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All-In [27180]
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No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 1:09 PM
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big setback. We MUST carry more numbers on O Line this season is a case study as to why. Our refusal to use the portal is going to catch up with us. O Line was going to improve with younger talent but Tchio was a part of that talent and a key contributor at that.
Dabo is all in on the Tate train it appears let’s pray he doesn’t get hurt. Use the portal.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 1:25 PM
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I am not arguing against getting more depth on the OL whether it be from HS recruiting or from the portal, but I am shocked to see so many people posting about the Tchio transfer as if it shows a problem with the Clemson program.
I feel it shows just the opposite.
We have 4 OL out for the year with injury, with 2 or 3 of them being interior OL.
Even with these major losses at his position and seemingly only a true freshman left to compete with, Tchio was having trouble earning playing time.
If Tchio was sitting behind lower rated veterans and a similarly rated freshman, then it seems Tchio let Clemson down with his lack of either mental or physical development or both.
Sitting behind lower rated veterans means that Tchio's physical abilities were not enough to overtake players with more experience in learning the offense. Some lower rated players must have developed themselves enough physically and mentally to outplay Tchio's talent.
Sitting behind a similarly rated Tate tells me that Tchio's knowledge of the offense was not enough to keep him ahead of a true freshman. Tchio must not have developed his mental game enough to have an advantage or new players starting from step 1 in learning the playbook.
If you want to cite Clemson's OL injuries as a reason to carry more players in the group, then I agree with you.
If you are citing Tchio's mid-season departure as a reason to carry more players, then I'm not sure that is something that can be planned for.
Now Clemson needs to add an offseason signing to fill this gap.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 1:31 PM
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Maybe he fell in love with Louisville?
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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However you want to spin this, the bottom line is it is a STAFF problem. Either we missed on the evaluation or we failed to develop him. Period.
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Orange Blooded [2345]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 1:47 PM
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Hard to hit home runs on all 85.
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Starter [377]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 1:52 PM
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I agree with the sentiment but we don’t have hit a hr on 85…a single or even sacrifice will do every now Amd then …but we can’t have strike outs …at least put the ball in play!!! Amd yes I know we don’t have many strikeouts but I just thought it sounded good!!! Lol!!!
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Legend [16136]
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All-American [557]
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Bingo, we take only about 75, self imposed****
Nov 9, 2021, 10:43 PM
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Legend [15870]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 11:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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Especially over the last 10 year period. I would say IMO that Dabo and his staff have missed on very few players.
I wish those posters whose content is more negative than positive please tell why and what you expectations of Success are? Honestly I don’t understand it especially after the Elite Status Clemson has achieved with 2 NC’s in 6 years, 10 years of with 10 or more wins, the first program to go 15-0. We even got there before Bama. All this success yet some fans cannot handle some adversity. I believe the TP has hurt our depth the last couple of years.
More restrictions should be applied to the use of the TP. For example kids should be allied but 1 transfer and only before or after the college football season is over. IMO it has had a negative affect on some kids work ethic.
It was a good thing we did not have a TP for the military on D-Day. Sometimes you have force yourself to work for what you want. It’s my belief that if these kids know they have a way out some of them may give less effort and fail to develop because of their poor work ethic..
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CU Medallion [55408]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 10, 2021, 11:46 AM
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The transfer portal mixed with the NIL is a slow growing disease for college sports that will eventually kill athletics for most colleges!!!
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Heisman Winner [134457]
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I honestly feel that the portal gives players who can't
Nov 9, 2021, 1:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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accept the fact they they are simply being "out hustled" at practice or in a game. Instead of trying to get better, work harder and learn, they opt out. I'm sure some feel they are "entitled" based on their HS ranking they should start time they step foot on campus. College football is a lot faster, stronger than HS and some are able to hang and some are not. I'm not saying this is the only reason players transfer but the portal gives some an easy way out.
I wonder how many players that transfer actually pan out at other D-1 schools. Some have but most have not.
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Legend [16136]
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Keep blaming the players***
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Nov 9, 2021, 2:04 PM
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Legend [19687]
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So the staff is intentionally holding out
Nov 9, 2021, 2:23 PM
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Guys who are better than the guys in front of them? He wasn't playing because he was not better than anyone in front of him.
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CU Guru [1345]
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Re: So the staff is intentionally holding out
Nov 9, 2021, 2:33 PM
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Striper, the last play I saw Tchio in on, he looked lost and neither blocked or attempted to block no one. So, I agree with you.
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CU Guru [1672]
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Oculus Spirit [76951]
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Who blamed a player?
