities are now good enough.


Mar 27, 2022, 6:41 PM

Although I do wish they had just started over with a new arena and practice facility rather than renovating Littlejohn. However, that might have gone poorly if they decided to go cheap on a new arena by cutting corners.

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Overachieves? LMAO...He sucks. 12 years of sh!t basketball***


Mar 27, 2022, 9:49 PM



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Stop being a simpleton.


Mar 27, 2022, 10:11 PM

Do better.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Neff was very effective at one thing…

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 2:56 PM

He showed us something that is more boring than watching BrownL basketball:
Reading a letter full of empty corporate b.s.

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Re: Neff was very effective at one thing…

[2]
Mar 27, 2022, 3:13 PM

Brownell will be gone before any return on investments made by Neff come to fruition. Also, how about addressing your blatant lies about the attendance at that Virginia. I posted the receipts and you ran away for months. Were you embarrassed or did Brownell suspend your social media fee pending his renewal?

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It’s laughable that you think you know more than our athletic director

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 5:14 PM

about what’s best for our basketball program.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Why???

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 5:50 PM

I know what I see.

The AD sees it also, but is afraid to fire his friend.

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Re: It’s laughable that you think you know more than our athletic director


Mar 27, 2022, 10:37 PM

Bro - I retired when I was younger than our AD. Try again.

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What Amount Of Additional Revenue Can The

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 3:16 PM

Clemson Athletic expect from you for these endeavors?

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time


Mar 27, 2022, 3:36 PM

Glad to see you back judge!!

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[2]
Mar 27, 2022, 3:53 PM

Here comes the Judge ! You were missed and we still need a coach. Welcome back.

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Nope, you’ve been here the whole time and you know that,


Mar 27, 2022, 3:57 PM

but at least this personality is a lot nicer than your other!!!

The Clown needed to be fired two weeks ago and after we fall on our face again next year, it will finally happen!

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Support? Funds?? Get lost!! For good!!!!!

[2]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:23 PM

You could throw all the money in the world at Brownell and the program and NOTHING WOULD CHANGE. I can promise you that.

How the freak does your post have a 92% pulse? You must be logging in with all your other scoks and upvoting yourself like a pathetic child.

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Since you say funding and support don’t matter


Mar 27, 2022, 5:42 PM

does that mean you’re okay cutting the football budget and letting our football facilities lapse?

I don’t have any other scoks, no matter how much you and a few others seem to want me to.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


You have NEVER answered the question…


Mar 27, 2022, 5:51 PM

What do you think we need to buy with this additional money?

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Re: You have NEVER answered the question…


Mar 27, 2022, 8:26 PM

To be fair he has said staff.

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I’ve answered it plenty.


Mar 27, 2022, 10:16 PM

You just can’t accept the fact that Clemson is cheap when it comes to basketball.

We need more money for staff. We need to pay our assistants more and we also need more staff to help with recruiting and marketing.

Facilities need to be updated every few years, even if it’s just minor window dressing.

Most other ACC teams spend millions more a year on basketball than we do.

Stop blaming the coach for not giving you the unrealistic results you expect on a paltry budget.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I’ve answered it plenty.


Mar 27, 2022, 10:27 PM

I guess you could argue that we are a budget basketball program. The problem is that Brownell is always going to be viewed as a budget coach internally and externally. If we are going to try to make a run the only way to convince Clemson fans and recruits that we're serious is to find a new coach with the investment in the program.

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Its like NO ONE remembers people saying "Wait till...

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 9:51 PM

the facilities are done and see what Brad does". 10th place. Soooo impressive. Let me guess we were picked 11th so he is "overachieving" ... We look like FOOLS.

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Re: Its like NO ONE remembers people saying "Wait till...


Mar 27, 2022, 10:59 PM

You’re exactly right. I remember it well. Every time one “excuse” gets addressed, another one (or 2, or 3) pops up, but the results never change.

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welcome back...

emoji_events [5]
Mar 27, 2022, 4:34 PM



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"When I was 6 my Mother let me have a kitten. It died. Don't send prayers, a TU is better." - tugalooriver circa 2022


Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time


Mar 27, 2022, 4:43 PM

welcome back!

