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Orange Immortal [65909]
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Clemson basketball: The time for excuses is over.
Jan 7, 2017, 5:29 PM
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In Brownell's seventh season, it's very simple: Win.
That means winning is good and to be expected, losing is bad.
That means today was bad. No praise for effort, no need for analysis. We lost another one. That's bad - period.
We don't need to talk about how it's early yet, or how we're young, or how Brownell just hasn't had a fair shot, or how tough the league is, or any of that worn out #########. We just need to win. If we do, we should be pleased; if not, we have every right to be very disappointed. Of course we won't win them all, but we have to win most of them, and we have to win most of them against very, very good teams. WE need to be one of those very good teams that other teams just can't quite beat most of the time. Right now we have lost two in a row, and that's bad.
Yeah, I know it's early. Just win. Until then, we SHOULD be very disappointed, and should not make excuses or downplay these losses.
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Heisman Winner [79423]
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Re: Clemson basketball: The time for excuses is over.
Jan 7, 2017, 5:31 PM
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It was since the seventies yet here we are
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Orange Blooded [4506]
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Checkers is a great game to take up.***
Jan 7, 2017, 5:39 PM
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Starter [384]
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Re: Clemson basketball: The time for excuses is over.
Jan 7, 2017, 5:33 PM
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Agreed, lost two in a row... we lose to tech we would be lucky to go to the NIT
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Ring of Honor [22335]
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Disappointed yes-need to be realistic to
Jan 7, 2017, 5:35 PM
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Beating top 20 teams on the road isn't easy for anyone. Now, if we lose at Tech, be mad. But we played really well and barely lost to a team on fire from three. Just get through January .500 in the league. Then we finally play some unranked teams
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Orange Immortal [65909]
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Of course it's not easy! And why do we have the mindset that
Jan 7, 2017, 5:54 PM
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it's unrealistic to expect to win games like this? And so what if we played well... we lost!
Will there ever be a point where we don't make excuses or try to find a way to downplay failures? Brownell is in his seventh year, for God's sake.
I hope Brownell gets us back on track and we start beating good teams, as we should expect to. I know it's early and we still have a good shot at the tourney. I just want Clemson basketball to get to a point where we don't need a steady stream of excuses and cerebral explanations and calls for patience.
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Ring of Honor [22335]
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How is it an excuse to play well and lose?
Jan 7, 2017, 5:57 PM
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Sometimes the other team is just better. They just drilled Louisville by 16 up there. They are really good. Playing well and losing to really good teams isn't an excuse, it just happens. Teams will be saying the same thing when they lose to us
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Paw Warrior [4620]
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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while i agree that this loss was frustrating...
Jan 7, 2017, 5:35 PM
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that's two pretty tough losses... UNC in OT, and @ ND in a game we probably should have won... always gotta remember there's another team playing who wants to win as bad as we do...
Based on the two losses, and how much better we look this year, I am inclined to hold judgement at this point, especially given how well we played in the OOC this year. That, in itself, was improvement.
Go win @ GT, then get UVA at home... and I feel really good about where we would be
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Ring of Honor [22335]
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At Tech is a huge game, a should win
Jan 7, 2017, 5:41 PM
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Neither NC or ND were should wins. Could wind, yes. Should wins, not even close
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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Whatever Coot! KJ Mcdaniels loss has killed us.
Jan 7, 2017, 5:41 PM
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Obviously I kid. We have had two close losses to top 25 teams. We are right there. If we don't make the tournament I agree with you. The excuses need to be done. That said, I still think we do make the tournament. It's going to be a good year.
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Heisman Winner [79423]
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Re: Whatever Coot! When in douby blame Jennings
Jan 7, 2017, 5:44 PM
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most here do for everything else.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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I realize the he is the basketball strength coach..
Jan 7, 2017, 5:47 PM
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but I still blame Batson for his loss.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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is not*****
Jan 7, 2017, 5:50 PM
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Heisman Winner [79423]
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Re: is not
Jan 7, 2017, 5:53 PM
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and so should we all. 
