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Heisman Winner [80658]
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I am not JK and don't aways agree
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Feb 16, 2023, 10:25 AM
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but some folks on here need to admit that most basketball losses we have had are the direct result of poor (terrible) shooting and/or turnovers along with poor rebounding. Coaching can teach good shot selection but can't control execution if players miss wide open shots and if individual players decide to do careless things with the ball and lose control or pass recklessly, all the coach can do is take the player out of the game (if he has a better option). Rebounding is a different story, the coach needs to emphasize not taking shots when nobody is even close to rebounding position and to block out better on defense - we did much better last night and FSU got very few offensive rebounds and we fought for the ball on our end of the court.
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Ultimate Tiger [33721]
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Re:
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Feb 16, 2023, 10:32 AM
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I don't think ANY outcome the rest of the season Will change any 1's opinion at this point. The line has been drawn in the sand, concreted over, and a wall built with machine gun pods..
The people who want Brownell to stay will continue to want him to stay even if Clemson goes 0'fer the rest of the year.
The people who want him going will want him gone no matter how many games Clemson can win the rest of the year. I don't even know if a NC would satisfy them.
there is no longer any middle grown here. us against them. Brownell stays , Brownell Goes.
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Paw Master [16128]
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I disagree. If Brownell makes the NCAA Tourney he deserves.
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Feb 16, 2023, 10:39 AM
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another year. But not 3 more. He needs to prove he can go consistently. Not once every 3-4 years
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Paw Warrior [4855]
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Re: I disagree. If Brownell makes the NCAA Tourney he deserves.
Feb 17, 2023, 7:52 AM
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Bingo. You said it best.
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Orange Immortal [62834]
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Re:
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Feb 16, 2023, 11:11 AM
[ in reply to Re: ] |
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I was part of that US you speak of for a solid 10 years until it became embarrassing to openly speak up for Brownell. Things could change for the better for Brownell and I hope that it does, but until that happens, I'm off the Brownell band wagon until he can prove I was wrong for giving up on him as our basketball HC.
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Top TigerNet [30960]
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Re: I am not JK and don't aways agree
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Feb 16, 2023, 10:33 AM
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I agree with you to a point.
Good coaching is more than just teaching fundamentals. It’s building confidence in your players/pupils. That confidence leads to better execution under duress.
Good coaching preparing your player or pupil mentally to get the best performance possible in every situation consistently, and repeating that performance over and over no matter the team, or situation.
Great coaches can make good players great and great players amazing.
My issue with Brad is he does what he does with good players and that’s all he has shown he can do. He has yet IMO to coach a good player to greatness or a great player to be amazing.
To that point, he has run an overall clean program, our players graduate, show great integrity on and off the court, and that’s what Clemson is about. However, he lacks the ability to get more from his players. A 13 year body of work has shown me that. And it’s for that reason, among others, I think it’s time for a change.
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CU Guru [1501]
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You nailed it. All teams have some inconsistency.
Feb 16, 2023, 3:35 PM
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We have 13 years of it, and our more-than-normal inconsistency is exactly why we're currently ranked 78th and have a 12.7 year average of 76th. The buck stops firmly and unquestionably with the head coach. No more excuses!
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Ring of Honor [22746]
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Re: I am not JK and don't aways agree
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Feb 16, 2023, 10:34 AM
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Clover, all fair points. These last 5 games will prove whether or not this team is different or if it is more of the same. We can't afford a letdown on Saturday. Hopefully, we won't be like the golfer who shoots 61 on Saturday and then 71 on Sunday. We need to build on this little momentum we created against FSU.
We should beat Louisville and ND and then the 3 games that will decide our post-season fate will be Syracuse, NCS, and UVA. If we could win 2 out of 3 of those and at least 1 game in the ACC Tournament then I think we might squeak into the Big Dance but it will be close.
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Paw Master [16128]
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Excellent analysis. That's about right. I think we have...
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Feb 16, 2023, 10:44 AM
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to beat Cuse along with one of UVA or NCST.
