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Based on today's comments by Big10,
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Replies: 84  

Based on today's comments by Big10,

[3]
Jun 4, 2012, 11:57 AM

I'd say ACC will definitely be on the outside looking in on this new BCS/Playoff scenario....looks like they are all wanting 4 best teams and based on ACC's SOS, I don't think they'll ever be a factor in the decision.

Hope the admin really makes the right call on this....seems that everything is on our end right now - leave or not.

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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,

emoji_events [7]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:01 PM

so if clemson or fsu or vpi is 13-0 you dont think they would be one of the 4 teams. if you do, you are on crack.

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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,

[3]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:07 PM

I don't think we would....I don't think a 13-0 ACC team (albeit us, FSU or Va Tech) would trump a 1 loss Big 10, SEC or Big 12 school. Especially depending on what they decide as the determining factor - will it be a RPI type rating that determines it or decision by committee? Either way I don't think it helps ACC. Especially if FSU leaves and we stay....ACC SOS is even worse. How is a sched of games vs MD, Duke, Weak Forest, NCSU, UVA and non-sched games of Furman or Ball State going to help us? Esp when you look at SEC conference scheds. There's a reason ACC is 5th in the pecking order of the conferences. We're bad. Only worse is Big East.

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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,


Jun 4, 2012, 12:08 PM

how is that crack. must be high quality.

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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,

[4]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:15 PM

Ha - no crack - just common sense. Let's say under the "RPI
" system, had they used that last year, our SOS was 33rd. So, don't tell me there's not 4 teams above us that woulda be chosen instead of us - even if we had gone 13-0. There were at least 3 1 loss teams - all with Top 5 SOS. 2 more with 2 loss that prob get ahead of us because they are 3rd & 4th in SOS.

But that's fine, let's stay in the nations 2nd weakest football conference and be content with hoping to land a spot in the Sun Bowl. We'll still have our beloved ACC champion ring - where we beat such great competition to earn.

If we stay in ACC, we need to focus on the sport that the conference is being geared to: Basketball.

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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:20 PM

You are lost

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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:26 PM

Nothing he said was wrong. Please explain how he is lost, and no saying I didnt like what he said is not an explanation.

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null


because the final 4 teams aren't just "chosen". It's based


Jun 4, 2012, 1:31 PM

on rankings.

To say that Clemson would not have been ranked in the top 2 last year after going undefeated is dead wrong. We were #6 already when we lost to GT.

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But we would HAVE to be undefeated


Jun 4, 2012, 1:51 PM

The champions of these football conferences can still lose a game, or maybe even 2, and still make a national title game. For us to do that if the ACC is left out we'd have to go undefeated or nothing else. We could be like Boise State.

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You are absolutely wrong


Jun 4, 2012, 2:00 PM

Too many variables in college football to say that.

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I kind of agree - although that argument WOULD be right

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 2:03 PM

some of the time. See Auburn in 2004, where they went 13-0 and were left out of the MNC game (which was USC vs. Oklahoma I think).

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Re: once a turd, always a turd***


Jun 4, 2012, 1:35 PM



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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:10 PM

exactly....perfectly said

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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:48 PM

Clemson SOS in 2011 was 21 and uscjr 28, according to realtimerpi.com. In case you do not know Clemson plays in the ACC and uscjr in the vaunted sec.

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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,


Jun 4, 2012, 2:29 PM

How many years do you think there will be 4 12-1 and 13-0 teams from those 2 conferences? Especially if they keep adding good teams to play against, have a championship game and the two conference champs play each other in their glorified bowl game. Just make sure that this added game is played BEFORE the final 4 teams are selected for the playoff. The other conferences need to stick it to the SEC/Big 12 by making sure the selection is after they play that game and not before.

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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:25 PM

If you want Clemson to move to the Big 12 then today's statement from the Big 10 is not good news. The move makes the most sense if only conference champions are being selected to go to the playoffs because then it's a SEC, Big 12, Big 10, PAC 12 conversation and you need to be in one of those conferences.
If they decide to use the 4 highest ranked then the ACC has just a good a shot at having a team selected. (Sorry, but an undefeated ACC team beats out a one loss team from another conference. This is the argument that Dabo was making about last year. Win out and Clemson is in regardless of what Alabama or LSU did)
The money argument is still innplay, but this is not good news for those that want to move.

