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CU Guru [1512]
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To All Brownell Supporters
Feb 24, 2016, 8:57 AM
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Can you please explain to me the following which i simply do not understand: 1. Why did Hudson play 5 minutes, scorer 8 points and never see the court again? 2. Why , when our man to man was getting eaten alive, did we not go to a zone or a modified full court press to all east attempt to change the tempo of the game? 3. At the end of the first half we had the ball with some 30 seconds left and BB called timeout with approx. 25 seconds left---the correct move IMO. IF BB had communicated that no shot was to be taken to then, clearly Roper did not hear the order not to shoot until later which indicates to me that the coach does not have the discipline to tell his players what he wants done and have it executed. Period End of discussion. This failure at the end of the half gave them momentum going into the second half and set us up for exactly what happened a loss by 2 points. 4. We've lost 4 out of 6 with the losses to VTech, Tech and NC State being to lesser opponents in terms of their standings in the ACC. If you do not see this as a coaching issue please explain why this occurred?
I like BB, I believe he knows the game in a very detailed fashion but I say unequivocally that , for whatever reason, he is simple not able to pass his knowledge on to players particularly in game coaching situations. The teams that we beat during our winning streak have one thing in common and that is: With the exception of Miami ,, the rest are having down years by their standards.
I've been taken to the barn buy all the TNeters who know absolutely nothing about coaching and/or basketball so I'll, be very interested in seeing what you say about these items.
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1st Rounder [623]
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Re: To All Brownell Supporters
Feb 24, 2016, 9:00 AM
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I think you are spot on. There is very obvious pattern here. And yes, I believe the responsibility starts at the top. I haven't seen anything from BB over the years to convince me that he will be consistently effective at this level
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: To All Brownell Supporters
Feb 24, 2016, 9:06 AM
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turfman: thank you for your response. without going into detail, I coached a sport at a fairly high level and can say with any doubt that BB is a terrific guy but he will not win at this level consistently because, although he has the knowledge of the sport, he is simply not able to communicate effectively, motivate and install discipline in his team.
I like the guy and feel he is a very nice person---- perhaps a little too nice.
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All-TigerNet [10213]
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I wish I could have given you 100 points...SO FACTUAL!***
Feb 24, 2016, 9:03 AM
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I don't think a zone would've helped
Feb 24, 2016, 9:05 AM
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especially in the 2nd half when they were shooting the lights out from the outside.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: I don't think a zone would've helped
Feb 24, 2016, 9:13 AM
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I understand your point and the idea of going to a zone seems counterproductive but in reality really is not. Number 2 for GT was making shots where most of them were from a stationary position with the exception of one that comes to mind. We had hands in front of him and largely played reasonable good defense although not consistently against him. By going to a zone, he would have probably had more wide open and "freer shots". In many cases that presents a bigger problem for a shooter. That is what I meant when I said change the tempo of the game but I should have added of the shooter as well. Sorry I didn't make that very clear.
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Team Captain [459]
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So just curious... A guy that is absolutely killing it with
Feb 24, 2016, 9:31 AM
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people in his face...you want to give him wide open shots? Cause that's what he's gonna get with a zone. Sorry, but I'll take my chances with a hand in his face. Dude was on fire last night, so you tip your cap and move on.
As far as Hudson goes, I don't know why he was taken out of the game. But it could be for any number of reasons. While his scoring production per minutes played was phenomenal, there are so many other intricacies to the game that we as fans don't pay attention to. Maybe he was a liability on defense. Maybe (even though he was scoring) he was missing on screens or causing offensive sets to break down. My brother is a D-1 assistant coach and I'll ask him questions similar to this about why certain players come out during certain situations, and the answers are usually something I never thought of or never saw on the court. So I can't answer that question because I honestly don't know.
At the end of the first half, I personally don't see a whole lot wrong with what happened and here's why. Roper got into the lane and had a pretty good look at the bucket with 4-5 seconds to play. He just simply missed the shot. If he puts it in the bucket, we are up 14 points and they have to take it out, enter it and most likely wouldn't have had anything other than a half court heave. The reason I don't mind it is because of how good the look was and we are now second guessing it because hindsight is 20/20. If you were a player and you had a good look at the basket with 4-5 seconds left from about 5 feet away, would you take it? I would hope so.