2022 student level member flag link

"I love this place, I've got a spot already picked out where I want 'em to put me when I die - up there on that ole hill near the stadium. I want to be there so I can hear all them people cheering my Tigers on Saturdays; then I won't have to go Heaven; I'll already be there."- Frank Howard


PS: judge..

[4]
Mar 27, 2022, 5:02 PM

Brad will never win more than 55-65% of his games due to lack of innate basketball knowledge & genius..

no matter if he recruited better taller faster players OR got a new arena sitting 40,000 screaming supportive fans.

Saying, people are normally elevated in life to their abilities..and thus Brad would not be considered for the Duke or UNC jobs if open..

no more than I would be elevated to CEO of GE Lighting Corp just b/c I knew about & sold lots of bulbs at the top level in big city Charlotte.

It is what it is and as said b/4: Brad is a greater guy & family man than he is a dynamic BB HC and if that is what we want (and have for ?12 yrs) then stay with him.

But glad the football bosses don’t feel that way and thus have hired & kept an astute leader, coach & “good” family man who produces at a 90%+ win rate!

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Re: PS: judge..


Mar 27, 2022, 5:06 PM

Actually won't win anymore than 55 percent which is above the 53 percent he is at Clemson...

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It also didn’t seem like Dabo would win more than that


Mar 27, 2022, 5:46 PM

until he got the support he needed from the administration.

It’s amazing what funding can do. Don’t discount it, especially for a program that needs it badly to overcome its significant disadvantages.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: It also didn’t seem like Dabo would win more than that

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 10:45 PM

I think it's a chicken and egg scenario. We could buy into Dabo's vision. Brad's tenure has had the opposite effect on us, we see what he's doing and are wondering why we even renovated Littlejohn if this is the return.

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 5:09 PM

Welcome back!

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 5:12 PM

Welcome back and don’t let people run you off again. Clemson is first and foremost a football school but should want to succeed in basketball and I sure hope we do going forward.

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 5:15 PM

Glad to see you back Judge. I hope you are prepared to get stoned and castrated by some on here.

2022 orange level member flag link


Thanks, they didn’t run me off. I just decided I didn’t want to spend my time here anymore.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 5:51 PM

I probably won’t post as much moving forward, but I appreciate the kind words.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Hey JK!

[3]
Mar 27, 2022, 7:47 PM

Goooood to see you back and I don’t blame you. Folks in general don’t like it when you don’t say what they believe or feel. Again, don’t blame you at all for spending less time here as there is a lot of toxicity. Just in this very thread there are little baby men TD’ing their hearts out but too chickenchit to share an opinion. Judge Keller®

2022 purple level member flag link

Thank you!!***


Mar 27, 2022, 8:00 PM



2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time


Mar 27, 2022, 5:42 PM

A couple of points:

If I did it accurately, I think in games decided by 5 points or less this year we were 4 - 8. It worries me that coaching had a lot do with the way we finish. I don't think more money would have changed that.

Also, which comes first, resources or results? I realize there is a balance there but much of the resources directed to football came after initial success. Dabo didn't start out with the resources he enjoyed lately. Football success brought in a lot of money both for the athletic department and the University's academic side. Nobody wants to throw good money after bad.

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time


Mar 27, 2022, 7:12 PM

I agree a missing ingredient is recruiting. However, Brownell is who he is. How do hire a dynamic and excellent assistant to recruit heading into year 13 on thin ice? Seems like an assistant to overcome Brad’s deficits was needed more closely aligned with the facility upgrades. Now that ship has sailed. Playing the game of contract extensions isn’t going to get it done.

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Well, he wasn’t given the budget to hire that caliber of assistant.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 9:30 PM

He recently lost an assistant to BostonCollege, because they gave him a substantial raise.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Well, he wasn’t given the budget to hire that caliber of assistant.

[1]
Mar 28, 2022, 12:00 AM

I don't know how substantial the raise was, but would say the cost of living in Boston is a good bit higher than Clemson.

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No worries...Cobbox has more than commendably filled in haha

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 5:42 PM

If that username even means anything to you.

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Nah…that one has one brain cell…


Mar 27, 2022, 6:12 PM

which is just enough to type the words “lunatic fringe” into every post that is critical of the basketball program.

At least Judge has some level of intelligence.

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That almost resonated as a compliment!

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 7:49 PM

TU for you!