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Orange Immortal [65909]
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If we make the tourney, then yes, it's a good year.
Jan 7, 2017, 6:01 PM
[ in reply to Whatever Coot! KJ Mcdaniels loss has killed us. ] |
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It's not the grand prize, however, and I hope we don't fall into that trap. I just don't think it's unfair or unrealistic at all to expect us to BEAT top 25 teams instead of soft-pedaling losses to those teams. IF we are going to make the tourney, and if we are going to have a good team, we are going to have to beat a lot of good, top 25 teams, and sometimes even on the road!
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Ring of Honor [22335]
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Don't disagree, and we'll have plenty of chances
Jan 7, 2017, 6:21 PM
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Making the tourney again is the first step. Then doing it consistently and winning there. It's an uphill process for us as we've never done so. 3/4 straight years isn't consistently, especially when the coaches who led you there leave town.
Brad needs to make the tourney this year, or he seriously needs to be considered replaced. I think we make it. But we're going to be around .500 in the league doing so. A bunch of really good teams are going to be.
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Tiger Spirit [9674]
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I have always liked Brownell and haven't been a basher
Jan 7, 2017, 5:57 PM
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But he has the team and the shooters this year to make the tourney. Got to win some close games. No excuse for this team not to make the tourney this year and win at least a game or two.
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Rival Killer [2630]
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I gave a breakdown last week
Jan 7, 2017, 6:37 PM
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of things I was concerned with after watching them against 2 NC teams, included credentials, got flamed. You call a spade a spade and people just don't like it. It's the way it is.
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CU Medallion [20878]
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Brownell has brought a LOT of talent to this year's squad,
Jan 7, 2017, 6:56 PM
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IMO the most overall since a few of Rick Barnes' teams.
This season Brownell either gets exposed, or he himself turns a corner in game management and control. He's been lights out building a solid foundation for the program - we're loaded with a bright future in front of us, and there will be resources available to get our guy if it comes down to it considering what Brownell has put in place.
Support, yes. Jury out, yes still, but waning in its belief that he can coach finishes, and falling fast.
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National Champion [8096]
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hey that ND made like every BS three pointer they threw up
Jan 7, 2017, 7:00 PM
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We played pretty good on the road and if it weren't for their BS shooting we win. What can u do at that point?
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Paw Master [16836]
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Re: Clemson basketball: The time for excuses is over.
Jan 7, 2017, 7:09 PM
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If we had won one of our last two everything would be great. We did not.
There is still time but it needs to happen very soon!
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Hall of Famer [8264]
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Re: Clemson basketball: The time for excuses is over.
Jan 7, 2017, 7:15 PM
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too early to throw in the towel . For Brownlee it's tournament this year or bust. I reserve my judgment until March. No tournament in his seventh year it's time to go another direction
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Ring of Honor [22335]
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And I think most would be there as well
Jan 7, 2017, 7:23 PM
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Except those who would want to run him off if he went to the Final 4 who show up after every loss
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All-In [27366]
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I've been reading your basketball posts for years,
Jan 7, 2017, 7:23 PM
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and don't recall ever hearing you say something unreasonable.
But don't expect reason to resonate with everyone on here. They're called fans for a reason.
It took five years for most Tigers to get on board about Tommy.
It took about that long for Jack.
It's going to take at least one more year before most fans to see what I know you've seen for several years.
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Orange Immortal [65909]
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Thanks. I'l repeat what I've said about Brownell many times.
