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Lot o points [155977]
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Anybody see Candace Owens spitting fire yesterday?
Apr 10, 2019, 4:14 PM
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God I hope she's able to help break the nasty trend of identity politics.....
https://youtu.be/RmuFIM4meXg
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110%er [6101]
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Re: Anybody see Candace Owens spitting fire yesterday?
Apr 10, 2019, 4:26 PM
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That was awesome. Congressman took her video comments completely out of context and he she made him pay.
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Lot o points [155977]
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Yeah, I didn't even link to that but she made
Apr 10, 2019, 4:27 PM
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Lieu and Nadler look like some scheming little bishes, and the looks on their faces showed they knew it too.
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Oculus Spirit [93686]
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You don't expect me to look it up, do you.
Apr 10, 2019, 4:29 PM
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I love Candice.
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Lot o points [155977]
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Oculus Spirit [93686]
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I've seen the lady in that lady.
Apr 10, 2019, 4:43 PM
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When one of Fox's programs schedules her to appear I record it so I can FF through the boring parts.
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110%er [6101]
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All-In [28802]
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I mean, what she said about Hitler was pretty stupid
Apr 10, 2019, 5:26 PM
[ in reply to Yeah, I didn't even link to that but she made ] |
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Lieu was clearly being uncharitable in the way he interpreted it, though.
"Whenever we say 'nationalism,' the first thing people think about, at least in America, is Hitler," she said. "You know, he was a national socialist, but if Hitler had just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, OK, fine."
She added: "The problem is that he wanted — he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalize. He wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German, everybody to look a different way. That's not, to me, that's not nationalism. So in thinking about how we could go bad down the line, I don't really have an issue with nationalism. I really don't. I think that it's OK."
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Oculus Spirit [93686]
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I bet the left will learn to love her...
Apr 10, 2019, 4:28 PM
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as soon as Hades freezes over.
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Oculus Spirit [78892]
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the tall will hate the ...
Apr 10, 2019, 4:35 PM
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she was cut off, who will the tall hate?!?!?
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Lot o points [155977]
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Re: the tall will hate the ...
Apr 10, 2019, 4:36 PM
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Shorty
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Oculus Spirit [93686]
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Re: the tall will hate the ...
Apr 10, 2019, 4:44 PM
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110%er [6657]
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Oculus Spirit [83133]
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Clean and articulate works every time.***
Apr 10, 2019, 5:03 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93686]
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Joe...
Apr 10, 2019, 7:51 PM
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Biden?
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110%er [9785]
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Who's the nervous nelly to her
Apr 10, 2019, 5:08 PM
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right with the head shaking and figgity paper shuffling?
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All-In [28802]
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Legend [18026]
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She certainly did her job of derailing that hearing
Apr 10, 2019, 5:13 PM
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shameful, but effective display.
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All-In [28802]
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That's what Candace Owens does
Apr 10, 2019, 5:18 PM
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The whole hearing was unserious, though.
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Legend [18026]
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it wasn't unserious for Mohammad Abu-Salha
Apr 10, 2019, 5:25 PM
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and the reality of threats from white nationalism, but one side certainly views all that as "unserious."
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All-In [28802]
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Democrats are magnifying these threats as a political tool
Apr 10, 2019, 5:28 PM
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I agree that Candace Owens didn't really need to be there, and that her testimony was all about owning the libs, but white nationalism is a hobby horse or Democrats because they think they can tie it around Trump's neck. There's a reason they aren't holding these hearings on anti-semitism.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Legend [18026]
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All-In [28802]
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I don't think it should ignored
Apr 10, 2019, 5:35 PM
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and I really don't think Owens's testimony was appropriate for a Congressional hearing, let alone one that was supposed to be on white nationalism. It just seemed like the Democrats' witnesses were mostly there to score points by tying white nationalism to Trump, while the Republican witnesses were trying to own the libs (especially Owens). The sad reality is that Owens's attention seeking and partisanship is exactly why people love her.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Legend [18026]
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I don't disagree with that interpretation***
Apr 10, 2019, 5:40 PM
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Lot o points [155977]
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well that’s certainly an interpretation.
Apr 10, 2019, 7:18 PM
[ in reply to I don't think it should ignored ] |
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I don’t think it’s the correct one, but it is one.
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Oculus Spirit [93686]
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I thought it was refreshing to see...
Apr 10, 2019, 8:10 PM
[ in reply to I don't think it should ignored ] |
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a black woman out the dems for racebaiting and using reparations like carrot on a stick and white nationalism as a tool to frighten blacks into voting dem time we hold a POTUS election.
If what she said about her grandfather and growing up as she did is true her life is a testimony that's worthy of a congressional hearing.