Keep that energy. It’s a much better look on you.

2022 purple level member flag link

Welcome back!

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 6:21 PM

.

2022 orange level member flag link

Welcome back, and a couple of serious questions.

[2]
Mar 27, 2022, 7:10 PM

I know you've sort of addressed some of this, but it's a long thread and it's all over the place and it makes my head hurt. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you say we are behind other schools in basketball expenditures, and yes I would like to see those numbers, if you could provide them.

Also, while Littlejohn and those facillities are no longer holding us back due to recent upgrades, you say we still need other upgrades and things like support staff. What exactly is that, what exactly does that consist of, and how much will it cost? Looking for numbers here, else how do you even know what you are talking about? Can you give examples?

I guess what is baffling to me is if this is doable, that is if this is not some kind of major rework of the budget, or does not require some unobtainable influx of capital, then what the hell have we been waiting for? I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not buying it yet.

2022 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Here you go.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 7:46 PM

This was a post I made a couple of months ago on expenditures:

https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/message/in-case-you-are-curious-what-we-spend-on-basketball-at-clemson-30215453


As I’ve mentioned before, we spend less than the national average on assistant coaches. Why is that acceptable? Our fans should have a huge issue with this, but every time I mention it nobody seems to care. They just keep saying that we should be competitive in every sport at Clemson as if it’s some birthright just because we have Clemson on our uniforms.

We have gone “all in” on football. That decision was made generations ago. Since football and basketball are the only two revenue generating sports, and fund the other sports, any extra money has to come from football. This is where many of our fans start to get antsy. The idea of taking money from football is unpleasant. But honestly, does football need a slice in the football building to be successful? Does it need a mini golf course? Perhaps it was decided that we do.

My guess is that these things were decided on for football because we liked the idea of having outlandish facilities in order to recruit the best players. That has worked, but it has come as a cost to our basketball program. I’m not just referring to the football building, but simply using it as an example. In realty, Clemson has been choosing football over basketball on a fairly consistent basis for 100 years.

If Clemson folks are drawing a line in the sand and saying that football is king, football is always more important than basketball regardless of the question being asked, and basketball must always be a distant second in importance, then these ridiculous posts complaining about us “only” being a middle of the pack ACC team must stop. If there is truly a desire to see Clemson basketball excel consistently, then we have to fund it accordingly. Blaming the coach for everything when he is given a knife for a gunfight is being ignorant of how this works.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Fortunately Clemson will never have to depend on football...


Mar 27, 2022, 8:02 PM

To win in basketball or give any football money to do so.

Does auburn, Alabama, florida, Ohio state give up football money to win in basketball? No

You get those resources somewhere else. You find other avenues and Clemson can win in basketball just like those other football schools...

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Well, Auburn cheats.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 9:00 PM

Florida and Ohio State are large schools with huge alumni bases and high paying graduate/professional degree programs. They draw from larger potential fan bases, are located in larger states, and traditionally have more fertile recruiting ground. They also have way better basketball histories than we do too.

Clemson is a smaller school by comparison, and we don’t have dental, medical, or law programs. We have a poor basketball history and a reputation as a school that doesn’t support it well. This isn’t to say that we can’t be competitive at a high level in basketball, but these are challenges which must be overcome.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Okay, cool. Thanks for laying that out. For what it's worth,

[2]
Mar 27, 2022, 10:31 PM

I've said all along I'm all for spending enough to get us more competitive, and I refuse to believe that's impossible. So, the question is, and I'll throw it back to you, to get another, say 2 million or so into our basketball program, what would that do to our football program? What exactly would we lose or have to give up, and would that potentially mean us losing football games?

I have maintained that Brownell is a good coach and may have been more successful here under different circumstances, or somewhere else. However, I think he is too linked to the current perception and basketball culture at Clemson to be more successful here going forward. Even if I accept the realities of an underfunded program up to this point, and even if we get a big increase in the basketball budget, I don't see any way this program moves forward without the energy and vision that only a new coach can bring.

If it were me, I'd say spend a little less on football if that's what it takes, get creative with increasing basketball revenue, and spend some smart money on basketball, get a coach in here that can create some buzz, and let's breathe life back into Clemson basketball.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 7:15 PM

Welcome back and miss your insight into Clemson basketball ??.

