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Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now.
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Clemson Sports Icon [59314]
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Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now.
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Nov 27, 2023, 7:54 AM
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And one thing that jumped out to me was a throw Cade forced to Adam Randall down on about the 5 yardline. The play began on about the 33 to 35 yardline....On the play, Shipley drags across the middle about 3 yards past the line of scrimmage...Randall and crew go deep and clear EVERYTHING out on the right hand side of the field....Shipley is coming across from left to right, with #52 Stanton trailing him by three yards. BOYS....SHIPLEY WOULD HAVE HAVE 15 to 20 on that on a 7 or 8 yard throw...AND HE MAY HAVE SCORED WITH SOME DOWN FIELD BLOCKING. That is what has to be cleaned up to get this offense rolling. It was an easy pass that was not seen to try and make a HARD PASS....That play could have blown the doors off. JMHO!
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TigerNet Elite [69791]
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Cade has locked on to his primary receivers all year...
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Nov 27, 2023, 8:01 AM
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and in so doing he has missed some wide open outlets. He did the same a few times Saturday night.
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Paw Master [16994]
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Re: Cade has locked on to his primary receivers all year...
Nov 27, 2023, 8:06 AM
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He does it every game. I like him, but he needs much improvement in that area. He locks in on one receiver too often, and that's it.
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TigerNet Elite [69791]
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There was another play where Cade threw into double coverage for an incompletion
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Nov 27, 2023, 8:21 AM
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and he had Brown wide-@$$ open on the left sideline. If completed, it would have gone for a HUGE gain if not a TD.
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Playmaker [370]
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Ive personally been preaching this
Nov 28, 2023, 6:16 PM
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We don’t have a problem with receivers getting open. We have a pocket presence, buying time, lock-in, and panic issue from our developing QB.
The whole “separation” is lazy and a sign some guys are focused on the QB and assume guys aren’t open, but they aren’t paying attention to what’s happening in the opponents secondaries.
Hopefully Cade grows into the QB we need to compete for national championships.
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National Champion [7998]
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He's always very amped, almost panicky when he's on the field.
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Nov 27, 2023, 8:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: Cade has locked on to his primary receivers all year... ] |
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whenever he figures out how to cool down and be calm on the field is the moment that i'll be confident that he's finally at the point where he's able to analyze the field better. Watch him that first series he is barking calls and pointing and directing and i was just glad he didn't pass out. I get being hyped up and nervous but i think his play often reflects that demeanor. Alot of kneejerk throws and throwing it up for 50/50 balls. there are plays there but just needs to get to that measured place in his mind somehow let the game unfold like its supposed to. IT will come.
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Game Changer [1992]
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He needs to just sit down and watch Jalen Hurts
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Nov 27, 2023, 9:09 AM
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And his demeanor on the field. It’s almost too calm but he doesn’t let anything bother him
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Head Coach [957]
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Re: He needs to just sit down and watch Jalen Hurts
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Nov 27, 2023, 9:12 AM
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Jalen is a cool customer for sure. I was so impressed with how chill he was in every second of that thrilling Philly win last night. Deshaun was unflappable like that as well. Throw a big INT? Oh well… he’d shrug it off and played like it never happened. The true greats are able to flush bad events in a way that is uncanny.
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Game Changer [1697]
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National Champion [7998]
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never said I could do better.. if I could I wouldn't be in front of a computer
Nov 27, 2023, 1:50 PM
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i'm just saying thats the reason he's missing plays that could benefit him. He's got the nervous feet. Probably b/c the game is still really fast and hasn't slowed down. Meaning he doesn't have confidence yet in the game plan and his teammates. ONce he does I think he'll be really productive bc he's got a good arm and good accuracy. But his mind is racing 100 miles a second right now.
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Playmaker [370]
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All-In [10780]
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Re: Cade has locked on to his primary receivers all year...
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Nov 27, 2023, 4:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Cade has locked on to his primary receivers all year... ] |
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Much like Kelly Bryant used to do, couldn't see the whole field. My feeling is that is one of those talents you either have or you don't. It would have developed by now.
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Paw Warrior [4840]
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Re: Cade has locked on to his primary receivers all year...
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Nov 27, 2023, 4:29 PM
[ in reply to Cade has locked on to his primary receivers all year... ] |
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I love Cade also and hope he makes a Giant leap in the off season but imho I’d bring in a portal QB and have Vizzina, CK, and portal guy compete. Competition makes everyone better and if Cade looses and transfers then so be it. With the two frosh WR we have coming in and hopefully a healthy A. Williams, T. Brown, and C. Turner we should have a WR room good enough to make a run to the playoffs again. That being said we have to have the QB to engage that talent. Not saying Cade ain’t it but I’m saying he’s not it this year and would need to improve big time.
