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Replies: 23
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Game Changer [2045]
TigerPulse: 59%
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Golden Retrievers
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Dec 17, 2024, 12:35 AM
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Thought I’d take a last ditch effort to see if anyone on the board currently has goldens or has had one. We have a dark golden that’s 9 months old and as we don’t have kids he’s our baby, and he’s gotten a bad habit of resource guarding and our traditional training on him isn’t work. He gets items he shouldn’t and gets reactive, aggressive, and throws fits if we try to take it back. As we’re in the upstate for Christmas he had an episode last night. It scared my parents to death into thinking we are terrible dog owners, and getting conflicting answers on how to properly handle the guarding. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Orange Elite [5154]
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My last Golden was like that when he was young
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Dec 17, 2024, 1:28 AM
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Got him as a rescue at 1 and thought he may have been mistreated. He would growl and snarl every time you got near him when he had something, especially treats. I just continued to show love and talk to him and would show him that only good happened when I was around and he needn't be scared or nervous. He eventually grew out of it after a couple years.
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TigerNet Immortal [175026]
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Last one I had, I read and used Water Dog as a guide. It may help some.***
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Dec 17, 2024, 6:35 AM
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Game Changer [2045]
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Heisman Winner [81698]
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Re: Golden Retrievers
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Dec 17, 2024, 7:04 AM
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Beautiful dogs butt also hardheaded and stubborn. Takes time and a special love to get through to one of them. Don't give up, the reward will be well worth it. They are puppies for 2 years, good luck!!
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Asst Coach [821]
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Re: Golden Retrievers
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Dec 17, 2024, 7:10 AM
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I’ve trained a few pointers and labs but no golden and never had this problem. However, one of the keys I found is incrementalism.
Maybe try approaching him within 3’ when he has something, then go away and come back to 2’, then away and back to 1’, then come back and touch it, then come back and touch it longer, etc. until you can take it away.
If you can convince him that giving up what he has results in getting something else that he wants, that might work too.
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Game Changer [2045]
TigerPulse: 59%
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Re: Golden Retrievers
Dec 17, 2024, 7:05 PM
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Doesn’t help that my parents are old school and dad says dogs only understand who the dominant alpha one is and if you don’t step up they’ll try to be the alpha and never respect you. He thinks when my dog is guarding and in snarling attack mode I’m supposed to get on top of him and smack the #### out of him so he knows I’m the alpha and do it as many times as you need to until he never does it again and he obeys your every command. Doesn’t understand the consequences of that and for guarding how that can make it worse. He thinks the trading the bad item for good is only the dog training you and that it’s the same thing as “woke pussification of society” that we can’t use any form of aggression that we must be fragile and can’t hurt or offend anything.
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1st Rounder [653]
TigerPulse: 89%
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Re: Golden Retrievers
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Dec 17, 2024, 7:18 PM
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Hate to tell you but if you have the opposite approach and think you're going to change his behavior with only positive reinforcement then you may have bigger problems. I'm not saying the "Alpha Dog" approach is correct but he is at an age where he is testing to see who is in charge and he needs to be corrected rather than treated as the "baby" of the house.
I've been there and done that with 100 lbs+ Rottie at that age, and positive reinforcement only is a bad approach. You need to correct the behavior as soon as it happens and be consistent, pinch collars are a great tool if used correctly.
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Game Changer [2045]
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Re: Golden Retrievers
Dec 17, 2024, 8:32 PM
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What do you suggest? I tried the get on top of him and pop him method but he only threw me right off. He’s 75 pounds right now.
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1st Rounder [653]
TigerPulse: 89%
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Re: Golden Retrievers
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Dec 17, 2024, 10:20 PM
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This will be long but hopefully helps you out...
I got my Rottie (Dre) as a junior at Clemson 15 year ago, my roommate at the time had an 8mo old black lab. They got along great an did everything together, never had an issue with them both being intact males until Dre was around 7mo old and almost as big as the lab (Beau). Both of them had a chew treat, Beau finished his first and came over to take Dre's, Dre didn't appreciate that (understandably) and snapped at Beau aggressively. I told Dre "no" and tapped him on the butt and he turned an snapped toward me. That was the first and last time we ever had an issue...