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[2]
Mar 27, 2022, 7:32 PM

Glad to see you back Judge Keller!!!!

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Coaching pay

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 7:36 PM

And other investments are made after some level of success. Not before. The football coaches did not get paid well until after ACC championships.

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Please don’t act like Dabo didn’t have many advantages when he got the job.


Mar 27, 2022, 9:13 PM

Investments were also made after he was hired and before he saw success.

If best is the standard, we should give basketball every advantage we can. This notion that our coach has to win big on a small budget before we will provide proper funding is a horrible idea. Give him what he needs and wants, and if he isn’t successful, then you hire someone else. You don’t blame the coach for not winning more when he has one hand tied behind his back.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 7:37 PM

I say that we have never been relevant in BBall, and if the choice was mine to make, Clemson would remain King in FB even if it meant BBall never seen another the NCAA big dance again!!!

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Judge..we may well need more $ and better talent...

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 8:43 PM

but sorry my friend in saying the whole Truth..theses things will NOT make BB a better coach..especially in crunch time where he & team lost so many close games.

He’s a slightly above BB-minded intellect and I should know..~> the lack of it!

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgringofhonorlightbulbbill.jpg flag link


No one here thinks that paying a coach more money makes them a better coach.


Mar 27, 2022, 9:17 PM

I haven’t said Brad himself needs to be paid more.

The overall program needs a lot more money though. You are aware that we spend a lot less than most basketball programs, right?

Why do you expect us to excel on a small budget? Why do you blame the coach for not winning more, knowing that he is having to overcome such a disadvantage?

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time


Mar 27, 2022, 9:21 PM

Why are other coaches winning with equal to fewer “aggressive investments? Are they a better coach?

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Which programs spend equal or less than us and are winning with more consistency?


Mar 27, 2022, 9:36 PM

I think your list will be very short.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Which programs spend equal or less than us and are winning with more consistency?


Mar 27, 2022, 9:48 PM

Look at the present tourney! There were a lot more teams with fewer resources and fewer “aggressive investments” than Clemson! Heck, we can’t even make it to the NIT, let alone the dance!

Money has nothing to do with it. A great coach with excellent players is the key. Not more money.

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Now you’re changing the argument.


Mar 27, 2022, 10:24 PM

The complaint about Brad is that we aren’t consistently good enough. Sure, we have a good year every now and then, but we want to go dancing every year.

I’m asking which programs spend what we do or less each year on basketball, and have the kind of consistent success we want?

If it’s only about having one good year every now and then, Brad has done that. Our Sweet 16 team was one of the best we’ve ever had in our history. Last year, we beat a school record number of NCAA Tournament teams.

If you want to look at successful teams in this year’s tourney that spend less than us, please let us know what they spend and show us how consistent they have been in the last 5 years. I’ll wait.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Now you’re changing the argument.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 10:55 PM

We haven't been consistently good enough relative to his predecessor. The problem with your investment argument is that we don't believe enough in Brownell to invest more. Dabo was hired for like 800k a year as head coach, he sold his vision, we bought in, he delivered, he's now paid way more and we are even more invested.

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Brad has done better than Purnell in a tougher ACC.


Mar 27, 2022, 11:08 PM

So please spare us the Purnell comparison. Until Purnell can win an NCAA Tournament game, his name shouldn’t be mentioned in a conversation where fans are complaining about a lack of NCAA Tournament success under Brownell.

Dabo was indeed hired for cheap. As he should’ve been, because the job was a big step up for him. He also inherited a team that was preseason top 10 with multiple five star recruits, at a school that had recently completed facility upgrades, with a very good football history and a rabid fan base. The school was eager for a return to football greatness and was willing to do whatever it took.

If you’ll notice, when Dabo was forced to try to compete on a subpar budget we were not very good. It was only after he was allowed to spend more on coordinators that our program took off.

Brad was hired for cheap too. He has had to prove himself and work his way up. Clemson has rewarded him with a fair salary, but unfortunately the funding for the overall program is lacking.

Brad has a vision for Clemson basketball, but he has been encouraged to not share much publicly about specific expectations. Why? Because the administration hasn’t been willing to provide the support necessary to reach those goals. If they were providing that support, they would have allowed him to have more aggressive goals and fired him if he failed to meet those goals. But all parties involved know that the goal of making the NCAA Tournament every year isn’t realistic given Clemson’s commitment to basketball.