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Clemson Icon [24064]
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Hopefully film study all off season helps Cade mature
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Nov 27, 2023, 8:02 AM
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Not everyone is a Freshman DW4 or TL16. TB10 was a REDSHIRT Sophomore before he CLICKED. In fact he has in his 3rd game that year ,down 14 to zip to Auburn.
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1st Rounder [633]
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Re: Hopefully film study all off season helps Cade mature
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Nov 27, 2023, 10:21 AM
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He's had 2 full years in a program and has started double digit games. If it hasn't happened by now, it isn't going to happen unless we get a new coaching staff.
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Legend [6780]
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Re: Hopefully film study all off season helps Cade mature
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Nov 27, 2023, 1:38 PM
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You said “we” - hahaha
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Clemson Icon [24064]
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No ,he's had 1 year in this offense
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Nov 27, 2023, 7:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hopefully film study all off season helps Cade mature ] |
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as has EVERYONE else.
The Offense he studied while a Senior in HS and a Freshman in College no longer exists. As I said , not everyone comes in as a DW4 or TL16 freshman, both of which has 1-2 years with the Playbook BEFORE they arrived on Campus.
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Playmaker [370]
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Solid Orange [1389]
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Clemson Sports Icon [59314]
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SSN-Tiger..can you look at that play and tell me what you think....***
Nov 27, 2023, 8:08 AM
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All-In [11092]
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Since I have not seen the replay of the game
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Nov 27, 2023, 8:15 AM
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I remember that play not for Cade's failure but Randall's. With the sideline post the correct throw was a back shoulder pass, which Cade threw perfectly. Randall, did not stop for the back shoulder which would have been an easy completion and a first down, but no TD possibility.
Your point to Cade's decision making is spot-on. He has all the physical tools and can make all the throws. He needs to do the mental things well.
As far as the WR's go, I can't imagine Tyler Grisham being back next year, especially with Jeff Scott available.
Message was edited by: revmarkg®
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Clemson Sports Icon [59314]
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I agree with you on that. Cade put it in the right spot. Our receivers just do
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Nov 27, 2023, 8:24 AM
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not track the ball very well, or they just are not on the same page....We had a guy like that a long time ago, Kelvin Grant....he just could not adjust to a deep ball...
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Orange Blooded [2177]
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Re: Since I have not seen the replay of the game
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Nov 27, 2023, 8:38 AM
[ in reply to Since I have not seen the replay of the game ] |
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Same on the Brinningstool pass play as well. Back shoulder and bad hips/positioning with a correct throw. That said, yes Cade is still seeing the game at 100 mph. Good news is that’s down from 200 so there’s hope.
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Solid Orange [1305]
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Re: Since I have not seen the replay of the game
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Nov 27, 2023, 9:47 AM
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Unlike you, I'm not seeing the improvement. He looks like me when I was young trying to play basketball...a frenetic mess.
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Clemson Conqueror [11350]
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Same here - haven't watched a replay - but that was a good pass to AR
Nov 27, 2023, 9:52 AM
[ in reply to Since I have not seen the replay of the game ] |
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He should/could have easily adjusted to it - but didn't. I didn't notice (in real time) who else was open...
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Game Day Hero [4346]
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Re: Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now.
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Nov 27, 2023, 8:19 AM
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Have to agree that the offense feels like such a struggle because they are missing the layups when they presented. It’s more difficult to see on tv because the camera follows the ball so in a way we zoom on in what Cade decided to do vs. what other options existed. Unfortunately, we don’t know fully the intent of a specific play so maybe they aren’t always a misread. However, the body of evidence from all the games says that Cade is not reading the field well and needs to improve at involving the open /better options. He can do that, but it also helps if the Oline protects better and receivers/RBs do their jobs with fewer execution errors.
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Orange Immortal [65513]
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Agreed!
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Nov 27, 2023, 8:25 AM
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Sometimes I think he sees the easy throw, but has confidence that he can force the difficult throw. But I agree he's got a lot of work to do in that area.
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All-American [567]
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Re: Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now.
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Nov 27, 2023, 8:37 AM
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I saw it Saturday night when they showed the replay of the play. Couldn't believe it. WIDE OPEN. We've heard how great Cade is (from Dabo), but he has a ways to go. He throws off his back foot, alot. Should have had another interception Saturday night (gamecock dropped it right in his hands). Cade needs alot of coaching before next year. I hope he gets it.
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Varsity [127]
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Re: Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now.
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Nov 27, 2023, 9:35 AM
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I expect Klubnik to improve in the off season. But, we need a 10X improvement in receivers. They are dropping too many balls. When they start catching more balls, Klubnik will look MUCH better.
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Playmaker [370]
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Exactly the opposite***
Nov 28, 2023, 6:21 PM
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Game Changer [1643]
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Re: Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now.
