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CU Guru [1189]
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LONG, but I'm sick of these Big East teams' sense of entitlement..
Jun 8, 2016, 4:45 PM
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I've been reading some stuff on a Hokie board about realignment, the ACCN, etc. It truly ticks me off that they think they even throw around the idea that they've been in the ACC long enough to entertain the idea of kicking a founding member of the conference out because said member "brings nothing to the table." Said member would be Wake Forest. They think Wake takes their share of money and that Wake would be the reason an ACCN would fail.
So I did some digging. As small as Wake is, they'd be much more valuable in terms of inventory for a network if you simply look at history and facts. I even created a infograph for the poor folks.
(Yeah, I've got a lot of time on my hands today, but I took pleasure in this one. Not a fan of our "fowl" rivals in Columbia or Blacksburg.)
http://chat.virginiatech.sportswar.com/mid/7717989/board/vtrealignment/
Message was edited by: burnss®
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110%er [5289]
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Wake is pretty useless as of late
Jun 8, 2016, 4:56 PM
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They really need to step it up with some of their garbage programs. If we get rid of a NC school they'd be my pick.
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Oculus Spirit [93674]
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I'd do away with UNCheat.
Jun 8, 2016, 5:08 PM
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I'm fed up with their stunts. They can lie well enough to join the SEC.
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CU Medallion [57160]
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SEC would love to have them.***
Jun 8, 2016, 5:12 PM
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110%er [9300]
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Re: I'd do away with UNCheat.
Jun 8, 2016, 9:18 PM
[ in reply to I'd do away with UNCheat. ] |
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I'd say the more important factor is getting rid of Swofford. Still blows my mind that a former AD, QB, and graduate of a school can be the commissioner of that teams conference. Thats an obvious conflict of interest.
As much as I loathe UNC, they do bring something to the table as a national brand - especially in basketball.
Message was edited by: gville76®
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CU Guru [1189]
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and the same could have been said about us many times...
Jun 8, 2016, 5:25 PM
[ in reply to Wake is pretty useless as of late ] |
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'90s football? 90% of our basketball existence? Women's basketball right now? AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON OUR SOFTBALL TEAM! Never won a dang game
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110%er [6219]
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VaTech > Wake***
Jun 8, 2016, 5:43 PM
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CU Guru [1189]
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How so? VT had a good run in the '90s and early 2000's
Jun 8, 2016, 6:12 PM
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In football. Maybe Fuente can bring them back, but I view them as just a small step above South Carolina (albeit with a somehow even MORE barren trophy case).
Wake had our backs when Swofford and Maryland bent us over. And Wake has a great athletic tradition in Olympic sports. That's what will make up the majority of a conference network anyway. ESPN is running out of inventory for the ABC slots in football. ACC games will all be at noon and 3:30 on mirror with ESPN2. The ESPN3 games will move to the ACC3 with Olympic sports.
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110%er [6219]
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Re: How so? VT had a good run in the '90s and early 2000's
Jun 8, 2016, 7:05 PM
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Do yourself a favor: Go to any game at Lane Stadium and then go to a game at Wake. That will answer your question without an iota of doubt.
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CU Guru [1189]
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So conference affiliation is now based on stadium size/noise?
Jun 9, 2016, 1:39 AM
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All this time I thought realignment was about TV subscriptions. I've been doing it wrong.
VT's heyday was during the WORST period of ACC football period in the past 20 years. They went to BCS bowls, and had a perfect record, I believe. They "carried the banner" while making the conference look even worse. Now look at Lane Stadium with competition in the ACC. About as much of homefield advantage as BB&T Stadium.
BTW, been to both. I was just as shocked as you to find out that the school with 30,000 students had he larger and louder stadium than the school with 5,000 students.
