Replies: 24
| visibility 990
|
110%er [9668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11417
Joined: 9/10/99
|
So do we ignore crazy left-wing and right-wing individuals
Feb 23, 2021, 9:29 AM
|
|
(or small groups) who advocate for crazy things like "Remove Washington's statue" or "determine your degree of whiteness" or "Hillary is running a child #### ring"?
I think when folks start talking about these fringe ideas - it gives them legitimacy in more peoples minds.
I think that's how we wound up with people tearing down statues they didn't like last summer and people rioting in the Capitol this winter.
|
|
|
|
All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38274
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: So do we ignore crazy left-wing and right-wing individuals
Feb 23, 2021, 10:18 AM
|
|
My first reaction is yes, we should. Or at least ridicule. The more attention they get, the more ground they gain.
But it also gets to a point where they become too numerous, influential, and harmful, so they must be addressed and dealt with. Even if we try to ignore them, they have plenty of platforms to spread their message.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11417
Joined: 9/10/99
|
Yeah - social media would have to be shut down to make it
Feb 23, 2021, 10:41 AM
|
|
happen. People love to take sides and get mad about stuff though...
I was stupid and spent some time debunking dumb stuff my FB friends posted (left and right). Some people said - "Thanks for pointing that out"...but mostly they just got madder.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 8370
Joined: 1/4/17
|
Re: Yeah - social media would have to be shut down to make it
Feb 23, 2021, 11:31 AM
|
|
I think these theories that are detached from reality have to be challenged - with evidence (or the lack thereof) and without emotion.
Joey, I get that it can be exhausting - and be met with more emotion and denial - but to just let that kind of stuff go breeds its growth. I think the key is to prove (or ask for) evidence and to point out logical fallacies. Emotion must be accounted for but removed from the process.
"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” John Stuart Mill
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38274
Joined: 11/30/98
|
It's incredible how...
Feb 23, 2021, 2:36 PM
[ in reply to Yeah - social media would have to be shut down to make it ] |
|
The human brain for most people is wired to get defensive and angry when someone points out they are wrong. It actually takes some coaching and work to overcome that.
Look how angry some of them got yesterday when I debunked the Coke myth (not counting you in this; we had a productive discussion). Rather than dig a little deeper, they got angry and/or insulting and/or dug deeper into their false beliefs.
You see the same with anti-vaxxers. Actually pointing out facts to them and debunking them makes them latch onto their beliefs more. That's why it's so hard to rip adults from falsities, and why providing strong education with critical thinking skills and good analysis skills is so crucial for young people.
I know this clown who is insistent that Deshaun Watson is a mediocre NFL quarterback. When I provide more statistics to prove him wrong, he digs in deeper with his belief then starts insulting Clemson. If the conversation comes up again later, he repeats the same factually incorrect statements as before.
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24119]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12224
Joined: 9/1/14
|
Re: It's incredible how...
Feb 23, 2021, 3:10 PM
|
|
Taking criticism well and giving criticism well is a very useful tool for growth.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [60043]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22503
Joined: 5/24/17
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38274
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Says the guy...
Feb 23, 2021, 2:08 PM
|
|
Who believes in QAnon and cheered on the storming of the Capitol building.
Yeah. You're definitely a level-headed centrist.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 8370
Joined: 1/4/17
|
Re: you are one of them, so this is funny***
Feb 23, 2021, 2:38 PM
[ in reply to you are one of them, so this is funny*** ] |
|
Manac
Not everyone that disagree with me is a bad person. In fact, most of them are not.
The fact that your mind is incapable of considering ideas contrary to your own does not change that fact.
|
|
|
|
|
Letterman [257]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/29/20
|
The problem is those formerly fringe groups are
Feb 23, 2021, 10:24 AM
|
|
becoming a larger part of both sides. A large percentage of republicans believe the conspiracy theories of the “Deep State,” the election was a fraud, Covid is a hoax, etc. While I think Democrats are less on the conspiracy theory train, a large percentage of their base support wildly unrealistic and impractical ideas like forgive all student loans, college should be free, an immediate wholesale switch to green energy, unhealthy levels of immigration, etc.
I wish both parties would come back to the middle. Don’t have a solution, but I hate to see both parties moving further into nut job land.
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24477]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13968
Joined: 7/3/01
|
Right. If "the election was stolen" is a conspiracy theory,
Feb 23, 2021, 11:14 AM
|
|
and "America is a white patriarchy" is not, we're not getting anywhere.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [38514]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 47162
Joined: 10/28/02
|
So slavery, segregation, etc. were conspiracy theory?***
Feb 23, 2021, 1:28 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38274
Joined: 11/30/98
|
1984, man. 1984.***
Feb 23, 2021, 3:23 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38274
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
A few decades ago?
