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Ring of Honor [22709]
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Ohio State or Clemson?
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Jan 10, 2023, 9:19 AM
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A few weeks ago I wrote a post and stated that I believed the SC loss did not cost us a playoff spot. The reason I said that is because I believed if a one-loss Clemson was compared to a one-loss Ohio State for the last playoff spot, the committee would have most likely chosen Ohio State. A lot of people told me I was wrong because if we won the ACC Championship, we would have been in. My point was the edict for the committee was not to choose the 4 best conference champions, it was to select the 4 best teams in the country.
In selecting between the two teams, they would have had an Ohio State team who beat the only team we would have lost to and their only loss would have come against another playoff team. They would also have looked at the way the two teams played in general and anecdotally selected the team they felt would be better in a head to head match up.
With the benefit of hindsight, we now know how we played in the OB and we know how OSU played against GA. We also can surmise that had Harrison Jr. not gotten injured, OSU most likely beats GA and probably goes on to win the NC.
My question now is do you still think Clemson would have been a better choice over OSU for the playoffs because you believe Clemson was a better team than OSU?
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Orange Phenom [14588]
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I think there's a very good chance we would've gotten in
Jan 10, 2023, 9:22 AM
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(at least 50/50) and the CFP would've been much worse for it because Georgia would've spanked us had it happened.
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Ring of Honor [22709]
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Re: I think there's a very good chance we would've gotten in
Jan 10, 2023, 9:23 AM
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But the question was not if we would have gotten in, it was do you think we would have deserved it over OSU because you truly thought we were better?
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Orange Phenom [14588]
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Anyone that watched us play knows we wouldn't have deserved
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Jan 10, 2023, 9:25 AM
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it. We didn't even look like a top 10 team for much of the season.
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Clemson Conqueror [11140]
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We get it. You’re very much down on Clemson.***
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Jan 10, 2023, 9:58 AM
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Orange Phenom [14588]
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As a playoff team this year? Absolutely
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Jan 10, 2023, 10:09 AM
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How do you think we would've fared against Georgia?
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Clemson Conqueror [11140]
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I don’t know, and you don’t know either.***
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Jan 10, 2023, 10:14 AM
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Orange Phenom [14588]
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No, but we can make an educated guess.***
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Jan 10, 2023, 10:15 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11140]
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Educated = I sat on the couch and watched some games on TV
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Jan 10, 2023, 12:10 PM
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LOL
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Orange Phenom [14588]
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I'm actually into advanced analytics
Jan 10, 2023, 12:43 PM
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But i know that's not everyone's cup of tea
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Clemson Conqueror [11140]
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Well then…
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Jan 10, 2023, 12:53 PM
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Would you mind telling me the outcomes of a few games that are actually about to happen?
Any sport would be fine.
I’m headed to Vegas.
Thanx
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Orange Phenom [14588]
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Just put your life savings on black
Jan 10, 2023, 12:56 PM
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Your welcome.
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Clemson Conqueror [11140]
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That’s what I thought.***
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Jan 10, 2023, 1:09 PM
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All-TigerNet [5643]
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CU Medallion [20804]
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Ohio State***
Jan 10, 2023, 9:23 AM
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Oculus Spirit [44547]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
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Jan 10, 2023, 9:23 AM
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With what we were dealing with in DJ and our unwillingness to stick with our strength, the run, I have never thought we were better than OSU. This years team had no business being considered for a top 4 spot and was shocked when we were in the initial rankings. We have witnessed top tier teams first hand and this was not one of them unfortunately.
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National Champion [7760]
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You aren’t going to be able to
Jan 10, 2023, 10:18 AM
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Run the ball 70% of the time and win a national championship. Not in todays game of football. Look at the semifinal games. You think any team is putting up 40-50 points mostly running the ball. No you have to be able to pass. And you need guys who can make big plays. From what I’ve seen, we don’t have that.
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Oculus Spirit [44547]
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Re: You aren’t going to be able to
Jan 10, 2023, 2:24 PM
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@ax7gates We will agree to disagree. If you can run the ball for 4-5 yards a carry why would you not run the ball? We had that going in 2 of our losses.
