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110%er [3682]
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Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 10:58 AM
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I've seen a lot of the typical haters bring up his first 6 years lately. We are nearing the end of one of our most successful regular season's of all time, and these losers are grasping at straws.
There are several reasons that his first 6 years were below average, and Brownell's coaching ability is not one of them. First off, in Brownell's first year, he did something that Purnell could not do in 7 years. He won an NCAA tournament game. He did this with a team that lost their best player in Booker. Stitt and especially Jerai Grant improved under Brownell.
After the first year, Talent was sparse on the team. Our starting lineup in year 2 was Devin Booker, Milton Jennings, Brian Narcisse, Tanner Smith, and Andre Young. That is not going to get it done folks. I appreciate these players contributions to Clemson Basketball, but Coach K woudn't have won with this team.
On top of this, due to the timing of OP's departure, Brownell didn't have a recruiting class in his first year. Brownell signed a large second class, and the headliner Bernard Sullivan ended up being a bust. The only 2 contributors from that class ended up being KJ McDaniels and Rod Hall. KJ McDaniels left after his Junior year, so the only player in his first class that stayed until their senior year was Rod Hall. I think we can all agree that it would be unfair to expect Brownell to recruit instant impact players to start. We have never recruited that caliber of player. Clemson has always depended our experienced players to develop and be relied upon. In year 5, Brownell only had 1 recruited senior on his team.
Is it really fair to judge Brownell's current coaching ability and current state of the basketball program on the fact that the talent he inherited was bad, and his first recruiting class was bad? Our current program has come a long way since he inherited it. When he inherited the program, we were a team that had lost 3 ncaa tournament games as the better seed, but still had the worst history in the ACC and some of the worst facilities. Right now we have significantly more talent in the program, way better facilities, and we are recruiting at a higher level than ever before under Brownell.
Our program is currently on the best run that we have ever seen in Clemson basketball history. Enjoy it!
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All-In [10800]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 11:08 AM
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Great post Mountaineers. Our basketball team is in the hands of one of the most respected coaches in the game and we are winning at record levels so enjoy the ride.
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TigerNet Immortal [172211]
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I want all sports at Clemson to do well. Doesn't matter who is the coach.***
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Feb 20, 2025, 11:11 AM
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CU Medallion [20850]
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Game Day Hero [4541]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 11:13 AM
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Good post. I can't stand them either and there are a lot of them not only concerning Brownell but Dabo
Ridiculous
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TigerNet Elite [69781]
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If you want to ignore the results of his first 6 years...
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Feb 20, 2025, 11:16 AM
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you must also acknowledge that the improvement is, at least in part if not largely, due to the significant decline of ACC's men's basketball. There was a time when the league was the nations best. That's certainly no longer the case which begs the question, has Clemson really gotten better or have the other teams just regressed.
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110%er [3682]
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Re: If you want to ignore the results of his first 6 years...
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Feb 20, 2025, 11:28 AM
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Im not ignoring the results. I said the first 6 years were below average. I am acknowledging the results and showing reasons why we were below average and why we are so much better now.
The acc is down this year, but it hasnt been nearly as bad as the media projects. We have also had a lot more success in the non conference and in the tournament recently.
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Tiger Titan [50664]
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No one is saying to ignore the first 6 years.
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Feb 20, 2025, 11:28 AM
[ in reply to If you want to ignore the results of his first 6 years... ] |
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They are part of his tenure here, after all.
However, it is important to view those six years in context. Purnell left in the middle of the night, and I believe he did so because he did not believe he could win NCAA Tournament games at Clemson. He felt that he had taken the program as far as he could, and he also realized that some lean years were likely in store due to some recruiting misses he had.
In short, Purnell capitalized on the DePaul job while his stock was high. He didn't even give Clemson a chance to match the offer.
Brownell inherited somewhat of a mess as a result, but thankfully he persevered. He met with donors to raise money for new facilities. He continued pressing forward. We are a much better program today as a result.
