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Orange Blooded [3110]
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Dabo and the dead horse
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Jan 10, 2023, 6:45 PM
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The reason these other programs were able to utilize the portal so much, is because the positions they were filling had absolute CRAP players in that position. South Carolina had nothing but CRAP QBs on their roster, so they got rattler. Same with USC, OSU, and Tenn.
They didn’t have players that were serviceable or needed to be coached up, they had CRAP.
What position do we have absolutely nobody that can be serviceable?? What players do you think Dabo would cut from the team, or demote to put a free agent player in???
Flame away.
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CU Guru [1526]
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I don't think Dabo cuts players
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Jan 10, 2023, 6:51 PM
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maybe I'm wrong. I always thought if you got a scholarship here, you had it for the rest of your college playing time. IE it doesn't get pulled
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110%er [5013]
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Here’s the issue… players can leave anytime now so program…
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Jan 10, 2023, 7:42 PM
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Need ability to adjust their commitment at any time too. The days where you committed to one another through thick and thin are gone. Dabo and Clemson have yet to adjust to this new norm, but other programs and coached have. Adapt, evolve or perish. ?♂️
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110%er [7144]
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Re: Here’s the issue… players can leave anytime now so program…
Jan 10, 2023, 7:53 PM
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Just because one of your brothers shats on the table and gets sent to reform school does not mean that your family should also send you to reform school.
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110%er [5013]
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Wrong analogy… he shat on the table and didnt get punished…
Jan 10, 2023, 8:07 PM
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Now everyone can do it with impunity if they are so inclined.
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Asst Coach [703]
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Re: I don't think Dabo cuts players
Jan 10, 2023, 8:38 PM
[ in reply to I don't think Dabo cuts players ] |
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maybe I'm wrong. I always thought if you got a scholarship here, you had it for the rest of your college playing time. IE it doesn't get pulled
Your correct. If they wash out and won't be able to contribute he finds other roles that they can fill assuming they wish to remain on scholarship and earn it - at least that's the way it used to be and that was not just Dabo but other coaches that preceded him as well.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: I don't think Dabo cuts players
Jan 10, 2023, 9:28 PM
[ in reply to I don't think Dabo cuts players ] |
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Blue Sky
Your post made me think of something from Moneyball. Part of the premise of Billy Beane's approach was that you could more accurately predict an experienced player's future contribution than you could a draftee's
Perhaps one can more accurately assess a transfer player's potential contribution than that of some high school recruit. There are less chances of whiffing on them altogether.
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CU Medallion [52440]
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Re: I don't think Dabo cuts players
Jan 11, 2023, 9:35 AM
[ in reply to I don't think Dabo cuts players ] |
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I thought that college football scholarships were renewed from year to year.
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: Dabo and the dead horse
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Jan 10, 2023, 6:59 PM
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"Serviceable" is not going to be enough when the elite are stacking every position group with 4* and 5* players who are backed up by 4* and 5* players. Did you notice in the 4th Quarter how GA had almost no dropoff when they started putting in their backups?
If winning is your sole aim, you will go get the talent that is needed and by any means/costs necessary. We can be proud of who we are and the kind of people we recruit and develop, and the culture we have but the new landscape is creating a talent grab at all costs in order to secure championships, with the SEC as a conference and their AD leading the way. I'm not sure exactly how to combat that and maintain our culture and our values but I think that is the challenge moving forward in the new world of "professional" college athletics.
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Legend [19697]
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If it comes down wholly to dollars and cents
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Jan 10, 2023, 7:08 PM
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we'll never compete against the many schools with far deeper pockets among their "collectives." Would we even, ever be able to come up with 3-5 million like it looks like the coots did for Rattler to stay for a single player? I'm pretty sure Ruke and Davis will be getting a nice NIL deal, but nothing close to that. Certainly not what a Caleb Williams got from SoCal
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: If it comes down wholly to dollars and cents
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Jan 10, 2023, 7:16 PM
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Exactly, that is my point and concern about how we can compete against that. I think what it means is that coaching and developing players becomes even more important going forward than ever because if you can't get all of the quality talent you need on the front end, then you have to develop them to compete on the back end. Turn those 3* and 4* players into 4* and 5* players over time like we have been able to do in the past.
