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Asst Coach [871]
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Shawn Clark on Garrett Riley
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Sep 5, 2024, 8:06 AM
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He’s one of the best offensive minds in all of college football and he runs a unique offense and it's hard to defend
Yeah at TCU not Clemson!
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Ultimate Tiger [33792]
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Shawn is an awesome snow boarder...
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Sep 5, 2024, 8:14 AM
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didnt know he followed college football
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TigerNet Elite [70413]
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Shaun White?***
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:31 AM
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Ultimate Tiger [33792]
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no man.. no.. you are thinking of the guy who sold meth on breaking bad***
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Sep 5, 2024, 10:50 AM
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TigerNet Elite [70413]
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Walter White a/k/a Heisenberg?
Sep 5, 2024, 12:27 PM
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Orange Elite [5265]
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Asst Coach [871]
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TigerNet Elite [69841]
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This is why A LOT of people are of the opinion...
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Sep 5, 2024, 8:15 AM
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that Riley is being forced to run Clemson's offense as opposed to being given complete control and running the offense he wants.
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Orange Phenom [14712]
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Re: This is why A LOT of people are of the opinion...
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:11 AM
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Riley is running HIS offense and using the weapons he has available. If not, he would have left Clemson after last year. Moving on after one year is not out of the question for Riley.
Was Dabo running Riley's offense that Georgia took down 65-7 in his last game at TCU?
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Paw Master [16739]
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That is an opinion born more from frustration than reason.
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:39 AM
[ in reply to This is why A LOT of people are of the opinion... ] |
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It’s a real strain to think Dabo fired Streeter, hired the OC of the year, but told him he has to conform to Dabo’s style of offense.
It’s a real strain to think the OC of the year, who know doubt had his pick of programs, accepted a job at Clemson but is allowing his offense to be dictated by others, and to such a degree that his offense is ranked outside of the top 100 in FBS.
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TigerNet Elite [69841]
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I couldn't agree more!***
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Sep 5, 2024, 10:18 AM
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All-TigerNet [5652]
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Re: That is an opinion born more from frustration than reason.
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Sep 5, 2024, 12:17 PM
[ in reply to That is an opinion born more from frustration than reason. ] |
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Sure its a strain or stretch to say it, but the results are telling the story. Our offense is totally vanilla and non imaginitve. Its been that way for years, in fact we havent seen any change since TE and DJU, whats the explanation?
I cant beleive our Offense is not as talented as Boston College, yet those guys looked sharp and tricky against FSU.
If Reilly has any control hes not showing it.
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Tiger Titan [50842]
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Dabo is a control freak
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Sep 5, 2024, 12:22 PM
[ in reply to That is an opinion born more from frustration than reason. ] |
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so it isn't unreasonable to think that Dabo set firm parameters for what Riley is allowed to do with the offense.
I believe it's a stretch that an offensive coordinator as talented as Riley proved to be at SMU and TCU, with impressive offensive numbers to back it up, all of a sudden forgot how to run an offense at Clemson.
Do you really think our talent level is so limited here that he just can't do what he wants to do? Come on.
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Paw Master [16739]
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You call Dabo a control freak because of your pathological need to diminish him
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Sep 5, 2024, 1:08 PM
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in a bizarre effort to deflect criticism from your equally pathologically loved Brownell.
David Hood said "I've also been told that yesterday was all Garrett Riley on the playcalls with help from someone in the box. Three different people told me that. Kinda the same of what I heard at the end of last season. Swinney can veto or chime in, but yesterday was all Garrett."
So...the head coach can veto or chime in...but didn't...does that sound like a "control freak"? Or does that sound like the bare minimum level of control that any head coach of a major football program would require? Would you feel more comfortable if Dabo left the stadium during the game?
So was he NOT a control freak when OC Tony Elliott was winning national championships or Chad Morris had us slinging it around? Or did Dabo think he had to keep the cuffs on the OC of the year, unlike when a high school coach took over his offense?
I don't pretend to know what's been going on the past few years. If I were in charge, I would have a hard time giving the WR coach a passing grade, but there is something off on the play calling and I'm not going to pretend I know the answer. And heck...maybe we'll find out Dabo just offered the OC of the year a position to just be a figure head while Dabo ran the offense. But currently, all evidence points to the contrary.
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TigerNet Elite [69841]
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I firmly believe that it's player recruitment and development...
Sep 5, 2024, 1:14 PM
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and those issues rest almost entirely on Grisham.
