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Top TigerNet [30066]
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Sex vs. Gender.
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Feb 24, 2025, 2:22 PM
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I understand there is a difference. But, I am sincerely confused as to what the difference is. And, I understand that words can mean different things in different contexts.
Can some educate me.
Male and Female - are they words that are only associated with sex, or can they apply to gender as well?
Man and Woman - It seems they can apply to sex and gender.
Is it possible for a human being to be classified as any of the following?
Male woman
Female man
Male man
Female woman
And, can someone give me a definition of gender so that it distinguishes the difference between gender and biological sex?
Finally can someone define "man" and "woman" without using those words in the definition? ("A man is anyone who identifies as a man" would not be acceptable as a definition in any dictionary any more than "A planet is an object that is identified as a planet.")
Thanks. If we can understand the meaning of words, it would help the discussion.
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Clemson Icon [27558]
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Re: Sex vs. Gender.
Feb 24, 2025, 2:24 PM
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I guess there are hermaphrodites and people with mixed up parts. I guess it's not always cut and dry. It usually is though.
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Oculus Spirit [42203]
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well you came to the right place, bud. Sex is M or F ... Gender is like
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Feb 24, 2025, 2:25 PM
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FSU Football before and after Bobby Bowden.
Mike Norvell bangs dudes.
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Tiger Titan [48920]
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Re: well you came to the right place, bud. Sex is M or F ... Gender is like
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Feb 24, 2025, 3:04 PM
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Clemson Icon [27836]
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Valley Legend [12838]
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Re: Sex vs. Gender.
Feb 24, 2025, 2:32 PM
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male
female
and pretending
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Asst Coach [861]
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Re: Sex vs. Gender.
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Feb 24, 2025, 2:36 PM
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Speaking of that, Paige Spirinac is dropping by my place to help me with my grip. I hear that she has a great short game.
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Valley Legend [12838]
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Re: Sex vs. Gender.
Feb 24, 2025, 2:44 PM
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that is a woman
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108959]
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It's very simple with like 99% of people.
Feb 24, 2025, 2:43 PM
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There's the genetics, then there's the anatomy, and that's ALMOST always correct and matching.
There's this idea among the woke, liberal crowd that you can choose to be whatever you want. Male, female, both, none, #### a donkey or a cat or dog even.
IF you have a Y chromosome, and a ##### and testicles, you're male. If you lack the Y chromosome, and have a ###### and ovaries, you're female. Again, 99% of humans fall into this system for gender.
Now someone may WANT to be something else, or think they're something else, doesn't matter IMHO. If you have a wanker, you use the men's restroom, men's showers, and play men's sports. If you have a ######, no Y chromosome, and a ###### and no wanker, ladies room. It's not difficult.
There are some rare genetic disorders that may have someone with a Y chromosome who doesn't have a #####, but has a ######. In that case, ladies room.
Sports is where you run into major problems with the woke, you are whatever you think you are approach. See, as you reach puberty, and stary playing sports, that Y chromosome is going to cause you to produce testosterone, and that builds muscle, bone mass, and strength. And that gives an unfair advantage in WOMEN'S SPORTS. What you don't see is often is women who think they're men playing MEN'S football because, again, no advantage, but a disadvantage. If a woman wants to play football, fine by me, BUT, well, good luck with that. And if she makes the team, she's using a different shower.
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Orange Immortal [65780]
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Forget sex and gender. For the purposes of this discussion, forget all labels.
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Feb 24, 2025, 2:49 PM
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Some people are born with dix and bawls and full of testosterone. They can't ever menstruate or have babies.
Some other people are born with poosays and eventually grow tids and are full of estrogen. They eventually menstruate and can have babby.
In some very rare cases, there are people who are born with one or more of those characteristics from both groups. Still, the vast majority of people fall exclusively into one of the first two groups.
Those in group 1 are generally bigger, stronger, and faster and have significantly more body and facial hair and tend to be more aggressive than those in group 2. These are undeniable characteristics that make a difference in certain situations.
Some people are born into one of the two groups, but for whatever reason, mentally and emotionally feel like they belong in the other group. These people should not be bullied, persecuted, or harmed in any way. They should be treated with compassion, understanding, and acceptance. That does not mean that the important differences mentioned above should be ignored.
Use whatever labels you want, as long as you observe all of the above.
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Top TigerNet [30066]
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But, that isn't what the T in LGBT is referring to, is it?
Feb 24, 2025, 6:16 PM
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They aren't referring to those rare genetic cases that you describe. They are talking about a biological male (sex) can be a woman (gender), or vice versa, aren't they?