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If Clemson is 1 of 5 undefeated teams

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:42 PM

and the other 4 are from the SEC, PAC 12, Big 12, or B1G, then Clemson gets left out.

If there are no undefeateds and there are 5 teams with a loss or even an SEC team with 2 losses, then again, Clemson would get left out.

You morans suggesting that Clemson gets in as an undefeated team fail to realize that even as an undefeated team, we still have to out-perform teams from the big 4 conferences just to be considered.

If we can get in a conference where we would face such an issue, then isn't that better for our team? If it's better for our team, isn't it better for the fans?

### is wrong with you people?

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About 0% chance of 5 undefeated teams

[4]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:44 PM

It's never happened before - I don't think there's ever been more than 3, from the major conferences (BE and ACC included).

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Great. If there are 5 1-loss teams, the ACC teams gets

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:53 PM

left out.

If there are 4 1-loss teams and a 2 loss Bama or LSU, then Clemson gets left out again.

If there are 5 2-loss team, Clemson gets left out.

The moral of the story is... the ACC team will get left out.

Those of you that don't see this, probably shouldn'b be allowed outside without parental supervision.

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Last season, with 1-loss, we were ahead of Stanford with

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:57 PM

1-loss

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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


So how do you explain 2011?

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:58 PM

IF - and this is a big IF - Clemson had finished with 1 loss instead of 3 - we would have been playing for the national championship last season.

PS - my mom said it was OK to post this.
PPS - No "your mom" jokes please.

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If if's and but's were candy and nuts, we'd be having a

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:05 PM

party.

If Bama, OU, tOSU, Oregon, and Clemson all finish with identical records, then who gets in and who gets left out? Clemson would get left out and they'd get left out b/c of their association with a weak ACC.

Y'all are suggesting that the media/polls/rpi etc... all view the ACC as an equal but that is not the case. The ACC is seen as the weakest of the top 5 and the polls prove it ever year.

Clemson lost it's first game and dropped 8 or 9 spots in the rankings. Ok State lost a game and dropped less than Clemson. That's a fact and there are no if's or but's behind it.

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Re: If if's and but's were candy and nuts, we'd be having a

[3]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:11 PM

I'm not talking about hypotheticals. Clemson WAS ranked ahead of Stanford last season, with both teams having one loss. You're the one "supposing" that a 1-loss Clemson would be ranked behind Bama, OU, tOSU, etc. Sure that's possible. But it's not a certainty, and IMO isn't a good reason for us to leave the ACC.

If ACC teams start getting to the point where we finish the season with 1 loss, the ACC will instantly be nationally relevant. But we've gotta get to that point (Clemson in particular - the rest of the ACC I couldn't care less if they do).

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exactly.

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:13 PM

A lot of people are also forgetting that a one or zero loss Clemson team would have met a one loss VT team in the conference championship game. There is no way the winner of that game gets left out of the top-4.

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Care to respond TD'er?***

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:19 PM



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We dropped from 6 to 10 after a GT game in which we

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:12 PM

got WHIPPED.

OSU dropped from 2 to 5 after a 2OT loss to Iowa St.

Nothing to do with conference, once again.

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This is just not true. It would come down to pre-season


Jun 4, 2012, 1:25 PM

ranking and perception. There wouldn't be jumping.

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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Re: If Clemson is 1 of 5 undefeated teams


Jun 4, 2012, 1:22 PM

When is the last time we've had 5 undefeated teams?

Heck how many times have we had 2

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This is such a stupid argument, I don't understand how y'all

emoji_events [8]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:03 PM

supporting the Big XII continue to use it.

An undefeated Clemson, FSU, Virginia Tech, Miami, or Georgia Tech team will be in the top 4.

Even a one loss Clemson team from last year would've been in the top 4.

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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Re: This is such a stupid argument, I don't understand how y'all

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:07 PM

your side of the argument is "stupid" as well....ACC is the second weakest conference in the NCAA...