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Tiger Titan [50842]
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No, I called Dabo a control freak because that's what I think he has become.
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Sep 5, 2024, 1:21 PM
[ in reply to You call Dabo a control freak because of your pathological need to diminish him ] |
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I believe the shift has been gradual. Early on in his career as head coach, he seemed to believe in hiring top coaches and letting them do their jobs. That was a huge key to our success on offense (Chad Morris) and defense (Brent Venables).
Somewhere along the way - I believe it was when Dabo started having high-level success - he started attributing our success to "culture" and "family" rather than to outstanding assistant coaches and elite talent. As such, he started hiring guys who fit the culture, even though most of them did not have the coaching resumes to justify them being hired.
I believe Dabo made this shift not only because he attributed much of our success to culture, and wanted good guys he knew and trusted in those roles, but also because he did not want to be challenged. Morris and Venables would challenge Dabo, but young and inexperienced coaches aren't as likely to. In fact, I think they know they can't. Why was this important to Dabo? Because he wants ultimate control.
I also believe that it is for these reasons that he has limited the availability of coordinators for interviews. Now, we only get to hear from them a few times a year. Again, this is due to Dabo's desire to control things. He doesn't want to risk them saying something he deems as wrong.
We see it in recruiting too. It is often framed as recruiting "the right people," but Dabo is very selective in who he recruits. While I think it is partly due to wanting well-adjusted young men on our team who will work hard and represent the program well, I also believe it is because he wants to recruit a personality type he feels he can control more easily.
Now we aren't allowing callers on Dabo's radio show, again, because Dabo wants to control what is said. When fans are perceived as questioning him, he goes on rants about how they aren't good fans and their expectation exceeds their appreciated. Dabo has threatened to leave Clemson if he doesn't feel appreciated enough.
Moreover, anyone in the media who asks a question Dabo perceives as critical or doubting often gets a harsh response from Dabo. The message, again, is that he isn't to be questioned.
There are other examples, of course, of Dabo's tight control over the program. It's been an interesting shift in his personality over the last decade or so. He's very different than he used to be. I miss the old Dabo.
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TigerNet Elite [69841]
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Were you wearing your tinfoil hat when posting that?***
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Sep 5, 2024, 2:12 PM
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Paw Master [16739]
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Eight paragraphs to say what I just said. You've created a narrative that Dabo
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Sep 5, 2024, 2:34 PM
[ in reply to No, I called Dabo a control freak because that's what I think he has become. ] |
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is a control freak and now his every action is seen by you through this prism. I'm surprised you don't see this when you read your own stuff.
You say he's changed but he was reacting strongly to questions he didn't like before he was winning national championships. Spurrier? ##########? These are some classics. It is no different than it's always been, but you ignore that for the sake of your personal narrative.
A coach recruiting guys he thinks he can coach? No way. When did this start!?! I never heard of that. Surely every other coach will take a talent regardless of whether they will do as they are told, and surely every time a coach has done that, it has worked out great for them. Dabo...you control freak! Remember the "Dandy Dozen" he got with his first recruiting class? Do you think that's because Dabo couldn't get any more kids to take scholarships? Or do you think maybe Dabo has always...ALWAYS recruited to a standard that he works hard not to compromise?
Dabo limiting assistant coaches interviews? Maybe he's a control freak. Or maybe he doesn't want them having to deal with the media and instead to focus on X's and O's. Is it possible that Goodwin, as a brand new DC, isn't dying to do interviews? Or do you think...based on what you've seen of him...that he craves the spotlight? Maybe...as a non-control freak...he should let the OC who called all the plays explain the 127th ranked offense? A little Steve Spurrier treatment for him?
I don't watch Dabo's Coach's Show. Taking no calls...maybe it's just this all-new "control freak" Dabo you're describing. I don't know. I've read a lot of people say that the calls were usually non-value-adding comments and made the show worse. Maybe he's just making the show more manageable. Maybe a show full of Tylers isn't a constructive use of the time. Or again...maybe he's a control freak. "Bwahahahahaaaa."
Anyway, I know there's no changing your mind on this but I'm can't let this nonsense go without calling it out. You are eaten up with this whole Dabo and Brownell thing...no idea how you got there but I do not that I'm not the one to fix it.
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Tiger Titan [50842]
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LOL, thats hilarious! You couldnt be more wrong.