You touched on something that is getting really old, and that is this discussion of how weak the ACC is. It is mentioned to try to undermine what Brad has accomplished. I don't recall any of you bashing the weak ACC in football when we were more of a national player. And you shouldn't have been, because our weak ACC was not hurting us. We were winning those games, but we were also beating teams from outside the ACC who were nationally ranked and very talented.
We are doing the same in basketball. Sure, the ACC might not be what it used to be, but we aren't just winning ACC games. We are beating teams like Alabama and Kentucky in non-conference regular season games, and teams such as Baylor and Arizona in the NCAA Tournament. That shows that we are a legitimately good program, not simply a team beating up on weak ACC teams and nothing else.
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110%er [3682]
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Re: No one is saying to ignore the first 6 years.
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Feb 20, 2025, 11:35 AM
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Brownell's behind the scenes work is likely why he kept his job after a disappointing year 6.
Apparently brownell has built a fundraising machine for clemson basketball. Jordan roper acknowledged this on tiger hour and also said they have implemented his strategies and techniques to all sports at Clemson including football.
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Orange Phenom [14991]
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Re: No one is saying to ignore the first 6 years.
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Feb 20, 2025, 1:10 PM
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Replies: 15 | visibility 1155
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Clemson mountaineers®
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Re: No one is saying to ignore the first 6 years. 1 2
Feb 20, 2025, 11:35 AM [ in reply to No one is saying to ignore the first 6 years. ]
Reply
Brownell's behind the scenes work is likely why he kept his job after a disappointing year 6.
Apparently brownell has built a fundraising machine for clemson basketball. Jordan roper acknowledged this on tiger hour and also said they have implemented his strategies and techniques to all sports at Clemson including football.
IT IS MIND BOGGLING THAT ALL THESE LOSERS ON THIS SITE ARE STILL ON THE BROWNELL HATE TRAIN. EVERYONE KNOWS IT DIDNT GO WELL THE FIRST FEW YEARS BUT NOW THAT WE ARE HAVING SUCCESS THESE PATHETIC DWEEBS STILL FIND IT NECESSARY TO COME HERE AND BASH HIM. QITE SAD ACTUALLY.
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All-TigerNet [5832]
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WHO IS BASHING BROWNELL?
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Feb 20, 2025, 2:40 PM
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I’M YELLING BECAUSE YOURE APPARENTLY HARD OF HEARING.
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CU Medallion [18449]
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110%er [3682]
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Re: No one is saying to ignore the first 6 years.
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Feb 20, 2025, 4:32 PM
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Are you insane? Seriously?
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CU Medallion [18449]
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Re: No one is saying to ignore the first 6 years.
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Feb 20, 2025, 10:47 PM
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“they have implemented his strategies and techniques to all sports at Clemson including football”. You wrote it. Just absolute nonsense.
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110%er [3682]
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Re: No one is saying to ignore the first 6 years.
Feb 21, 2025, 12:01 AM
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“they have implemented his strategies and techniques to all sports at Clemson including football”. You wrote it. Just absolute nonsense.
I guess jordan roper spouts nonsense then? Can you explain to me how you would know more about Clemson fundraising than jordan roper? He works in iptay. Do you listen to tiger hour with brownell? Lotta good information on there, if you are actually a basketball fan. It could make you sound less stupid.
Also, simple fundraising is not the reason we have been dominant in football the last 10 years. You are so dramatic.
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CU Medallion [18449]
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Re: No one is saying to ignore the first 6 years.
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Feb 21, 2025, 7:45 AM
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Was that a literal quote from Jordan or your paraphrase? Because either way, it’s absolutely absurd. If he said it, I’m sure he meant it as an innocuous show of support for Brownell that, of course, got used for your own purposes on here.
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Tiger Titan [50664]
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God forbid that our football program take anything of value from anyone else!
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Feb 21, 2025, 11:31 AM
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Oh the horror!
It is hilarious how it pains you and some of the others here that our mighty football program could learn something from our basketball program! LOL!!
In the real world, successful programs learn from other successful programs. Clemson basketball has surely learned things from our football program and adopted them for basketball use. And yes, Clemson football has likely (hopefully!) learned things from our basketball program to improve and get better also.
