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Top TigerNet [30206]
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A thought about why I'm optimistic on Clemson football.
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Jun 9, 2025, 12:54 PM
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This will be long, so bear with me or just skip it. Also, this will be a comparison of Clemson today and FSU in the 1990s. I know most Clemson fans have a very low regard for anything FSU (perfectly understandable) so fee free to ignore this message if you so desire. With that intro, here goes -
I see Dabo as being very similar to Bobby Bowden in the late 80s and 90s.
But, here is the bottom line: Bobby had an outstanding coaching staff and he let them coach.
During the dynasty he had Mickey Andrews as DC. He also had Chuck Amato as LB coach and he had O'Dell Haggins as DL coach. All three were excellent at their jobs.
On offense he had Brad Scott, then Mark Richt as OC. He also had Billy Sexton (an unsung but outstanding RB coach) and John Eason (only slightly better known but probably the best WR coach in the country).
Bobby used to say, "I coach the coaches and let them coach the players." He was extremely involved with the coaches. He had unbelievably high expectations of those coaches and he held them to those expectations. They delivered.
He lost coaches along the way. Amato left for Nancy St. was the biggest loss. John Eason went to cooterville with Scott. But, the core remained in tact.
Then, Mark Richt left for UGA. Bobby made the worst decision of his coaching career and promoted his son to OC. Shortly after that Mickey retired. The dynasty was dead. FSU went through was is called "the Lost Decade" around Tallahassee.
Fast forward to Clemson. Dabo had a great coaching staff. Jeff Scott and Brent Venables were outstanding. Dabo, while extrememly involved, let those guys coach. Then, in a short period of time, both left. Dabo made some hires and promotions that didn't work out.
Now, Dabo has hired Garrett Riley, Matt Luke and Tom Allen (along with a few others). While Allen may not be equal to Brent, he's a lot closer to Brent than he is to Wes. Garret Riley is, IMHO, similar to Richt in the ealry 90s - young guy with great potential. And, I think Luke is as good as any OL coach in the country.
So, Dabo now has an outstanding coaching staff - Similar to what he had in the glory years just a few years ago. And, he knows how to "coach the coaches" and have extremely high expectations of them and hold them accountable to achieve those expectations.
I look at Matt and Garrett and Tom, along with Dabo. And, I smile.
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Hall of Famer [8101]
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Re: A thought about why I'm optimistic on Clemson football.
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Jun 9, 2025, 1:04 PM
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I agree. I think Dabo got comfortable with the status quo when he had those long term coaches. Then when they left he wanted to rock the boat as little as possible so he went with internal guys hoping they'd work out, kinda like how Clemson gave him a shot when he was a young nobody. Unfortunately those hires didn't work out, and he has realized that and adjusted accordingly. For now the ship appears to be righted but it will be interesting what happens after this season when Riley likely leaves for a HC job.
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Tiger Titan [50955]
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I share your optimism regarding Clemson football.
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Jun 9, 2025, 1:05 PM
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I really like the recent hires Dabo has made. Allen and Luke both seem like home run hires. I was disappointed in Riley early on, but last year we improved on offense. I believe that other hires such as Eason and Rumph will prove to be good ones too.
I still can't believe Dabo ever thought it was a good idea to make some of the hires he did. Unqualified coaches rarely work out, no matter how well you know them or what you think they might eventually be capable of. To his credit, he recognized those errors and seems to have corrected them in significant ways.
I am super excited about the recruiting momentum as well. The current staff deserves a ton of credit for our recent turnaround in recruiting, as do the financial incentives we are now utilizing more fully.
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Rival Killer [2693]
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Dabo was an unqualified coach too
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Jun 9, 2025, 1:42 PM
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So always remember that in this discussion
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Top TigerNet [30206]
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Unqualified coaches that work out.
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Jun 9, 2025, 2:34 PM
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Mark Richt is a great example. After graduating from Miami, he came to FSU as a GA who worked with QBs. Bobby took a liking to him and recognized his potential. He promised him, "As soon as I have an opening, you are hired." But, there was no opening. So, after 2 or 3 seasons as a GA he left for ECU to be the QB coach. After one year, Bobby called him and said, "I have an opening. It's yours if you want it."
To the outside observor, Mark was not qualified to be the QB coach at FSU. But, it certainly worked out.
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All-In [10613]
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To Dabo's credit & discredit
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Jun 9, 2025, 1:53 PM
[ in reply to I share your optimism regarding Clemson football. ] |
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He gave those guys an opportunity. Each of those men will be better for it, even if Clemson football wasn't necessarily better for it, directly anyway. He gave them the opportunities, gave them time, and when/if it didn't work out, he made the move. He's not impetuous and certainly doesn't play to the media or the fan base. He follows his own game plan, for better or for worst - but overall it's been very much better.
