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Conferences, Money, Realignment, and Clemson
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All-In [30593]
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Conferences, Money, Realignment, and Clemson
Nov 26, 2012, 9:46 PM
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Just a few things to think about for discussion purposes. Some are facts, some are conjecture for discussion.
1. The Rose Bowl ($80 mil) and the Sugar Bowl ($80 mil) are significantly more than the Orange Bowl ($55 mil)
2. The TV contracts and money speak for themselves, but combined with bowl payouts, that's a pretty big difference.
3. The B1G will give UMD over $32 mil annually. Do you think there is an ACC school that will turn that down if offered? Yes, stay in the ACC at $15-17 mil per year... much better.
4. What if the B12 talk and conference jumping died down, not just b/c of ND, but also b/c of talks with the SEC, which no one thought could happen? What if that were true?
5. What if the BOT were starting to get fed up with Barker's continued support for the ACC?
6. Do you think the B10 is done? Do you think the SEC is done? Do you think the B12 is done? If not... where do you think the remaining teams to fill out those spots come from?
Just food for thought and discussion.
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Paw Warrior [4848]
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Would love to believe the BOT is fed up. Barker will...
Nov 26, 2012, 9:50 PM
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take us down with the ship.
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All-TigerNet [12666]
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Yes, and out BOT is weak. They wouln't have the nerve
Nov 26, 2012, 9:58 PM
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to stand up to him even if they felt they should.
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All-TigerNet [12666]
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Would love to believe the BOT is fed up. Barker will...
Nov 26, 2012, 10:24 PM
[ in reply to Would love to believe the BOT is fed up. Barker will... ] |
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GREAT POST!!! barker is our biggest problem...IMHO if the SEc did invite us he would refuse!!even if we did go he would not let us do the things that would make us competitive in the SEC.....it just will n ot happen if barker stays
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110%er [3688]
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Fool me once (Max Lennon), shame on you. Fool me twice,
Nov 26, 2012, 9:58 PM
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shame on me.
I'm grateful for my Clemson education. But it's athletics that keep me coming back (and what brought me there in the first place).
Don't mess this up Barker.
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Redshirt [98]
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Clemson to the SEC would be the best thing to happen to us
Nov 26, 2012, 10:00 PM
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since IPTAY was formed in 1934. The BOT will have to put both feet down on Barker to get this done - his loyalty appears to be to the ACC, not Clemson.
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CU Medallion [20197]
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If CU were to get offer to join SEC I believe I might
Nov 26, 2012, 10:04 PM
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go "postal" if it was revealed CU turned it down.
Clemson needs to be very careful which path they choose to follow in all of this. I have my preference, as we all do, but I don't get to make the call. But at the end of the day, if the wrong choice is made, it ain't too hard to find good football close to Pensacola.
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Solid Orange [1374]
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Re: Conferences, Money, Realignment, and Clemson
Nov 26, 2012, 10:12 PM
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I could be wrong, but I don't see the SEC wanting Clemson or any other school in a current SEC state. They don't bring enough extra revenue to make up for splitting the pie more ways. They'll want VT and NC State/UNC to complete their southeastern footprint.
That leaves two choices for Clemson, try to keep the ACC going or try to go to the Big 12. Going to the Big 12 isn't the ideal situation due to travel and academics, but it might be the only want Clemson gets enough revenue to keep up with South Carolina. The ACC will always have "dead weight" programs drag down the per-school TV revenue numbers. Wake Forest, Duke, and BC are killing the conference.
I'd like to see Clemson, FSU, GT, and Miami all go together to the Big 12 along with two other eastern schools to form the Big 16. NC State and VT would be the best to join them, but I think they'll go to the SEC.
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All-In [30593]
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Don't buy the "CU is already in the footprint" stuff...
Nov 26, 2012, 10:17 PM
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I'm sure there is some truth in that... but the SEC is a national brand.
Also keep this in mind... If you're the SEC, would you want a B1G network or B12 network available in FL, GA, or SC? No... you would want to protect the south.
You do that by inviting FSU and CU.
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Dynasty Maker [3240]
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Inviting CU doesn't protect much turf in the South...