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CU Medallion [19049]
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Re: God forbid that our football program take anything of value from anyone else!
Feb 21, 2025, 11:58 AM
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Oh the horror!
It is hilarious how it pains you and some of the others here that our mighty football program could learn something from our basketball program! LOL!!
In the real world, successful programs learn from other successful programs. Clemson basketball has surely learned things from our football program and adopted them for basketball use. And yes, Clemson football has likely (hopefully!) learned things from our basketball program to improve and get better also.
I actually will give you credit on that one. Different programs can learn from each other.
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Ultimate Tiger [33845]
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Can't help yourself can you
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Feb 20, 2025, 12:33 PM
[ in reply to No one is saying to ignore the first 6 years. ] |
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Had to nitpick football in defense of basketball. You made a lot of good points in defense of Brownell but then had to use football for comparison. Your agenda is clear.
While you're doing that, ask yourself this. Would Dabo have been given six years to get football relevant. He thought he was going to get fired after his second full season in 2010. But this would be where you start comparing facilities and money spent. Keep in mind CU football didn't have the complex and other stuff back then.
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Tiger Titan [50664]
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Here are your answers.
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Feb 21, 2025, 11:34 AM
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1. No, Dabo wouldn't have been given six years to improve the football program. Then again, he also didn't take over a football program that had arguably the worst football history in the ACC and was at a huge funding and facility disadvantage. Rather, he took over a program fresh off a top 5 recruiting class, new facilities built in the few years prior with more on the way, all at a school with one of the richest football traditions in the conference as well as a documented history of national success on the field.
2. Dabo wasn't about to get fired after 2010. He was justifiably concerned about things at that point, since we had our first losing season in over a decade. But the stakes are higher for a sport that has as much money, passion, and interest as Clemson football does.
These aren't difficult questions to answer. Understanding the very different situations that Clemson football and Clemson basketball find themselves in shouldn't be hard for you.
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Rival Killer [2903]
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Re: If you want to ignore the results of his first 6 years...
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Feb 20, 2025, 11:35 AM
[ in reply to If you want to ignore the results of his first 6 years... ] |
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But if our SRS trend is upward, wouldn't you agree that things are improving regardless of conference weakness? It's a strong analytic. Hope I stayed on topic.
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Tiger Titan [50664]
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Crickets as usual.***
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Feb 21, 2025, 11:35 AM
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Valley Legend [12539]
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Re: If you want to ignore the results of his first 6 years...
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Feb 20, 2025, 1:22 PM
[ in reply to If you want to ignore the results of his first 6 years... ] |
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you must also acknowledge that the improvement is, at least in part if not largely, due to the significant decline of ACC's men's basketball. There was a time when the league was the nations best. That's certainly no longer the case which begs the question, has Clemson really gotten better or have the other teams just regressed.
How does the strength of the ACC negate our sweet 16 or elite 8 appearances? How does a week ACC negate our top 10 wins over Duke and UK? If anything, a weak ACC hurts our ability to garner a top seed in the dance.
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TigerNet Elite [69781]
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I didn't say it negated it!***
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Feb 20, 2025, 2:04 PM
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CU Medallion [18160]
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Just devalued it then?***
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Feb 20, 2025, 3:25 PM
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CU Medallion [18160]
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I don't see people making these arguments for football, where the level of
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Feb 20, 2025, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to If you want to ignore the results of his first 6 years... ] |
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competition has also fallen through the floor...Funny how the ACC sucking in football never seems to taint our accomplishments in that sport huh?
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All-TigerNet [5832]
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We just won another ACC championship in football.
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Feb 20, 2025, 5:21 PM
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We should expect one in basketball.
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Standout [208]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 11:27 AM
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Amen Brother! Tell it!
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CU Medallion [19049]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 11:32 AM
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Good points. Also remember there are two eras in Coach Brownell's program. The pre upgrades to facilities to the basketball program and the post facility upgrades. Big difference of success in the post upgrades.