Nov 9, 2021, 3:05 PM
[ in reply to Keep blaming the players*** ] |
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Was a completely objective take which I agree with.
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CU Medallion [55408]
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Re: Keep blaming the players***
Nov 10, 2021, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to Keep blaming the players*** ] |
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I blame this disease where it started growing, THE NCAA!!!
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All-TigerNet [10904]
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All-American [557]
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All-TigerNet [10911]
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Re: I honestly feel that the portal gives players who can't
Nov 10, 2021, 9:03 AM
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Go get on the Bama and UGA boards and tell everyone how great you think they are for taking transfers then. #### start cheering for them on Saturdays. Dabo and Clemson will do their thing and the rest can do what they want. As a fan and even the players, you're All-In or don't need to be around.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 1:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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I was expecting somebody to try to blame Caldwell or other coaches. You are wrong.
I'm pretty sure the same staff is developing the rest of the guys that are playing ahead of him.
Some are supposedly less talented and still developed enough to pass him by.
What if the staff evaluated him perfectly and brought him in with the expectation that he would contribute to the line in a couple of years?
Here we are a couple of years later and Tchio didn't hold up his end of the bargain to get better and be ready to play.
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Legend [16136]
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Who's job is it to get the players ready to play guy?***
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Nov 9, 2021, 2:06 PM
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Who's job is it to get the players ready to play guy?***
Nov 9, 2021, 2:08 PM
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So you would like to blame our coaches for not getting a sophomore ready to play even though they were able to get a freshman ready to play?
You want to blame our coaches for not getting a highly ranked player ready to play even though they were able to get 3 star guys ready to play?
I guess your next guess will be that the coaches just pick which players to develop because they don't like some of the kid they spend several years getting to know while they are recruiting them right?
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Legend [16136]
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I would blame the person that thought he was worthy of a
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Nov 9, 2021, 4:46 PM
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scholarship or I would blame the person who couldn't get a return on said scholarship
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Legend [19687]
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Why do you have to blame anyone?
Nov 9, 2021, 11:11 PM
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Kid was a highly recruited 4 star. Kid spent 2 1/2 years here. Kid barely saw the field.
Remember when OL was a developmental position? Redshirt, redshirt freshman, soph guys hardly played? As juniors and seniors they emerged.
Guess what, that still describes most OL. But now they have an exit without sitting out, and if they don't want to pay their dues, there is no penalty for leaving. That's the future everywhere
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CU Guru [1577]
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Coaching only goes so far
Nov 9, 2021, 9:41 PM
[ in reply to I would blame the person that thought he was worthy of a ] |
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Sports is supposed to teach you grind and compete to get better. Some of the players out there just aren’t willing to do that or accept that they need to accept responsibility and ownership of their own effort. The only fact I see at this point is that he’s no longer willing to do that here at Clemson.
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110%er [6885]
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So none of it could possibly lie with the kid? Not
Nov 9, 2021, 2:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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saying it does, but perhaps the kid feels entitled and doesnt put forth the work and just takes his ball and goes home. Maybe?
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Legend [19687]
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Doesn't fit the narrative***
Nov 9, 2021, 11:06 PM
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Oculus Spirit [76951]
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Gets it^^^^^^***
Nov 9, 2021, 11:08 PM
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Varsity [229]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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This is the same thought process that places blame solely on a teacher when the student fails a course.
While some failures are because of bad teaching/coaching, this could also go to a kid being distracted, not continuing to put in the effort needed for advanced "education", or getting frustrated when another student gets a concept more easily than he did.
I watch daily with students who struggle to get a topic on the first day immediately shut down. I also see those who don't get the topic double down, ask for extra practice, and seek help. I see students who have performed well in previous classes struggle when asked to apply skills to real-life situations rather that just regurgitating information and I've seen the opposite where kids blossom by making connections beyond the surface.
I don't know why Tchio hasn't emerged as the force we all hoped he would be, but the failure for those growth may not just rest on the coaching staff.
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Orange Blooded [2140]
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CU Medallion [55408]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 10, 2021, 11:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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So what you're saying, is that it had nothing to do with Paul Tchio ability, or him putting his hands in the dirt and being all he can be, All In. And that with him entering the portal at mid season was all on the coaching staff. P L E A S E!!! Paul Tchio entered the portal bc he wanted what he hadn't earned, and he felt entitled, and he's taking his ball to play somewhere he can beat out the competition, and if he can't do that at his next stop, you will hear about him taking his ball somewhere else again.
Like an awful lot of other Tigers fans here on T-Net, I believe that there is a problem on the offensive side of the ball with the coaching, but, I don't believe those problems led to Paul Tchio entering the portal.
