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Rock Defender [54]
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Questions for the anti-Trump crowd
Oct 7, 2020, 11:56 AM
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All-In [26968]
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I read the thing this "Brennan notes" thing
Oct 7, 2020, 11:59 AM
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I don't get why it's big, breaking news. It seems like a very obvious statement, that Secretary Clinton would be campaigning stressing the Russia thing.
Of course, I am not voting for Vice President Biden.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I read the thing this "Brennan notes" thing
Oct 7, 2020, 12:07 PM
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All-In [26968]
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I'm all for people who commit crimes being brought to
Oct 7, 2020, 12:29 PM
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justice. It does seem to me that if sufficient evidence hasn't been found in 4 years to bring charges against these folks, then it's probably not gong to happen. But I would want justice to be done.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: I'm all for people who commit crimes being brought to
Oct 7, 2020, 12:50 PM
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Its not Nov. 3rd yet but don't have much hope anyone will go to jail.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: I'm all for people who commit crimes being brought to
Oct 7, 2020, 2:20 PM
[ in reply to I'm all for people who commit crimes being brought to ] |
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Huh? This FISA situation has not been under investigation for four years. Maybe you are referring to the claim by the left about Russia collusion. Obviously that did not happen...
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Legend [15492]
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Re: I'm all for people who commit crimes being brought to
Oct 7, 2020, 2:22 PM
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It's easy to spot those who haven't read, even excerpts apparently from the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee's final report.
Hannity and Ingraham are not going to be enough to save Trump, this will be a landslide.
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CU Medallion [56106]
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It's essentially another Benghazi.
Oct 7, 2020, 12:12 PM
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It's something to get the hyperpartisan nimrods fired up.
I saw the declassified letter that said US intelligence couldn't confirm allegations by Russian intelligence claiming that Hillary's campaign was going to say Trump was tangled up with the Russians, which everyone already knew since Hillary called Trump a puppet of Russia and Putin during a debate in 2016. Oh and Obama (and Biden because why not) was briefed on the Russian intel, so he's somehow complicit in something.
It's very much like Benghazi insofar as the right keeps pretending they found a smoking gun that proves something, but they really have nothing, which is why there are never any consequences for the supposed crimes.
But the Clintons have had people murdered and they ran a pedophile ring out of a pizza place and Obama isn't a US citizen and he's a radical Muslim Marxist and Trump is sending coded messages through QAnon.
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Rock Defender [54]
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What if indictments and convictions are ultimately obtained?***
Oct 7, 2020, 12:15 PM
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CU Medallion [56106]
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You're gonna have to be more specific.***
Oct 7, 2020, 12:16 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: You're gonna have to be more specific.***
Oct 7, 2020, 12:46 PM
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CU Medallion [56106]
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Nobody said the ends justify the means.
Oct 7, 2020, 1:04 PM
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They don't even believe that there were means and the ends were that Trump became the president, so that whole assessment makes no sense.
Here's what I found about the indicted guy you mentioned: "Clinesmith, who worked at the FBI for four years, is accused of altering an email in 2017 that investigators relied on to justify an application to wiretap Page, according to court records. The altered email indicated that Page was "not a source" for the Central Intelligence Agency. The original email from the CIA indicated otherwise."
So he altered an email to say Carter Page wasn't a source for the CIA, but he actual was one? I don't understand why he would do that or what it would achieve. The FISA court has been a rubber stamp for warrants for years, so it's not remarkable that they found a warrant predicated on dubious information. That said, there's nothing to indicate that Obama, Hillary, Comey, Biden, or anyone else had anything to do with it.
if the Durham investigation results in indictments either before or after the election and ultimately convictions, will it change your mind?
I think if Trump's DOJ magically discovers evidence to indict Trump's opponent in the presidential race three weeks before the election I'll be extremely skeptical. Pretending for a moment that this implausible conservative wet-dream actually happened, I'd look at the evidence to see if it's credible and, if it is, then I'd expect law enforcement to indict and prosecute Joe Biden or whoever else was involved in criminal activity.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: It's essentially another Benghazi.
Oct 7, 2020, 2:22 PM
[ in reply to It's essentially another Benghazi. ] |
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That's a completely bogus and partisan conclusion. The last two bullets in the statement were obviously meant to hit home that numerous high-level people did indeed believe HRC was behind it.
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Legend [17300]
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How many convictions after 4 years with Trump guys
Oct 7, 2020, 12:26 PM
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running the DOJ?