I'm sincerely trying to get someone to explain to me how gender differs from sex. And how someone can say, "I'm a man (sex) and I'm a woman (gender)." I was hoping someone could explain it to me.
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Orange Immortal [65780]
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I can't explain it, and I don't feel like I need to.
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Feb 24, 2025, 9:20 PM
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What I feel compelled to do is be kind and respectful to people who truly feel they are in the wrong body, and are confused by or unhappy with their birth sex, even if that involves transitioning or changing how they choose to be identified.
Has the issue been used as a political tool? Absolutely. Should little girls be forced to share their restrooms with men in dresses? #### no. Should Mike Tyson be allowed to box women following a transition? Of course not. Should we all be forced to agree that sex/gender/whatever is irrelevant? Of course not. I don't support any of that nonsense.
That's all. It's really not complicated at all.
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
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My advice to you would be to do some online research....
Feb 26, 2025, 8:39 AM
[ in reply to But, that isn't what the T in LGBT is referring to, is it? ] |
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There are websites that get into the glossary of terms surrounding Transgender people, and the difference between sex and gender, or at least in how they see it.
You could google, and easily find answers to your questions, I think.
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Top TigerNet [31619]
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My understanding and outlook
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Feb 24, 2025, 2:51 PM
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In general 'sex' in this context refers to biological sex as represented by physical characteristics (typically sexual organs), whereas 'gender' refers to socially constructed gender roles that are "typically" carried out by men or women.
Given these definitions I imagine you'd agree that those social roles are not universal and certainly both have changed and will change as society changes.
In the current debate about gender/sex as they pertain to individuals for whom the 2 conflict it seems, to me, as a person who has walked (and is walking) through this with people I love, that people have a very hard time understanding why individuals feel that conflict, and thus can't (or are unwilling to) sympathize/empathize.
But, research has shown time and again (and is still being performed) that for people with gender dysmorphia it is generally (though not universally) safest and healthiest for them to adjust the physical (through surgery, medication, or simple lifestyle/appearance identity choices) rather than the mental.
But, to your questions...
"Male and Female - are they words that are only associated with sex,
or can they apply to gender as well?
Man and Woman - It seems they can apply to sex and gender."
Typically Man/Woman are used to refer to societal roles, and Male/Female are use to refer to biological/physical criteria. Of course in common speak that is not always the case as the two are confused (and even in folks who know way more about this than me you will here them interchanged in an attempt to normalize speech for folks in favor of acceptance).
"Is it possible for a human being to be classified as any of the following?
Male woman
Female man
Male man
Female woman"
Not really, what you might here is "A male who presents as a woman", but no one I've heard use4s the sort of speech you are referencing as it's intentionally confusing.
Other terms to acquaint yourself with if you are genuinely curious rather than just fishing for debate...
"Assigned Male At Birth" / "Assigned Female at Birth"
These are used to identify that the individual themself presents, typically, the physical characteristics of one sex or the other, but no assumption is being made as to their actual identity (and whether it is in line with this observation).
"And, can someone give me a definition of gender so that it distinguishes the difference between gender and biological sex?"
Sure:
A man is a person whose psychological identity is that of a person traditionally seen (from the modern prevailing cultural view) as male.
A woman is a person whose psychological identity is that of a person traditionally seen (from the modern prevailing cultural view) as female.
For us folks who have never had to personally deal with the two being in conflict it is hard to understand, but it isn't some crazy left wing plot to indoctrinate your kids. It's about the mental well being of individuals who do not conform to the norms.
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Orange Immortal [65780]
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I know someone who transitioned.
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Feb 24, 2025, 4:28 PM
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Don't know if it was a full transition, but some friends of ours had a beautiful, normal, healthy daughter who started living as a male when she became an adult. All good people; this is just what she wanted. I mean, that's all there was to it as far as I know. I know it wasn't easy by any means, for any of the family, but ultimately they were all loving and supportive.
I think it would be wrong for Bruce Jenner to have transitioned at age 25 and then compete in the women's decathlon. I think it would be wrong for Mike Tyson to transition and box women. I think it's wrong to not have single sex public restrooms available. I think it's wrong to pretend as if there aren't some real meaningful differences.
I also know that this young person is a fine human being who deserves love and respect. It's not really that complicated.
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Top TigerNet [31619]
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It often takes knowing someone working through it to understand
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Feb 24, 2025, 5:44 PM
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Or, more honestly, to begin to try to understand.
I agree with you on pretty much all of it. I'm on record (as probably the most outspoken person on this side of this issue here) that I think trans athletes in sports can easily be handled by the individual sports governing bodies themselves.