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Re: This is such a stupid argument, I don't understand how y'all


Jun 4, 2012, 12:08 PM

Exactly!

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toke...toke...pass***


Jun 4, 2012, 12:14 PM



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2nd weakest BCS conference...***


Jun 4, 2012, 12:52 PM



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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Re: This is such a stupid argument, I don't understand how y'all

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:12 PM

if Clemson is 13-0...Alabama 13-0....LSU 11-1....Michigan 13-0...and Kansas 13-0 guess who gets left out?

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and when was the last time that many undefeated teams

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:15 PM

were at the end of a season?

And for the record, I would say LSU would not make the cut.

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Re: and when was the last time that many undefeated teams

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:17 PM

ok...give michigan and kansas each a loss....guess what?....we still won't b included

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Don't quit your day job oh great predictor

[4]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:36 PM

All of the sudden (since the big xii talks started) clemson has NO SHOT at finishing in the top 4 at the end of the season regardless of record. All because of conference affiliation.

Just plain dumb.

With 1 loss I don't think anyone, regardless of conference, has much hope. Surely there are exceptions on occasion but it takes undefeated to win it all.

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Tell that to Bama from last year and LSU from back in '08***

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:39 PM



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Fiat Justitia et Pereat Mundus


twice in 15 years

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:54 PM

and we should change conferences just in case we are the ones involved every 7.5 years when that happens?

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No. Clemson would get in with a better record but not


Jun 4, 2012, 12:56 PM

with an identical record.

why should we accept being in a conference where we are already at a disadvantage even before a game is played?

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I just don't agree with what you are saying

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:00 PM

Is the ACC a weaker conference today? Yes. Has the ACC been weak over the past several years? Yes.

But to say we are at some disadvantage I just don't agree.

So you play in a weak conf and go undefeated. Odds are just as good you play for a NC than if you are a 1-loss team from the SEC.

In either case, we ain't that good right now. I don't agree with changing conferences just because someone predicts that IF we have a 1 loss season we won't be ranked in the top 10. I think that's a far-fetched scenario looking at history.

And let's face it: As much as we can agree that the SEC is overhyped in the media, we can also agree that the media LOVES Clemson when we are doing well. We've historically (last 20 yrs) been ranked faster and higher than we probably should have been.

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Top 4 I mean* ***


Jun 4, 2012, 1:02 PM



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I would normally agree with your view of the situation being

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:10 PM

cyclical and in time, the ACC will rebound but given the current state of TV Contracts and money, the cyclical nature of conferences/teams takikng turns at the top will all but vanish.

And in the end, it's money that wins out. The Big 12 teams will get more money than ACC teams so why would we NOT consider leaving the ACC?

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I have no trouble personally with us looking considering

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:19 PM

other conferences, and believe the SEC is the best fit for us.

I'm just not in the "we-gotta-go-or-we-will-be-left-out-of-any-chance-at-a-nat'l-champ-due-to-conf-affiliation" camp.

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Re: I have no trouble personally with us looking considering


Jun 4, 2012, 1:31 PM

you do realize that the SEC has no reason to be interested in us right?

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They have no reason other than

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:33 PM

The SEC conference would overall be stronger in
football
baseball
basketball
track
soccer
academics
fan support (money and attendance)
tennis

And it makes geographical sense.

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Re: They have no reason other than


Jun 4, 2012, 1:52 PM

its all about tv markets and footprint...SEC already has a footprint in SC

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That's what is talked about by the media, but I'm not so

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 2:03 PM

sure those are the determining factors.

If footprint, why are most conferences regional in the first place?

TV market? I don't think it's a stretch for someone to know that Clemson has a HUGE fanbase spread out throughout the southeast. Put another way, I highly doubt there are more people in the US that watch Missouri than watch Clemson on a weekly basis. That includes Vandy, Ole Miss, and Miss St COMBINED.

I think there is much more involved than footprint and TV markets.

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Re: That's what is talked about by the media, but I'm not so


Jun 4, 2012, 2:07 PM

Since conference expansion began in recent history, lets say when SEC took USuC and ARK, has any conference taken a school from a state that it already had an existing member school in?....i know miami and FSU....any others?