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Orange Immortal [62834]
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Re: I am not JK and don't aways agree
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Feb 16, 2023, 11:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: I am not JK and don't aways agree ] |
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If this team can get past UVA without being embarrassed will be a plus...
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CU Guru [1501]
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I think we must beat UVA and NCSU,
Feb 16, 2023, 3:38 PM
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or we're on the outside looking in, again, save a couple wins, maybe even 3, in the ACCT. There's not a lot of meat left on the bone to get out of the 70's in NET.
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Clemson Conqueror [11405]
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Paw Master [16128]
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Brown-L has ONE responsibility...ONE. And that is to get...
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Feb 16, 2023, 10:37 AM
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us to the NCAA Tourney. He's done that twice in the last 12 years. That isn't enough. And this year isn't looking great.
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Hall of Famer [9052]
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Im still waiting for a valid reason to keep Brownlee
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Feb 16, 2023, 10:47 AM
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And all I ever hear is essentially, well Clemson has typically sucked in hoops, so in that regard there is no reason to fire Brownell. LOL just completely ridiculous.
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Paw Warrior [4836]
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Re: I am not JK and don't aways agree
Feb 16, 2023, 12:34 PM
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If you've been coaching players for years and they are still making fundamental mistakes, isn't that the coaches fault?
If you have players that are seniors but are transfers and aren't executing, isn't that because of the decision to take transfer rather than develop talent?
We look REALLY good when we hit shots and mediocre to bad when we don't, but as Tyson has fallen off it's easy to see that other ACC teams coach their players to prevent good players from getting their favorite shots.
and we double team Bacot and let UNC take wide open 3 pointers and still can't rebound...
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Heisman Winner [80658]
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But UNC had the same open shots their next
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Feb 16, 2023, 2:53 PM
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game and went 2 for 22 on 3's in the beginning so you can't blame our coach because they had their one good game against us. Have to plan for the usual but don't always get it.
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National Champion [7260]
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Re: But UNC had the same open shots their next
Feb 16, 2023, 7:07 PM
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Did you watch that game? Were their 3s good looks? Just curious. I believe they played up to their potential against us no doubt about that but we also played poorly on D and I don't believe you can chalk that game up to just them making shots.
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Oculus Spirit [44753]
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Re: I am not JK and don't aways agree
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Feb 16, 2023, 12:38 PM
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10 plus years will not change my mind. One of his better teams against one of the weakest years in ACC history. Unexplainable losses to 3 terrible teams.
Folks can spin things however they want to make a point. Blame money, blame fans I could care less but Clemson can do better.
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Heisman Winner [86187]
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Rebounding especially is as much about desire as anything.
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Feb 16, 2023, 12:43 PM
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One of the all time best NBA rebounders was certainly not the most physically imposing specimen. I am talking about "Wormy", as Dennis Rodman was referred to, probably one of his more flattering nicknames. He used rock solid fundamentals to put himself in POSITION to snag rebounds, but just as importantly, he used relentless HUSTLE to get them. If the ball was even remotely close to him, he was going to fight for it, and in most cases, he won those fights.
That is one aspect of our team that good coaching could CERTAINLY improve.
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Hall of Famer [8862]
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In the ESPN documentary he talked about studying
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Feb 16, 2023, 12:53 PM
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guys shots to know how they miss and where to anticipate the rebound. His antics overshadowed his play but one thing you can't deny was his hustle and willingness to sacrifice his body. He was one of my favorite players when I actually cared about the NBA. Superman, Batman, Rod-man! that was my team in the 90s
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Tiger Titan [50785]
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Dennis Rodman was a one dimensional player who was a cancer throughout his career.
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Feb 16, 2023, 3:30 PM
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He was a great rebounder, but his minimal contributions on offense and his inability to be a team player with any consistency made him a liability.
He’s one of the most overrated players in NBA history, and doesn’t belong in the Hall of Fame.
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Ultimate Tiger [34330]
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Re: Dennis Rodman was a one dimensional player who was a cancer throughout his career.
Feb 16, 2023, 3:34 PM
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Are you saying he wouldn’t fit the culture of your team?
