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Clemson Icon [24158]
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National Champion [7632]
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Re: The misinformation machine
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Mar 3, 2025, 8:54 AM
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While I suppose we can't be sure of everyone who was actually in the meeting Dem Senator Chris Murphy posted right afterwards that he and others had met with Zelensky prior to the Trump meeting and had received assurances from Zelensky that he wouldn't accept the deal he had just flown across the Atlantic to sign. He even posted a pic of himself and Zelensky in the meeting.
So Zelensky agrees to a deal, flies over here, meets with Chris Murphy and others who advise him not to sign the deal, then walks into the Oval Office and shows his ###. I suppose you can hold on tight to the narrative that the meeting never happened but, if thats the case, your problem isn't with misinformed conspiracy loving MAGA types, it's with Dem Senator Chris Murphy who is apparently just making #### up and doctoring photos to pretend this meeting and what was discussed actually did happen.
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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Zelensky met with a bipartisan group of US senators in DC
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Mar 3, 2025, 9:03 AM
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that included several Republicans. That has nothing to do with the admittedly fictional claim posted by "Peachy Keenan" that now might as well be fact in the minds of millions of misinformed Twitter users.
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Clemson Conqueror [11332]
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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Re: This is an odd read from ABC news. It says "friendly coaching" was offered
Mar 3, 2025, 9:17 AM
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Whatever happened at that meeting with a bipartisan group of US Senators doesn't change the fact that it was a completely made-up fantasy (literally admitted by the person who came up with it) that Zelensky had a conference call with Blinken, Nuland, Rice, and Vindman on the flight to DC.
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TigerNet Icon [152020]
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National Champion [7763]
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Can't argue this one..***
Mar 3, 2025, 1:26 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11332]
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Can you provide a link to that info please? I found that Murphy was indeed with
Mar 3, 2025, 9:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: The misinformation machine ] |
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Zelensky prior to the Trump meeting, but nothing about what was discussed.
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Valley Protector [1467]
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Clemson Conqueror [11332]
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The misleading headline "Met with Dems" in what was clearly a bipartisan
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Mar 3, 2025, 9:17 AM
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meeting tends to make me think that article might not be a good place for real information.
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Orange Blooded [2393]
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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Re: The misinformation machine
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Mar 3, 2025, 9:12 AM
[ in reply to Re: The misinformation machine ] |
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The only thing Chris Murphy said about it was that Zelensky said he wouldn't accept a bad ceasefire deal that sold out his country. That is in no way evidence that Zelensky was coached by Blinken, Nuland, Rice, and Vindman in a conference call.
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TigerNet Icon [152020]
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And here's you, continuing the misinformation.
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Mar 3, 2025, 9:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: The misinformation machine ] |
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Typical. Stop being a hack. Also, I'm going to let water know to stop being wet.
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Orange Phenom [14752]
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Oh... that meeting happened with the Senators before the Oval Office debacle...
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Mar 3, 2025, 11:12 AM
[ in reply to Re: The misinformation machine ] |
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https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1895508100595204115
It's becoming pretty clear by Zelensky refusing to sign this same mineral rights deal two weeks ago with Secretary Bessent in Ukraine, then with VP Vance in Munich that Zelensky was getting bad advice from someone. Add to it that after refusing to sign in Munich it was Zelensky (not a Trump Admin invite) that said he wanted to come to DC to sign this same deal. Blowing this signing off twice only to turn the third mineral signing opportunity into a public spectacle really starts to smell of a bad faith strategy that Zelensky planned and acted out.
Zelensky either did this on his own or he took some really bad advice from folks who either want the war to continue (for whatever reason) OR would rather see Ukraine burn and die than have the Trump Admin achieving a peace deal. I certainly hope it ain't the latter but in this hyper-partisan political environment I wouldn't put it past some on the left.