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Legend [16263]
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Re: How many convictions after 4 years with Trump guys
Oct 7, 2020, 1:29 PM
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How many even officially charged in those four years, let alone convicted?
I look at two scenarios here. One - Obama and his Admin cheated but in four years since Trump's DOJ, a Republican Senate, and the rest of the Admin are too inept to put together any type of case so their best hope is simply dropping bombs a few weeks before the general election.
Two - There is simply no evidence to support these charges, all of the above know it, so their best hope is simply dropping bombs a few weeks before the general election.
Incompetence vs Outright BS. Tough choice here.
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Rock Defender [54]
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110%er [5694]
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Re: Barr was nominated in Dec 2018 and
Oct 7, 2020, 2:24 PM
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Exactly, W T F are you guys saying? This investigation has not been ongoing that long.
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Legend [16263]
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Trump was throwing out McCarthy-esque accusations against
Oct 7, 2020, 2:38 PM
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this probe and accusing Obama of spying on his campaign within a month of taking office. The reality likely is that his Admin could find nothing from that point on, so they conjured up an 'investigation' whose 'findings' could coincide with the 2020 election season.
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Oculus Spirit [83133]
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I think that all you mention were acting on credible
Oct 7, 2020, 12:32 PM
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red flags raised by the Trump campaign of colluding with the Russians.
Should the Obama Administration have ordered spying on the Trump campaign due to these red flags. I think so.
Were they naive? Maybe, but keep in mind that at this point, they thought the Trump campaign had no chance of winning anyway.
Also, keep in mind, Trump was never exonerated by Mueller.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: I think that all you mention were acting on credible
Oct 7, 2020, 12:51 PM
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They should have opened an investigation into Hillary but they gave her a pass.
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Oculus Spirit [83133]
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Were investigating her emails which they should have.***
Oct 7, 2020, 1:19 PM
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110%er [5694]
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Re: Were investigating her emails which they should have.***
Oct 7, 2020, 2:26 PM
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It's part of the freaking deep state. We have too many partisan zealots in all types of low-medium-high positions throughout all these agencies. These are the no-moral liberals that have been proven to stop at nothing as long as it promotes their vision.
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Legend [17300]
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All-In [34600]
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Oculus Spirit [83133]
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Oculus Spirit [97751]
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Two wrongs don't make a right.
Oct 7, 2020, 1:00 PM
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Which is why this election is between two wrongs.
I am as much against Trump's JOB as President as I am about Biden's PLANS as President. Trump is ground squarely in populism, and not in ideology. Dangerous times, if you look at history.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Questions for the anti-Trump crowd
Oct 7, 2020, 2:17 PM
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You lost me at "Russia Hoax". Read both the Mueller Probe and the Senate Intelligence Committee Report. There was no hoax. Ask the Republicans on the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Then get back to me.
And btw, Barr already has said that neither Biden or Obama are being investigated by Durham. Full stop.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: Questions for the anti-Trump crowd
Oct 7, 2020, 2:27 PM
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Have you read the Steele Dossier?
If no, then shut up on it. If yes, you have my permission to keep posting.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Questions for the anti-Trump crowd
Oct 7, 2020, 3:44 PM
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As long as you believe the Steele Dossier carries as much weight as the Mueller Report or the Senate Intelligence Committee Report, you must stop raving about political zealots.
But, you may continue to post.
(Yes, I did read the Steele Dossier, some of it was just dumb, but it did point to election interference by the Russians, that was confirmed by both Mueller and Senate Reports)
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Rock Defender [54]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Questions for the anti-Trump crowd
Oct 7, 2020, 3:45 PM
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That's because your premise wasn't objective in the least.
It's sort of like the old joke: "Are you still beating your wife?" Yes or No are both bad answers.
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110%er [7210]
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Spoiler alert
Oct 7, 2020, 2:21 PM
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The FBI was stretching to justify getting what they wanted and the FISA process doesn't have enough checks and balances. There's nothing political about that. I already voted for Biden so there's no takesies backsies. If it turns out him and Obama broke into an orphanage and went around hitting toddlers with baseball bats, I'll support impeachment or resignation or whatever, but I don't see it happening.
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Legend [16263]
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Re: Questions for the anti-Trump crowd
Oct 7, 2020, 2:28 PM
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1. Of course it is. See my post above.