Also if look at the expectation of another NCAAT, since the last 3 years of Oliver Purnell era that will be 8 NCAATs in the last 18 years. That is almost half that time period Clemson has gone to the NCAAT. Two of the winningist programs in the ACC NC State and Wake Forest from Tobacco Road don't have that sustained consistent success in that span.
Oliver Purnell deserve some small credit to that what he built and attracted Brad Brownell to the job.
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CU Medallion [18449]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 12:32 PM
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You know full well that post was only made in response to someone trying to compare Brownell to a certain coach who is only in his 6th year. That certain coach having an ACC title and a winning record against Clemson in that time. This is why I don't believe that you're even really a Clemson fan. You are deliberating exacerbating a debate that is of no benefit to Clemson or Brad, even from a purely rhetorical angle. And, as usual, you attack the former players as a part of your defense. Could have left this all nice and tidy in the one thread that misrepresented stats but that's not good enough. Have to start an entire new post on a false premise.
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Valley Legend [12539]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 1:23 PM
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Just like that, Baghdad Bob makes an appearance.
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CU Medallion [18449]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 1:36 PM
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Baghdad Bob references giving information that is self-evidently false. So jstone D329 would you like to provide a specific example of the false information I provided. Because I'm pretty sure you can't.
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Valley Legend [12539]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
Feb 21, 2025, 8:45 PM
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Baghdad Bob references giving information that is self-evidently false. So jstone D329 would you like to provide a specific example of the false information I provided. Because I'm pretty sure you can't.
From Animal house: all is well, all is well
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110%er [3682]
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CU Medallion [18449]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 1:37 PM
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You and your need for attention despite being fundamentally unable to draw relevant conclusions from otherwise simple data.
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Paw Warrior [4830]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 12:34 PM
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Recruiting is the coach's job...
Turns out that coaches who can recruit and are mediocre coaches do better than coaches that are mediocre recruiters and good coaches.
His inability to attract talent and keep it is part of the reason he wasn't successful.
He did turn developmental players into marginal to solid ACC talent early in his career at Clemson but even that fell off before the last 2 years.
Instant transfers and NIL saved him and our program.
I'm fine with that, but stop trying to rewrite the past.
Won an NCAA play-in game isn't the same as winning a game in the actual tournament to correct just one of your lies.
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110%er [3682]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 1:30 PM
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Everything i said was true.
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TigerNet Elite [69781]
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Whatever helps you sleep at night princess!***
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Feb 20, 2025, 2:16 PM
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Dynasty Maker [3442]
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First Four game
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Feb 21, 2025, 9:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Brownell's first 6 years ] |
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counts as an NCAA Tournament game. Stop rewriting history.
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TigerNet Elite [69781]
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While the First Four is the official start of March Madness...
Feb 21, 2025, 1:33 PM
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if you aren't in the Round of 64, you aren't in the tournament. It's called a "play-in" round for a reason. Teams have the "play their way in" to determine the last four teams to actually qualify for the 64-team field. Trying to re-write history indeed!
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Game Changer [1914]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 12:40 PM
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It took a long time to get here and I thought I would never see this in my lifetime, but i think we may be entering the golden era of Clemson basketball. Call me crazy but just mo. Have I lost my marbles?
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TigerNet Elite [69781]
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I remain cautiously optimistic.***
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Feb 20, 2025, 2:20 PM
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Paw Warrior [5049]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 5:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brownell's first 6 years ] |
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Well, maybe both.
Maybe Clemson got a bit better, or we did not get much worse like the rest of the ACC.
Hang on to your marbles as long as possible.
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Heisman Winner [85723]
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WRONG. NEVER is a really long time. Tates Locke recruited "Instant Impact
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Feb 20, 2025, 1:04 PM
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Players" all over the yard. Not saying he did it legally, but he did it, period. So saying Clemson has never recruited Instant Impact Players is a patent falsehood.