Now after meeting with European leaders Zelensky is stating he still wants to sign the US mineral rights deal... Does he really mean it this time?? He's had 3 opportunities to do so and turned the last one into a monumental public disaster. Can the US trust that Zelensky really wants this deal and is supportive of a US effort to see if we can work out a secure, lasting peace with Russia??
Here's the meat of it.... Thus far, the only acceptable security guarantee to Zelensky has been Ukraine NATO membership. No Russian leader, much less Putin, is going to ever agree to Ukraine being in NATO. The Russians won't even come to the table if that is being touted much less considered.
Therefore Zelensky, or some other leader from Ukraine if not him, is going to have to come around to the reality that Ukraine will not be a part of NATO and that Russia is going to keep some amount of land they now occupy in Eastern Ukraine. The best deal that Ukraine is going to get is that they maintain their sovereignty with a security guarantee through US investment in Ukraine (i.e. rare earth minerals to give the US an interest in Ukraine) AND an established DMZ that is patrolled/occupied by European troops.
That's it - that's as good of a deal as Ukraine is going to get. If Ukraine keeps dorking around with this - listening to the bad advice they are getting about dragging this war on - they could very likely loose much more than just Eastern Ukraine...
Maybe Zelensky's meeting with the Europeans will drive home a couple of facts after he wading through the Western European Ukraine virtue signalling. Statements of love and support mean nothing unless it can change the battlefield condition. Western Europe is not going to provide Ukraine's biggest need - manpower to fill the front lines - that much is clear. Furthermore, maybe now Zelensky also understands that most of Western Europe's war industry has atrophied since the end of the cold war and they are ill equipped, if not incapable, of sustaining his ongoing war effort.
The battlefield reality always wins. The moralizing, pearl clutching, virtue signalling, and political posturing and narratives mean nothing to the battlefield reality. The battlefield reality is that Ukraine is losing the most important numbers game in this fight - manpower. I have laid this out numerous times in previous posts. Weapons and technology can do a lot to temporarily hold off the hordes but eventually manpower shortages will be Ukraine's downfall in a static battlefield. Every day it is getting worse for Ukraine and they need to pursue an end to this conflict before they risk losing a whole generation of men that they will desperately need to rebuild their country and give them a future.
Still think this is a good recap of what has been going on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4MzGljlpr8&t=932s
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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Re: Oh... that meeting happened with the Senators before the Oval Office debacle...
Mar 3, 2025, 11:40 AM
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I'm not reading all that, but the person who started the rumor admitted she made it up. Regardless of what you think might have happened, there is zero actual evidence that there was a "conference call" on the flight to DC, or that those 4 people participated in it.
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Orange Phenom [14752]
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Re: Oh... that meeting happened with the Senators before the Oval Office debacle...
Mar 3, 2025, 11:51 AM
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I'm not reading all that, but the person who started the rumor admitted she made it up. Regardless of what you think might have happened, there is zero actual evidence that there was a "conference call" on the flight to DC, or that those 4 people participated in it.
Perhaps you should read it and maybe you'll learn something or at least get an intellectual discussion you don't get from your leftist echo chamber news sources...
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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Re: Oh... that meeting happened with the Senators before the Oval Office debacle...
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Mar 3, 2025, 11:56 AM
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It's irrelevant to the topic at hand, and I don't get my news from "leftist echo chamber sources". The story about the conference call was completely made up "speculation". The person who started the rumor admitted it. Whatever happened at the meeting with the bipartisan group of senators doesn't change that.
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Ring of Honor [21589]
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Re: Oh... that meeting happened with the Senators before the Oval Office debacle...
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Mar 3, 2025, 12:02 PM
[ in reply to Oh... that meeting happened with the Senators before the Oval Office debacle... ] |
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I personally am not particularly concerned about Ukraine getting all its Eastern territory back...Crimea really was never a part of Ukraine anyhow and in fact was only assigned to the Ukraine SSR about 75 years back in an administrative move due mostly to geography. I don't see them getting a lot of the Donbass back either; a lot of those areas are heavily ethnic Russian anyhow and most of the Ukrainians have long-since fled. Plus, let's face it - the Russian predilection for pounding everything in front of them to rubble with artillery means those areas are pretty much cratered like the surface of the moon. Rebuilding those regions are going to take hundreds of billions of dollars that neither Ukraine nor Russia have. (Russia is absolutely not going to pay reparations, regardless of how much they should.)