Yes, those are bad losses to take. But if you're going to criticize the man for losing to those teams, you must also give him credit for beating Coach K, Larranaga, Pitino, and Jamie Dixon (and I'm pretty sure most would agree those are better coaches). To me, it has more to do with this team learning how to win on the road than it does with coaching. Coaching can only put you in a position to succeed. I would say in those three losses, we had an opportunity to win all those games. At some point, players have to make plays. We've seen Smith from GT and Rowan from NCSU go off against us. Those guys were making plays. We need players to step up and do the same. Blossomgame can't do it all. And a big key last night (and a massive one in the NCSU game) was our inability to rebound the ball at the end. When he missed the front end of that 1-and-1, you have to come up with the ball. NC State butchered us with something like 15 offensive rebounds. At some point, the players have to get the mindset of "that's my ball and no one else is getting it."
Just my $0.02.
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Orange Blooded [3427]
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Our 2-3 zone is pretty p!ss poor.
Feb 24, 2016, 9:25 AM
[ in reply to I don't think a zone would've helped ] |
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We have 2 short guards...switching to it would've made matters much worse.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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honestly, the basket at the end of the half was
Feb 24, 2016, 9:17 AM
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plus-1 for Ga Tech in terms of confidence mainly just because it didn't need to happen -
like a surprise gift if you will.
But to say that a basket that cut the lead to 9
was the one that "set us up" is just wrong regardless what Tim Bourret says.
The team is down 1 in the last minute, and Tech's shooter misses the front end of a 1-and-1
but gets his own rebound. Say what?
Being unable to consistently make fundamental plays is what kills this team.
Right now, and on the road, this team is not better than Ga Tech, FSU, NCSU, and Va Tech,
and no, it's not all, or even predominantly, "coaching".
The players don't understand why they played better earlier in the year
and now they have no confidence to win.
Ga Tech thought they were going to win because they were at home - no other reason.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: honestly, the basket at the end of the half was
Feb 24, 2016, 9:26 AM
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A few good points. Shooter gets his own rebound failure to box out. End of first half play gave GT the momentum and "confidence" that they could overcome us and they did. Big difference between down 9 and 12 particularly the way it occurred. Finally, whose responsible to get the team ready to play on the road from a psychological standpoint. Last time I checked that is a major responsibility of a head coach. road games are a fact of life and from what i've seen in the BB era we are not prepared to play in most cases. Yes, there have been a few exceptions but just that a few.
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Team Captain [459]
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You could look at any one basket throughout the game and say
Feb 24, 2016, 9:35 AM
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that though. I mean, we did increase the lead to 13 in the second half, so I'm not sure how much confidence they had at that point. That momentum didn't carry over in my opinion because we increased the lead.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: honestly, the basket at the end of the half was
Feb 24, 2016, 9:30 AM
[ in reply to honestly, the basket at the end of the half was ] |
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Forgot. Who is responsible to see that we make the fundamental plays you referenced? Who is responsible for getting a team ready to play on the road? Finally, it is inconceivable to me that a point guard can play 40 minutes and not score a single point. Agree?
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Great points Epi.......I respect James opinion, but does ...
Feb 24, 2016, 9:41 AM
[ in reply to honestly, the basket at the end of the half was ] |
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anyone really think that Brownell didn't make it clear to take the shot with the clock running out. Roper made a mistake....20 year old kids make mistakes! Blocking out the free throw shooter is also something that I am sure they are always reminded, but again kids do not always respond accordingly.....if they did we would never lose. I think Brad has done an outstanding job with the players he is able to recruit to Clemson. If you want to discuss why we can't get better players, then that is a different discussion.
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Legend [17289]
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Yes. CBB's coaching has to be questioned due to failure
Feb 24, 2016, 9:33 AM
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Of the team to execute at key junctures of games. Last night it was end of half, rebounding missed FT and bad discombobulated defense after scoring game timing three. And defensive rebounding positioning versus NCSU.
Not to mention the in bounds pass versus Bama. Ouch I mentioned it.
CBB likely knows and "coaches" better technique, but our players fail to execute at critical junctures.