I also know that it's not a hill to die on in the context of the myriad of other ways the people I know who are working through this are struggling to be accepted and respected.
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
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I know one person that transitioned as well...
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Feb 24, 2025, 7:35 PM
[ in reply to I know someone who transitioned. ] |
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It's a former "he" that is becoming a "she".
On a persona level, I don't understand it, or why on Earth anyone would want to do that. I thank God that none of my children have wanted to do that.
But at the same time, I worry about what she is going to be dealing with in life in terms of general persecution. The US went through a period where transgender people were more accepted than previously. But the pendelum is swinging, and if I were in her family, I would worry about her safety in this country.
Transgender people are the ultimate "other" in this country, maybe even moreso than undocumented immigrants. In many social circles, it's OK to hate them, and that type of thinking could cause some horrible consequences.
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Orange Immortal [65780]
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Yeah it's hard to say if transitioning is the right thing, and every case is
Feb 24, 2025, 8:41 PM
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different. I understand that some regret doing it. My job is simply to be kind and understanding, even though I don't fully understand it, and encourage others to do the same.
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Ultimate Tiger [33455]
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Re: I know someone who transitioned.
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Feb 24, 2025, 9:45 PM
[ in reply to I know someone who transitioned. ] |
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Not only is it wrong for men to compete in women's sports, it is cruel to the women who have worked hard in that sport to have to compete against men.
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Paw Warrior [5027]
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Re: I know someone who transitioned.
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Feb 25, 2025, 6:45 AM
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That’s honestly my one and only beef with it. It’s just not fair. Think about it. We’ve always tried to keep performance enhancing drugs like anabolic steroids out of sports because it creates an unfair advantage. So, we go to great lengths in that , disqualify people over “slip ups” in those things, yet it’s perfectly fine now for a man to now jump in a boxing ring and beat the crap out of a girl. Insane.
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Top TigerNet [30066]
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Thanks.
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Feb 24, 2025, 6:39 PM
[ in reply to My understanding and outlook ] |
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What you are referring to as gender I would consider it to be more "masculine" and "feminine."
******
whereas 'gender' refers to socially constructed gender roles that are "typically" carried out by men or women.
******
If you are talking "roles" then that would make male nurses and elementary school teachers "women" and female construction workers would be "men." If you are talking more "characteristics" generally associated with a particular sex, then I would certainly agree that there are "feminine men" and "masculine women." But isn't that significantly different from what a "transgender" person is claiming?
If I "throw like a girl" that doesn't make me a woman, does it?
And, you gave the definitions
*******
A man is a person whose psychological identity is that of a person traditionally seen (from the modern prevailing cultural view) as male.
A woman is a person whose psychological identity is that of a person traditionally seen (from the modern prevailing cultural view) as female.
*******
So to be clear, then it would make sense for a person to be classified as a "male woman" or a "female man." If I am a biological male who psychologically thinks of myself as a female, then you could accurately call me a "male woman."
And, we could end the "bathroom and locker room controversy" by referring to them as "male and female" rather than "men and women." And instead of men's and women's sports we could have male and female sports. Then there would be no debate. Even if I identify as a woman, I am still a male so I would use the proper locker room and play on the proper team.
I think we agree on that, don't we? Or am I misunderstanding?
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Orange Elite [5455]
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Tiger_thom isnt going to agree with your intentional attempt to discredit
Feb 24, 2025, 6:55 PM
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someone’s gender.
In real life, gender is much more important than biological sex.
Calling someone male woman or woman male is just meant to be inflammatory and bigoted toward that person.
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Ultimate Tiger [33455]
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Re: Tiger_thom isnt going to agree with your intentional attempt to discredit
Feb 24, 2025, 9:41 PM
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No, in real life, biology is more important than what someone believes they are - see sports and medical treatment.
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Top TigerNet [30066]
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I'm not trying to incite anyone. I'm just looking for a rational discussion...
Feb 24, 2025, 9:56 PM
[ in reply to Tiger_thom isnt going to agree with your intentional attempt to discredit ] |
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.... of the issue.
There is a huge debate going on in the country right now over the issue of sex, gender, transgender, gender fluid, etc.
I'm just asking for a clarification of terms.
All I've seen so far from people who are trying to have a discussion and not an argument is that Gender and sex are not really related and that male and female refer to sex while man and woman refer to gender. If that is the case then we should be able to clarify it by using the proper words for an accurate description.
If a biological male is psychologically a woman, then the proper description would be "male woman" would it not? Why is that offensive?
No one is claiming that a biological male can become a biological female are they?