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All-In [28802]
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Except it wasn't the time or the place
Apr 11, 2019, 1:34 PM
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The problem is this is somebody using her invitation to testify in front of Congress about something else to talk about whatever she wanted to. I think we should at least try to take Congressional proceedings seriously.
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Oculus Spirit [93686]
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I got that the proceeding were designed to out...
Apr 11, 2019, 2:46 PM
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white nationalism and racism violence. I think her testimony was exactly how balance and fair a congressional hearing should be. Both sides of an issue should be discussed.
Did I not get the whole intent of the hearing? I'll stand corrected if so, x.
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CU Guru [1020]
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Re: I thought it was refreshing to see...
Apr 13, 2019, 9:18 AM
[ in reply to I thought it was refreshing to see... ] |
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a black woman out the dems for racebaiting and using reparations like carrot on a stick and white nationalism as a tool to frighten blacks into voting dem time we hold a POTUS election.
If what she said about her grandfather and growing up as she did is true her life is a testimony that's worthy of a congressional hearing.
Exactly. She is a mirror for the hypocrisy that is liberal racism.
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Lot o points [155977]
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Does anyone read these surveys with a critical eye? (long)
Apr 10, 2019, 10:48 PM
[ in reply to I don't disagree that there's politics surrounding it... ] |
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Did you just skim it and declare "It's hard to ignore the signs of the rise of white nationalism", trusting that if the headline said it, it must be so?
I'm asking because I read the study in the link you provided....here's what I found. I didn't go to any right wing blogs for counterpoints or look up alternate studies---I just read the data you linked.
The study says that 50 Right-Wing Extremist murders in 2018 represent a 35% increase from 2017....sounds bad, right? Let's examine:
1) Here's the best one---read closely, I'll quote the study since it's buried pretty well in the data: "Ideological motives appear to have played a primary or secondary role in 19 of the 50 extremist murders (38%) in 2018. In the remaining murders, either the role that ideology may have played is unclear, the motives in general are unclear or the murders were likely committed for non-ideological reasons." Yep, 19 total murders in 2018 actually as a result of an extremist ideology. For the others, if something happened like a skinhead got drunk and beat his girlfriend to death, they counted it as a right wing extremist incident. This is like saying if a black panther got drunk and killed a pedestrian while driving, it was a black nationalist murder.
Even better, over the past 10 years, 51% of extremist crimes had an ideological motive vs 38% last year---still think it's on the rise? I'll keep going.
2) Two were listed because in 2018 for the first time, the ADL started listing murders committed by a misogynist as right wing extremist hate crimes. Ok, sure, I'll keep going....
3) The quote you made, the article you linked, and the study linked within, really seem to use the terms "white supremacy" and "right wing extremism" interchangeably. One problem...all the perpetrators weren't white. Here is one photo (perp on the left, victim on the right) of one of those included in their 19 murders...because he claimed to be a "sovereign citizen", they classified it as right wing extremism, which again, gets interchangeably referred to by you and many others as white supremacy.
Here are two more perps, responsible for a murder each in the tally---again, only remarkable in that they're counted as "right wing extremism", aka "white supremacy":
4) I'll just leave a few more summaries here of the crimes that made this list, in the study's own words:
Robstown, Texas, July 27, 2018. Richard Starry shot and killed four relatives at a local nursing center and at his home in an apparent act of domestic violence before killing himself. According to local media, Starry had been a member of a white supremacist group while in prison.
Dothan, Alabama, June 4, 2018. James Mathis, a member of the Georgia-based white supremacist prison gang Ghostface Gangsters, and his wife, Amanda Oakes, allegedly killed their six-month-old son and put his body in a freezer in a hotel room. The couple fled to Florida where they were arrested following a carjacking attempt.
Athens, Georgia, May 11, 2018. Following a family argument, Malachi Qaadir Dorns, 19, stabbed his mother and older brother multiple times, wounding his mother and killing his brother. In an earlier arrest, Dornss told police that he was a sovereign citizen.
Abingdon, Virginia, May 4, 2018. Roger Melvin Tackett was charged with first degree murder and other crimes after fatally shooting an acquaintance following a dispute. According to police, Tackett has multiple white supremacist tattoos.
So yeah, domestic violence is now an extremist crime.
Sorry for the saga, but I'm just tired of the bulllshit and tired of people getting manipulated in this country to think a significant portion of their fellow citizens are evil. They aren't. It's complete and total bulllshit. Of over 17,000 murders in the US in 2018, 19 were by extremists, committed as a result of their extremist ideology. Of those, maybe 10-15 were white supremacist crimes. Less than 1/10th of a percent. And yet people can still just toss around that right wing extremism and white supremacy is on the rise. It's a lie...it's intentional....and it's shameful.