I personally believe that Paul Tchio is taking his ball, and leaving bc he wasn't the starter at a position that he felt he was entitled to bc he was the older guy that had been at Clemson longer. Apparently his position coach, or the OC felt differently about his ability, or his work ethics. Maybe they didn't feel that Paul had been All In, and by them playing the younger player sent that message to him, and he got pissed and quit on his Tiger team.
Very nicely I say bye bye, wish him well, and that he probably should work harder for his next coach/coaches, or he could use up a lot of his career in the portal!!!
PS/ any player can quit and enter the transfer portal bc the NCAA made quitting on a team and leaving easy. IMHO, the NCAA has done more to hurt college athletes with rule changes like the transfer portal, than any part of the game that they choose to play ever could!!! The transfer portal is teaching very young people that quitting on commitments is the easiest/best part of their commitment. It teaches them that working harder isn't the best plan, it teaches them that if showing up isn't enough to accomplish what they've started, just quit and go somewhere where it does work that way.
Message was edited by: allinallorangeallthetime52®
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Legend [16136]
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Either he was a missed evaluation during recruiting or he
1
Nov 9, 2021, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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didn't get the coaching he needed to be an effective player...Either way you spin it, we dropped the ball here
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Legend [19687]
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So no player has any responsibility?***
Nov 9, 2021, 2:26 PM
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Legend [16136]
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It's the players fault he chose Clemson?***
Nov 9, 2021, 4:32 PM
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Heisman Winner [134457]
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Legend [16136]
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Why? They signed him because they saw something in him
Nov 9, 2021, 5:02 PM
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and then they couldn't extract it...Why NOT blame them? It's their fault
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Oculus Spirit [76951]
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You don’t seem to have any
Nov 9, 2021, 5:08 PM
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Perspective on the recruiting and evaluation process. Instead, you’re being antagonistic and contrarian just to be a jerk because that is your “Schtick.”
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Legend [16136]
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Find a new slogan guy, that one you keep trying to peddle is
Nov 9, 2021, 5:44 PM
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fuckkedout...You have yet to refute anything I said, you just called more names...tired right?
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Hall of Famer [22659]
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Re: Find a new slogan guy, that one you keep trying to peddle is
Nov 9, 2021, 5:54 PM
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So by your logic it’s the bosses fault when he hires someone with a great resume who then turns out to have a poor work ethic?? Not the employee’s fault for having a poor work ethic?
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Oculus Spirit [76951]
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It’s your Schtick that has grown tired.
Nov 9, 2021, 5:54 PM
[ in reply to Find a new slogan guy, that one you keep trying to peddle is ] |
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Might want to check your own kitchen there as you haven’t successfully refuted anything.
Again, I don’t argue with trolls like yourself. Your circular logic and perpetual gaslighting aren’t much fun to pick on anyway. I’ll continue conversing with those with sense and an education. Peace, old man.
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Legend [16136]
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All you do is project your own insecurities on others guy,
Nov 10, 2021, 12:31 AM
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anybody with a brain sees that...Gaslighting? Circular logic? Look in the mirror much?
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Oculus Spirit [76951]
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Just trollin the troll, old man.***
Nov 10, 2021, 12:38 AM
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Legend [16136]
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couldn't provide a better example myself, thank you for
Nov 10, 2021, 1:43 AM
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proving my point
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Oculus Spirit [76951]
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That’s not a point, it’s a fact.
Nov 10, 2021, 8:48 AM
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You just aren’t smart enough to know the difference.
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Legend [16136]
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Smart enough to see the irony of your actions, pity
Nov 10, 2021, 11:48 AM
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you can't...but that's just ANOTHER you problem
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CU Medallion [55408]
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CU Medallion [55408]
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Re: Just trollin the troll, old man.***
Nov 10, 2021, 12:05 PM
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A couple of my friends is on a roll this morning, I have gave them enough TU's this morning to get the monogram knife and fork set!!!!??????
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Heisman Winner [134457]
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Oculus Spirit [76951]
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All-American [581]
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Oculus Spirit [76951]
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Flat out gets it ^^^^^^^
Nov 9, 2021, 3:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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Tchio wasn’t going to matriculate. Period.
Dabo even said, the backups to Tchio will likely still redshirt…
That should be all anyone read after the title.