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Orange Elite [5455]
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Miss, youre not looking for a rational conversation
Feb 25, 2025, 6:25 AM
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When you ask why calling a woman a man is offensive. Or why calling a man a woman is offensive.
If you want to argue that transgender women may had an advantage in sports, go for it. But that’s not what you’re doing. You’re discrediting their existence as women.
Gender and sex are different terms for a reason.
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Ultimate Tiger [33455]
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Re: Miss, youre not looking for a rational conversation
Feb 25, 2025, 7:59 AM
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Asking someone to call a woman a man and call a man a woman is offensive.
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
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Are you offended by the existence of transgender people?***
Feb 26, 2025, 8:40 AM
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Ultimate Tiger [33455]
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Re: Are you offended by the existence of transgender people?***
Feb 26, 2025, 8:44 AM
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No - are you? There are all sorts of people who believe they are something that they are physically not. None of these people offend me.
If a man believes he is a woman, then that's his business. If he expects me to believe he is a woman, then that is my business.
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
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If you say this....
Feb 26, 2025, 9:17 AM
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"Asking someone to call a woman a man and call a man a woman is offensive."....
Then it seems you are offended by the existence of transgender people.
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Ultimate Tiger [33455]
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Re: If you say this....
Feb 26, 2025, 9:23 AM
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No, it doesn't at all. As I stated above, I am not offended by people who believe they are something they physically are not. This happens with all sorts of people. Just don't expect me to believe it.
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Top TigerNet [30066]
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I started by asking for a definition of a man and a woman.
Feb 25, 2025, 9:50 AM
[ in reply to Miss, youre not looking for a rational conversation ] |
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I didn't even classify if it was the "sex" definition or the "gender" definition.
Can you give me the definition of "man" and "woman"?
Here are the definitions I learned back many years ago.
Man - adult, male human being.
Woman - adult, female human being.
Apparently those definitions are incorrect. Can you, or anyone else reading this, please give me the correct definition.
I someone identifies as a woman, what is that person identifying as?
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Orange Elite [5455]
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Why do you need a definition? Are you going to tell someone she's not woman
Feb 25, 2025, 6:39 PM
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enough to be a woman?
What makes you think you have the right to do that? More importantly, why do you care about determining if someone is a woman?
What's the definition of a Christian?
Do I have the right to tell someone they're not a Christian because they don't align with my personal belief of what a Christian is?
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Top TigerNet [30066]
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Clearly, we need a definition.
Feb 25, 2025, 8:52 PM
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We have people who claim to be women playing in women's sports even though they are males.
Why is it so hard to define "woman" or "man"? Why does everyone get so defensive when asked to define a very simple word that is used in everyday life?
Should a man be allowed to use a woman's locker room? Should a male be allowed to shower with females?
One of the major topics of discussion in politics is "women's rights." Well, how does that mean anything if we can't agree on what we mean when we say woman?
I'm as confused as ever. I started this topic hoping someone could give me a reasonable answer to what seem to be very simple questions. Apparently, I can't.
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Orange Elite [5455]
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I know you "think" you're winning this discussion by being "rational" but
Feb 26, 2025, 7:01 AM
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you're not. You're just using word play to try to cover up bigotry.
When you look back at pictures from the 1950s and 1960s where white people are standing outside schools protesting black children from entering, are you proud of those guys? Do you think those guys were right? Or are you like most of us and are embarrassed they did that?
That's what you're doing now. Those same people most of us are embarrassed by tried to use the same wordplay you're using now. Eventually, people will look back and be embarrassed for you the same way most of us are embarrassed for them.
I know you're older, but you still have time to change and be a decent person. Life is too short and valuable to live your life in a way where society will be better once you're gone.
Best of luck. I hope you find some peace for whatever brings up so much hate in your heart.
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Ultimate Tiger [33455]
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Re: I know you "think" you're winning this discussion by being "rational" but
Feb 26, 2025, 7:40 AM
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Sooo... you're not going to attempt to answer his question
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Top TigerNet [30066]
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Sorry, but I haven't got a clue what you are trying to explain.
Feb 26, 2025, 3:18 PM
[ in reply to I know you "think" you're winning this discussion by being "rational" but ] |
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I know message boards are a very difficult place to have a discussion. If we were sitting down together with a cup of coffee I'm sure we could clear up the confusion.
Not sure how we got off into racism in the 1950s. I just asked someone to define "man" and "woman." Seems like a simple task, regardless of one's belief on the connection between sex and gender.
All I'm seeing so far are deflections and accusations against my motives. I simply am trying to understand how a person can be a biological male and also a woman. I thought if I understood the definition of those two words it would help me understand.