I agree a peace deal absolutely needs to happen...but I do think Zelensky's being smart by refusing to not bend the knee. I personally think the equation - probably correct - that he's come up with is this: if Donald fails to deliver a peace deal, he looks like a complete idiot, and worse, ineffective. (Not that Donald needs any help looking stupid.) I also think Zelensky perceives - again, correctly - that Donald is, uhm, unduly influenced (that's a nice word for it) by Putin and will deliver to Putin the best possible terms...and thought he could bully Zelensky into them.
IMHO, Zelensky's just staking out his own starting bargaining position. The last thing you do at the jump is start by caving to Putin or Donald's demands; they never bargain in anything resembling good faith and if Zelensky does that the deal will only get worse and worse until it's broken altogether. I think he likely knows well Ukraine will not get NATO membership, but I do think he's wise to insist on concrete security guarantees...which have not been offered by Donald yet.
Meekly eating Donald and Putin's bullsh!t is not the way to get what Ukraine needs, and Zelensky knows it. I think he also knows Trump loves to bluster but is capable of doing a complete and utterly shameless 180 when confronted. And at the same time...if you look, Zelensky did leave out a potential olive branch.
I very much think Zelensky is just doing (actual) hardball negotiation. At the end of the day Donald does have to deliver a deal - because he said he could.
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Clemson Icon [24809]
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Re: The misinformation machine
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Mar 3, 2025, 9:10 AM
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That's part of the nature of being MAGA and win that cult. You have to be a sucker to qualify.
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Ring of Honor [23704]
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The maga in my family spread misinformation on Facebook all the time.
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Mar 3, 2025, 9:22 AM
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And now that it will be easier, I can't imagine this bothers the putin/trump/musk team at all.
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Ultimate Tiger [38875]
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Re: The misinformation machine
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Mar 3, 2025, 9:23 AM
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When reality doesn’t favor your preconceived opinions, create your own.
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Clemson Icon [27793]
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Like "Russian Collusion" BEFORE Trump ever took office the 1st time...?
Mar 3, 2025, 11:32 AM
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I'm still waiting on TREASON charges for Billary, Strzok, and Page... No statute of limitations for that.
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TigerNet Icon [152020]
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You still don't understand what "treason" is, do you?
Mar 3, 2025, 11:45 AM
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You have the internet in front of you. Look up the definition.
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Clemson Icon [27793]
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Yes I do... When I get the time, I'll pull the statute for you since you seem
Mar 3, 2025, 11:47 AM
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incapable.
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CU Medallion [20786]
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that machine is nearly perfected
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Mar 3, 2025, 9:25 AM
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1) perfected from being able to obfuscate anything and everything and 2) allowing for ways for those who participate and amplify online to easily monetize
Also we are at the point where the ends justfy the means for many supporting Trump. This is especially true for many in the New Apostolic Reformation movement.
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Clemson Icon [27793]
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James Baker had it 'going on' at Twitter before Musk tossed his axx...
Mar 3, 2025, 11:36 AM
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You people are so biased and naive.
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Ring of Honor [21589]
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Re: The misinformation machine
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Mar 3, 2025, 10:07 AM
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The first time I really started getting aware of this as a phenomena was right after Dabo took over as head coach and started winning recruiting wars with South Carolina again. These Carolina posters over on GCN - I remember one guy called "Sportsuites" in particular - started posting these really elaborate conspiracy theories on how Dabo was paying off players via Newspring Church, completely ignoring the fact that even after Clemson started winning big under Dabo, Carolina still kept getting the kids like Jadaveon Clowney who weren't even troubling themselves to hide the fact that they had their hands out.