Brad wants to win as much as you do, I assure you. This notion that he is uninspired and doesn’t care is incorrect, not to mention unfair to him.

Again, please cite several programs that spend less than we do and have the success you want Clemson to have. I’ll wait.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Brad has done better than Purnell in a tougher ACC.

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 11:24 PM

You can try to diminish what Purnell accomplished here, but the rest of us can recognize what he was able to build. If you want to pump a 2 win run in the NCAA, it's fair enough to pump a 2 win run to the ACC championship game. Both weren't/aren't good in tournaments. I don't think Brad has proven himself to be mentioned in the same breath as Dabo. He has performed at a lower level than Purnell overall.

The difference between Brownell and Dabo is the ability to communicate a vision. If he's letting the administration stop him from expressing a vision for Clemson basketball, he's not an average basketball coach, he's an idiot. A vision for basketball helps everyone.


Message was edited by: ClemCE09®


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I’m not diminishing anything Purnell built.


Mar 28, 2022, 12:00 AM

Oliver is an outstanding program builder. He has done it multiple places. Few can do it better than he did.

But Purnell’s teams seemed to have a ceiling. He had no answer for teams with strong backcourts. He also didn’t seem to be able to adapt his schemes to NCAA tournament play.

He brought a lot of excitement to our program and that was also important.

Here is a good interview with Purnell:

https://youtu.be/fJcwvCV4lDw

He talks about Clemson starting around the 1 hour, 2 minute mark. He talks about Dayton, not Clemson, being the best supported program he coached from an administrative perspective. He asked for things at Clemson and didn’t get them. He also talked about football at Clemson being both an advantage and a disadvantage. It’s not surprising he left for DePaul and didn’t give Clemson a chance to match it.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I’m not diminishing anything Purnell built.


Mar 28, 2022, 12:06 AM

I 100% agree with everything you have there. It has been my position and I've linked that interview.

He was still better than Brownell under the sub-par support Clemson BB was getting. We need to support the program better.

There is an issue with him ghosting TDP, but there are two sides to the story. He wasn't getting the support he had even at Dayton.

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You said “Money has nothing to do with it.”

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 10:25 PM

Is that honestly what you believe?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time


Mar 27, 2022, 9:30 PM

Credit to you sir for moving the needle. Where does Clemson need to spend the money on Basketball?
I ask because I don't know, not trying to be argumentative. How does Clemson compare to other programs such as Baylor, Gonzaga, Butler, Memphis, Houston and many more on the financial front?
I see several situations at play. Clemson can find a coach who can win under the current financial situation. Clemson can decide it can't win under the current financial situation and give the program more money. If money is not available then you have to find a coach who can get it done with what there is to work with. Clemson fans aren't asking for final four appearances every year. Make the tournament every other year and occasionally make a run. I think under the current circumstances that is achievable.

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You can look up data for any team here:


Mar 27, 2022, 10:39 PM

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/


Clemson: $7.9 million
Baylor: $9.3 million
Gonzaga: $9.8 million
Houston: $7.7 million
Memphis: $11.9 million

What leads you to believe that we should expect more from Brownell based on our current investment in the program?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: You can look up data for any team here:


Mar 27, 2022, 11:29 PM

Maybe we can get a coach that would make us feel good about investing more into basketball?

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I think you have it backwards.


Mar 28, 2022, 1:12 AM

The coach shouldn’t have to get by on subpar support to somehow justify a worthwhile investment in the program.

No!

We should support the program well, giving the coach every possible advantage to succeed. Then, if he doesn’t succeed, we can know that we did all we could to support him and the program. It also provides a much better platform for hiring his successor.

Again, Clemson’s approach over the last 100+ years of basketball - the one you described - doesn’t work.

If we had asked Dabo to excel with subpar support for football, he wouldn’t have won here. Every successful coach at the high major level has the necessary support from the administration.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I think you have it backwards.

[1]
Mar 28, 2022, 1:20 AM

I think you are putting the cart before the horse with that argument. I and the majority of the fan base don't believe in Brownell's vision for Clemson basketball. I'm not even sure what that is. That's the problem. What are we tangibly not doing that we should? Yearly budget vs. yearly budget doesn't tell the story. Brad isn't saying that, he should, if he wants this program to get better. I'm not sure that he cares about Clemson Basketball beyond his salary with his commentary to this point.