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Not enough data to draw any good conclusions


Jun 4, 2012, 2:14 PM

There haven't really been that many major D1 type teams involved in expansion since 1990. There have been groups that have broken off and reformed,etc. but just not a ton of big-name football movers in terms of expansion.

Surely tv has influenced some expansion in the past, I just don't think it is a determining factor. Rather it's another data point to consider.

Here's something that talks about expansion

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/expansion-timeline.htm

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Re: Not enough data to draw any good conclusions


Jun 4, 2012, 2:18 PM

the answer is none...B1G has taken PSU and NEB....ACC taken SU and PITT...SEC taken TAM and MIZZOU...PAC12 taken UTAH and Colorado...BIG12 taken WVU and TCU(another Texas school)....each conference enlarging their footprint

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Well it's one (miami)


Jun 4, 2012, 2:24 PM

but I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. If you're saying a conference won't include a school in expansion simply because they have another conf member in that state then I'm not sure you are correct.

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Re: Well it's one (miami)


Jun 4, 2012, 2:34 PM

yes...i am correct Sir

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Re: and when was the last time that many undefeated teams

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:23 PM

Where you getting your info? Slap your source

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If they were willing to put two teams from the SEC

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:18 PM

in a National championship game, you better believe multiple teams from same conference could trump Clemson coming in undefeated.

But I love how you guys are banking on Clemson getting in on being undefeated. Do you realize how LITTLE that is going to happen over the next 100 years?

A one loss Clemson would not get in over a 13-0 Bama, a 11-1 LSU, a 12-1 OSU, and a 12-1 the real USC, or a 11-1 Texas... there is no way.

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THE TIGERS ARE IN MY HEART..... BUT THE DUCKS ARE IN MY PANTS....


Hang on

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:23 PM

Bama's only loss was to #1. That IMO gives them a legit shot over OSU who lost to an unranked team.

Undefeated Clemson DOES get in over 11-1 or 12-1 Anyone. Yessir they will. Will it get them in over another undefeated team? All schools have the same question mark. If there are 3+ undefeated teams (VERY RARE) then someone is getting left out. That will depend on quality wins, SOS, etc.

13-0 bama, 13-0realUSC, and 13-0 Clemson...do we get left out? Probably but not a certainty. To your point though what are the odds this scenario plays out? Less than .005 out of 100.

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undefeated... yeah, we probably would... but is that

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:39 PM

what you want to have Clemson HAS to do just to get a shot in a playoff? I certainly don't.

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THE TIGERS ARE IN MY HEART..... BUT THE DUCKS ARE IN MY PANTS....


I think we are talking apples and oranges here

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:48 PM

my point above is around us getting into the BCS champ game (final 2).

As for a 4 team playoff, again it's not fair to say that due to conference affiliation we cannot make the final 4 teams if we have 1 loss. You just cannot say that becuase it is not true.

COULD we get left out? Yep. And so COULD 1 loss teams from any conference. Most of this will hinge on who to, where, and when this loss occurred.

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Re: and when was the last time that many undefeated teams


Jun 4, 2012, 1:26 PM

How is the Big East weaker than the ACC. Their champion scored 70 on the ACC champs

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zero indication of conference strength. Go somewhere else

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:27 PM

and enjoy your baseball victories. Ya'll deserved them.

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Re: This is such a stupid argument, I don't understand how y'all

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:16 PM

kansas or LSU

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Most likely LSU, possibly Kansas***


Jun 4, 2012, 12:52 PM



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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Open your eyes for God's sake.

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:15 PM

a 1 loss Clemson team would be left out over a 1 loss Big 12, Pac 12, or B1G team and most likely a 2 loss Bama or LSU team.

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I'tmeyudping this with my ehes close.***


Jun 4, 2012, 12:17 PM



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Please tell me you honestly believe this

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:39 PM

You don't really think a 2 loss bama or lsu would be ranked in the top 4 do you? Can you present one time this (a 2 loss team was ranked in the top 4 at the end of the regular season) has happened in the history of college football?

And a one-loss Clemson would be passed in favor of a one loss big 12, pac 12 or big whatever team because of conference affilitation?

You should watch more football.