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CU Medallion [18449]
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Re: WRONG. NEVER is a really long time. Tates Locke recruited "Instant Impact
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Feb 20, 2025, 1:47 PM
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Barnes was here for only four years. Inherited what was considered the worst team in the HISTORY of the entire ACC. Managed to be ranked at some point in every season and made three straight NCAA tourneys (Brad still working on a second straight). He had a higher average SRS over those 4 seasons than Brownell has during this golden age run from 21-25. Everything about CM's appraisal of Clemson history is wrong. Which is why I bother to keep hitting back at their nonsense. It is all rooted in denigrating Clemson overall.
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Tiger Titan [50664]
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Barnes also took one of the highest ranked Clemson basketball teams
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Feb 21, 2025, 11:42 AM
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in the preseason to a losing ACC record and a first round upset in the NCAA Tournament.
If you're going to praise him for the Slab 5, at least be honest about his last team with future pros Greg Buckner, Terrell McIntyre, and Harold Jamison being one of the most underachieving teams in Clemson basketball history.
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Head Coach [903]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 1:59 PM
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No you haven't seen "a lot" of haters posting about BB's first 6 years lately. I read a lot, almost every thread, but post rarely. I have seen almost no threads knocking BB, much less his first 6 years. YOU are flogging a dead horse. A couple people don't like BB. Big deal. You are not going to change their minds, but yet you, and a few others, keep bringing up these very few people like they are a majority, or even 10% of the people on here. It is YOU that keeps banging this drum, just so you can try to make a point very few people disagree with. There are 5 people on here that don't like Dabo either. Big deal. Just. Ignore. Them. You will be a much happier person if you quit flogging this dead horse for gosh sakes.
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Paw Warrior [4830]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 3:04 PM
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I mean, it's mental illness...
and it's one or two people using multiple ids.
They aren't even subtle about it anymore.
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CU Medallion [20850]
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110%er [3682]
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Paw Warrior [5049]
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A bit of a stretch to call a playin game as a win.
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Feb 20, 2025, 5:12 PM
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Technically, I guess it is correct. But pretty much a stretch.
He also did it with Purnells players. When he got his own, results dropped.
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Rival Killer [2903]
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Re: A bit of a stretch to call a playin game as a win.
Feb 21, 2025, 8:54 PM
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Until the last 7-8 years.
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Oculus Spirit [44336]
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 5:34 PM
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Dang man can you not be happy. Why the divide? Some people don’t like the guy, so what? Continuing the post about the greatness of Brownell will not change anything. I personally have no problem with the guy, but just hate the constant back and forth on the same stuff.
Some of you have the orange colored glasses on, but not for all things Clemson. Seems like everything in life we all see things differently. So is life. Enjoy the season and GO TIGERS!
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Legend [6989]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Brownell's first 6 years
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Feb 20, 2025, 5:52 PM
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Very happy with where our record sits and cant wait for them to bring home a trophy!
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Dynasty Maker [3442]
TigerPulse: 71%
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Brilliant post
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Feb 21, 2025, 9:28 AM
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Excellent analysis. The Lunatic Fringe and Toxic T Netters lose their collective minds in three, two, one...
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CU Medallion [20850]
TigerPulse: 100%
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jstone, your scok is posting...
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Feb 21, 2025, 7:58 PM
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...again.
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CU Medallion [20857]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 14648
Joined: 2009
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Brad has proven himself very adept at acquiring transfers,
Feb 21, 2025, 12:55 PM
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something he had to employ here right off the bat. That skill has continued unabated since as the significant exodus of his high school recruits and developmental aspect annually has required this component. Now that these transfers no longer have to sit out a year, he's been able to compress this into an immediate year of productivity for us, and we are all the better for it. The rules of the game have evolved right into his wheelhouse. Yay Tigers!
If he could manage to flip the s-c-r-i-p-t on one possession games to his favor, he could be truly dangerous.
As far as the first 6 years, 10 years, or 12 years, what's past is past. The painful decade of shortcomings lives only in experience and hazy memories, not what's happening today. The here and now is light years ahead of what Clemson fans had to endure. Hoorah!
Go Tigers! Go Brad!
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