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Sep 6, 2024, 1:17 AM
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My criticisms of Dabo have zero to do with Clemson basketball. It’s weird that you have concocted this bizarre theory that I criticize Dabo because I think it somehow helps the basketball program.
I want to see both programs succeed. I’ve been a huge fan of both for decades. Dabo has changed, and plenty of others here have noticed it too. We want to see him return to the hungry, enthusiastic guy he was. That’s when he was at his best, and when Clemson football was at its best.
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Legend [6629]
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Game Changer [1984]
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Game Changer [1984]
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^^^^ To be clear
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Sep 5, 2024, 2:42 PM
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That reply was for JK, not you Swarley.
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Ring of Honor [21258]
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Clemson Icon [24771]
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Commissioner [1231]
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Re: No, I called Dabo a control freak because that's what I think he has become.
Sep 6, 2024, 6:20 AM
[ in reply to No, I called Dabo a control freak because that's what I think he has become. ] |
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Judge that is so true and you will never get half this board to understand it ... It is a IQ thing with half these sunshine pumpers (coots), not smart enough to understand or accept it... Dabo has become a cult leader so to speak... How is 95% of the sports media and I would say 50% of Clemson alumni and fans wrong?
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Legend [6629]
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Man, I think you hit the nail on the head, but you get hate for
Sep 6, 2024, 5:20 PM
[ in reply to No, I called Dabo a control freak because that's what I think he has become. ] |
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telling the truth. Nothing in your post is a lie. I have lived out of state for most of my life after growing up 20 miles from campus, and observers of the program that do not see through an orange lens all say the same exact thing.
Those who tell you the truth love you. Those who tell you what you want to hear love themselves. People around here love themselves more than Clemson.
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Ring of Honor [22758]
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Game Changer [2083]
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Re: This is why A LOT of people are of the opinion...
Sep 6, 2024, 7:00 PM
[ in reply to This is why A LOT of people are of the opinion... ] |
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We don’t have near the skill guys on offense tcu had when he was there , It sucks to hear the truth but that’s the truth … Clemson recruiting and development or a combo of both has completely fallen off and that’s just fact… until that changes and we can pursuade top talent at the wr/rb and qb position to get here then develop them , this is the offense you get. Do I believe we could do a better job scheming guys open and moving the ball somehow , absolutely… but our talent is nowhere near where it needs to be to be elite … we have 8-19 win talent in a super weak conference , just is what it is right now .
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Orange Beast [6237]
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Dabo needs to take a play out of Sabans pkaybook
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:06 AM
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He didn’t bring OCs in to run “Saban’s offense.” He brought in coordinators to do what they do best.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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This is not true and quite the opposite.
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:17 AM
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He brought in Kiffin to engineer an offense for Bama. After Kiffin left, every OC there after ran the Bama offense.
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National Champion [8060]
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still waiting for this vaunted offensive scheme to show up.***
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:14 AM
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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It won't until we have playmakers that can run it.***
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:18 AM
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Hall of Famer [9055]
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If you need elite skill talent to run your offense, youre no OC.
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:20 AM
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That excuse just doesnt hold water, period. Plenty of po-dunk teams out there that can field a competent offense and they are not playing with day 1 NFL talent.
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TigerNet Elite [69841]
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It looks an awful lot like the plays are entirely scripted...
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:29 AM
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and no adjustments are being made based on what the defense is doing.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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We don't need elite skill talent to have an effective air raid concept offense
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Sep 5, 2024, 12:06 PM
[ in reply to If you need elite skill talent to run your offense, youre no OC. ] |
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But we do need speed. We haven't had speed combined with ball skills at WR nor RB the last few years. Any team that doesn't have at least one wr that combines speed with ball skills on offense is going to struggle, especially with a below average or average OL. Without speed it takes time for plays to develop into space. If the QB doesn't have the the time to allow for it, it's a recipe for disaster as we've seen 2021-2023.