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Hall of Famer [22659]
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Re: Flat out gets it ^^^^^^^
Nov 9, 2021, 4:17 PM
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Yep. That sums it up. Amazing how so many people go crazy over these kids that aren’t playing entering the portal. I don’t recall ANY starters going to the portal. And don’t say Booth because he was asked to leave for disciplinary reasons. I don’t think Mike Jones would have beat out Simpson this year either. They are leaving because they want to be on the field and can’t get there at Clemson. So the transfers aren’t ruining the program. Talk about spinning it….
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All-In [27180]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 4:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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Injuries AND transfers. We are now so thin at LG it's laughable. This is not the situation a so-called "Elite" P5 program should find itself in.
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Oculus Spirit [76951]
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RB, no argument
Nov 9, 2021, 4:39 PM
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the attrition sucks and the numbers tell a story, but the story isn’t about where we are or where we are headed. It’s just noise. There is an upper limit and a lower limit. This is just the chatter in between them.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 10, 2021, 12:29 AM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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Tchio as a player may not be a reason for us to carry more linemen or use the portal, but Tchio as someone that has not played is.
Against both GT and Louisville we did not substitute at all on the offensive line. I take that to mean that we have at most 5 players for either game that are really game ready. I say at most, because I am not sure that Tate was really ready for GT but 5 were going to play ready or not. In neither game was the o-line stellar, so there should have been times where someone was pulled for a breather, to point out a mistake on their part, or a tendency on the defense's part.
Dabo said in his press conference that 15 is the number that he wants to be at for scholarship linemen. That number is not going to be the same as the number of game ready linemen which is the important number for each Saturday. Those 15 are limited by injury and a certain number that are still in a developmental stage. To me we should have at least have 8 to 10 that are game ready for every game and in 2 games we evidently had 5 or there would have been substitution in either game based on performance alone.
Carrying more numbers would be one way to produce more players that are game ready. Not sure where as a general rule that we would want to pull the numbers away from. At the moment I would say the d-line since it is both deep and talented, but I don't know that we can expect the young men to be ready to play off the bat the way they have been the last couple of years.
The other way that we could increase the number of game ready linemen is by using the portal to shift the numbers to having more upper classmen. That way we would have more players that are beyond the developmental stage, especially physically.
I suppose there might also be something that could be done to speed up the development of the young players. I am just throwing things out there for solutions and am not going to pretend that I know what should be done. I don't need a mechanic to tell me when my truck is not running right, but why it isn't. In the same way, I don't have to be a coach to tell that we do not have enough offensive linemen ready to play.
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All-American [557]
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TE pos or the 5hearts for scholarships
Nov 10, 2021, 7:12 AM
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Tchoi (101)had more reps than anyone in that 2020 Ol class besides Parks; not a good sign considering the poor play of the starters against mediocre comp, save Geo.
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All-TigerNet [14470]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 10, 2021, 9:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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TigersO
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a emoji_events [28]
Nov 9, 2021, 1:25 PM
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I am not arguing against getting more depth on the OL whether it be from HS recruiting or from the portal, but I am shocked to see so many people posting about the Tchio transfer as if it shows a problem with the Clemson program.
I feel it shows just the opposite.
We have 4 OL out for the year with injury, with 2 or 3 of them being interior OL.
Even with these major losses at his position and seemingly only a true freshman left to compete with, Tchio was having trouble earning playing time.
If Tchio was sitting behind lower rated veterans and a similarly rated freshman, then it seems Tchio let Clemson down with his lack of either mental or physical development or both.
Sitting behind lower rated veterans means that Tchio's physical abilities were not enough to overtake players with more experience in learning the offense. Some lower rated players must have developed themselves enough physically and mentally to outplay Tchio's talent.
Sitting behind a similarly rated Tate tells me that Tchio's knowledge of the offense was not enough to keep him ahead of a true freshman. Tchio must not have developed his mental game enough to have an advantage or new players starting from step 1 in learning the playbook.
If you want to cite Clemson's OL injuries as a reason to carry more players in the group, then I agree with you.
If you are citing Tchio's mid-season departure as a reason to carry more players, then I'm not sure that is something that can be planned for.
Now Clemson needs to add an offseason signing to fill this gap.
WOW, COMMON SENSE ON TIGERNET. DABO SAYS WE CARRY 15 LINEMAN and that is where we will be. fact is tchio quit on his team mates with 3 games to go. who wants trash on their team like that in the first place. we have a lot of good young lineman that are being redshirted. several of those you will see play on saturday. let the walmart idiots spin it any way they like.
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All-TigerNet [10457]
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Yes it certainly is.***
Nov 9, 2021, 1:37 PM
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Orange Blooded [2345]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 1:46 PM
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I have heard the name but not in a game. Maybe I just don't listen.