Danny Ford used to say that when throwing 3 things could happen and 2 of them were bad.
Go with your strength and quit trying to force your biggest weakness.
Was that going to lead us to a national championship, doubtful, but we may have won 2 more games.
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Paw Warrior [4836]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 10:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: Ohio State or Clemson? ] |
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but you think TCU was?
You obviously didn't see them play this year and the horse shoe they had stuck up their butt.
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Oculus Spirit [44547]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 2:20 PM
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They gauge wins and losses not horse shoes and yes they had multiple late game heroics. Yea I would have put TCU in. Who else were they going to put in. 2 loss Alabama or Tenn would have been horrible imo. Made it through their semi as well.
Message was edited by: rhpltmeg®
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Clemson Conqueror [11529]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 12:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Ohio State or Clemson? ] |
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Neither OH State nor UGA dominated their side of the game by running the ball.
Stroud’s scrambling running yards had zero to do with a smash-north run game.
Even Alabama had abandoned their smash-mouth approach to football after our less-talented 2015 and 2016 teams had completely worn out 5heir more-talented teams.
No one wins big anymore without a balanced offense.
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Oculus Spirit [44547]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 2:28 PM
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Ga dominates because of the threat of the run. Their RB may be the first RB taken in the draft. Play action works great when you can run the ball. It’s not sexy but it’s effective.
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CU Guru [1501]
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Campus Hero [13749]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 9:24 AM
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Ohio St was a better team this year, but I believe we would’ve gotten the 4 spot.
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Ring of Honor [22709]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 9:30 AM
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Another reason I am not so sure about that is that the committee kept ranking 2-loss SEC teams ahead of us. They clearly did not respect the ACC this year and I doubt winning the conference would have helped out that much. I think the head-to-head comparison of a common opponent might have carried more weight and I also think there is a Big 10/SEC bias that carries some weight when you have a human element involved in the selection.
It clearly would have been a close call and I would certainly agree it could have gone either way.
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Ultimate Tiger [33658]
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most of the talkn heads agreed that the loss to ND
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Jan 10, 2023, 9:29 AM
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was not enough to keep a 11-1 ACC champ out of the playoff ......after all of the other dominos fell.
Clemson is in and OSU is out, no doubt about it.
Yes.. i still believe if Clemson had only lost 1 game they would be the better choice for a CFP spot.
Why?
Simple.. I'm a Clemson fan. If you want to talk about what ifs and fairy tale scenarios.. IM GOING TO SAY CLEMSON
Message was edited by: GeeVille Tiger®
Message was edited by: GeeVille Tiger®
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CU Guru [1501]
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I don't recall those talking hesds?
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Jan 10, 2023, 12:33 PM
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But I do recall the talking heads who agreed the uSC fiasco cost us the cfp spot.
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Ultimate Tiger [33658]
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1 of the 1st things they mentioned on the ESPN "CFP" who's
Jan 10, 2023, 1:16 PM
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in 12 hr long show
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CU Guru [1501]
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So one guy, mentioned what exactly?
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Jan 10, 2023, 1:24 PM
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Again, my recollection is that most people, including the announcers of the uSC game believed that loss is what cost us a spot. Too, I think the playoff rankings reflected us being able to jump in the playoffs, if we would've won that uSC game. I mean heck, were 7th going into the Orange Bowl, after the uSC loss.
I think it's clear that if we beat uSC and UNC, then we jump Ohio State. I do think that was the majority opinion as well.
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Ultimate Tiger [33658]
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i didn't know where your confusion was until
Jan 10, 2023, 2:54 PM
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i re-read my original post. I mistyped.
I fixed it
"was not enough to keep a 11-1 ACC champ out of the playoff "
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Trainer [45]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
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Jan 10, 2023, 9:29 AM
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We are not in the hemisphere with OSU, ALA, Mich, etc. Surely everyone has watched these teams play and can see clearly the drop off in performance between the top tier teams and us. Georgia would have beaten us as badly as they did TCU. Out-coached and out-played all year long. Don't worry though..."we're stacked and it's a great place to be.....". Being cocksure and not delivering is not a place a coach wants to be.