Player 40 times at skill positions 2015 to now:
2015 Watson 4.89 Gallman 4.5 Artavis Scott 4.61 Peake 4.45 Cain 4.40 Renfrow 4.50
Average 4.55 Players 4.5 or less: 4
2016 Watson 4.89 Gallaman 4.5 Mike Williams 4.53 Cain 4.40 Artavis Scott 4.61 Renfrow 4.50 Ray Ray McCloud 4.49
Average 4.56 Players 4.5 or less: 4
2017 Kelly Bryant 4.69 Etienne 4.43 Feaster 4.40 Adam Choice 4.56 Cain 4.40 Renfrow 4.50 McCloud 4.49 Higgins 4.56
Average 4.50 Players 4.5 or less: 5
2018 Lawrence 4.78 Etienne 4.43 Feaster 4.40 Choice 4.56 Ross 4.64 Higgins 4.56 Amari Rodgers 4.49 Renfrow 4.50
Average 4.54 Players 4.5 or less: 4
2019 Lawrence 4.78 Etienne 4.43 Ross 4.64 Higgins 4.56 Lyn-J Dixon 4.52 Amari Rodgers 4.49
Average 4.57 Players 4.5 or less: 2
2020 Lawrence 4.78 Etienne 4.43 Lyn-J Dixon 4.52 Amari Rodgers 4.49 Cornell Powell 4.45 EJ Williams 4.66
Average 4.55 Players 4.5 or less: 3
2021 DJU 4.97 Shipley 4.46 Kobe Pace 4.83 Ross 4.64 Ngata 4.54 Beaux Collins 4.72 Decari Collins 4.51
Average 4.66 Players 4.5 or less: 1
2022 DJU 4.97 Shipley 4.46 Phil Mafah 4.56 Antonio Williams 4.45 Beaux Collins 4.72
Average 4.63 Players 4.5 or less: 2
2023 Cade Klubnik 4.65 Shipley 4.46 Phil Mafah 4.56 Tyler Brown 4.69 Beaux Collins 4.72 Troy Stellato 4.42 Adam Randall 4.4
Average 4.55 Players 4.5 or less: 3
2024 Cade Klubnik 4.65 Phil Mafah 4.56 Jay Haynes 4.4 Tyler Brown 4.69 Troy Stellato 4.42 Adam Randall 4.4 Bryant Wesco 4.5 TJ Moore 4.6 Cole Turner 4.42
Average 4.51 Players 4.5 or less: 5
This season's team (on paper at least) is one of the fastest we've had. But these WRs haven't been coached up to have the aggression, ball hawking and ball skills that our WRs have had in the past. I'm actually excited about what this team can do if they put it together.
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Hall of Famer [9055]
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So Cliffs Notes for your incredibly long post is: its coaching. And I agree.***
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Sep 5, 2024, 1:21 PM
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Rival Killer [2875]
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Asst Coach [877]
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Re: still waiting for this vaunted offensive scheme to show up.***
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Sep 5, 2024, 10:04 AM
[ in reply to still waiting for this vaunted offensive scheme to show up.*** ] |
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It never will show up unless you have the QB to run it. Example; Texas A & M was every bit as good as Notre Dame, ND's Qb was better, they won. LSU was as sgood as USC, USC's QB was better they won. You see it all the time. When teams are in the same area talent wise the better QB wins almost all the time. In todays RPO offenses the QB must be able to run some as well as pass. Scheme will make a difference, but only when you have a QB who can make it happen. Cade needs to pick it up, or we better find someone that can run Riley's offense or we will remain in the doldrums. That is my opinion, for what its worth. lol
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All-American [568]
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Re: Shawn Clark on Garrett Riley
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:41 AM
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Riley can’t run his real offense w dabo meddling in it. It’s time to let Riley call his plays and open things up!
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Paw Master [16739]
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Again, can you show some examples of this meddling?***
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:43 AM
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All-American [568]
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Re: Again, can you show some examples of this meddling?***
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:45 AM
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Example. Dabo said when he hired Riley he brought him in to run the Clemson offense…what more proof do you need?
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Paw Master [16739]
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lol. Oh my.***
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Sep 5, 2024, 10:02 AM
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TigerNet Elite [69841]
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Rival Killer [2875]
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Re: Again, can you show some examples of this meddling?***
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:48 AM
[ in reply to Again, can you show some examples of this meddling?*** ] |
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I don’t have any examples. But I do know the offense looks just like it did under Streeter. Possible coincidence I guess.
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TigerNet Elite [69841]
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Is it possible that's a personnel issue?***
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Sep 5, 2024, 10:31 AM
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National Champion [8060]
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possibly but if it is then why does the offense look exactly the same for 3 yrs?
Sep 5, 2024, 4:56 PM
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can we not change up things if the old ways don't seem to be working anymore? I'm telling you, it looks way too hard for this team to move the ball. The catches have to be acrobatic catches and nothing is easy. Yet I can watch GT or BC and it looks easier and more effective. Guarantee you we have higher rated recruits at WR and RB and QB than GT Or BC. What gives? I get having an off year but 3 in a row? I'd even venture to say Trevor's last season was a tough season to move the ball. We just had the Joe's to overcome it.
