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CU Guru [1741]
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For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 12:00 PM
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http://www.maxpreps.com/m/article.aspx?articleid=e13e13ce-33cd-4c7d-9abb-5b14ab84c08d
Notable: Demarco Murray was the only 5* high schooler to be named all pro last season. Most players were 3* or less. JJ Watt? 2*. Antonio Brown? Zero. Richard Sherman? 3*.
Coachin'em up is more important than the overall talent level. We've recruited highly decorated OL for a while...and they haven't played up to the hype. Vic Beasley was positionless at Clemson till they put him at DE. Ever notice how our WRs tend to get better over their time here? That's coaching.
Honestly, the talent level between US and NC State or Syracuse isn't as great as you'd think. It's coaching and confidence. How many years under Tommy Bowden did Clemson put 6-7 players in the draft, yet finished 7-5, 8-5, 9-4? It's coaching.
All you people laughing at Spurlid, he can coach. Mark my words, They'll win 8-9 games precisely because A) no expectations and B) marginal improvement of their defense.
Either way, I chuckle at the dramatic reactions to a recruit. He commits and he's the best. Goes somewhere else and he stinks or stupid, or his momma does like pimento cheese.
How many of you celebrated the commitment of Willy Korn? Roscoe Crosby? Now how about Grady Jarrett?
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Legend [16865]
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Re: For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 12:08 PM
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So...why didn' Spurlid win more games last year, when he had more talent he had already coached up? I'm not following the math here...not at all.
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110%er [7169]
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Spoken like a true COOT!This topic is on the fgf site rite?
Aug 22, 2015, 12:08 PM
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And just so you know. Yes I gave you the thumbs down...Don't want you to ramble on how people td without taking responsibility for it. 
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CU Guru [1819]
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***astute***
Aug 22, 2015, 12:08 PM
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d
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CU Guru [1197]
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You may be right
Aug 22, 2015, 12:09 PM
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The talent gap between your team and NC State or Syracuse may not be much
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CU Guru [1330]
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Re: For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 12:11 PM
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Wait, so you're saying that some high school players pan out and some don't?
Please, tell me more.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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It means something in college, not pros...
Aug 22, 2015, 12:14 PM
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Take a look at the teams who win national titles, they have plenty of 4 star and 5 star players. You're conflating college recruitment with how players develop into good NFL players. Why did we win the Orange Bowl over OSU, because of Sammy Watkins(5star), Tajh Boyd (4star), Martavis Bryant (4star), Stephone Anthony (5 star), Vic Beasley (4star ATH). You have to develop your 2 and 3 star players too, but the teams winning national title have plenty of 4 and 5 star players. How those players turnout in the NFL, has nothing to do with wins and losses in college football.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 12:20 PM
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Jeffers: I get your point but here is the fact. The stars may mean nothing to a point BUT if one did a complete study of all Tier One teams I believe you would find that they do reflect better potential, better execution to date and a number of other factors. If you don't think Syracuse, Wake, NC State to name a couple are way behind us, time for you to put on the glasses. We left them at the train station several years ago. If you would like to put up some cash I'll be glad to take the other side of your prediction that the Coots win 8 or 9 games this year. That is foolish talk and I suspect you know better.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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You're wrong. And focusing on the NFL is also wrong
Aug 22, 2015, 12:21 PM
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if your argument is that the stars mean nothing for COLLEGE success.
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All-In [36450]
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Tell'em Coot***
Aug 22, 2015, 12:30 PM
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Here's an article from a couple years ago showing
Aug 22, 2015, 12:32 PM
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that higher recruiting rankings translate directly to a higher chance for a player to become an AA. It also breaks CFB teams into tiers based on Rivals recruiting rankings and shows a chart that compares how teams in each tier performed against others. The evidence is overwhelming.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Orange Blooded [3507]
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The typical coot response to the star system.
Aug 22, 2015, 12:37 PM
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Stars sure did matter to you guys when the Doo Doo Clown committed, huh.
Believe me, if USuC wasn't having a complete FAILURE of a recruiting year, stars would all of a sudden matter.