Jan 7, 2017, 10:10 PM
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I think he's a very knowledgeable basketball guy, maybe even brilliant. I think he fully understands his situation, why he hasn't been more successful at Clemson, and what it will take to have more success. I think he totally gets it, more so than you or I. I really, really like Brownell and I feel bad for him in that he hasn't been able to get it done (so far), and I really hope he somehow still does. Yet this is "his" basketball program, lock stock and barrel, and right or wrong, fair or unfair, he is inextricably tied to how it is perceived. My fear is that our program is perceived as mediocre by the media, fans, by players, and by recruits, and there is nothing short of winning big now that can change that. The longer he goes without winning big, the more ingrained that perception becomes and the more certainly we become mired in mediocrity, and the more difficult it becomes for him to recruit top players. I know recruiting has picked up gradually over the last few years, and he has done a great job with transfers, but I fear that it is too little, too late to resurrect the program. Making the dance this year is a bare minimum expectation. If not, it would be absurd to think he ever would, and misguided to place loyalty to Brownell above love for Clemson.
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CU Medallion [20878]
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Very fair post. +1***
Jan 7, 2017, 10:14 PM
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All-In [27366]
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Varsity [203]
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I don't think anyone is offering excuses are they?
Jan 7, 2017, 10:23 PM
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When the season is over then we will have enough information to decide what's next. Didn't really care for the Oklahoma loss, but I don't think there's any shame losing to UNC or Notre Dame on their court. Fact is, it's obvious we're a more complete team this year, and it most definitely appears (in spite of losing to some good teams) that we're good enough to make the tourney. That should be the goal. If that goal isn't achieved, regardless of the reason (or "excuses"), then it may be time to make a change. But that time is not today or tomorrow or any point during the season. Fact is, we're going to lose some games and likely some games we would expect to win, but it makes absolutely no sense moaning about stuff after every loss. This season is critical for Brad. He knows it. After this season, only then can we realistically evaluate the body of work.
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Orange Immortal [65909]
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I agree that it's way too early for any kind of decision
Jan 7, 2017, 11:01 PM
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whatsoever. Heck, we may finish strong and sail into the tourney (I hope we do). I also agree that we are a more balanced, more complete team. We agree on all of that. I just don't think we can have an honest discussion while ignoring the negatives, nor should we.
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Ring of Honor [22335]
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We have 4 losses this year, 3 to teams who will be in the top 15
Jan 7, 2017, 11:39 PM
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Do you think we're a top 15 team? I don't. I think we're a tourney team, but we're not a 4 seed in it.
Point being, how much of a negative is it to lose close games to teams that are better than you? Could have won all three, should have beat the holes.
Are we a great rebounding team? No. Have we had some poor possessions late in games? Yep.
It's clear what the negatives are for his tenure. Bad OOC records, middling recruiting, and only one tourney. But for this year, though its disappointing to lose close games to good teams, there hasn't been a whole lot of true negatives.
We'll see how it plays out. We make the tourney, the right progress has been made. And with the transfers and this latest recruiting class, a really good foundation is in place
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Orange Immortal [65909]
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I truly hope it plays out that way.***
Jan 8, 2017, 12:02 AM
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Ring of Honor [22335]
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I think most do, except for the ones
Jan 8, 2017, 12:11 AM
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we only see after a loss. It's the same with football. Baseball too. Some are trolls. Some have an agenda. But no true Clemson fan would not want the current coach in whatever sport to succeed. Basketball at Clemson is just the toughest job of them all.
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110%er [3821]
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wow... the control freaks run amok, don't they?
Jan 8, 2017, 1:16 AM
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why must we fire coaches every year?
when will "fans" learn their place?
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Mascot [29]
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Re: wow... the control freaks run amok, don't they?
Jan 8, 2017, 9:19 AM
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He was 10-8 last year in the league. This is the most talented team we have had. Why does everyone want to fire him. We don't even fill the arena for the UNC game. How many of you showed up for this game? Support the Basketball team.
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110%er [3821]
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these so-called "fans" just want to act like they're
Jan 8, 2017, 11:58 AM
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somebody,
walking around, talking big about firing a Coach
as if a dang one of them knows anything about basketball
or building a program.
These "fans" need to S*T*F*U, and quit acting like babies.