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CU Guru [1501]
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Hard to tell what we can be until we see more games
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Jan 10, 2023, 1:19 PM
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with the new QB. Should go without saying that we've already shown marked improvement in two games with a still-deveoping QB.
The QB position is the bottom line root cause for "only" 10 and 11 wins the last 2 years. With a good QB, we may beat UGA last year and NC State and Pitt are completely different games. This year we were completely inept offensively against ND, and we obviously needed scores to stop them from being able to focus on their run. We whip the snot out of uSC with a good QB, and hard to pinpoint the reason for the redzone issues against UT, but we literally one every measurable on that game except for their 3 long passes resulting in TDs.
Point is, it's hard to say we're "not in the same hemisphere" with the elite, simply because good QB play would have drastically changed the outcome of the last two seasons.
It's quite clear - nobody is "elite" until they have elite QB play. We're close. Let's see how things look next year, but there's reason for optimism. Maybe by August fans will get back on board.
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Game Changer [1999]
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Re: Hard to tell what we can be until we see more games
Jan 10, 2023, 2:00 PM
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Ha...."Except their 3 long passes resulting in Touchdowns"
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?
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110%er [3931]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 9:31 AM
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Not really.
The one pro-Clemson argument I can think of is that it would allow them to continue to hide behind the fig leaf of 'valuing conference titles'.
Every other measurable seems to go in OSU's favor.
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Playmaker [370]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
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Jan 10, 2023, 9:31 AM
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No. We proved that against UT. We would have gotten blasted worse.
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Clemson Icon [27767]
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Now that the season is over, given our record the past
Jan 10, 2023, 9:31 AM
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two years, no, I don't believe we would have fared better than Ohio State.
Our main problem was our Quarterback, in my opinion, a misread by our staff with his recruitment. Either we weren't able to adjust to his talents or he wasn't able to adjust to our schemes or both.
I believe that one critical problem affected the play of the entire team, and, hence, we did about as good as we could have in both seasons.
Can we recover? Of course...we've been there, done it before. The burden is on the staff to get its minds readjusted, then enervate the team. The good news I am convinced that Cade Klubnik is going to be the type of catalyst we need!
Message was edited by: hartins®
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Redshirt [99]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
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Jan 10, 2023, 9:32 AM
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yeah i didnt want this years team in the playoff. Now that we have two very recent championship teams to compare against, this years team was no where near those levels, and we would have got in only by being a one loss P5 conference champ. Ohio State was definitely the better team this year
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Orange Elite [5490]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 9:43 AM
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It doesn't really matter. OSU gave them the better game. It probably woudld've been the easiest playoff ever for GA if Clemson got in over OSU. I think we would have gotten in just by having the extra win and a conf champion. But it's a mute point, I don't think this team or the coaching staff mainly would've been ready for that. Maybe if they get their act together and have a whole off season to regroup they'll get their shot again next season. The talent is there, its up to this coaching staff across the board to put everything together like it should be.
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All-In [10858]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
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Jan 10, 2023, 9:46 AM
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There is no bigger Clemson than I am, but if any member of the Playoff committee watched our game against Notre Dame they would have a hard time voting for us. Ohio State has far better talent than we do and that was confirmed when we lost to South Carolina and Tennessee.
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Letterman [151]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
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Jan 10, 2023, 9:50 AM
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Ohio St. was the better choice. UGA would have done to us what they did to TCU.
We aren't the same team that we were sadly.
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Commissioner [1273]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 9:56 AM
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No
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Hall of Famer [9040]
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We won our conference. They didnt. We'd have been in, period***
Jan 10, 2023, 10:21 AM
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Paw Warrior [4836]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 11:00 AM
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This wasn't a championship caliber Clemson team.
but worse teams than this one have made the playoffs.
and we could have won a championship last year with decent QB play even though that wasn't a championship caliber team either except on defense.
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Clemson Conqueror [11529]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 11:59 AM
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No and no.
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CU Guru [1501]
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By virtue of our conf championship, we get it in.
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Jan 10, 2023, 12:31 PM
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Really no question about that IMO.
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Ring of Honor [22709]
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Re: By virtue of our conf championship, we get it in.