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LSU - two losses, played in BCS Championship in '08***

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:43 PM



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Fiat Justitia et Pereat Mundus


and one of those was Kentucky***

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:44 PM



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Fiat Justitia et Pereat Mundus


Their two losses were in TRIPLE OVERTIME. Not to mention

[3]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:45 PM

no undefeated BCS school.

Oh, and would you look at that, a 2-loss VT ranked #3 and would've been in the Playoffs.

WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT THAT?!

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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Good find


Jun 4, 2012, 12:53 PM

but HIGHLY unusual. And I think the only time that's happened in the past 15 years.

In their case they lost 2 games, both in triple OT, and one vs KY was on the road vs a ranked team.

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2 loss LSU

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:47 PM

But the issue isn't whether or not we'd get in as an undefeated team.

The issue is, if our record is equal to the best teams in the Big 12, SEC, B1G, and Pac 12, then we (the ACC team) will be left out.

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My eyes are open, our 1-loss Clemson team last year was


Jun 4, 2012, 12:53 PM

ahead of the 1-loss Stanford, maybe you need to take a step back and look at things more logically than emotionally.

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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


I see their dismay

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:26 PM

Last year, the Big East, Conf USA and Mountain west champions finished ahead in the polls of the ACC Champ.

Heck, the runners up in two of those finished ahead of the ACC Champion.

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Fiat Justitia et Pereat Mundus


Re: This is such a stupid argument, I don't understand how y'all

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:28 PM

That is most likely true. It is also most likely that for the next few years our opportunity to advance to the playoff is greater where we are than in one of the top four conferences. However, we can not be sure after that.

It is in Clemson's best interest to remain circumspect and make all decisions based on the long term. Right now our passions direct us to leave the ACC or to stay put. This is emotional BS from both camps and has nothing to do with where Clemson should play football in five years.

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In the ACC you have to go undefeated

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:38 PM

in the SEC and other conferences, 2 losses gets you in

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weve been undefeated 3 times in over 100 years.... so we

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 1:25 PM

might as well be in a conference where we could still get in the playoffs with one loss

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We would've been last year...and most years...***


Jun 4, 2012, 1:25 PM



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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:22 PM

So what the ACC defenders are saying is Clemson should handcuff itself by not being able to have an oops game.

We would HAVE to go undefeated to have a shot vs other teams who can have an oops game and still get in.

GJ

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null


Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,


Jun 4, 2012, 12:23 PM

i think thats what they are saying....only perfection is good enough for them

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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,


Jun 4, 2012, 12:37 PM

thanks for clarifying

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null


I've never seen this as a in/out playoff decision


Jun 4, 2012, 12:23 PM

this is more about a concentration of money/influence amongst the top 4 conferences.

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Would it Really Matter?

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:30 PM

Undefeated or one loss we would probably get in but then what? Getting our rears handed to us to the tune of 70 points? If we're ever going to be a legitimate contender then we have to start playing better competition to get better. It's like lifting weights, if you never increase your weight you'll never get stronger. That's my 2 cents worth anyway

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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,

[1]
Jun 4, 2012, 12:57 PM

Regardless, prob doesn't matter with us either way...when is the last time we even had a 1 loss Clemson team? And that is playing against weak ACC schools. Imagine playing a Big12 sched - prob looking at a 7-5, 8-4 tops record each and every year and not a factor. ACC may give us a better chance but what will eat at me more, is that over 10 years, our coot friends down the road will be looking how to spend their extra 100 mil that we won't have.

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Re: Based on today's comments by Big10,


Jun 4, 2012, 1:35 PM

i totally agree...somehow , someway we have to bridge that financial gap between us and USuC....that gap will never be even begin to be shortened in the ACC

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That's ridiculous.

[2]
Jun 4, 2012, 2:21 PM

When we were 8-0 we were ranked 5th in the BCS. If we had went on to go 13-0 we would have played in the MNC and in the new system we would be one of the 4 teams.

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Well IF Stanford and Oklahoma and LSU and Michigan and Notre


Jun 4, 2012, 3:03 PM

Dame and West Virginia would have gone 13-0 you wouldn't have

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Fiat Justitia et Pereat Mundus


Replies: 84  

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