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Starter [280]
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Re: possibly but if it is then why does the offense look exactly the same for 3 yrs?
Sep 6, 2024, 5:14 PM
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It’s a different offense for sure, but it’s yielding the same results leading some to question whether the scheme changed. Anybody with half a brain knows when Dabo calls this the Clemson offense he doesn’t literally mean he brought GR in to run the same playbook. Honestly I believe this air raid scheme is worse than what we had. The QB run game is gone and the easy quick reads seem to be gone also. Plus they all talk about how few plays there are now out of this offense so they should be repping the same plays out of different looks and formations time after time. We sure as heck don’t look like we rep these plays time after time. I think the passing game needed a revamp under the Streeter scheme but maybe we shouldn’t have tossed the whole thing out?
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Game Day Hero [4422]
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Re: Shawn Clark on Garrett Riley
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Shawn Clark on Garrett Riley ] |
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David Hood confirmed Riley called his own game on Saturday. However, that’s not the same as saying Dabo didn’t have significant influence on the offensive game plan during preparation for the game. For example, why so much focus on attempting to attack Georgia on the outside for so much of the first half? There was much discussion leading up to the game that opportunity to run between the tackles may be possible. The Tigers eventually worked more to that later in the game.
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Tiger Titan [50842]
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Elliott and Streeter were asked point blank who calls the plays.
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Sep 5, 2024, 12:28 PM
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They both said that they do, but with plenty of input from the other coaches.
I interpret this to mean that they suggest a play, and then Dabo has the option of agreeing with it or changing it.
I do not believe that our OCs in recent years have had the freedom to suggest whatever they like, but rather, they are restricted to what Dabo calls "Clemson's offense."
Every time we have the ball, there seem to be significant conversations and deliberation occurring based on how much Dabo is talking into his headset. It doesn't look like he is allowing Riley to truly manage the offense.
I believe all this deliberation, which really started when Elliott became OC by himself, is the chief reason why we became a much slower paced offense. You simply cannot go up-tempo when multiple coaches need to weigh in before each play is called.
It also explains why our offense looks basically the same for the last few years, despite having THREE different offensive coordinators, all of whom would likely have their own preferences and wrinkles they would like to incorporate.
Regardless, what we are doing now clearly isn't working.
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CU Medallion [18223]
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It's hard to argue that observation, but some will find a way...The offense has
Sep 5, 2024, 2:27 PM
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looked the same since Trevor and Travis left
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Heisman Winner [79229]
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Re: Shawn Clark on Garrett Riley
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Sep 5, 2024, 9:47 AM
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defense at Ga didn't mind because he doesnt matter
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Tiger Titan [50842]
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That hasn't been on display at Clemson.
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Sep 5, 2024, 12:20 PM
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Although in Riley's defense, Dabo made it clear that Riley was brought here to run Clemson's offense and not Riley's offense.
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Athletic Dir [1131]
TigerPulse: 98%
26
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Re: That hasn't been on display at Clemson.
Sep 5, 2024, 12:28 PM
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I’d take Chad Morris’s offense right now.
Lots of motion and eye candy and quick reads for the QB to put guys in a position to make plays.
I like Riley’s scheme though. After the first three plays we should’ve been in the red zone versus UGA. Execution was the problem.
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Orange Blooded [2279]
TigerPulse: 96%
32
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Re: Shawn Clark on Garrett Riley
Sep 5, 2024, 4:58 PM
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Are you sure he was talking about the correct Riley?
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Hall of Famer [8229]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
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Re: Shawn Clark on Garrett Riley
Sep 6, 2024, 5:28 PM
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Riley basically has mahfa and the oline that’s playing well right now. The other guys got to step it up if this offense is going to work. Can’t to guys who aren’t open and can’t run a simple route. Along with a quarterback, who bails on the play before the plays develop
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CU Medallion [20819]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 18746
Joined: 2012
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Im shocked an opposing coach would be complimentary
Sep 6, 2024, 5:29 PM
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Never in my life have I heard of such a thing
What is this world coming to?
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Varsity [117]
TigerPulse: 42%
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He was hired to fix Clemson, not change it.
Sep 6, 2024, 6:00 PM
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And that will never happen with the current HC. So suck it up and enjoy the bumpy Dabo ride.
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Replies: 56
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