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Legend [19697]
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And the current portal rules throw a wrench into that
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Jan 10, 2023, 7:25 PM
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as many players patience just won't be there. Funny thing is, I think the media entities like ESPN, FOX, CBS and NBC will get involved somehow behind the scenes. They've paid astronomical amounts of money for the rights to these games, and the last thing they want is games like last night. Record low ratings and a complete mismatch. If things continue down this same path, we'll just see more of that, as the haves will just obliterate the have nots and the sport will die from apathy
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: And the current portal rules throw a wrench into that
Jan 10, 2023, 7:52 PM
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That is my fear as well...
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Legend [19697]
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The media contracts are the golden goose for the NCAA
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Jan 10, 2023, 7:58 PM
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they have clout. They also have $$$. They can influence the NCAA on the portal. They can lobby Congress for limits to the NIL $$$.
Will they? They keep getting ratings like last night, they'll use their influence. Poor ratings mean less advertising $$$ and you take a bath. All these conference networks ESPN has are expensive.
And the truth is, much as many think ESPN hates Clemson, Clemson gets ratings, They know that
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Asst Coach [703]
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Re: The media contracts are the golden goose for the NCAA
Jan 10, 2023, 9:01 PM
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they have clout. They also have $$$. They can influence the NCAA on the portal. They can lobby Congress for limits to the NIL $$$.
Will they? They keep getting ratings like last night, they'll use their influence. Poor ratings mean less advertising $$$ and you take a bath. All these conference networks ESPN has are expensive.
And the truth is, much as many think ESPN hates Clemson, Clemson gets ratings, They know that
I won't quote the legal precedent correctly but it's basically illegal to put a cap on what an individuals earning power can be unless it was some type of collective bargaining agreement by a PLAYERS UNION. So congress could be lobbied to pass laws and the courts can simply strike down the law. Going to be hard to limit a persons mobility and taking what the highest bidder will offer. A bit of hypocrisy here anyway. Coaches are jumping from school to school and making ridiculous money on the backs of players taking all the physical risks. The issue should have been addressed long ago and possibly could have but a certain faction wanted to hang on to the idea that these were amateur student athletes and they didn't have an equitable way for all D1 schools to pay the same amount. And nobody still has any idea how to do it.
My best guess is it morphs into a minor league system for the NFL - not sure how it would tie in with the university but only a couple dozen schools have money to pay significant salaries to all the players. The baseball model works - if you want the money you sign a contract with a commitment to play with a major league organization. Otherwise, you play for a scholarship (or part of a scholarship).
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Legend [19697]
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My longstandung comment on coaches stands
Jan 10, 2023, 9:28 PM
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they are professionals hired to do a job, and fired if they don't. Now if we want to go that route with players and declare them pros, then do it. Until then it's apples and oranges. Players aren't earning a salary, yet. Not all players earn NIL, there is no comparison.
Mobility is the same thing. You can leave a job for a better offer anytime you want and considering contractual obligations. As of right now at least, playing football isn't a job. If that's the route they want to go, then do away with all of the classes they need to attend and other responsibilities any other student has. Until then, they aren't an employee with employee rights.
Going to a year wait with certain exceptions is perfectly legal. Someone just has to have the stones to enforce it.
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110%er [7144]
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Re: And the current portal rules throw a wrench into that
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Jan 10, 2023, 7:59 PM
[ in reply to And the current portal rules throw a wrench into that ] |
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If the current trajectory leads to a destination of ruin for CFB, then that must first happen before CFB can be rebuilt from the ashes.
For Clemson, hopefully we can cool it with regard to more ultra fancy scoreboards and facilities, and use our incoming funds over the next several years to pay down our debt.