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All-In [30828]
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why are you refusing to use the portal?***
Nov 9, 2021, 2:00 PM
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Orange Blooded [2523]
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Re: why are you refusing to use the portal?***
Nov 9, 2021, 2:09 PM
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It would corrupt our "culture".
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All-In [25971]
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Re: why are you refusing to use the portal?***
Nov 9, 2021, 2:30 PM
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No need to panic. We only have a few games left. Injuries will heal and new blood coming in will change the appearance of this team next year.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 3:01 PM
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He transferred because he wasn't playing.
If he wasn't going to play with as bad as this offensive line is, what's the upside?
He might have played with more development, but he obviously wasn't willing to wait or take that chance.
If you are a saying we need to bring in more players and plan for attrition, that might make sense.
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Orange Blooded [3362]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 3:15 PM
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He was named co-starter last week. No plays?
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All-In [27180]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 4:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a ] |
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That's flat out wrong. When Bock was playing center, he was at LG. When Bock got hurt at LG, Tchio and Tate were rotating at LG.
Tchio had and was expected to make quality reps.
Now, we have ZERO depth at LG. Keep trying to spin it and pray Tate doesn't go down.
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110%er [5640]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 5:53 PM
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Nothing is a given, you earn your playing time according to how hard you work Monday through Friday.
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CU Guru [1959]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 5:59 PM
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I am going to trust the coaches that have won multiple ACC championships and a couple of national championships and I don’t know how many 10 win seasons in a row before I start siding with TigerNetters. Having said that the transfer portal allowing players to play immediately without sitting out a year has caused what we are seeing. Also we live in a society where no one takes responsibility for themselves or their actions and they don’t know their role. These players need to understand you have to work your rear off and hope you are good enough to play and if you are not working hard and or not good enough to play you probably won’t. Instead the players and now some here on this board start blaming the coaches or the culture or the portal.
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 10:03 PM
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So, portal people
You want Dabo to bring on players who could not play at other schools and who do not have the skills to start for Clemson? Who are limited in ability. Just so you can say that he used the portal.
Please name these great players who will come in and dominate.
There may have been 5-10 total portal players who helped a upper tier program. And for the most part, they were problems for their prior team.
For lower tier programs, sure, they can probably build depth and some starters.
Bama took a linebacker from Tennessee.
Tennessee took an offensive lineman from ga (who moved back home).
Ga took a player Clemson was having issues with.
Ohio state took a QB who supposedly ran from a racial issue.
I feel confident - our 2 time national Championship coach, will use the portal when it can benefit the team.
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All-American [557]
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Thanks for dropping by Tigernet, Coach Pearman...
Nov 10, 2021, 10:34 AM
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I can see you're well informed and have a great handle on all things portal related.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 10:12 PM
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I would like to see our transfer numbers as compared to other top programs. That might give us some insight as to whether we have a problem - or not.
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MVP [537]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 9, 2021, 11:19 PM
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Our transfer out numbers are in line with everyone else. 3 to 4 per year.
UNC has 7
Miami 6
Cuse 6
Ncst 0
So it's not really a problem because it probably balance s out. They only problem is when you say you won't take any transfer in. But dabo really has not said that.
There's a top guy leaving Texas a&m. A LB. He's from Charlotte I think. So you see, if he wants to come home. It's GA or UNC.
Would he come here? Don't know but I wonder if we are even calling the best players at this point.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 10, 2021, 12:52 AM
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Earlier in the season, I assumed that we had gotten in touch with some players to see if there was any interest and not found any that would have been an asset to Clemson and that were interested. However, after listening to Dabo's remarks this year, I question whether we are making any effort at all with the portal.
I agree with Dabo that building through recruitment is the better way to build the program, but whether they are the exceptions or not, there are going to be players in the portal every year that would be assets to the program. If we contact certain players, and they do not want to come here then I understand. What I would not understand is if there is just a refusal to use the portal, and I am not sure that isn't what's going on.
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All-American [557]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 10, 2021, 11:11 AM
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I'd be shocked to learn we had reached out to anyone in the portal. Pearman's reassignment as Director of Transfer Portal Scouting felt like theatrics, but likely served another purpose as well.
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110%er [5395]
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All-American [557]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 10, 2021, 11:18 AM
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Yeah and they have 2 starters, standouts, acquired via the TP-
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Varsity [213]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 10, 2021, 9:08 AM
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Can’t use portal until off season wait until then get off soap box
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All-Conference [404]
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Re: No way to spin the Tchio transfer this is a
Nov 10, 2021, 11:28 AM
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He was terrible and was not going to see the field.
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50
!!!??????????
