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Head Coach [790]
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Mickey Conn
Jan 13, 2021, 1:02 PM
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I know we have spent a lot of time talking about the OLine, but the article today grading our Safeties, has brought out the fact that since Conn has taken them on, they have steadily gotten worse (i had forgotten the defensive backfield was top-16 from 2012-2017....now we are in the 40s and getting worse)
Mickey is Dabo's buddy from Grayson, but is it time to re-evaluate what we do? I think our defensive backs are still really good, but safety play has been dire at best.
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CU Medallion [18206]
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We have a huge gap if you look at the scholarship breakdown,
Jan 13, 2021, 1:04 PM
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it appears as though Streeter didn't sign a quality S(who stayed at S) for a couple of years
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: We have a huge gap if you look at the scholarship breakdown,
Jan 13, 2021, 1:21 PM
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Why is Streeter responsible for that? I know we have a bit of a wonky recruiting responsibility matrix, but surely BV would be all over this?
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Heisman Winner [79503]
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Re: We have a huge gap if you look at the scholarship breakdown,
Jan 13, 2021, 1:30 PM
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He wants to make sure his QBs can complete the long bombs in practice, obviously.
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Gridiron Giant [15440]
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Gridiron Giant [15162]
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Game Changer [1963]
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Re: We have a huge gap if you look at the scholarship breakdown,
Jan 14, 2021, 3:40 PM
[ in reply to We have a huge gap if you look at the scholarship breakdown, ] |
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We seem to oversign skill position - offense. QB room couldn’t hold them all. RB room this year and in the past was busting at seems. WR abundant. Not sure we have that anywhere else on field. Not giving coaches a tough time. Bored and sitting in waiting room. Love our coaches and staff.
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Dynasty Maker [3150]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 13, 2021, 1:08 PM
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I'm really hoping RJ Mickens, the number 1 safety out of Texas in the 2020 class, can really step up. Turner and Zanders aren't athletic enough to deal with teams with elite WRs.
As for Conn, I think that if we don't get better safety play this season Dabo will have to make a tough decision.
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110%er [3670]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 13, 2021, 1:28 PM
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I have seen countless times our Defensive backs as a whole dont turn their head around to look for the ball. Basic fundamentals. Starts with coaching. Reed and Conn.
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Orange Phenom [14614]
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You will see the same thing watching virtually any CFB
Jan 13, 2021, 3:20 PM
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team. Generally speaking, the really gifted, NFL-quality DBs are able to do this, and the majority of the rest (which is most of them) aren't.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 13, 2021, 1:33 PM
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Since you said you read the article I'm guessing you read the part that said we had the #4 pass defense in the country in 2019 (under Conn & Reed) and lost 4 back end players to the NFL with 2 of them being 1st round picks?
I'm sure you read that part.
Since you decided to stop at 2017, I'm guessing you also read that our pass defense was ranked #24 in 2018 with Conn & Reed coaching that dominated "the best offense in the history of the world" up to that point.
Did you also realize that in our 2 losses this season we had a starting safety miss at least half of the game in each?
No, 2020 was not our best group of safeties recently, but "dire" is the wrong word to describe our situation at safety.
Is safety the new OL in terms of people just spouting stuff in disgust and trying to place all of the blame in 1 spot?
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Ultimate Tiger [33256]
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Inserting a mic drop thingy right here might be appropriate***
Jan 13, 2021, 1:39 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
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Re: Inserting a mic drop thingy right here might be appropriate***
Jan 13, 2021, 1:59 PM
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I don't have the tech savviness to insert a gif.
But if I did, I would insert the minion one for sure!
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101582]
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Here you go...
Jan 13, 2021, 2:03 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
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Re: Here you go...
Jan 13, 2021, 2:20 PM
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Perfect!
I knew somebody would come through!
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Ultimate Tiger [33256]
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Now THIS is the kinda place TNet used to be . . . BUT NOW...
Jan 13, 2021, 2:53 PM
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"Ohhhhh - I see the minion is a Trumpeter due his kingly clothing and air of superiority"
or
"Look at the thickness of those glasses - gotta be another #######".
Thanks fellas for a throwback Thursday on HUMP DAY . . . . nice ! ! !
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Heisman Winner [79503]
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 13, 2021, 1:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mickey Conn ] |
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No, the OL is still on the hot seat.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 13, 2021, 1:49 PM
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touche haha
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TigerNet Immortal [174386]
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awesome response backed with facts!!***
Jan 13, 2021, 2:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mickey Conn ] |
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null
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Orange Blooded [2135]
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 13, 2021, 2:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mickey Conn ] |
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This place is hilarious after a loss. They want to fire the coaches that have had top 25 pass defenses every year except one and the OC of a top ten offense every year. I'll add that Turner was the highest rated safety of any playoff team. Safeties are going to get beat from time to time especially if they get matched up against no 1 receivers.
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 13, 2021, 2:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mickey Conn ] |
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Passing yards per game and Rushing Yards per game
2013 - 46 @ 223.8 yd/game
2014 - 4 @ 167.4 yd/game
2015 - 10 @ 183.9 yd/game
2016 - 17 @ 191.0 yd/game
2017 - 7 @ 169.6 yd/game
2018 - 29 @ 199.9 yd/game
2019 - 5 @ 176.2 yd/game
2020 - 62 @ 226.7 yd/game
First, don't confuse the issue with "2 1st round draft picks" as Isiah was a LB, not a Safety. Conn doesn't coach LBs.
