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Oculus Spirit [44686]
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One unsettling aspect of the Proud Boys Prosecution
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Sep 7, 2023, 10:29 AM
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It's called the "trial penalty," wherein a refusal to accept a (often coercive) plea agreement to instead exercise your constitutional right to trial, is met with the penalty of prosecutors seeking punitive sentences well beyond what they would have given you if you took the plea. Why is this bad? Because it completely undermines the extremely important notion of trial by jury. If the prosecutors think your crime is only deserving of an 11 year sentence via a plea, you shouldn't get twice that just for going in front of a jury.
https://twitter.com/CBHessick/status/1699759348522864851
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Oculus Spirit [43195]
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do as you are told or pay
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Sep 7, 2023, 10:31 AM
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the consequences
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Hall of Famer [8172]
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But that's the whole point of the plea.
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Sep 7, 2023, 10:35 AM
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If the plea isn't less severe than the punishment for a guilty verdict, there's no point in not going to trial.
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Hall of Famer [8172]
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Clemson Conqueror [11802]
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Re: There's more. And still more
Sep 7, 2023, 8:18 PM
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It also saves the court system time if the prosecution doesn’t provide potentially exculpatory evidence to defense counsel.
Re trial (and subsequent conviction) of former Alaska Senator, which fortunately ended up with Judge Emmett Sullivan in appeals court and overturned.
Can’t blame the lawless DoJ prosecution team for trying to save the court system money by ‘inducing’ Sen. Stevens to accept the plea deal, though.
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Oculus Spirit [44686]
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This is just one example, and not nearly as strong of a case
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Sep 7, 2023, 11:02 AM
[ in reply to But that's the whole point of the plea. ] |
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as what goes on for indigent defendants where the guilt is less strong, and the coercive elements are basically take the deal, or leave your fate to an understaffed, underpaid PD office.
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Hall of Famer [8172]
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Definitely a part of the two tier justice system.
Sep 7, 2023, 11:17 AM
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Personally, I think it's less about the plea having less severe sentences and more about leveraging the time and money it takes for a trial. I went through a lot of true crime podcasts and coerced confessions and plea deals being in a someone's best interest are definitely recurring themes.
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Clemson Conqueror [11802]
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Re: Definitely a part of the two tier justice system.
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Sep 7, 2023, 8:33 PM
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Given the DoJ’s recent record of getting plea deal convictions via withholding potentially exculpatory evidence from defense counsel, then the plea deal offers from the DoJ need to be for far less jail time than the current plea deal guidelines.
Re conviction of J6 protester Jacob Chansley (the goofball in the horns outfit). Mr. Chansley’s conviction was via a plea deal in which DoJ prosecution had denied exculpatory video evidence of Mr. Chansley’s collegial demeanor with Capitol Police while inside of the Capitol Building. His conviction on the grounds of ‘violent behavior’ was pure contrivance. Just so happened that when the newly seated Republican majority in Congress at the beginning of 2023 got some of the previous confidential security footage (confidential on the excuse of it being of ‘national security’ concern), Mr. Chansley was immediately released from jail … no appeals trial in play … on the ‘coincidental’ grounds of Mr. Chansley’s ‘good behavior.’
Given evidence of the DoJ’s history of crooked prosecutions and subsequent coerced plea deals, each and every case brought forward by DoJ prosecutors should be heard by a jury and then be granted automatic appeal.
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Paw Master [17045]
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The "plea deal" is paying for you to lie on another's trial***
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Sep 7, 2023, 10:52 AM
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Ultimate Tiger [36240]
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I'm unclear on what's unsettling about it.
Sep 7, 2023, 2:51 PM
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As cac2011 said, that's what a plea deal is. It's a reduced sentence in exchange for an admission of guilt.
Whether a particular sentences is appropriate for a particular crime can always be a matter for discussion, but a plea deal is always going to be more lenient than what the prosecutor is looking to get.
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Oculus Spirit [44686]
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Maybe unsettling isn't the case here.
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Sep 7, 2023, 3:09 PM
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But imagine you're broke but innocent, and they're telling you if you take it to trial you face xTimes the number of years if you don't take the plea.
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Ultimate Tiger [34129]
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Re: Maybe unsettling isn't the case here.
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Sep 7, 2023, 3:23 PM
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I've even heard this being called racist.
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Hall of Famer [8172]
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It's a good thing the Jan 6th criminals were mostly white.
Sep 7, 2023, 3:31 PM
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Literally everyone accused of a non-violent crime was let go on bail. Granted some committed other crimes or chewed through their ankle monitors and lost that privilege.
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Ultimate Tiger [34129]
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Re: It's a good thing the Jan 6th criminals were mostly white.
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Sep 7, 2023, 3:37 PM
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Right - plea deals are only racist if you're black. At least that's what I have heard from some on the left.
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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Clemson Icon [27845]
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He's still trying to wash that one off his shoes...***
Sep 9, 2023, 6:05 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11802]
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Re: It's a good thing the Jan 6th criminals were mostly white.
Sep 7, 2023, 8:35 PM
[ in reply to It's a good thing the Jan 6th criminals were mostly white. ] |
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Just set the bail so high that the defendant cannot reasonably pay the bail.
Thus, the original objective of incarcerating innocent defendants remains unimpeded.
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Ultimate Tiger [36240]
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I agree that innocent people take plea deals.
Sep 7, 2023, 3:56 PM
[ in reply to Maybe unsettling isn't the case here. ] |
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And yeah, that's unsettling as a general issue, but what's the alternative?
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Clemson Icon [27845]
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Exposing corrupt political prosecutors.***
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Sep 7, 2023, 4:46 PM
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Hall of Famer [8149]
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Re: One unsettling aspect of the Proud Boys Prosecution
Sep 7, 2023, 3:22 PM
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May be unsettling but it's how it has always been done.
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Clemson Conqueror [11802]
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Re: One unsettling aspect of the Proud Boys Prosecution
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Sep 7, 2023, 8:38 PM
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And that needs to change.
First step is to incarcerate ‘officers of the law’ (government prosecutors) who get caught flaunting &/or abusing the law in order to get convictions.
Government crooks need to face jail time for breaking the law. Same as for the defendants who break the law.
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Clemson Icon [27845]
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We could start with Merrick Garland and work down.***
Sep 9, 2023, 6:07 AM
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TigerNet Elite [72661]
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The FBIs involvement, which is well know
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Sep 7, 2023, 3:53 PM
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is so ###### up. They basically preyed on idiots that had ideas and then the FBI used cohesion tactics to lure them into the trap. This is known and accepted and it’s pure ########.
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All-Time Great [91271]
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Who knows and accepts it?
Sep 7, 2023, 4:33 PM
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I mean other than you, ConspiracyTom and NJDEV?
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Clemson Icon [27845]
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Replies: 23
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