2. No one is above the law, even a President.
3. There is no evidence in any form really, other than a verified recording, that could be released between now and the election that would have any impact on voting the con man Trump out of office. Any release of 'evidence' other than an actual audio or video recording now would be seen exactly as it is - the act of a desperate man willing to destroy election year norms and further corrupt the office of POTUS for personal gain.
4. I'll believe it when I see it and respond accordingly (see #2).
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All-In [31908]
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If the allegations against the Obama admin are true...
Oct 7, 2020, 2:29 PM
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then everyone should be held accountable.
However, I don't see how that would make Trump any better of a President.
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All-In [42197]
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Man, you're gonna hate this answer.
Oct 7, 2020, 2:51 PM
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1. Nope. Completely different circumstances.
2. I care if it's true and I want the full truth. All Americans should expect and demand it. I do care about getting rid of Trump and he needs to be ousted, but for the right reasons and the right way.
3. I'm already not voting for him.
4. If any person in our government is proven to have broken the law, past or present, they should be prosecuted to the full extent so as to scare anyone else in the future from doing it.
Let's pump the brakes on calling this worse than Watergate.
5. Now here's my question for you. Let's take this same scenario, or any case at all, where it's proven Trump and his people broke the law in a similar fashion. Would you change your vote or call for his prosecution? Or would you delve into your usual political hackery and defend him at all costs? I think you choose the latter. I think there is nothing that could come out or happen to make you shake your love and adoration for Trump. Go ahead. Name something that would.
I want integrity and lawfulness out of our elected officials regardless of their political affiliation. That's the American way. I don't think you embrace the same ideals.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Man, you're gonna hate this answer.
Oct 7, 2020, 3:00 PM
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All-In [42197]
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Re: Man, you're gonna hate this answer.
Oct 7, 2020, 3:05 PM
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You still didn't answer my questions. Would you have the same attitude for Trump? What would make you change your mind about voting for him on Nov 3?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Man, you're gonna hate this answer.
Oct 7, 2020, 3:24 PM
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All-In [42197]
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Re: Man, you're gonna hate this answer.
Oct 7, 2020, 3:44 PM
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I do have an issue with the people who think it’s okay because “Biden is a moderate” and the other people who are just protest voting. They’re either uninformed or in denial about the direction of the current Dem party and are purely motivated by dislike of Trump’s personality. I think they will later regret their votes.
Could you not argue the same about the protest votes against Hillary? She was a #### candidate, but many voted for Trump without realizing the potential disaster (that came true as well).
Honestly, the GOP would have been better off with Hillary. The GOP Congress would have kept her in check, they wouldn't have lost the seats they did, and they would probably be sitting pretty for 2020.
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Legend [16263]
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You are dead wrong on why non-Democrats are turning on
Oct 7, 2020, 3:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: Man, you're gonna hate this answer. ] |
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Trump. He has proven himself over four years to be the complete and utter self-obsessed fraud that he was before he ran for President. He has abused the powers of his office, put our national security interests at risk for his own political purposes, and he has grossly mismanaged, to the point of dereliction of duty levels with his admitted lying and falsehoods about it, the one true crisis he has had to face. It's a lot easier to portray yourself as an effective leader when things are going relatively smooth. When faced with a true national challenge, he has totally flubbed it. And as you like to point out - Covid isn't really even all that bad. Imagine how disastrous he would be if the 'big one' comes under his watch.
The only ones truly sticking with him are the Ever Trumpers who are okay with him shooting someone in the face on 5th Avenue and are willing to 'not believe what you see and hear' for yourself. Many of the others are, what did you say, 'uninformed or in denial'.
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All-In [42197]
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Yep, it's very clear...
Oct 7, 2020, 4:01 PM
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Those who are voting against Trump because they believe him to be an utter disaster and a threat to our nation's democracy are extremely informed.
Those who are voting for him because they adore him and think he's a great president are the ones who need some help. I put more faith in those voting for Trump simply because they don't like Biden.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Legend [16263]
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We will see free markets get freer and less crony for starts
Oct 7, 2020, 7:32 PM
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Whether there's a green incentive in place or not, and there should be and likely will - time to lead the world on this - we will see a significant program for national investment on infrastructure, and a capable team to lead and manage it. Look up Biden's record doling out the 2009 stimulus bill funds and the accountability in place. Dude knows how to make our federal government work for US. Trump only knows how to make the system work for Trump.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: We will see free markets get freer and less crony for starts
Oct 7, 2020, 7:37 PM
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