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Legend [19697]
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Media entities won't let it get to that
Jan 10, 2023, 8:04 PM
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to much $$$$$ at stake. Not sure how, but I think we see movement towards some changes sooner rather than later. NIL is here to stay, but limiting it, and adjusting the portal can fix this
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: If it comes down wholly to dollars and cents
Jan 10, 2023, 9:35 PM
[ in reply to If it comes down wholly to dollars and cents ] |
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Here's the top ten based on NIL money
Mike Farrell of Rivals revealed his top-10 programs for NIL benefit.
Alabama
Notre Dame
Nebraska
LSU
Ohio State
Clemson
Texas
Georgia
Oklahoma
USC
and here's the CFP top ten
1 Georgia (63) 1,575 15-0 1
2 TCU 1,484 13-2 3
3 Michigan 1,438 13-1 2
4 Ohio State 1,394 11-2 4
5 Alabama 1,303 11-2 5
6 Tennessee 1,294 11-2 6
7 Penn State 1,200 11-2 9
8 Washington 1,097 11-2 12
9 Tulane 1,025 12-2 14
10 Utah 876 10-4 7
I don't know how to analyze this math-wise, but on the face of it, the correlation between NIL money and rankings seems pretty low.
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All-American [557]
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Re: If it comes down wholly to dollars and cents
Jan 11, 2023, 9:43 AM
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What is Farrell measuring "for NIL benefit"? I have yet to see us ranked in any poll regarding NIL.
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CU Medallion [52440]
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Re: If it comes down wholly to dollars and cents
Jan 11, 2023, 9:39 AM
[ in reply to If it comes down wholly to dollars and cents ] |
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Disney/ESPN is not going to want the same rich schools competing for the championship every year. That will lose viewers quickly. They will be looking for some ideas.
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Orange Blooded [4276]
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Re: Dabo and the dead horse
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Jan 10, 2023, 7:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo and the dead horse ] |
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Then we will compete with wake and Duke again for who goes to Shreveport
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110%er [7144]
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Dabo & the dead horse …Duke/WF is not the ‘dead horse’
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Jan 10, 2023, 8:22 PM
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Competing with Wake and Duke will be a better option than spending ourselves into a position where we cannot service our debt.
If the NCAA / ESPN continues on this trajectory, then Disney will spin off their broadcasting business (which BTW is small compared to Disney’s non-sports media business, theme parks, and hotel / conference center businesses).
If ( when you see that Disney sells off ABC / ESPN, then the financial stage will be set for ABC / ESPN to file bankruptcy if their sports business model does not produce enough cash flow to cover the interest payments on their debt.
Cancellation of ESPN’s media rights contract with CFB will then be cancelled and either renegotiated with a much reduced payout to the teams, or (less likely) the NCAA and their conferences with special affiliation with ESPN will be in a world of ish.
Without revenues from the ESPN contracts with the ACC and CFP, Clemson will not be able to service our debt. (Neither will bunches of other big-time programs.)
As dystopian as the ‘compete against the W.Forests and Dukes of this world may sound if we dare to exit the monetary arms race, then at least we will have paid down enough debt by that time to keep Well Fargo or Citi from running Clemson’s athletic department.
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Legend [19697]
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DIsney as a whole is losing money hand over fist
Jan 10, 2023, 8:34 PM
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stock price is way down. ESPN ain't making any money for them
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110%er [5013]
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Competing for nattys is where Clemson belongs and needs to
Jan 10, 2023, 9:00 PM
[ in reply to Dabo & the dead horse …Duke/WF is not the ‘dead horse’ ] |
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Stay laser focused. It is our #1 advertising tool! It draws high quality students and faculty. Everyone loves a winner!
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Asst Coach [703]
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Re: Competing for nattys is where Clemson belongs and needs to
Jan 10, 2023, 9:19 PM
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Stay laser focused. It is our #1 advertising tool! It draws high quality students and faculty. Everyone loves a winner!