Beamer was VT, and with the complete overhaul/upgrade in coaching in the Coastal and VT without THE face of their program plus their awful recruiting doesn't give me much hope for them.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Re: How so? VT had a good run in the '90s and early 2000's
Jun 8, 2016, 8:56 PM
[ in reply to How so? VT had a good run in the '90s and early 2000's ] |
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Not sure where your facts are coming from, but VT has won their conference 10 times and won the ACC 4 times.... Not close to as barren of a trophy case.
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Letterman [298]
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All-In [25008]
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Letterman [255]
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Orange Blooded [2634]
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What the heck has VT done lately...
Jun 8, 2016, 7:10 PM
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When you are in the bottom in most sports and hardly have any sports in the top 25, you should pretty much shut the #### up
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110%er [6219]
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Re: What the heck has VT done lately...
Jun 8, 2016, 7:25 PM
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Stop it. They can fill a stadium with 60k+ people and have more ACC titles (3) than anyone not named FSU (4) since they joined the conference. They also have more title game appearances (5, tied with FSU) than anyone else. End of story.
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CU Guru [1189]
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That is straight up Coot logic bruh***
Jun 9, 2016, 1:26 AM
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CU Guru [1189]
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All-In [30838]
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Mostly they keep the hillbillies of West Virginia out of South Carolina
Jun 9, 2016, 7:09 AM
[ in reply to What the heck has VT done lately... ] |
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They are the dmz zone between trashy mountaineers and the acc.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Welllllll...in the SEC dey git to visit the Roach
Jun 9, 2016, 7:27 AM
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If it weren't for different school colors, you'd probably not be able to tell the difference in the fan bases.
That'd be a sight. I'm sure the Gamecocks would welcome 100 more teams to the SEC so they have 100 more chances of winning.
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All-TigerNet [10924]
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Funny the ACC had to take them to get UVA's vote for
Jun 8, 2016, 7:35 PM
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expansion the first time. Originally it was all about getting Miami was it not and taking Syracuse and BC to help coax Miami in. Those three (Miami,BC and Syracuse). Not VT. The ACC already had the Virginia TV market locked up. The Hokies have UVA to thank or they would be in the American Conference.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Re: LONG, but I'm sick of these Big East teams' sense of entitlement..
Jun 8, 2016, 8:05 PM
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I would say the least valuable programs in order would be Wake Pitt BC
Just my opinion, but I agree with the sentiment that those are the teams that are weighing the ACC down like an anchor.
If we could replace any 2 of those with say ND (all sports) WVU
We would look a ton better!!
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110%er [6519]
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Now that post WAS long and thorough
Jun 8, 2016, 8:06 PM
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It is nonsense to kick any of our existing members out, as each school brings a certain brand that I personally enjoy. There will always be bottom feeders and the power structure is dynamic as you explained. I love how Duke (in football) has become a player in the Coastal and BC, a few years ago won the the Atlantic a few times, is now trying to climb out of the cellar.
Wake will be good at some point again. Remember the Big East kicked Temple out then let them back in? And they were pretty good last year. The ACC is the best, end of story, goodbye, the end!
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All-Conference [401]
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I'm sorry, Wake will be good at some point is no argument.
Jun 8, 2016, 9:10 PM
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They are probably the sixth most popular team in their state. That translates to no added value to TV contracts. They would add zero value to getting an ACC network off the ground. This is a critical time when we do not want historical SEC bottom feeders to have a huge advantage just due to conference. I don't think the ACC has always had our back so why should we have theirs. If we had bolted with FSU a couple of years ago the ACC would be experiencing a slow trip to land of irrelevancy.
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110%er [6519]
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Kicking them out is never going to happen
Jun 8, 2016, 9:46 PM
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And it shouldn't. Otherwise, it creates a culture of constant musical chairs with the conferences, beyond this current evolution of realignments, swapping the down-swing teams for the hot ones. The ACC footprint covers the entire east coast, having four teams from NC does not hurt the conference. And the ACC network is a failure in football, to me, just because it isn't HD. The SEC network is basically ESPN3 with a dfferent name.