It was wild to watch. It was sort of like listening to 14-year-old teenage boys swap lies about how many girls they'd slept with. And their tales just sort of grew, rolling downhill like a giant sticky ball gaining mass as they went, until Dabo had himself a secret shadow network of street agents (they couldn't actually name any, mind you) moving offshore cash to hide it even from the IRS, even as old-school SEC boosters like a certain Rock Hill car dealer (who got himself banned from any official affiliation with the school) openly approached recruits on the sidelines during football games. (And took pictures of himself doing it because, well, ego. People had to see how important he actually was, otherwise what was the point?)
I remember thinking then: why can these guys not even bother to check basic, easily verifiable facts? But even when obvious glaring falsities were pointed out, they'd just double and triple down, spin even more elaborate tales, and keep right on adding the the pile, as if you could make something real just by piling enough bullsh!t onto it.
And then a couple of years later, I noticed something troubling: far from dying out, this phenomena instead started going national...and started getting applied to politics. By 2016 we had QAnon...that's when I personally really remember the whole thing getting truly batsh!t.
Now it's just the new normal.
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Orange Blooded [2210]
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Back in 2014-2015 in my
Mar 3, 2025, 2:58 PM
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programming and software development days, I started to notice the obviously fake news sites. I'm not talking about right-leaning rags, I'm talking about pants-on-fire news sites that would make the National Enquirer blush. It's about this time that people started sharing these prolifically on social media and it became clear that obviously fake information was having a profound impact on public discourse, specifically among the (and I'll be nice) less discerning portions of the population.
I was trying to figure out a way to monetize it in a good way. My idea was to build a web-app that you could paste a link into, and it would run the IP address of the origin server, information about the content creators, use LSI to understand the degrees of meaning in the words on the page (i.e. headlines like "JD Vance TOTALLY DESTROYS VELENSKY" would automatically deduct points in the algo), etc. The goal was to operate it as a nonprofit and get funding from journalism centers of influence to combat online misinformation. Promote it through the AARP and get younger generations educating their boomer parents on the perils of posting articles from Russian sites like allthetruththeydontwantyoutoknow.com (sic). There would be a browser extension, I would open up my API to 3rd party social media platforms, etc.
Well, you know how you get that inkling that "something like this already has to exist?" Well, I was doing some research on databases for authors/publication information and later discovered mediabiasfactcheck.com, which was a different implementation of my same concept. It already existed (I had a similar epiphany with a service call PogoSeat https://www.pogoseat.com/ in the early 2010s). Although I've never thought they've done quite enough to drag the lesser known sites through the mud. My only observation there is that they are probably avoiding feeding into the Streissand effect and don't want to share the names of illegitimate publications that otherwise would not receive as much attention outside of your usual nutcases.
Years later, it was revealed that these were troll farms, likely operated by enemies of the state. The likes of which are still shared right here on our very own P&R board as fact on a daily basis by folks like Tom, NJdev and SOLOS.
If only I had worked harder, maybe we all wouldn't be so ###### stupid. Without this sort of proud culture of consuming gibberish, Trump would have never been elected the first time.
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Orange Blooded [2210]
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It goes without saying that Trump and his ilk
Mar 3, 2025, 2:59 PM
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adopting and co-opting "fake news" was the height of cringe. It's like walking in on someone ######## in your bathroom floor, and then later finding out that they've been going around town telling people that you pooped on THEIR floor. Insanity.
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Campus Hero [13551]
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Anyone who believes anything Victoria Nuland says has no legs to stand on***
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Mar 3, 2025, 11:31 AM
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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Re: Anyone who believes anything Victoria Nuland says has no legs to stand on***
Mar 3, 2025, 11:35 AM
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Who's believing anything Victoria Nuland said? The originator of the rumor admitted she made it all up, aka "speculation". It's now being circulated as fact and even seems to have fooled members of the Trump administration.