Not really. Clemson is mostly an Engineering School at this stage. The average students SAT has gone way up in recent years but we are not a "winner" among Engineering Schools. That's places like MIT, Carnegie Mellon, Cal Poly Tech, Rice, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Ga Tech, Stanford, and Northwestern among others. Clemson doesn't scratch any lists that I have seen and it's rated even lower in the realm of Business Schools. It is a bigger and higher rated school than in years past but it's not in the top tier of anything.
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Orange Blooded [2951]
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Re: Competing for nattys is where Clemson belongs and needs to
Jan 10, 2023, 9:34 PM
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Clemson University continues to be recognized as one of the top public universities in the country, coming in at No. 27 in the 2020 U.S. News & World Report ranking of 381 overall national universities.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: Dabo and the dead horse
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Jan 10, 2023, 7:07 PM
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Getting a portal player doesn't mean you have garbage. You do realize there are elite players in the portal also right? Is georgia garbage because Kirby got 2 WRs in it after winning back to back championships? Nuance dude. This whole argument where someone takes the opposite position and exaggerates it is ridiculous. I think there are OL, WRs, and DBs that are better than what we have
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Orange Blooded [3110]
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Re: Dabo and the dead horse
Jan 10, 2023, 11:06 PM
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Can you name any?
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: Dabo and the dead horse
Jan 11, 2023, 9:18 AM
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Off the top of my head, both WRs Georgia got in the portal, the starting OL from Bama. That's literally off the top of my head.
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All-American [557]
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Re: Dabo and the dead horse
Jan 11, 2023, 9:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo and the dead horse ] |
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the recent FSU portal pick up, db from the state of SC-
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Legend [18790]
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Our WR and OL groups were crap in 2023
Jan 10, 2023, 7:17 PM
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so there's that.
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All-In [26514]
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Is this a prediction ?***
Jan 10, 2023, 8:06 PM
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All-In [26022]
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Re: Is this a prediction ?***
Jan 10, 2023, 8:30 PM
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We will have some more transfers so we will see.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Dabo doesn't cut, but our WRs are atrocious
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Jan 10, 2023, 8:29 PM
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except Williams.
When Drew Swinney and Brannon Spector are playing meaningful snaps in the orange bowl then you have WR room issues...........they should never be in our 2deep room
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Asst Coach [703]
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Re: Dabo doesn't cut, but our WRs are atrocious
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Jan 10, 2023, 9:23 PM
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except Williams.
When Drew Swinney and Brannon Spector are playing meaningful snaps in the orange bowl then you have WR room issues...........they should never be in our 2deep room
Couldn't agree more but those two have family ties. Other players of equal ability (Collins and EJ) were competing for snaps with these two. No great loss but they can find a better situation than running third team to the coaches kid.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Dabo and the dead horse
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Jan 10, 2023, 9:23 PM
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Lemon,
I don 't think "serviceable is the standard" is a very inspiring motto.
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Orange Blooded [3110]
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Re: Dabo and the dead horse
Jan 10, 2023, 11:09 PM
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I agree. What I’m saying is, “Whats the point of replacing one avg production player with one from the portal who couldn’t get on the field at his last school or schools?”
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Dabo and the dead horse
Jan 11, 2023, 8:50 AM
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Well, sometimes another school might be stacked at a certain position whereas we may not.
I don't think anyone is taking someone from the portal that they don't believe will improve their team.
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All-In [44054]
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Okay, but why should a player like Rattler who was benched at Oklahoma
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Jan 10, 2023, 11:08 PM
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be able to come in, be better than our starter who has been in the program three years, and beat our team of top 10 talent?
Something stinks.
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Orange Blooded [3977]
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Re: Dabo and the dead horse
Jan 11, 2023, 9:37 AM
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I don't think it's a player or lack of talent issue at all....at any position. I just think all the new coaches/staff brought in...from the coordinators to the position coaches just haven't lived up to the standards of the previous staff. Eason I'd say is the lone bright spot.
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110%er [6397]
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Re: Dabo and the dead horse
Jan 11, 2023, 9:40 AM
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Did you watch our WR and safety play this year?
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