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Tiger Titan [50785]
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He didn’t seem to fit the culture of any team.
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Feb 16, 2023, 4:03 PM
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His best culture fit was the Bad Boy Pistons, and he even wore out his welcome there to the point that he burned bridges and was traded.
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CU Medallion [18465]
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Re: He didn’t seem to fit the culture of any team.
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Feb 16, 2023, 4:34 PM
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What are you on? 7 years in Detroit with 2 titles. 3 straight titles in Chicago where he played exactly the role expected of him. You’re not even making sense.
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CU Guru [1501]
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I often wonder if she's giggling like a teenage girl
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Feb 17, 2023, 9:08 AM
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when she makes those types of posts. Rodman was a beast and great at what he did.
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Ultimate Tiger [34330]
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Tiger Titan [50785]
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Well, if a player proved to be more of a distraction than an asset
Feb 16, 2023, 6:12 PM
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then I wouldn’t want him on my team.
I’m really confused as to why you’re asking so many questions about this.
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National Champion [7260]
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Re: Well, if a player proved to be more of a distraction than an asset
Feb 16, 2023, 7:09 PM
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Not sure the Bulls win those 3 without him but I do agree he was a distraction. MJ would say he helped the team more then hurt it though.
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Ultimate Tiger [34330]
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Re: Well, if a player proved to be more of a distraction than an asset
Feb 16, 2023, 7:17 PM
[ in reply to Well, if a player proved to be more of a distraction than an asset ] |
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Because you went to great lengths to ridicule the idea that Dabo might not transfers from the portal that he didn’t feel fit the culture of his program. Sounds like maybe you do understand the concept - as long as it isn’t Dabo making the decision.
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Tiger Titan [50785]
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Well, if Dabo believes that most players in the portal are like Dennis Rodman
Feb 16, 2023, 10:30 PM
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then maybe he hasn’t looked into their backgrounds enough.
Dabo seems to assume that a player in the portal is a bad culture fit, and if true that’s a shame.
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CU Medallion [18465]
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Re: Well, if Dabo believes that most players in the portal are like Dennis Rodman
Feb 17, 2023, 6:13 AM
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You’re making A LOT of assumptions (about Dabo, Dennis Rodman, and portal players) to criticize someone for possibly making assumptions (which you yourself are only assuming). Profound hypocrisy is your strong suit though.
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Ultimate Tiger [34330]
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Re: Well, if Dabo believes that most players in the portal are like Dennis Rodman
Feb 17, 2023, 7:30 AM
[ in reply to Well, if Dabo believes that most players in the portal are like Dennis Rodman ] |
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Big STRETCH to say Dabo believes most players in the portal are like Dennis Rodman. Dabo doesn’t make assumptions. He does look into their backgrounds and if they don’t fit, he isn’t interested. Your jealously of the football program and coach is running exceptionally strong even for you on this one. You dug your own hole on this thread and even you aren’t accomplished enough at the art of deflection to get out of it.
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Tiger Titan [50785]
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Let’s review.
Feb 17, 2023, 9:09 AM
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1. You thought that by getting me to say that I wouldn’t take a bad culture fit like Rodman, then you could make a point that I shouldn’t be so critical of Dabo for not using the portal.
2. By doing so, you are implying that there are mostly Rodman types in the portal. Your example doesn’t work otherwise.
3. I don’t view portal players that way. I don’t know that Dabo does either, but IF he does, then he’s painting with a broad brush and making assumptions he shouldn’t.
4. Most players in the portal seem to simply be looking for a better opportunity. Most are good kids who want to play more, or who want to be closer to home, or see some other advantage to changing schools. Some are high level players. We are foolish not to utilize the portal more.
5. This was a weak attempt by you. Not your best work.
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Ultimate Tiger [34330]
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Re: Let’s review.
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Feb 17, 2023, 4:26 PM
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Here’s the review:
1. You said you wouldn’t want Rodman on your team because he is a cancer.
2. I said that you went to great lengths to ridicule Dabo for not taking portal players that he thinks doesn’t fit his culture. So you do understand the culture issue but you condemn Dabo for trying to protect the culture at Clemson.