If they want to talk about the employment status then
put it in a letter to the AD or, better yet, go visit Danny Rad.
I'm sure Radakovich would love to chew on a couple of these a-holes for awhile....
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Paw Warrior [5098]
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Re: these so-called "fans" just want to act like they're
Jan 8, 2017, 2:29 PM
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I'm helping pay that 1.2 million salary so I'll say whatever I want....
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Game Day Hero [4164]
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i agree. Next thing you know we will be losing
Jan 8, 2017, 10:15 AM
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To pathetic programs like Duke, Virginia and heck fire, we may even lose to that lousy last place team Louisville!! It's time for BB to stop dragging down this historically excellent basketball program and take us back to the top, where we have always been.
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Orange Immortal [65909]
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I get your point....totally. But, I've never suggested that
Jan 8, 2017, 11:54 AM
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Brownell was dragging us down, or that we've historically been great in basketball. I am saying, however, that we have been better for short stretches, and we can be better than we traditionally have been and should expect to be, and not settle for mediocrity going forward. If Brownell gets its done, that's great; if not, then we have to move forward.
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110%er [3821]
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you start putting 9K in the stands every game, win or lose
Jan 8, 2017, 12:01 PM
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then the school will worry about "mediocrity".
Clemson Nation knows butkus about basketball
and needs to stop pumping up their ego by calling for the head of a Coach.
Geez - you'd think you idjits would have learned your lesson in 2010
when you all were calling for Dabo's job.
S*T*F*U
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CU Guru [1146]
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Re: you start putting 9K in the stands every game, win or lose
Jan 8, 2017, 12:04 PM
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> Clemson Nation knows butkus about basketball
>
> and needs to stop pumping up their ego by calling for
> the head of a Coach.
So true.
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Paw Warrior [5098]
TigerPulse: 61%
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Orange Immortal [65909]
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9K fans every game, win or lose?
Jan 8, 2017, 2:25 PM
[ in reply to you start putting 9K in the stands every game, win or lose ] |
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Hit don't work that away. Remember the last days under Frank Howard? Remember Hootie Ingram? Remember Ken Hatfield? I do. There has always been a correlation between on field/court success and attendance.
I hope Brownell gets it done. I'm not saying he can't (or he can); that is to be determined. Either he will, or he won't. I don't see why it's wrong or unreasonable to not only want, but to expect better than what we've seen in recent years from our basketball program, or to want or expect any changes that may be required to bring that about. I'm not calling for any of that yet; I'm just discussing the current state of the program and how the most recent games fit into the bigger picture.
For the record, I was never one who called for Dabo's job. I have supported and defended Dabo from day one, when clowns like Blue Caddy were consistently ripping him and TDP, saying it was a bad hire and that Dabo was in way over his head.
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Ring of Honor [22335]
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That is the reasonable position, held by most
Jan 8, 2017, 3:06 PM
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when JB returned, this became the year to turn it around. The facilities are finally in place. 7 years is ample time, especially with the talent we have.
We're in good shape. Now win the ones we should, beginning this Thursday, and pick off some of these many higher ranked teams.
Part of the process in football was beating who we should. Same with hoops. Have to be better than 9-15 before you can consistently compete with 1-8. And let's face it, in the ACC this year, it's 1-11. We're one of those 11
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Orange Immortal [65909]
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Thank you.
Jan 8, 2017, 3:31 PM
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And thanks for a civil discussion.
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110%er [3821]
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I reiterate my position - S*T*F*U*
Jan 9, 2017, 12:59 AM
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nm
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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Orange Blooded [2353]
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Basketball?
Jan 9, 2017, 5:32 AM
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Basketball? We're talking about basketball? Basketball?
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Starter [276]
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Re: Basketball?
Jan 12, 2017, 11:11 AM
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No. We're talking about PRACTICE
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Top TigerNet [30527]
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i like this post***
Jan 9, 2017, 1:11 PM
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Replies: 49
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50