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Team Captain [459]
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I feel like your first sentence and last sentence contradict
Feb 24, 2016, 9:52 AM
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each other. In the first one, you question his coaching because of failure to execute at key junctures. But then in the last sentence, you say our players fail to execute. In my opinion, coaching can only put you in a position to succeed. At that point, it's up to the players. I would say both are at fault, but at some point, your players have to make plays.
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Legend [17289]
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Accountability, maybe repetition ... or fear to not mess up
Feb 24, 2016, 11:26 AM
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Somehow our players make mistakes that you know they know better.
We do not execute fundamentals at key points in time.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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I like Brownell a lot. I think he is a great guy and
Feb 24, 2016, 9:51 AM
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a very knowledgeable basketball coach, and he has not done a bad job at Clemson given the lack of tradition, the aging facilities, and the fact that he had to completely rebuild for his style of basketball. On the other hand, his best team by far was with Purnell's players, and it has been downhill ever since. Exactly how much of that is his fault is difficult to determine, but the bottom line is this:
Clemson basketball is no closer to where it needs to be than when he got here, and in six years under his leadership the program has not moved forward one bit. One could even argue that we have gotten worse. His overall record (55.8% wins vs. 60.5%) and ACC record (48.5% vs. 44.6%) are not very different than Purnell's. His post season record is much worse.
This is all fact. In my opinion, merely making the dance next year would not be a big success, but merely the bare minimum. Making the dance would be a big deal given our history and lack of basketball tradition, especially the last few years. However, it would be a huge mistake to use that as any kind of measuring stick or baseline for expectations and goals; if we aren't going to aim any higher than that, then we need to bulldoze Littlejohn, curl up into the fetal position, and make a nice parking lot there for football.
Even though it would be perfectly understandable if Brownell was let go after the season, I don't expect it and I'm not calling for his head. I honestly hope he turns it around, BUT, if he doesn't show dramatic improvement next year, and at least make the dance, then there is no sane argument whatsoever for keeping him.
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All-In [27374]
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Re: I like Brownell a lot. I think he is a great guy and
Feb 24, 2016, 10:48 AM
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It all comes down to recruiting. The football program was mired in mediocrity for several years under a plethora of coaches then along came Dabo. He was able to lure in that one game changing player (spiller) and Clemson football has been on the rise ever since. The same can happen in basketball. The one game changing player is out there and BB needs to find him and convince him Clemson is the place for him. All this bickering by the so called fans doesn't make this task any easier for the coach and his staff. If you aren't pleased with the way things are just forget basketball and continue to support the more successful teams. Your opinions really don't matter to the athletic staff anyway. Most of you who complain the loudest support the least . BB is not going anywhere so live with it. Btw .... How is Purnell doing these days?
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Team Captain [459]
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I think you're spot on.
Feb 24, 2016, 10:56 AM
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I think BB's biggest downfall is recruiting, and he needs someone on his staff to really up the ante in this regard. I'm anxious to see what the new transfers bring to the team next year. I don't think it has as much to do with his X's and O's coaching as it does recruiting.
We need some dead-eye shooters on this team. And I think we also need some more depth down low. But I do think his players develop nicely for the most part.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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I said when Brownell was hired that his ability
Feb 24, 2016, 11:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: I like Brownell a lot. I think he is a great guy and ] |
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to recruit would make of break him. For him it's always been about recruiting, and he has consistently recruited players that aren't quite good enough (collectively) to get over the hump. I completely agree as well that one great player can turn the tide, and that is especially true in basketball. Get one or two players that can score and light it up and you can win big with good coaching and a bunch of solid role players. As for Purnell, he did a pretty crappy job once he left Clemson, and my post was not in any way a commentary on him.
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All-TigerNet [14470]
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Re: I said when Brownell was hired that his ability
Feb 24, 2016, 11:19 AM
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MAYBE THOSE GUYS SITTING ON THE BENCH IN STREET CLOTHES WILL GET HIM TO THE HUMP. HOPEFULLY OVER IT.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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I sure hope so - nothing would make me happier.
Feb 24, 2016, 12:08 PM
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If not, gotta be ready to pull the plug and move in another direction, in my humble opinion.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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We aint rebounding. It's killing us.***
Feb 24, 2016, 10:53 AM
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