Nov 26, 2012, 10:23 PM
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If you guys were located in Georgia or Florida, it would make more sense, since those states have more eyeballs and more recruits (gobs more recruits). If the SEC goes after Clemson, I don't think protecting turf would be the reason. It would more likely be a cultural fit, large fanbase, good ties to FSU. I could see you guys as a package with FSU, where the primary purpose is to keep the B12 or B1G out of Florida...protecting the state of South Carolina would be beside the point.
It's not that I think CU going to the SEC is out of the question, BTW.
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All-In [30593]
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There's a lot of CU eyeballs in GA... FSU too***
Nov 26, 2012, 10:25 PM
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Dynasty Maker [3240]
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Not enough CU eyeballs for the BTN to be basic cable in ATL*
Nov 26, 2012, 10:32 PM
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*
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All-In [30593]
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agreed....
Nov 26, 2012, 10:35 PM
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it will be interesting... especially with UVA's board meeting tomorrow. (possibly)
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Orange Phenom [15009]
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Re: agreed....
Nov 26, 2012, 10:36 PM
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is that from the dude or the goober out of texas. lol
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110%er [6938]
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Re: it has to be one of them.***
Nov 26, 2012, 11:11 PM
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National Champion [7933]
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Re: Not enough CU eyeballs for the BTN to be basic cable in ATL*
Nov 26, 2012, 10:57 PM
[ in reply to Not enough CU eyeballs for the BTN to be basic cable in ATL* ] |
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Not enough eyeballs from Ga Tech fans for that either. I live in Ohio and it took years of irate phone calls from OSU fans to get it on my local cable. GT fans cannot force that on fans of a state OWNED by UGA. If Big Ten thinks otherwise, they are making a mistep.
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Starter [252]
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It isn't so much protecting the State of SC market, but
Nov 26, 2012, 10:44 PM
[ in reply to Inviting CU doesn't protect much turf in the South... ] |
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southern recruiting territory in FL, GA and SC. If the B12 brought in FSU, CU, GT and UM that would open SE recruiting to UT, OU, & Ok ST. Add in an influx of big conference games to the region that in many cases may overshadow the big SEC games, i.e., FSU-UT would be bigger than most any SEC game of the week as might a CU-OU matchup. The same story applies to the BIG getting GT. If I'm the SEC I don't want any of that and much of it can be stopped with #15 and 16.
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Commissioner [908]
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If it were second tier teams or Clemson and FSU, I can see
Nov 26, 2012, 10:23 PM
[ in reply to Don't buy the "CU is already in the footprint" stuff... ] |
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your point, but VT is a premier program with a passionate fanbase. They might want them regardless of TV markets. Hard to argue that for the NC schools except NCSU if they weren't garbage for the last 10 years.
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All-In [30593]
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I think both UNC and NCST are more valuable than VPI
Nov 26, 2012, 10:28 PM
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This isn't about how good you are on the field. Heck, I think the SEC would take UVA over VPI, in a hurry.
That being said... when the smoke clears, VPI is probably SEC bound... especially if UVA goes B1G.
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Dynasty Maker [3240]
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Agree on that*
Nov 26, 2012, 10:39 PM
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*
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Orange Immortal [63997]
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I love the folks hanging on to the 1990's "Cable TV"
Nov 26, 2012, 10:27 PM
[ in reply to Don't buy the "CU is already in the footprint" stuff... ] |
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business model.....do they not see the developments in media today and coming in the near future with IP-based Smart TV's?
Think about how telephone networks have changed in the last 10 years with long-distance charges and landlines.....TV is following suit. There will be no state-based "footprints" or "regional cable packages" by the times the conferences are done re-aligning. Read up on some of this development...only your grandma will have cable TV in 10 years.
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Trainer [46]
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Re: I love the folks hanging on to the 1990's "Cable TV"
Nov 26, 2012, 10:45 PM
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Good point and something I haven't really seen addressed. Care to elaborate on how such changes may or may not affect TV contract monies?