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Commissioner [967]
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Re: For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 12:40 PM
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You should send that to the coaches! I'm sure they'd be thrilled to know that don't need to spend all of there time away from there families while on the recruiting trail.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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Suggesting that the talent gap between CU and Syracuse isnt that big
Aug 22, 2015, 12:44 PM
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Is truly laughable
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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He didn't say that...he said his team...Gamecoots********
Aug 22, 2015, 5:31 PM
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 12:45 PM
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Bullbutter
Take a look at the majority of past national champions from the last decade. Compare what they did on the recruiting trail and then get back to us
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Legend [15914]
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Injuries and attrition hurt us on OL, not talent.
Aug 22, 2015, 12:47 PM
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Wasn't it 3-4 yrs ago we had 3 4*s committed... Destefano, Jones (both injured ending careers) and Lemon or something that didnt qualify? These things happen, we just hit a bad break with the OL.
Our coaches do well with what we have, but studs like DW, Scott, Williams, Peake, etc. make it easier.
I think we had a stud DL last year, but having a 5* in the backfield to lock down half the field was invaluable.
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CU Guru [1903]
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CJ Spiller, Deshaun Watson, Sammy Watkins...
Aug 22, 2015, 12:51 PM
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There are ?? 10 3 star recruits for every 1 5 star recruit. It's not everything, but you can't coach speed or size.
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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I'm not a nerd.***
Aug 22, 2015, 12:53 PM
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CU Guru [1903]
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FACT: The top 4 ranked teams last year based on recruiting
Aug 22, 2015, 12:57 PM
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rankings of all players on the 2014 roster (all classes freshmen-RS senior) were Ohio State, Alabama, FSU and some other team other than OR.
OR and Clemson ranked between 12 and 15. Notice that 3 of the 4 teams in the playoff were in the top 4 in recruiting rankings and Clemson finished last year almost identical to it's recruiting ranking.
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All-In [28802]
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Sorry, but that's just wrong
Aug 22, 2015, 12:59 PM
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Anecdotal evidence doesn't tell us anything. The fact is that a 5-star player is far more likely to play in the NFL than a 2-star player. Teams that recruit well do better in games, too, and that's not just an effect of recruiting services rating players that already good teams are interested in highly.
Clemson is actually a great example of that, as our fortunes on the field have risen only after our recruiting rankings rose. Given that, I don't know what your motivation is to argue that recruiting rankings don't matter.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 1:02 PM
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Yeah but stars let you guarantee superiority over your rival without the kids ever playing a game against each other.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Here's something else a lot of people don't take into acct
Aug 22, 2015, 1:11 PM
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Approx 2500 players are signed by colleges every year. Of those 2500, 30 or so typically get 5* ratings. That's a bit north of 1% of all recruits. Over 40% of all 5* players have been drafted into the NFL since 2000. About 250 players get drafted each year - out of ~2500 that are signed to play CFB each season. So roughly 1% of all recruits get drafted compared to over 40% of 5* players.
16% of 1st round draft picks over the last 5 years were former 5* recruits. 1% of the players, 16% of the 1st round picks.
But, but, but....
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CU Medallion [58424]
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Orange Blooded [4851]
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Re: For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 1:33 PM
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Come on Steve,have another drink and quit ringing your own bell.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 2:15 PM
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This guy still thinks he is fooling anyone...
Pathetic #### lover is obvious.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 2:18 PM
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I do agree with the OP about the stars thing.
But - I want to know which of USUC's 12 games that they might win. He says 8-9. I can't see 8-9 wins for USUC if everyone plays their 2's against them. I expect 4-8 to 7-5, with 5-7 as my best guess (AND NO BOWL).
They will NOT win the following games:
@ UGA
@ Mizzou
LSU
@ TAM
@UT
CLEMSON
Toss ups games:
UNC
UK
UCF
UF
They WILL beat Vandy - but that is the only SURE WIN that I see.
So OP - which games will USUC win???
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 2:19 PM
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Oh yeah - USUC will beat The Citadel, so 2 sure wins.
I expect them to lose 1-2 of the toss up games.
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All-In [39020]
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Re: For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 5:17 PM
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UCF won't be as good as they were. I think that's another win. So that's 3. But I only expect them to win one of UK/UNC/UF.
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Legend [18708]
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If they mean nothing why did you offer Pinkney?***
Aug 22, 2015, 2:43 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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Message removed by Author
Aug 22, 2015, 3:11 PM
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Message removed by Author
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All-In [26022]
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Re: I figure the coot players are good for five games.
Aug 22, 2015, 3:36 PM
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Time to call Waste Management. '09 is back.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: I figure the coot players are good for five games.