Feb 23, 2021, 2:57 PM
|
|
We've got all sorts of make and models in congress and government at large now.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38274
Joined: 11/30/98
|
If we are talking just strictly government
Feb 23, 2021, 3:16 PM
|
|
And not also who rules corporate America, it's certainly gotten better, but still lopsided. Our current demographics for this year are:
In Congress, 77 percent are white. Seventy-three percent are men.
Here's a fun link that shows how bad it's been in history of the Senate for non-whites.
https://www.senate.gov/senators/EthnicDiversityintheSenate.htmEthnic Diversity in the Senate
We've had one president who wasn't white in all of our history. No women.
For governors, 45 are men (including the territory governors). Ten are women. All but four of them are white.
And this is the most diverse it's ever been. So how has it ceased being a nation controlled by white men?
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
Because white men are not some cabal pulling all of the
Feb 23, 2021, 3:27 PM
|
|
strings in this country, as much as some want it to be true. I mean, look at the demographics of the country, why wouldn't we have a high % of white people in government office? Why is that inherently bad?
Is there a more diverse governing body in the world? If white men are so controlling and evil, which at the root is absolutely what this kind of rhetoric is alluding to, how are we continuing to gain diversity?
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38274
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Hold up
Feb 23, 2021, 3:34 PM
|
|
You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say white men are "controlling and evil" (last I checked, I didn't think I was controlling and evil... I guess). I didn't say they were some "cabal pulling all the strings".
But it's a simple fact that white men run this nation, both in the public and private sector. It doesn't make them evil or bad guys; it just is what it is.
CUinTulsa, adding another to his long lineage of absurd posts, claimed that "white patriarchy" is a conspiracy theory. It's not. Patriarchy means men hold the primary power in all facets of a nation. In our case, it's true. It's silly for him to claim that's a conspiracy.
It's just a simple statement of fact and not an insinuation of malintent.
Message was edited by: Catahoula®
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
Not in the current context of our social discord, it's not
Feb 23, 2021, 3:40 PM
|
|
I assume, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, that he's referencing the currently mainstreamization (Is this a word? If it's not I claim it) of critical race theory and anti-white rhetoric. In the context of 2021 political discussions, "White Patriarchy" insinuates systematic racism where white men collude to hold others back.
Frankly, the traction this kind of stuff is getting should scare all white people.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38274
Joined: 11/30/98
|
That may have been what he meant.
Feb 23, 2021, 3:52 PM
|
|
He should probably elaborate more to eliminate misunderstanding.
I do believe there are plenty of white people in power who look to hold others back, but I don't believe it's a massive coordinated system across all public and private sectors.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 8370
Joined: 1/4/17
|
Re: The problem is those formerly fringe groups are
Feb 23, 2021, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to The problem is those formerly fringe groups are ] |
|
9
I agree that some of my liberal friends have unrealistic views about what SHOULD or CAN be done going forward . . .
But I think that is significantly different from conspiracy theories about what actually IS happening.
My liberal friends certainly need to be challenged in their perspectives, but these considerations are still open to interpretation and compromise. We are talking about what kind of reality we want to build going forward - it is understood that this is a dynamic conversation.
Conspiracy theories, on the other hand, is an argument about what is real now. And that argument has to be challenged to be based on empirical evidence and rational thinking.
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: The problem is those formerly fringe groups are
Feb 23, 2021, 1:46 PM
|
|
Just a quick question. Who decides what is rational thinking? You? Me? Only liberals?
I've seen you make that argument in the past and was just wondering.
Just because we may disagree with an argument, doesn't necessarily make it irrational.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 8370
Joined: 1/4/17
|
Re: The problem is those formerly fringe groups are
Feb 23, 2021, 2:33 PM
|
|
1851,
I think WEE can agree on some definition of rational - having to do with evidence, logic, and reason .
I absolutely agree that there can be rational arguments from more than one side of an issue. I think that we would want to discuss and debate the logic and evidence to arrive at some reasonable conclusion (or disagreement).
I would also argue for compromise, at least in the formation of public policy. I may strongly disagree with your position, but as long as it is based on evidence and rational thought, I might feel obligated to compromise with you in order to make public policy. Democracy is somewhere in the middle.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 8370
Joined: 1/4/17
|
Re: The problem is those formerly fringe groups are
Feb 23, 2021, 2:34 PM
|
|
WE
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30733
Joined: 8/11/15
|
|
|
|
Replies: 24
| visibility 990
|
|
|