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No coach in his right mind is going to confront the administration


Mar 28, 2022, 1:30 AM

and demand more money. He can ask for more money for the program (which Brad has certainly done) but when the answer is no, you don’t have much recourse.

It’s like the new basketball facilities. Brad asked for them for years. He was told no. Then he was told that we would build a new arena but he would have to raise the money. He did that, and then the plans were revised (i.e., Clemson decreased the budget) to be a renovation rather than a totally new building.

Brad has restructured his contract in the past to allow for a higher budget for assistant staff pay. We still pay our basketball assistants too little though.

That’s why Neff has it right. Yes, we want to win big at Clemson in basketball, but that requires a greater financial investment into the program. Neff gets it.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: No coach in his right mind is going to confront the administration


Mar 28, 2022, 1:39 AM

Brad hasn't been advocating for more investment in basketball, he isn't currently. I can't remember an interview when he said he wants Clemson Basketball to be great. It's very game to game in everything he says. We need a big picture vision. We also need short term, 1 year goals on the way to that. We need program momentum. I am firmly in the camp that Brad is a force in the opposite direction of all that.

As a Clemson coach you only pseudo work for the AD, you really work for us.


Message was edited by: ClemCE09®


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There isn’t anything Brad could say that would convince most of you.


Mar 28, 2022, 1:52 AM

If he said he wants to see us make the Big Dance every year and routinely make deeper runs, all while being a consistent top 5 team in the ACC, most of his detractors here would laugh and criticize. Very few would applaud him for making those statements.

Besides, Brad hasn’t said that because those goals haven’t been the administration’s goals. Brad isn’t stupid. He isn’t going to state lofty goals like that knowing that the administration isn’t prepared to support the program in order to make that happen. It would be setting himself up for failure, not to mention being a departure from what his bosses expect.

Neff is different. He shares Brad’s desire for Clemson basketball to be more successful than it has ever been.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: There isn’t anything Brad could say that would convince most of you.


Mar 28, 2022, 1:59 AM

You're right, he hasn't said that. He should be saying that and saying what he wants to get us there. Basketball is a revenue sport. We need to start acting like that's the case. Revenue sports shouldn't be differing to the administrative bureaucracy to be successful. If Brad isn't going to do that, we need someone else who can voice the actual needs of the program to the alumni.

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Re: There isn’t anything Brad could say that would convince most of you.


Mar 28, 2022, 1:21 PM

No one is buying your bs anymore

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 9:36 PM

Welcome back Judge. Finally someone who knows basketball and not crazed fans who have no idea what it takes to compete at levels they “think” Clemson is at

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Yes...FSU, VT, and Miami have invested far more than we...


Mar 27, 2022, 9:45 PM

have and have MUCH better fan support. Its definitely what sets them apart from us. Not coaching or investment. Idiot.

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You should know something.


Mar 27, 2022, 11:13 PM

Here are the yearly expenditures for men’s basketball:

Clemson $7.9 million
Miami $9.2 million
Virginia Tech $10.3 million
Florida State $10.5 million

Don’t call me an idiot when your “facts” are wrong.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: You should know something.

[1]
Mar 28, 2022, 12:01 AM

These aren’t facts. Some schools include coaches salaries in these numbers, some don’t. Some amortize facility upgrades, some don’t. You actually have no idea what any of the schools spend because these numbers are pulled from non standardized government reporting.

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Miami, Va Tech, and FSU used to be great in football, and


Mar 28, 2022, 10:58 PM

and now they’re not.

Is there a correlation with their focus on basketball and their decline in football?