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Paw Warrior [4753]
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He's not reading, interpreting, and/or considering the details.
Mar 3, 2025, 1:07 PM
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He's just seeing this as an attack on MAGA ... therefore, is wrong.
An honest person might actually consider the phenomena the OP is describing and consider how that type of miscommunication might be fueling their own biases.
But nope, not with ClemsonTom. For him, all MAGA good. Anything against MAGA bad.
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All-In [10195]
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Interesting to me
Mar 3, 2025, 11:34 AM
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That the misinformation machine now has Zelensky snorting a bunch of coke before the WH meeting with POTUS
Wonder where that came from?
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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Re: Interesting to me
Mar 3, 2025, 11:37 AM
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Clemson Icon [27793]
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White nostril halo or the 'drip'...? ;~)***
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Mar 3, 2025, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to Interesting to me ] |
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TigerNet Icon [152020]
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In a shocking turn of events, Tom downvoted this post.
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Mar 3, 2025, 12:03 PM
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Presumably because nobody should be called on their bullshit, right, Tom?
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Paw Warrior [4753]
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Not if it challenges what he already believes.
Mar 3, 2025, 1:29 PM
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Tom has always followed the 'confirmation bias or bust' frame of mind.
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Game Changer [1905]
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MAGA being gullible and believing lies?
Mar 3, 2025, 12:17 PM
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You don’t say!
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Clemson Sports Icon [52185]
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Saying no one is above the law while our President literally had charges dropped
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Mar 3, 2025, 12:58 PM
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because the President of the United States of American is literally above the law in this country is about as bat #### crazy as you can get.
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Paw Warrior [4753]
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ClemsonTom -- why did you give this a thumbs down?***
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Mar 3, 2025, 1:04 PM
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Ultimate Tiger [34893]
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He doesn't like the competition!***
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Mar 3, 2025, 2:22 PM
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Ultimate Tiger [36205]
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This is a terrific example of what we're up against.
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Mar 3, 2025, 2:24 PM
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LOL at Russian Bot Tom thumbing it down
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Clemson Conqueror [11332]
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Misinformation rolls down both sides of this pile of political poop we are in***
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Mar 3, 2025, 5:14 PM
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Paw Warrior [4753]
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Truth. Also acknowledged by the OP.
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Mar 3, 2025, 5:33 PM
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There's an old adage in the medical community when it comes to making diagnoses:
"If you hear hooves behind you, assume it's a horse, not a zebra."
It's an illustration of looking at the facts as they're presented, and applying reasoning to zero-in on the most likely scenario given all the evidence at hand.
...
We have a lot of people in this country who are more apt to hear hooves and think zebras. And then not only that, once someone gives them a mirror to see for themselves that it's a horse that's behind them, those same people are more likely to call it a fake mirror instead of believing their own eyes.
But luckily we have a 24hr news cycle, polarizing social media apps, and reduced public funding going to education -- which all help empower the people to use logic and reasoning to shape their informed opinions. (lie.)
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Ultimate Tiger [34893]
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Clemson Conqueror [11332]
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Volume - yes. Severity - maybe. That "Biden is fine" poop was actually pushed
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Mar 4, 2025, 9:50 AM
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from the top down. That misinformation was pretty severe - it gave us Trump back.
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Orange Blooded [2439]
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Re: The misinformation machine
Mar 4, 2025, 7:42 AM
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If Fox News wasn’t the maga voice box, Trump never would’ve won a single primary in 2016.
He would be nowhere without Fox News’ editorial support.
If Fox News viewers had viewed authentic news coverage of Trump over the past eight years. He would’ve never received more than single digits in votes.
Americans aren’t dumb they’re just really really gullible and susceptible to the steady stream of misinformation and fake news from Fox “news”
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Orange Blooded [2439]
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Re: The misinformation machine
Mar 4, 2025, 7:43 AM
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If James Murdoch changes Fox News to being a responsible news organization without misinformation and fake news, Trump is toast. Done. Finished.
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