Second, don't give me the "we had a starting safety miss..." excuse. What are we Ohio State? And why did Turner miss the game the semi final game? Targeting on a stupid play? Yep
Yes the 2019 squad had 2 players drafted AJ and K'Von in the 1st and 4th rounds, but the 2015 squad had 3 players drafted (Mac, TJ and Jayron) and we went from 10th to 17th.
Finally, in August Dabo said "it's a very deep group and is expecting to have his most flexible secondary to date" https://www.si.com/college/clemson/football/clemson-dabo-swinney-excited-about-secondary-depth
So cool ... guess you're ok with it and that's good. But if the "Best is Standard" you can take your kool-aide somewhere else friend
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Orange Immortal [63561]
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 13, 2021, 3:14 PM
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I'm no expert, far from it on the x and o's but a lot of 2020 stats are skewed because of Dabo's philosophy. 23 different starters on defense. We mixed and matched frequently. We did struggle a bit with tempo games but imo that's due more to lack of depth and experience.
These other years you reference, we had an NFL line and stud linebacker core. I'd venture to say that skewed the numbers too. We went through a tough recruiting period 18 and 19. Guys quit to go Hollywood, bust on belk, transfer mcmicheal, and then covid year.
Don't think these guys are kool aiders.
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Orange Phenom [14614]
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Yards per game is a stupid way to measure a pass defense
Jan 13, 2021, 3:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mickey Conn ] |
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There's so much context missing there. For starters, how many pass attempts did the opposition average in each of those seasons?
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Orange Blooded [2135]
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 13, 2021, 4:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mickey Conn ] |
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Clemson was ranked 41 in passing yards per game not 62 and yes missing starters and having young players hurts a teams production. I guess Alabama should fire their defensive coaches too. They were ranked 71 in passing defense and gave up 15 more yards per game
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Letterman [263]
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 13, 2021, 3:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mickey Conn ] |
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Fantastic rebuttal. I certainly think that criticism is fair and warranted when play is not up to standard, but the scorched earth view and chanting for heads to roll seems a little over the top considering how successful our coaches and program have been the last several years.
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Orange Immortal [62866]
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 14, 2021, 8:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: Mickey Conn ] |
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Well said, and the sky isn't falling with our FB program, maybe it is with people that are always looking for a reason to complain about something, just anything!!!!
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Game Day Hero [4534]
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 14, 2021, 4:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mickey Conn ] |
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Also, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt Turner and All American? Also Muse? I think Wallace made All ACC and was drafted. That's not too shabby especially with very little pass rush the last two years which does impact DBs significantly. But to go old school: Fire Batson!
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TigerNet Elite [69814]
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We missed on a couple of big Safety targets...
Jan 13, 2021, 1:44 PM
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to replace the guys who left for the NFL. I think that's the bigger issue rather than coaching.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
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Re: We missed on a couple of big Safety targets...
Jan 13, 2021, 1:56 PM
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Safety and offensive line were the last two position groups that our program made the jump to recruiting at the same level as the elite teams.
In both position groups, the first year or two we tried to jump up to a higher level of recruit we missed on some big names as you said.
The small OL classes for a couple of years were the result of deciding we would no longer settle for picking up project guys late to fill all of our spots, and it made it clear we were committed to improving our overall talent in the group.
We haven't taken quite the same "line in the sand" approach at safety but we are certainly chasing bigger fish now.
The misses in the first couple of years of that strategy left us with no players between a veteran Turner and a lot of 1st and 2nd year players who were still trying to figure out what to do on the field.
Mickens, Makuba, and the idea of sending Carter to safety seem to indicate that we are making headway with at least signing the guys that are very highly thought of.
Now we just have to hope those players can perform at the level expected of them when they left high school.
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Orange Immortal [63561]
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Re: We missed on a couple of big Safety targets...
Jan 13, 2021, 2:58 PM
[ in reply to We missed on a couple of big Safety targets... ] |
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Great that we have Nolan and I have high hopes that Charleston will make big jump in the off-season... He seems to be a hard working kid.
Just win the first one baby! All I pray for.
Then what I'd do would throw Mickens and the others in the next two games in the first half rotation. Yes/no? Who cares if carolina and Conn score 17-24 points. With the experience DJU got this yr, I'd do the same with ol and QB.
Btw - nice Mic drop guys.
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110%er [6166]
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There is absolutely nothing “dire” about
Jan 13, 2021, 3:14 PM
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any individual player, position group, or coach within the Clemson football program.
The term “dire” is such hyperbole. It does not apply in 2021.
Dire is when you have a starting LT who was a walk-on and when he goes down with an injury, absolutely no one can protect Tajik Boyd’s blind side.
When Phillip Price got hurt and we had no viable replacement, that was “dire” ...
Our safety situation is not “dire”!
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Gridiron Giant [15162]
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Re: Mickey Conn
Jan 14, 2021, 8:16 AM
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ALL YOU CONN HATERS BETTER BUCKLE UP BECAUSE IF COACH V LEAVES HE IS THE NEXT D COORDINATOR. BANK THAT.
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All-In [34487]
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Yes, that's what I'm reading.
Jan 14, 2021, 8:31 AM
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Visceral hate!
Drama queen.
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All-In [10856]
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Our secondary coaching was anything but good last year
Jan 14, 2021, 4:18 PM
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We were really inconsistent this season. Good game / bad game. When we faced guys that matched our speed we looked really bad. Our corners were relying on recovery speed
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Replies: 33
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