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While I can get behind some of that… fact is

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 9:54 PM

BB is just not a very good recruiter period… I agree with you if we are wanting 5 MCDS all Americans and expect elite 8s every year but that’s just not the case … most Clemson basketball fans (I’d venture to say around 90+%) would be completely happy with making the tourney most years and every now and then win a couple games in a tourney … yes Clemson is a football school and that’s how it should be and always will be … I’ll answer that question it’s a hard no if Clemson football has to “give up things” in order for the basketball team … we have proven we can make the tourney in the past with less funding than now , worse facilities than we have now, and in a rougher conference… so again while I agree with some of what you say BB has had ample opportunity to get this thing going in a better direction and he’s just not a good recruiter! You CANNOT tell me that some of these kids that are at these smaller schools would not love to be at Clemson playing in the ACC.. so don’t buy it. You see it every year in the small conference tourneys and even small teams in the tourney … some of these kids don’t even get a look from us and that’s on BB and talent recognition. Why can we not get some of these kids that choose wofford, furman , or even places like Murray state or St. Peter lol can’t tell me these kids that choose these smaller schools would not rather be in the acc at Clemson .

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I agree that recruiting is Brad’s biggest obstacle.


Mar 28, 2022, 1:37 AM

I also think we must acknowledge that recruiting improved after the facility upgrades. I believe it would continue to improve if we could pay assistant coaches more.

It’s unfair to bash Brad for not recruiting a mid-major prospect that no other major college coach did either. Sure it would be great to find those players regularly, but why should our underpaid assistants be expected to find those when assistants at other programs with more resources can’t? Again, if we want to be that much better than everyone else in what we do, we should be prepared to fund it accordingly.

Do you think Wake Forest football fans should expect their coaches to routinely find diamonds in the rough that schools like Clemson couldn’t find? Of course not.

Comparing eras is hard, if not impossible, but I believe today’s ACC is tougher than it was when Purnell was here. More teams and more conference games now. We played 20 of our 31 regular season games against the ACC this year. In Purnell’s last year, only 16 of our 30 regular season games were against the ACC. Weaker ACC plus more non-conference gimmes equals easier schedule for Oliver.

Barnes faced a rough ACC slate, but the path to the NCAA Tournament was also easier. Again, only half of the games were against the ACC which left more opportunities for easy non-conference wins. Plus, mid-majors weren’t what they are now. This is partly why Rick got us into the NCAA Tournament with losing conference records. That doesn’t come close to happening today.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 10:12 PM

Nice to have another reasonable dissenting voice back. I would say most of what you say there could be enhanced with a coaching change. One of the huge issues with the program is that Brownell has lost the vast majority of the fan base at this point. I think it's a forgone conclusion that Brownell is back next year based on the letter. I don't think that's a good thing.

I think the letter is a clear ultimatum that if we don't at least make the tournament next year, we're moving on. If he does something special like win the ACC or make a second sweet 16, we can start getting behind him. The worst case scenario is sneaking into the tournament and getting bounced in the first round. We are stuck in the same purgatory we have been in the last 12 years. Not enough to fire him, not enough to believe in what he is doing.

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time


Mar 28, 2022, 11:16 PM

Absolutely agree.
IMO, there is almost nothing good that can happen next year. If BB gets his leap year team and record, then he stays on and we are in the same boat. If he does not, we have delayed a year when we could be bringing on new life to the program. And yes, I know, we will may take a step back as the new coach starts over - but in my mind worth the risk.
If the program needs some short term money - then BB can take a $1m+ salary reduction and spread it around. If it improves the program , then slowly give it back and increase the funding. Basketball head coach salaries are only really important when searching for a new one. BB has had 12+ years of great salary and not a lot to show for it. Maybe he should be paid by the win - develop fire in the belly. In my business world, many people liked to establish “stretch” goals. I evolved that for my teams. I changed it to “snap” goals. Stretch simply means doing the same things and slightly improving. Snap means blowing it up and starting over. We seem happy with leap year dances under BB. Let’s snap the targets and push for the leap year to be reversed. Go to dance 3 of 4.
As I stated to JK - i have donated a lot to Clemson during my 45 years of iptay and being a student there. Certainly not the top level giver but not something to ignore. If Neff sent me a letter asking for me to write an additional check - while keeping BB - I would probably need some serious convincing. On the other hand, if he asked with a new charismatic coach on board and there was excitement and oxygen back in the room - then I more than likely would write that additional check.

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time


Mar 27, 2022, 10:18 PM

Can we invest in more dairy products or calcium supplements for the players? I feel like a bunch of 20-year-old guys shouldn't break so easily...

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[1]
Mar 27, 2022, 11:42 PM

Judge - Happy to have you here.
Go Tigers!