Jan 10, 2023, 12:41 PM
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Because of their mandate to get the best 4 teams in the playoffs, I think they would have only put Clemson ahead of OSU if they really believed Clemson was the better of the two and I can't say for sure if that is really something most of them believed. Especially, if it took a last-minute FG for us to get by SC which you would have to assume is what would have happened had we not fumbled the kick. Had we taken SC to the woodshed and beaten them by at least 3 TDs then the discussion looks a lot different.
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CU Guru [1501]
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The rankings were set up for us to jump OSU if we win the conf championship.
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Jan 10, 2023, 1:30 PM
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We were STILL 7th after the uSC debacle. Without that, I don't really see a way for us to not pass OSU. Conference championships absolutely carry significant measurable weight in the playoff selections. Take that portion of data combined with a uSC win, and we're in. I really don't doubt that at all.
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Ring of Honor [22709]
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Re: The rankings were set up for us to jump OSU if we win the conf championship.
Jan 10, 2023, 2:11 PM
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So, if conference championships matter so much to people who get a vote, how is it that we go undefeated in the ACC, win the conference championship, and beat FSU on their home field, yet the AP votes us 2 slots BEHIND FSU in the final poll?
This is why I say a playoff committee voting for the 4 best teams is not going to be that impressed with our conference championship, especially if they thought OSU was the better team. Usually, 4 conference champions are the 4 best teams but the games actually showed that wasn't necessarily true this year.
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Oculus Spirit [44547]
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Re: The rankings were set up for us to jump OSU if we win the conf championship.
Jan 10, 2023, 2:43 PM
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So, if conference championships matter so much to people who get a vote, how is it that we go undefeated in the ACC, win the conference championship, and beat FSU on their home field, yet the AP votes us 2 slots BEHIND FSU in the final poll?
This is why I say a playoff committee voting for the 4 best teams is not going to be that impressed with our conference championship, especially if they thought OSU was the better team. Usually, 4 conference champions are the 4 best teams but the games actually showed that wasn't necessarily true this year.
Because we lost 2 out of our last 3 games.
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Tiger Spirit [9788]
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We didn't deserve to be in. If we had been, we would've been
Jan 10, 2023, 12:37 PM
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embarrassed. See: Orange Bowl 2022
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Hall of Famer [9040]
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By that logic, TCU didnt either. But that wasnt the question
Jan 10, 2023, 12:42 PM
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Would we have won it? No. But we would have been in nonetheless. 12-1 Conference champ or 11-1 that didnt even win their division. Its not even an argument.
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Paw Master [16652]
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I don’t know if we would have been the better choice but I am
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Jan 10, 2023, 1:05 PM
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still confident that we would have been the choice. A convincing ACC Championship win would have solidified us over Ohio State. Just my opinion.
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National Champion [7567]
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do we really think TCU was one of the 4 best teams?
Jan 10, 2023, 1:20 PM
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granted, they beat Michigan but they won so many games late against middling teams. Alabama was clearly better than TCU and Michigan.
Message was edited by: RC Tiger®
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Game Day Hero [4121]
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To be honest
Jan 10, 2023, 1:22 PM
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With the lack of rules with the playoff committee, there's no way of telling. But for years they have said conference Championships matter. So going by that, Clemson should have gotten in.
We would have gotten killed. But I do think we would have given Georgia a better game. 45-20 or something like that.
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Orange Blooded [2180]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 1:27 PM
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Great points.
OSU was clearly a better team and should have gone in over Clemson.
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Hall of Famer [9040]
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"Clearly" based on what exactly?
Jan 10, 2023, 1:45 PM
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You do recall they got absolutely housed by Michigan - who lost to TCU btw.
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Oculus Spirit [44547]
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Re: "Clearly" based on what exactly?
Jan 10, 2023, 2:51 PM
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Yea we could argue who what when and where but it would not matter.
I believe they had the right 4 in there going off their records, and every year you are going to hear about reasons why they believe someone was in or not in.
I think in the last 5-10 years the best team has won the national championship and at the end of the day that’s what we all want.
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CU Guru [1548]
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Re: Ohio State or Clemson?
Jan 10, 2023, 3:11 PM
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No way the current Clemson Football team is better than the OSU football team...
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Replies: 57
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