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Orange Elite [5455]
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There is no confusion, you're simply not looking for honest discussion
Feb 27, 2025, 7:29 AM
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or incapable of having an actual educated conversation.
A person who was truly interested in an honest discussion would realize that you're exhibiting the same actions as the segregationists. But you lack that self-introspection.
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Top TigerNet [30066]
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Thanks.
Feb 27, 2025, 12:01 PM
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I find it interesting that I am being accused of not wanting a rational discussion. But, none of the accusers have attempted to enter into a discussion, only to de3flect and say things like, "I don't need to answer your questions, just google them."
Meanwhile, no one can give a definitions of what male, female, man, woman are.
It's like they don't know the what the words mean, but they are embarrassed to admit it.
I was hoping for those who claim to understand the difference between sex and gender could educate me. Looks like I was wrong.
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Orange Elite [5455]
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Says the person who refused to define a "Christian" when asked
Feb 27, 2025, 12:37 PM
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which highlights you're not arguing in good faith.
You've already been given the definition, that a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman. You know wanting to accept that answer is a reflection of you and no one else.
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Top TigerNet [30066]
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I'll define a Christian.
Feb 27, 2025, 1:15 PM
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A person who has admitted he is a sinner, repented of his sin, believes Jesus is God and died for the atonement of his sins, and has submitted his life to Jesus.
Now, tell me how you would react if I said, "A Christian is anyone who identifies as a Christian." That definition makes zero sense.
Can you give me a "non-circular" definition? I learned way back in elementary school that a definition cannot contain the word it is defining.
I learned that a man is an adult male human being. Apparently, that is no longer the accepted definition of a man. Can you give me the correct definition?
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Orange Elite [5455]
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Billy Graham defines a Christian as
Feb 27, 2025, 1:44 PM
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"A Christian is a person who is trusting Jesus Christ for their eternal salvation, and is seeking to follow Him in their daily life."
So if someone comes to you and claims that they're a Christian because they believe in Jesus Christ and follow him, you're going to tell them they're not a Christian? Because they don't meet your definition of a Christian, they can't be one?
You also might want to tell Oxford Dictionary they don't know how definitions work as they define female as: "relating to women or to the female gender"
Merriam Webster is even better as a female as "having a gender identity that is the opposite of male"
You still are refusing to accept the fact you don't get to tell someone what they identify as.
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Top TigerNet [30066]
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Billy Graham also said...
Feb 27, 2025, 1:56 PM
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.... you can sit in a garage and yell, "Vroom! Vroom!" but that doesn't make you a car any more than sitting in a church and calling yourself a Christian makes you a Christian."
(Sorry, not related to our discussion, but it is a funny line from Billy Graham I thought of when I saw his name.)
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Orange Elite [5455]
TigerPulse: 44%
38
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Likewise, you can stand at a pulpit screaming Jesus is real
Feb 27, 2025, 2:12 PM
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but it doesn't actually make him real.
But you sound like a real jerk trying to tell someone what they can believe if they're not hurting anyone.
It's a shame you can't treat others with the same respect that you're afforded.
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Paw Warrior [5027]
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Re: Sex vs. Gender.
3
Feb 24, 2025, 4:25 PM
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I remember a time not long ago when this did not need explanation.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52972]
TigerPulse: 100%
59
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Joined: 2015
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Exactly. Progress to understand and empathize with people should be celebrated***
3
Feb 24, 2025, 4:34 PM
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Paw Warrior [5027]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Exactly. Progress to understand and empathize with people should be celebrated***
Feb 24, 2025, 4:41 PM
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Progress? We now have to debate the most basic biological fact on the planet? Yeah boy we have truly evolved.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52972]
TigerPulse: 100%
59
Posts: 33528
Joined: 2015
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You must have slept through Biology class***
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Feb 24, 2025, 4:48 PM
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Paw Warrior [5027]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: You must have slept through Biology class***
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Feb 24, 2025, 4:54 PM
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Is that a joke?? I’m gonna guess I’ve had a lot more biology classes than you. Now if you asked if I slept through psychology class it would be a reasonable question per this ridiculous debate.
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Top TigerNet [30066]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Campus Hero [13551]
TigerPulse: 100%
48
Posts: 16895
Joined: 2010
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Humans have a sex (and other animals,) while objects have a gender.
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Feb 24, 2025, 5:54 PM
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The Latin-based languages make heavy use of this, while English doesn't very often.
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Paw Master [17345]
TigerPulse: 100%
51
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Joined: 2015
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All I know is that trannies be kicking ### in sports.***
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Feb 24, 2025, 6:24 PM
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