He was around 80lbs at the time, I grabbed him, put him on his back, and put my arm right in his face while he was still growling and set there on top of him staring him down until he calmed down. I didn't hit him or abuse him in any way, just let him know that growling/snapping over a treat or anything else wasn't going to get him his way and wasn't allowed. If he has actually bitten me when I presented my arm we would have a bigger problem, but I'm willing to bet your dog is acting out the same way Dre did, he doesn't want to actually bite, he just wants to get his way.
My advice is to take away any of the things he tries to guard, treats/toys/blankets/etc get put out of reach until he can show that he knows how to release on command. Find his favorite toy and use it when working with him. When I said I don't believe positive reinforcement can fix this I didn't mean that it shouldn't be used at all... you need to teach him a release/drop command and he needs to know what that means before you use any disciplinary action.
Teach him how to release on command and give him a treat immediately when he obeys (you can find plenty of videos of how to teach this on youtube with positive reinforcement). Use a clicker along with the treats if you want but be consistent and take your time. Once he understands the release command stop giving rewards for half assed or delayed release, it should be instant with no argument when you go to pick it up.
After he 100% understands what the release command means, then you can start discipling him for disobedience. I would recommend getting a Herm Sprenger training/pinch/bite collar. DO NOT use it as a choke collar, corrections should be a quick/swift jerk on the lead. Start by walking him on lead with the collar and leash to teach him how the collar works. Walking back in forth with direction changes is a good start, if he doesn't heal then give the lead a quick pop just before the lead goes tight. I haven't seen a dog that doesn't catch on within a few minutes if done correctly.
If he has learned "release" and is still guarding and lashing out, and understands how the training collar works, then start using it when he doesn't properly release on command. One quick pop of the lead, if he doesn't release then give the command again and pop a little harder if he is still being stubborn.
This is in no way abusive if you follow the steps in order. Again, he needs to first needs to learn the release command and demonstrate that he understands what is expected. He also needs to learn how the collar works by using it during walks. If it gets to the point where you are using the collar to disciple him for guarding then you can be sure he knows he is being willfully disobedient and a correction is warranted.
PS: Attached is a photo of my baby Dre, he passed away a few years ago just shy of 12yrs old. He was great around kids, loved meeting new people, and was spoiled rotten. He also wanted to test me at around 7-10mo of age and took a good bit of work to get him to a point that I could trust him to obey in any situation. Every walk we went on he wore his training collar, I can count on one hand the number of times I used for a stern correction after the age of 2.
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Game Changer [2045]
TigerPulse: 59%
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Re: Golden Retrievers
Dec 17, 2024, 10:35 PM
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So basically try to pin him down and get him to calm down so he understands that the snarling and growling and teeth showing and barking isn’t going to get him anywhere.
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1st Rounder [653]
TigerPulse: 89%
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Re: Golden Retrievers
Dec 17, 2024, 11:16 PM
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No, that's just what I did the first time we had a real issue in the moment. Work with the dog and teach him how to behave.
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Solid Orange [1392]
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Re: Golden Retrievers
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Dec 20, 2024, 6:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Golden Retrievers ] |
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Uneducated #######. Don't act like you have a clue about dog training redneck.
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Solid Orange [1392]
TigerPulse: 84%
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Re: Golden Retrievers
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Dec 20, 2024, 7:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Golden Retrievers ] |
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Your dad is stupid. That is absolutely not how to work with dogs. That's how you make a dog that's overly aggressive, especially with those it considers below it. I am a very experienced dog trainer. I've got a German Shepherd now, which tend to be much more difficult dog than goldens, but have also had rottweilers, northern breeds (huskies and malamutes), and worked with wolves at a rescue.
Once again, your dad is an idiot (as is the redneck replying to you), and it will not improve the situation. First, the idea of an "alpha" in dogs is a myth. The man who published those findings with wolves eventually took it back because it was so wrong. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-alpha-wolf-idea-a-myth/ You're not showing the dog you're the alpha. You're showing them that you'll hurt them if you want something they own because you're stronger than they are. Your dad's stupid approach might make the dog scared of you, but it also increases almost all of the actual causes of guarding and can make the situation worse with anyone the dog isn't scared of. I've also noticed a lot of stupid rednecks with hit a dog for growling. That growl is very important, because it's a warning sign that you're upsetting them. Their next move is to bite. You want that growl in place.