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Legend [15749]
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First of all, this response is outstanding, Obed.
Apr 10, 2019, 11:14 PM
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What a great job you did in exposing the farce of these narratives. Kudos.
Secondly, I just watched both clips of Ms. Owens testimony and although I agree that her opening comments had an obvious political agenda, once you acknowledge that the whole event has a purely partisan political agenda, you can just sit back and enjoy the comeuppance.
But back to Obed, I think you summed it up perfectly. I’m tired of the false narratives and the fear mongering. Of the race-baiting BS. A study concluding that white supremacy is on the rise where a significant number of the crimes used to bolster that claim, by their own acknowledgement, have no clear racial connection. They ought to be ashamed.
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Legend [18026]
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Good points about that survey...
Apr 11, 2019, 2:44 AM
[ in reply to Does anyone read these surveys with a critical eye? (long) ] |
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And I do admit, I didn't read that actual survey but since you brought up issues with it I went back and read it. (I do recommend others who are curious to download it and read it, too)
1.) Here's how it explains the ideological motives: "Some might wonder why the COE tracks both ideological and non-ideological killings by extremists, instead of just ideological killings. One important reason has been described above—it is often difficult to know for sure if ideology played a role, significant or otherwise, in a murder or series of murders. Moreover, discounting non-ideological murders would provide a distorted idea of the nature of and dangers posed by extremist movements. Extreme causes often attract adherents with violent tendencies—tendencies that are reflected not only in the violence that adherents commit for their cause, but also the violence they commit against others—including rivals, spouses, children and acquaintances. White supremacists in the United States regularly commit murders in support of their hateful cause, but their violence—and thus the danger they pose to the country as a whole—extends far beyond that. To ignore non-ideological killings would be to discount a significant aspect of many of these extremist movements. Adherents of all terrorist and violent extremist movements, from Islamist extremists to narco-terrorists to anti-government militia groups, engage in both ideological and non-ideological criminal activity and violence. It is an inherent and integral part of the dangers they pose to society. Consequently, the COE tracks all killings connected to domestic extremists, whether an ideological motive is clearly evident or not, but does distinguish those killings for which a primary or secondary ideological motivation seems likely."
Maybe that's not persuasive, but that's the explanation and should be included in a critical review of the study.
2.) Couldn't find where it talked about this in the report.
3.) They do break down what they include when they say "right wing extremism" in this chart:
The guy on the left in your post is listed by the ADL as an anti-government sovereign citizen but I haven't looked into if that's true or not. The ADL seems to be including him as one of the 19% in that chart above. I think it's fair to say right wing extremism and white supremacy are not interchangeable as white supremacy is just one of many types of extremism that makes up right wing extremism (as the chart above illustrates).
4.) I think the ADL's defense of the crimes they list is that each of the accused had ties to some sort of domestic extremist group, which they cite as being difficult to always show primary or secondary influences.
But, overall I think you make fair points about that study and the overall threat about white nationalism from a violence standpoint (versus violence in total). However, the rise of white nationalism I'm seeing more of is in the ideas and beliefs being espoused on social media and through rhetoric surrounding ideas of "nationalism isn't bad" as well as what I think is fueling much of the immigration debate. More rallies, more organization, more propaganda and louder rhetoric over the last few years is what I see happening. But maybe I'm wrong and this threat isn't one to worry about.*
I just want to add that I don't think a significant portion of people are white nationalist, but I do think some of the populism/nationalism that fuels white nationalism is starting to get mixed into mainstream political ideas and I think that's pretty dangerous.
(also: I hope you see many parallels in what you're saying and how the immigration debate is being portrayed)
*(from 2017): https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/14/fbi-and-dhs-warned-of-growing-threat-from-white-supremacists-months-ago/
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Legend [15749]
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Thumbs up to you, DE. Good discussion and tone!***
Apr 11, 2019, 10:39 AM
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Lot o points [155977]
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While I'm at it (I'm bored), I just re-read the crime report
Apr 11, 2019, 12:00 AM
[ in reply to it wasn't unserious for Mohammad Abu-Salha ] |
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for the Chapel Hill murders of Abu-Salha's daughters and son-in-law.
They were committed by an atheist with antisocial anger management issues over continual disputes over parking spaces in their complex. The perpetrator was also a proponent of marriage equality, racial equality, and abortion rights. He was never charged with a hate crime, despite federal, state, and local investigations seeking to determine a hate motive.
Tell me again how his tragic loss was a result of "white nationalism"?
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Oculus Spirit [93686]
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They can't undream.
Apr 11, 2019, 10:02 AM
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Once the ideology rationalized into reality rational is gone.
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