Nov 27, 2023, 9:39 AM
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I saw that live as well.. was yelling Shipley soon as he crossed but Cade slung it deep. Hopefully the bowl practices he will continue to progress and hopefully take a little air out of some of those deep shots
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Game Day Hero [4148]
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Re: Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now.
Nov 27, 2023, 10:01 AM
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That play plus the corner route to T Brown in the endzone corner who was covered by a much taller DB was also a W T F. He needs some very specialized training in the off season.
Message was edited by: BerlinSPY73®
Message was edited by: BerlinSPY73®
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Standout [340]
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I think the biggest issue is that the play was 3rd and 4
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Nov 27, 2023, 10:48 AM
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IIRC. Pretty sure we’re talking about the same play.
Whoever decided to go deep sideline , back shoulder or not, is the one who made the mistake. Up less than 10, late game, driving, you need points there, and the missed opportunity caused a longer FG than needed.
Now Dabo and Co. over the years have typically loved the deep sideline. I could care less. Someone has to come off that receiver in that circumstance.
If nothing else, tuck it and get 3 to shorten the 4th down decision.
Good pickup Spud.
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Top TigerNet [32926]
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Re: Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now.
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Nov 27, 2023, 12:24 PM
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: Cade has zero pocket presence. He just doesn't see the field well and seems to "lock on" to his primary receiver.
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Paw Warrior [4797]
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Re: Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now.
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Nov 27, 2023, 1:34 PM
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Spud that's the same throw Watson and Lawerence were celebrated for, if Randall positions himself correctly(ie looks outside) that's a catch, it was a perfect ball. The back shoulder fade was there I wouldn't knock Cade for taking that shot, that's a primary read if it's there you let it rip. Other wise you become a checkdown Charlie and that's not always going to work.
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Standout [340]
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I'm going to have to disagree Spud, because it's already been proven to be wrong
Nov 27, 2023, 3:54 PM
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TNET News today showed that Clemson's Offense was Top Ten in Time-of-Possession this year, and not far behind in Offensive First Downs (18th). This was significantly different than the previous two years, and was a key reason our Defense stayed fresh all season and in late games.
The one notable exception where we allowed the other team to invert this was at Miami. They had something like 21 minutes of Possession in the 2nd half, and ended up running the ball down our throats for the winning scores in the 4th quarter. While fatigue wasn't the only issue there, by far, it was an issue.
So the key for Cade on Saturday would not have been to worry about how some observer "critiques" his passing style, but instead to go with the best option, percentage wise, of making the down marker.
If Mike Williams or Tee Higgins or a healthy Justyn Ross were still available, the sideline throw might have been the play. But that's still a 30-yard throw, and percentages drop with every yard. Unfortunately as well, Randall, and virtually all the other receivers have shown themselves to be poor percentage plays "downfield". And you can't make the First Down if you don't catch the ball - hero throw or not.
Up 6 (less than 1 score) late in an Away game, making First Down should have been the only thought for the Offensive Staff. Thus the preferred throw would've been to go to Shipley if he had any separation, and let him try to make the yardage. With 3rd and 4, Cade should have had decent opportunity to simply run for the 1st Down as well.
So in general, I don't like the play call at all unless those routes had Shipley ISO'd on backer that they thought was a matchup in our favor. But the call wasn't a surprise, as Dabo & Co. have lived and died on the Sideline throw over the years. Unfortunately, it has generally failed over the last three years, and thus our poor Offensive ratings. It failed again Saturday night - as the percentages suggested.
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Clemson Sports Icon [59314]
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I agree, he threw it fine. But, we don't have ANYONE that has shown they can
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Nov 28, 2023, 5:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now. ] |
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make that catch downfield. The toss to Shipley would have gotten the ball to almost the same spot,Shipley would just have had to run it down there...which he could have done with all that open grass in front of him. Someone asked before the game,if you could bring back one player for the matchup,who would it be. Without a doubt....MIKE WILLIAMS. If Mike was the receiver on the INT...that is a TD. No way the Coot takes it from Mike. I doubt he would even get his hands on it. Same thing on the one to AR. Mike makes that play. That is what we are missing. Until we get it, we need to take the layups.
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Letterman [175]
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Re: Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now.
Nov 27, 2023, 1:53 PM
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Another thing I notice about Cade is he always seems to try to escape the pocket horizontally rather than moving up in the pocket. Some of those DEs are almost as fast as he is and it is very difficult to escape them and find a receiver at the same time. Rattler, on the other hand, does try to move up in the pocket well unless the rush is straight up the middle.
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Athletic Dir [1197]
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Re: Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now.
Nov 27, 2023, 7:00 PM
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He absolutely needs a QB whisperer. Preferably David Cutcliff but maybe even Rick Stockstill could help.
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Rival Killer [2712]
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Re: Boys, if you are like me, you've watched the replay a couple of times by now.
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Nov 28, 2023, 6:07 PM
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I remember seeing that live and told my son that we had missed a big play.
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Replies: 39
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