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Fan [70]
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Re: I love the folks hanging on to the 1990's "Cable TV"
Nov 26, 2012, 10:49 PM
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I believe sports contracts will continue to become more valuable. People will always be able to record the shows they want, or find some way to watch them without commercials. But people will always want to watch sports live, making the ad space more valuable.
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Head Coach [773]
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York, I agree with you on that point.
Nov 27, 2012, 8:33 AM
[ in reply to Don't buy the "CU is already in the footprint" stuff... ] |
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Would the SEC want Okla & TX teams fans coming to the southeast several times a year. Plus whats a more appealing national matchup, Bama vs NCSt or Bama vs Clem???
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Freshman [4]
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Re: Conferences, Money, Realignment, and Clemson
Nov 26, 2012, 10:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Conferences, Money, Realignment, and Clemson ] |
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I don't rule out Clemson & F.S.U. at 18, or 20 member conferences, but it is clear that the SEC wants into N.C. and Va.
If the B1G decides to add 4 more the SEC will too!
Clemson & F.S.U. both add to Tier 1 & 2 content even if they aren't new markets they still add value to the SEC, just not as much as the new cable households. Both however would please CBS, and neither would be a loss to ESPN who retains the top two television draws in the ACC.
Whether you get considered as additions 17 & 18 depends upon whether other prime markets are still available. Laugh if you want to but Pitt brings such markets to the SEC. They add part of Ohio, and part of the Maryland market. If Penn State gets financial aide cut off they Pitt could become the flagship of that state.
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Freshman [4]
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Re: Conferences, Money, Realignment, and Clemson
Nov 26, 2012, 10:42 PM
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Now at 20 the SEC might look like this:
East: Clemson Florida, Georgia, Auburn, Vanderbilt
South: Alabama, F.S.U., Miss St., S.Car., Tennessee
North: Kentucky, N.C.State, Pitt, V.Tech, W.V.U.
West: Arkansas, L.S.U. Ole Miss, Missouri, Texas A&M
At 20 schools in 4 rotating half divisions there would no longer be 4 conferences, but 3. The Big 12 will be mostly absorbed by the PAC freeing West Virginia. If this happens it means that the Big 10 has taken Notre Dame and to get them had to add Syracuse & Boston College. It also means they likely took Ga Tech. If the SEC goes to 18 without an add like Pitt then Clemson and F.S.U. are definitely in the mix. Great crowds, popular in the area, good television draw, travels well & good academics at C.U..
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Associate AD [1086]
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The Big 17
Nov 26, 2012, 10:22 PM
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East:
Miami
FSU
GT
CU
UVA
VA Tech
WVU
Pitt
West:
TX
TX Tech
TCU
Baylor
K-State
Kansas
Oklahoma
OK St
Iowa St.
The east plays 7 divisional games
The west plays 8 divisional games
Only divisional games count in the divisional standings.
1 cross divisional game is scheduled to round out 8 or 9 conference games per team.
This conference would have no "cup cakes" (except UVA and Iowa St)
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Offensive Star [308]
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could you get Iowa st. to go to the big 10. they don't fit***
Nov 26, 2012, 11:00 PM
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Associate AD [1086]
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The Big 10 was stupid enough to take Maryland!***
Nov 27, 2012, 8:24 AM
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Athletic Dir [1140]
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UVa board meeting tomorrow....
Nov 26, 2012, 10:27 PM
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Speculation on sports radio has the notion that it is about a potential move to the B1G TEN.
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All-In [30593]
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check you tmail***
Nov 26, 2012, 10:30 PM
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110%er [6938]
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Re: We are losing all of those powerhouses. it is going to
Nov 26, 2012, 11:12 PM
[ in reply to UVa board meeting tomorrow.... ] |
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be hard to replace them and Maryland
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110%er [6938]
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Re: I forgot about them being good at lacrosse or
Nov 26, 2012, 11:27 PM
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whatever it is called.
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CU Guru [1904]
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I really like your "Big 16" idea.
Nov 26, 2012, 10:47 PM
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It's starting to get me thinking..
East Division:
Clemson
FSU
WVU
Miami
Pitt
GT
VT
Louisville
West:
Oklahoma
OSU
TCU
Texas
ISU
K-State
Baylor
Kansas
Clemson's schedule would look a little like this.