And I asked, Dr. Van Nostrand agrees with me!
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All-TigerNet [10492]
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Re: Kicking them out is never going to happen
Jun 8, 2016, 10:08 PM
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Wake has ARNOLD PALMER!!!!!!
Who's Tech got?
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Re: Kicking them out is never going to happen
Jun 8, 2016, 10:50 PM
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Michael Vick....
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Legend [16262]
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Agree the ACC shouldn't kick Wake out. It should buy them
Jun 8, 2016, 10:56 PM
[ in reply to Now that post WAS long and thorough ] |
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out. Great school, neat history, fun tradition - the world of premium college athletics though has passed them by. Their alumni, as small as it is, offers one of if not the lowest per capita athletic contributions of all ACC schools according to a chart I saw in the last month or so (can't find source - was linked on TNet).
I just don't see where Wake Forest has the fortitude, in its alumni base, in its fan base, in its faculty, and on its board, to spend the kind of resources that it takes today to stay competitive and add to the value of a Power 5 league. It begins to fly in the face of Wake's ultimate academic mission much more than other programs out there. It's tough, but it's true.
I can see a scenario where the ACC could buy Wake's way out of the conference to make room for a better fit, one that can truly add value to other members where Wake cannot. The league could also keep a scheduling arrangement in place where Wake would continue to keep historic rivals on their schedule. Outside side of that, Wake Forest is now and will continue to be simply a subsidy recipient of its league members at this level - not a contributor, but a drain, both competitively and financially. Nothing against Wake, but the ACC just isn't their father's Oldsmobile anymore.
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CU Guru [1189]
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I think we'll be singing a different tune when word gets out that
Jun 9, 2016, 2:12 AM
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Wake's president (with his ties to ND) are what landed the biggest fish in the college sports pond in the ACC. Hatch will get ND on board full-time and ND will basically choose #16.
I could very easily see a scenario where, in an attempt to screw over Fox, ESPN gets involved and corrales Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas to the ACC for 18 teams. ESPN can't afford to lose those teams to Fox like they may with the B1G. ESPN also can't afford to add all of those teams to the SEC because the SEC would demand way too much money and it would severely diminish ESPN's lone remaining asset in college sports (the ACC).
Those teams in the ACC plus OKST, KSU, WVU, TTU in the SEC would create a balance of power and ESPN would be back on top. Create a partnership with the two leagues and each school has a rival in the other conference to play on rivalry weekend like the ACC/SEC already do. Cuts down on the cost to the SEC while making the ACCN just as profitable.
This scenario also suffocates the B1G and leaves them with UCONN and Cincy as the only decent expansion options available. Payback for Delaney playing ESPN during negotiations.
ND, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas would be great additions in every sport plus they could act as travel partners with Louisville.
Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas would be smart to make this move too because they'd be big fish in a small pond as opposed to running the risk of becoming an also-ran in the SEC or B1G, or even PAC. But most importantly litigation is eliminated because all of the schools are taken care of (even splitting OK/OSU and KU/KSU) because they could become permanent rivals like the ACC/SEC already have in place. Plus neither conference network doubles up in any new state giving way to more subscriptions.
An ACC/SEC scheduling agreement, taking over the Big 12's spot in the Sugar Bowl. Each conf has 2 9-team divisions played round-robin. Eliminate conf champ games, go to an 8-team playoff.
But most importantly, the ACCN is worth more than any other network (or at least the same as the SECN because ESPN wouldn't dare pay the ACC more).
Dreams, y'all. Makes too much sense to happen though.
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Orange Blooded [4108]
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Re: LONG, but I'm sick of these Big East teams' sense of entitlement..