Guarding is extremely common in dogs that were either (a) abused or (b) not raised with littermates/taken away too soon. It can also be a sign of stress (like having strangers in the home, like your parents) or underlying health issues. Finally, it can be a sign that you screwed up in the past. Maybe you took something from them and they let you have it, but they never got it back or something else. That's reinforcement teaching them not to let you have it.
Now, the ideal approach is to work with them when they're puppies, so they get used to having you around whatever resource they think is valuable. But now that it's older, you really do need to use positive reinforcement. It's not your dog "training you" nor is it "trading." It's teaching your dog that if they let you near and even touch/pick up their resource, very good things will happen. If they let you near their food/toys without snapping and being aggressive, they get rewarded. That's even how to teach children.
Now, I don't know how far away you have to be before your dog gets aggressive. But start outside that range. Come there, give them a nice treat and praise, then leave. Later on, come back and do it, just closer. This is called "distance threshold" in dog training. If at any time they growl or snap or do anything, then you leave, but they don't get any treat. Also, make sure the treat you're giving them is better than what they actually have. You're teaching them that they get rewarded for being good. And unlike violence, this is something that works with all potential people coming near your dog, not just you.
There are tons of great sites explaining how to work with dogs that exhibit guarding behaviors. You will see all of them agree with what I'm saying, and none of them what your dad or what tigerfan525 says. Here's a particularly good link. https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/dog-care/common-dog-behavior-issues/food-guarding
If you have specific issues, you can feel free to always message me.
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Clemson Icon [27578]
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Re: Golden Retrievers
Dec 17, 2024, 7:08 PM
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I had one and he was a great dog. He wasn't every obedient, but was loving and was a fun dog.
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Game Changer [1730]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Golden Retrievers
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Dec 17, 2024, 10:54 PM
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I’ve had some stubborn pups over the years. The first key is consistency, even after you think you’ve broken a habit you always have to keep up whatever you’re doing. Doesn’t mean it has to be as intense as what you use to break it but the discipline (on your part) has to be there and let them know it’s not an ok behavior to sneak back in.
Now for yours it sounds like the resource gaurding with snarling and scaring people has been around for a minute, but the pup is only 9 months so plenty of time to fix it. For my dogs I always have a waterproof e-collar with the intensity dial on the remote, not the collar. When you use it always work in this cadence if they’re misbehaving
1. Firm but calm verbal correction, stare them in the eye when you say it (even if they’re looking away) , do this from a “normal” position for you, standing, sitting, etc
2. If that doesn’t work, firmly but calmly repeat the command and with the dial on the e-collar to tone (just makes a beeping sound) press the button to generate the tone
3. Once you get here, repeat step 2 in actual short, single shocks at a higher intensity levels until they correct the behavior.
Step 3 is tough to get used to, but what I’ve found with my dogs is after very few times of going into step 3 they’ll start to quickly correct with just the beep, then just the verbal command.
Its tough to discipline dogs sometimes, but resource gaurding needs to get nipped in the bud quickly before you end up with animal control seizing your dog because they bit someone who didn’t understand their tics.
Again the number one rule is consistency, and a close second is giving commands in a calm, firm manner letting them know you’re in charge (even if it doesn’t feel that way!)
This is the brand I like, great customer service and good battery life. I like to let my dogs hike off leash and also
use it on them when upland bird hunting in case they get a little too curious or too far ahead
https://www.sportdog.com/now-on-sale/?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADCdkjwnCv2ZkIiXfV1YK7Q7S7_Gi&gclid=CjwKCAiA34S7BhAtEiwACZzv4YtvGCFAT1aRr28155-8JjWn28TsmW5grjJKzMsL-rz3sGxuOLoZVRoCh4UQAvD_BwE
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Game Changer [2045]
TigerPulse: 59%
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Re: Golden Retrievers
Dec 17, 2024, 11:35 PM
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So this is what he typically does. Grabs an item, won’t give it back and just looks at you. If you approach he is stiff, snarls, growls, and barks, if you get too close he lunges out. Heres an example. He had a flip flop and we were trying to take it from him.