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[2]
Mar 28, 2022, 7:25 AM

Welcome back Judge. I am waiting to see the investment list that Neff provides. If there are obvious items like improvements to the weight room, IPTAY members deserve an explanation. I also expect to see Brad become more visible on campus to boost excitement for basketball. I have never seen him out and about at football games. I have never heard of him getting involved with student activities. We all want Clemson basketball to be successful. I am not picking one sport over the other because I feel that Clemson can be successful in both.

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I agree with what you say, except for the part about


Mar 28, 2022, 11:45 AM

'sustained success'. That can mean different things to different people, but I don't think most people are looking for being in the ACC semis every year or even in the NCAA every year. But we are too far below that, and have been for too long, to stay on this course. Neff has to say this is acceptable or make the changes necessary to move forward, but he can't talk a game then walk down the hall to hang out with Dabo.

I think what ratcheted up the anti Brad talk this year was the sense that this team should have achieved more. The players were there, and they showed what they are in many games, but inexplicably lost games they shouldn't have. They underachieved, most people think, and the team became a symbol for an era. Is that unfair? Neff said yes, and many people don't agree with him. We'll see.

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[2]
Mar 28, 2022, 12:15 PM

Welcome back and I do value your input because it is not always the popular stance.

With that said, what would your first post look like if Neff had of fired Brownell at the end of the season? Would you have even logged back on? Would you have logged on if our baseball team wasn't making our basketball team look better in the past 7 of 9 games? Was it the perfect storm for you to make a reappearance and plead your case of the lack of resources?

While I agree with the " it takes money to make money" philosophy in life and in athletics. I also believe that Brownell hasn't done enough to rebrand the image of the basketball program and provide stability at an ROI equal to those resources. If he wants the recruits that he needs to compete with the upper echelon then you have to prove your value first. I have yet to see a person jump from entry level to CEO status of a company without proving their worth independent of pay, resources, glitz and glamor.

I do believe even ranked at #8-9 in the conference in coaching pay that we are missing the stability game to game and showing no trends in getting better after 12 years. I also realize that maybe there is more parity this year based on the results of the NCAA tournament.

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Of course I would still be here if Neff had fired Brad.


Mar 28, 2022, 10:31 PM

I’m a Clemson basketball fan first and foremost.

I came back because I missed the dialogue and opinions. Simple as that.

I don’t know what kind of ROI you expect from the basketball program, but we spend $7.9 million a year on men’s basketball and have revenue of $9.3 million. The program is making money, which helps pay for other programs on campus.

What kind of ROI are you wanting?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Welcome back Judge!***

[1]
Mar 28, 2022, 12:48 PM



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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time

[3]
Mar 28, 2022, 1:01 PM

Look at all the comment traffic you generate. TNet should pay you a commission as an influencer. LOL.

We don’t always agree on everything (and that’s ok), but you bring value/interest to this site.
Glad to see you back.

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time


Mar 28, 2022, 10:15 PM

HEY, JUDGE, where have you been?
Did you see that BB choked and lost a game to VaT?
Since you say they need more money: I just had a thought on acquiring more money for the Men's basketball program.

Clemson is paying a sub-par coach well over $2M per year. Cut his salary to $0.5M/year, and suddenly there's a lot more money for the program.

And, if BB can't live on $0.5M per year, maybe he will go job-hunting. Two birds with one stone -- a win and a win. (Yes, CU would nd to pay a winning coach more than $0.5M/year, but that be negotiated into the new coach's contract as bonuses for having a winning season and finishing in the top half of the ACC teams.)

Remember, it was just a thought...

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Re: I just logged in for the first time in a long time


Mar 28, 2022, 10:15 PM

HEY, JUDGE, where have you been?
Did you see that BB choked and lost a game to VaT?
Since you say they need more money: I just had a thought on acquiring more money for the Men's basketball program.

Clemson is paying a sub-par coach well over $2M per year. Cut his salary to $0.5M/year, and suddenly there's a lot more money for the program.

And, if BB can't live on $0.5M per year, maybe he will go job-hunting. Two birds with one stone -- a win and a win. (Yes, CU would nd to pay a winning coach more than $0.5M/year, but that be negotiated into the new coach's contract as bonuses for having a winning season and finishing in the top half of the ACC teams.)

Remember, it was just a thought...

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