1. UGA (OOC NON-CUPCAKE)
2. Ball State (CUPCAKE)
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: I really like your "Big 16" idea.
Nov 26, 2012, 11:16 PM
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This would be a good conference and likely a money maker. I can't recall all the members of the current Big 12 but as long as you aren't kicking anyone out then this may work.
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Orange Immortal [65484]
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Re: Conferences, Money, Realignment, and Clemson
Nov 26, 2012, 10:48 PM
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1. True.
2. True.
3. There may be ACC schools that would turn that down. It would depend on what the ACC had up it's sleeve. We found out last time it had something up it's sleeve, and it was something none of the prognosticators were prognosticating.
4. Could be. Speculation.
5. Could be. Speculation.
6. I doubt they are done, in that conference realignment is almost certainly not done. Who/when/how/where requires a lot of speculation.
I'll admit it is interesting, and makes for great conversation. Nothing at all wrong with that. At this point, it's just a lot of speculation, however, and we've all seen how far off the mark that can be in terms of what actually happens vs. what one may have thought would happen, no matter how well reasoned and thought out it may be.
Now, if somebody actually knows something, that would make for even more interesting conversation.
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CU Guru [1904]
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Re: I really like your "Big 16" idea.
Nov 26, 2012, 10:53 PM
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(Continued)
UGA (OOC NON CUPCAKE)
BALL STATE (CUPCAKE)
FSU (CON)
PITT (CON)
WVU (CON)
OKLAHOMA (CROSS CON)
BYE
MIAMI (CON)
GT (CON)
LOUISVILLE (CON)
K-STATE (CROSS CON)
THE CITIDAL (OOC CUPCAKE)
SOUTH CAROLINA (RIVAL)
Anyways, that's what I would like to see.
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Associate AD [810]
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York - it's always about money and then the academic fit
Nov 26, 2012, 11:11 PM
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The academics and Prez at Clemson like the fit of the ACC but would also love the Big 10 if that were offered. I don't think the academics want to be affiliated with the SEC brand.
Then there is the money issue. Why would the SEC add a school that does not add cable boxes in a particular state. Clemson does not add the revenue that would make other member schools in the SEC vote "Yes" to Clemson - every current member would take a pay cut and nobody votes for a pay cut if they don't have to.
Also on the money issue, did you forget about the $50 million buyout for the ACC? Sure Maryland is leaving but word is they vote or sign for the buyout and will challenge it. You'll recall Clemson voted for it.
But since you are asking for speculation:
The Big 10's grab of UM and Rutgers was a shock and it happened quickly and quietly. I think the Big 10 is now done. That leaves the SEC and Big 12 as possible expansion candidates for ACC schools.
I don't think the SEC ends up with any ACC schools though I believe it would add any of UNC, UVA, VPI or NC State if those schools showed interest. I doubt those schools ever become interested as long as the ACC is still viable. I read some of the UM message board after the Big 10 move was announced and it seemed the vast majority were not in favor of leaving the ACC. With regard to the 4 schools the SEC may be interested in, except for VPI the North Carolina and Virgina schools are ACC to the core and doubtful to leave. So I think the SEC is somewhat stuck at 14 until one of the state schools where they don't have a presence becomes available.
That leaves the Big 12 which must expand at some point. The Big 12 could add FSU, Clemson and a couple of other eastern schools - this seems logical. The thing is, does the Big 12 really offer that much more money for one of these ACC schools to leave especially if there is $50 million to pay before a school can even leave.
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Commissioner [942]
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I'm hearing that adding TAM and Mizzou has given the SEC
Nov 26, 2012, 11:16 PM
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lots of headaches with scheduling, keeping rivalries, trying to make all its members happy, etc. For that reason, adding more teams is VERY unlikely anytime soon, according to sources I trust.
With the value that new markets provide to a conference network (the SEC establishing its own network, is a given), if and/or when they go to 16 members, their dream additions are from the states of North Carolina and Virginia, according to my sources.
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Aficionado [158]
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SEC has a path to the Orange... ACC has no such path to the
Nov 27, 2012, 8:39 AM
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...Sugar
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