Jun 8, 2016, 11:26 PM
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Ok, if we are comparing the last 20 years, VT has had way more inpact, hands down. That said, Wake had our back when the rest of the Tobacco Rd Mafia wanted to destroy our program. Therefore, IMO we owe it to the Deacs to have their back. They have normally been much better than Duke in Football, are a good school, and have had good basketball in the past. Will they ever be a power? Highly unlikely, but they are a long time member school and deserve better than that. These days it's all what have you done for me lately and wanting instant results. Heck, while your at it, Miami has done nothing since joining, who wants to boot tbem? Wake actually won the ACC not that long ago, and went to Bowls for a couple more years after. With the right coach in place i see them being the kind of program like a smaller scale Iowa. Never get great recruits, but they take kids, feed em, coach em, grow em, and when they are Junior/Seniors, they make a difference, and get you to one of the 138 Bowls.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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+1. Will always want to have Wake's back. They aren't
Jun 8, 2016, 11:44 PM
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going anywhere, nor should they.
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Legend [16262]
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Wake Forest could play in bowl games as a member of the AAC
Jun 9, 2016, 12:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: LONG, but I'm sick of these Big East teams' sense of entitlement.. ] |
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also, plus make the NCAA tourney in basketball, baseball, soccer, lacrosse, what have you, just the same.
I read an article from earlier this year that states where it costs Wake Forest, due to their small size yet large Power 5 athletic obligations, $12,000 per student per year to compete in athletics. That cost, by the way, comes in the form of annual tuition. This is more than double what almost all other ACC schools must cover per student. Duke is about the same - but they have gads and gads of outside support, unlike Wake, which essentially has nothing in this category.
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Head Coach [781]
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Wake would be a much better fit in the SoCon
Jun 9, 2016, 12:29 AM
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Comparable enrollment, facilities, campus climate, and athletics. It doesnt really make since for a private school that size, with less than 5,000 undergrads, to be competing athletically in D1. Wake has much more in common with Furman than Clemson.
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Legend [15749]
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Wake is a member as long as Wake chooses to be a member.
Jun 9, 2016, 8:35 AM
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The ACC is not a cookie-cutter state school power conference, and I'm glad for it. Wake Forest has been a good conference member for 50 years and unless they decided that they didn't want to be a part of it anymore (and I can't imagine them deciding that), they aren't leaving.
Wasn't Wake one of the schools that stood with Clemson in the 1980s when the ACC imposed additional sanctions on us?
Isn't Wake the only school in the current ACC not named Clemson, FSU or VT that has won the football championship this millennium (sorry GT...no cheating!)?
Wasn't Wake the only ACC school to win the CWS until UVA last year?
Everyone understands that they don't bring the fan base or the TV market that a large state school brings. At some point the money grab has to stop and tradition and the broader considerations of a conference affiliation must count for something.
I'm not a huge fan of talk of kicking any school out, but I'd be more inclined to it if we were talking UNC (rampant corruption) or Notre Dame (fence sitters). On the other hand, I'm glad VT fans feel a sense of ownership in the conference. They've been in it for...what...12 years now? (Disclaimer: I didn't follow the link...just going on what the original poster said)
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CU Guru [1189]
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Haha...yes, you are right on all accounts except
Jun 9, 2016, 9:02 AM
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the fact that the VT fans believe they OWN the conference. They were quite obnoxious about it, honestly. They can't fathom why they have to share their money with Wake. Like the $71,000 they brought in per school from their trip to Shreveport last year. I've never complained about revenue sharing because we sure as heII don't contribute to that basketball income. I'm happy to share the bowl money with the good basketball schools. They actually earn more money for each conference member than bowl money does (and VT doesn't help in that department whatsoever). They also forget that when they got into the ACC, he money they were receiving was partially from Wake. They got what they signed up for.
By the way, they say "you're welcome for carrying the ACC banner while we were Clemsoning all over the place." If anything they made the conference look worse during those years. They would slaughter the ACC schedule and turn around and get slaughtered in every BCS bowl.
ALSO, we were congratulated for dropping our big game last year. To which the only proper response I could think of was "yeah, that one hurt probably as much as it did to drop 6 of your not-so-big games."
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