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Game Changer [1730]
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Re: Golden Retrievers
Dec 18, 2024, 10:01 AM
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The videos won’t load for me (I never have good luck with attachments). Pups have lots of energy, working breeds like goldens even more so. He needs lots of exercise or he’ll revert to destructive/combative behavior like this to get his energy out. But I still think an e collar would work for this specific behavior. Play growling is one thing but what you’re describing is a little beyond that IMO. Like I said it doesn’t take long and you’re not going to be zapping them all the time. After a few times he’ll put two and two together. And when you speak to the dog to give the verbal command make sure to use consistent, very simple commands like “drop”, don’t try and talk in sentences he’ll just get confused.
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TigerNet Immortal [176660]
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You need to step up and be more of an alpha and less of a beta.
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Dec 17, 2024, 10:56 PM
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Start by peeing on him.
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Game Changer [2045]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Golden Retrievers
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Dec 17, 2024, 11:11 PM
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Don’t ever “try” to take something “back” from your dog. Get in there and get it. If you need to buy a chain link glove because you’re afraid it will bite you then get one.
Stop pretending this dog understands the English language. Stop talking to it like it can understand you want it to behave the way you want it to.
If you’re being manhandled by a 70 pound dog you need to do some reconnaissance in the manhood arena.
If memory serves me correct, you are one of the posters that say our football team needs to be more physical and man up against the opponent.
Think of this dog as your opponent right now, not your friend. Man up and be more physical. Not abusive though.
When you finally take it away from the dog, be sure to have some treats handy to reward. Then give the object back to the dog and hold up the treat and say “give”. Take the object back from him and give a treat. Repeat until he willingly gives up the object.
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Campus Hero [13654]
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Re: Golden Retrievers
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Dec 17, 2024, 11:14 PM
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Passive aggressive dogs are the ones that hurt people especially little kids.
5 things:
1. Make sure dog gets 30-45min exercise daily.
2. Never give the dog a toy, treat or food when its in an excited state. Dog has to be calm before it is rewarded, that includes praise.
3. Take the dog out of its safe places like outside before you give a toy or food where you could likely remove the object easier.
4. Any sign of aggression has to be corrected immediately and that includes even a lip quiver. That is towards any humans or other animals. Making dog sit , laydown, then putting the dog on its side until it relaxes 100% even if it takes 10min. Dog has to know its boundaries.
5. You may need to leash train dog even in the house so you can correct behavior immediately again until dog learns whats expected.
Lastly, dog is not a human baby and their feelings dont get hurt. They have to learn how to act in the pack. All dogs get corrected even as pups by their mothers. Young dogs with passive aggressive behavior are often pups that were removed from mother too early, often before 8wks.
But no matter what, corrections have to be the same by every member of the house. One person correcting when another praising bad behavior will hurt the dog more as it will be totally confused.
That's my input as I have worked a lot of dogs from Jack Russels, Labs, Boykins, GSP's, and Brittany's.
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Orange Elite [5246]
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All-Conference [433]
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Re: Golden Retrievers
Dec 20, 2024, 7:14 PM
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I've had about 8 Goldens over my lifetime and I have two now. We've only had Resource guarding issues with one, but then again all of them were in our home from 8 weeks old.
Best solution we had (again, this is with puppies, so they can't do any real damage if they get mad) was to mess with them constantly while they eat. Put the bowl down, let them start eating, then start doing things. Move the bowl across the room. Pick the dog up and move them away from the bowl. Pet the dog. Mess with their ears. Lift their paws. Just keep doing random, but harmless stuff, so they start to learn that the human controls the situation but that the human is also not out to steal their things at the end of the day.
Caveat is that, if a puppy gets mad and growls or tries to bite, it's harmless, while an adult dog could do damage. So be careful with that part.
Resource guarding between dogs can be a different story. I've never encountered it with Goldens. I have two right now, and they get jealous and steal toys from one another constantly, but they just let it happen. There may be a snarl or a grumpy face, but they never snap on the other. I mostly attribute that to their nature and the resource guarding training as puppies with the food, but it could also just be luck.
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All-Conference [433]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: Golden Retrievers
Dec 20, 2024, 7:21 PM
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I should also add, the food training could start without actual contact. If it's really bad, it could start with you being close enough to the food to make them uncomfortable, but not to lash out. Then, you incrementally get closer and then eventually start the process of messing with them.
Also, the punishment for reacting is that you take the food from them. It doesn't take long in a dog's mind for that to be punishment. Literally 20-30 seconds of taking food from them will reinforce that they messed up. Then you put it back down and start the process again.
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Replies: 23
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