Aug 22, 2015, 4:05 PM
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He is right in one critical area - stars don't matter; evaluations do.
It's worth noting that our top three running backs this year are likely to be a high-end 3-star (Gallman), a former walk-on (CJ Davidson), and a low-end 3-star (CJ Fuller)...while three guys who carried 4-star ratings (Dye, Choice, and Brooks) are likely to be on the bench. Granted, injuries have had a lot to do with that, since all three guys have had significant injury problems that have slowed or derailed their progress...but it's also worth noting, I think, that the three lower-ranked guys (or unranked, in Davidson's case), for the most part, have always just looked more talented than the 4-stars for the most part.
You can find really talented, if usually rawer, guys who do not carry high star ratings. Usually the caveat is that they need to redshirt and develop and they're usually kind of projects who aren't ready to help you until year 2 or later. If you've got a good, stable program, and you recruit and evaluate well, you can build an entire program out of them...in fact you usually have to, since unless you're, well, frankly willing to cheat like it's the Wild West 80's, you don't usually land highly-recruited guys unless you're a winning program with a history of putting guys in the NFL. I look at what guys like, say, Dave Doeren are doing at NC State, and while he's gotten a few 4's, for the most part he's building up with fast, athletic, project players. Charlie Strong built a team at Louisville that just put 10 guys in the NFL last year too...though Bobby Petrino, predictably, is going...a different way. (And Petrino looks more like the Sith Emperor Palpatine every year, too. The Dark Side is strong with that one. I halfway expect him to start shooting purple lightning out of his fingertips at some point while cackling: "Good! Good! Good!")
Anyway, I digress. And I do agree, to some extent. Star ratings are an indicator...but after you get to college, Show Me.
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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The best coaches accurately evaluate potential.
Aug 22, 2015, 5:05 PM
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It's based on a player's natural talent and understanding that football is just like life, you only get back what you put into it. If a player has the motivation to work hard and develop skill you'll often see them spend a year on the bench working toward a goal.
Some programs (elite) want players who can come in and contribute immediately even though there will be some rough spots along the way due to physical development and experience levels. Clemson's last class has proven that we are moving in the right direction if not already there. We have players who no coach in the NCAA would Red Shirt, none. We didn't get those players because we promised them a starting job, we got them because we promised them an opportunity to play their first year.
I'd say Dabo got caught with his pants down needing to depending on 1st year players to hold the lines. Knowing that AU, Bama, LSU and the other programs that put linemen in the NFL after three or four years of NCAA experience dissuades that thinking.
Recruiting linemen who can be developed enough to compete at this level in just the six or seven months between the bowls and the next season lets me know that Clemson is doing just about everything right. IMO, we're solid everywhere on the field if our TEs can block.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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Who died and made you an authority? Some hit & some miss.
Aug 22, 2015, 4:10 PM
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So what? Such is life!
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Orange Blooded [2721]
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Re: For all you recruiting nerds- the stars mean NOTHING
Aug 22, 2015, 4:29 PM
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I wholeheartedly agree. I would much rather have Amir Trapp than Mac Alexander... What a minute... maybe I should just trust the coaches who seem to be filling our roster with 4 and 5 star talent while supplementing in a very selective manner with 3 star and below.
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CU Guru [1797]
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All-American [557]
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Your logic is flawed...
Aug 22, 2015, 5:09 PM
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How many 5*'s per year to draw from? . How many 3's ? 2's?
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Commissioner [900]
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There are 25 5* players every year. The percentages
Aug 22, 2015, 5:11 PM
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won't be favorable when comparing the success of 5* players using raw numbers. Do it on a percentage basis and then talk to me.
Annual approximation:
5* 25 players
4* 150 players
3* 250 players
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Walk-On [126]
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How bout great coaching of 5* players?
Aug 22, 2015, 10:57 PM
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Of course there are talented players who are overlooked by recruiting gurus. Especially in SC (due to size of schools). Plus some guys continue to fill out when in college.
But, I would rather have a team full of 4 & 5* guys, than a team of 2 & 3* guys.
Seems Dabo agrees by the way he talks about this team
Bowden’s guys have not done well in the NFL, because Bowden was against physical practices for fear of injury.
Dabo woke up and realized toughness does not just appear on gameday. It must be developed in practice.
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Replies: 40
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