3. You read something I to my comments that wasn’t there and STRETCHED some type of weak deflection
4. Pretty much your typical MO for discussion.
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CU Medallion [18465]
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Re: Dennis Rodman was a one dimensional player who was a cancer throughout his career.
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Feb 16, 2023, 4:31 PM
[ in reply to Dennis Rodman was a one dimensional player who was a cancer throughout his career. ] |
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Welp that confirms that you’re not even a basketball fan. He was a role player in Chicago. He led the league in fg% and fg efficiency one year in Detroit. And he was a very consistent scorer during that tenure. Your entire pro-basketball persona is either a fraud or you’re so young you know him mostly for his antics.
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Ultimate Tiger [34330]
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Re: Rebounding especially is as much about desire as anything.
Feb 16, 2023, 3:04 PM
[ in reply to Rebounding especially is as much about desire as anything. ] |
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Very true. Hustling to get yourself in the right position is a huge part of rebounding. I played a lot of basketball and a lot of the time I was the smallest guy on the court. Had many people ask me how I managed to get as many rebounds as I did. That is the answer - studying the game will teach you the angles that rebounds will most likely come off the board and then hustling to get in position and block out the opponent will put you in the right place at the right time. You can coach the angles and how to get in position but the hustle has to come from the player.
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Tiger Titan [50785]
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It’s not as simple as hustle and desire at the college level though.
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Feb 16, 2023, 6:14 PM
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In half court playground basketball, sure.
In high major college basketball? There’s a lot more to think about, such as where your man is, getting back on defense, being ready for a fast break, etc.
People here who are trying to oversimplify our rebounding by saying that we would get more rebounds if we tried harder don’t get it.
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Ultimate Tiger [34330]
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Re: It’s not as simple as hustle and desire at the college level though.
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Feb 16, 2023, 7:12 PM
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Read it again. I mentioned studying the game to understand the angles involved and the likely direction of the carom helps immensely. And you must know where your man is to block him out the way I described. That is what I said can be coached. The hustle comes from the player.
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CU Medallion [18465]
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Re: It’s not as simple as hustle and desire at the college level though.
Feb 17, 2023, 6:16 AM
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Derp - don’t you realize that “high level” basketball has as many as three - count ‘em - components to defensive play. It’s like 4D chess and you’ll never be able to grasp what’s really required. So just trust the man - Brownell is the best at coaching it.
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Heisman Winner [86187]
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Lol, I expected that title line to be followed up with "But
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Feb 16, 2023, 1:37 PM
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I DID sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night!"
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CU Guru [1501]
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It's been 13 years of the same.
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Feb 16, 2023, 3:32 PM
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It's not the players.
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Clemson Icon [24077]
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This team is just like a Bowden Team
Feb 16, 2023, 4:10 PM
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NEVER prepared to play every game. That's coaching. Same crap every single season IS a pattern and IS coaching
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Tiger Titan [50785]
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What a ridiculous take.
Feb 17, 2023, 9:11 AM
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No team is prepared to play every game.
If your standard for a good coach is that they have their team prepared to play every game, then your list of good coaches is empty.
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National Champion [7260]
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Re: I am not JK and don't aways agree
Feb 16, 2023, 7:04 PM
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Most of our Ls we don't move the ball around on O and give the other team open shots on D. We do not make adjustments when the other teams do. This year has been better in close games thought so I give BB great there. Years past we have been very poor in close games. A trend that imo can only be caused by coaching.
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Varsity [104]
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Re: I am not JK and don't aways agree
Feb 16, 2023, 10:32 PM
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Rival Killer [2772]
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Re: I am not JK and don't aways agree
Feb 17, 2023, 1:21 AM
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Rebounding is coaching.
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National Champion [7200]
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Re: I am not JK and don't aways agree
Feb 17, 2023, 7:57 AM
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Coaches do the following in addition to what you say:
1. Evaluate talent.
2. Recruit
3. Develop talent
4. Manage talent
The best X O coach in the world is a terrible performing coach if he can't effectively manage the above duties.
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