If we just shut up and let the man do his thing, ultimately we'll be just fine.
Believe it or not, he does know what he's doing.
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Orange Beast [6116]
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Re: A thought about why I'm optimistic on Clemson football.
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Jun 9, 2025, 1:25 PM
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Nicely done.
I disagree with you one one point though. Most Clemson fans that I know have a high regard for FSU Football, and especially for Bobby Bowden. Back when i was a Clemson student from 1991-1996 FSU was in their heyday, and you were awesome. When we played FSU the only question was "how bad are we going to lose to these guys"? Those teams would put up 21 points in the blink of an eye and turn a competitive game into a blowout in a heart beat. Those teams were scary-good. We got whipped bad several times when I was a student.
Don't mistake "hate" for your rival as lack of respect. All my Clemson buddies respect FSU...we hate ya, but there's a lot of respect. Programs that we don't respect as reserved for mouthy fan bases that haven't done much like Nancy State, or won any championships like South Carolina, etc...
Bobby had a formula that worked. Hire great coaches and let them coach. Mickey Andrews, Mark Richt, Brad Scott, etc....were awesome. Dabo resembles Bobby Bowden more than any other coach I can remember. I don't know if Mike Norvell is going to win big at FSU, but what I do know is that FSU is a sleeping giant. Bobby used to refer to Clemson as a "sleeping giant" with tons of potential, if we would just get out of our own way...lol. Does that sound familiar? We have no doubt FSU will be back, sooner or later.
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Tiger Titan [50955]
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I agree about Bowden and FSU.
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Jun 9, 2025, 1:39 PM
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I couldn't stand them in their heyday in the 90s and 00s, but that was because they were just so good and we seemingly had no chance to beat them. I had a ton of respect for them and their high level success.
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Orange Beast [6116]
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Re: I agree about Bowden and FSU.
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Jun 9, 2025, 1:54 PM
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BINGO.
So true...we were the JV squad to their Varsity.
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Starter [253]
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Re: A thought about why I'm optimistic on Clemson football.
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Jun 9, 2025, 1:32 PM
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Well said, Bret!
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Game Changer [1921]
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Re: A thought about why I'm optimistic on Clemson football.
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Jun 9, 2025, 2:06 PM
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It might be Dabo's "old fashioned" approach that I respect most. His idea is to use the Clemson football program to teach boys how to be men and create complete people and not just winning, although I am cerain that is a huge part of it. I think players see that and feel that. It's why no amount of money was going to lure Klubnik away and whyI think recruiting is going so well. We have the right coaches and the very best aim and attitude of any program out there.
For those that think Riley is going to be snagged as a head coach I think he is not ready. He has several more years to prove himself. As good as we became last year I think he has yet to put together a complete season where the offense performs at it's best for all four quarters in the big games as well as the ones we are predicted to win easily. When he accomplishes that then he'll be HC bait.
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Top TigerNet [30206]
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Teach boys how to be men.
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Jun 9, 2025, 2:43 PM
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You are right on.
Bobby and Dabo both have that in common.
But, just one story about other coaches.
John Eason (who had a doctorate in education and when he retired from coaching became a professor at UCF), was the epitome of that. Back in the 1990s FSU had amazing WR corp. Not the most talented, but plenty talented, but elite in their execution. The players would always talk about their relationship with him. Many claimed he talked about life more than he talked about football during position meetings. He talked about their families, their relationships, their classes, their future, what decisions they were needing to make, etc.
I won't go into great detail about how he could do that except to say that Mark Richt was a genius when it came to developing the offense FSU used from the time Charlie Ward became the starter until Richt left for UGA.
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Game Changer [1921]
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Game Changer [1845]
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Re: A thought about why I'm optimistic on Clemson football.
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Jun 9, 2025, 3:31 PM
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Well said Bret. I often used the statement that the really great HC's just have to be smart enough to know that they don't have to be the smartest guy in the room. You can't run a program and micromanage every position coach. To use another FSU example: Jimbo Fisher.
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Commissioner [1211]
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Re: A thought about why I'm optimistic on Clemson football.
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Jun 9, 2025, 5:04 PM
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Being that most of us are big clemson football fans Dabo over all has had an incredible career so far. And there are some parallels to bowden. However in my opinion Dabo's last 10 years (should he coach 10 more) will be different, its a complete unknown right now although there are some positive signs in what he is doing.
My guess is that Dabo coaches about 5 more years at clemson, but hopefully its 10 if we have good success. Having success is the key, even though Jimbo Fisher is a very unlikable person overall, for a time he tapped into what FSU needed to do, won a championship and made the playoff, recruited well. Which never would have happend if Bobby Bowden had been given an endless farewell tour like he wanted.
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Game Changer [1728]
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Re: A thought about why I'm optimistic on Clemson football.
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Jun 9, 2025, 5:29 PM
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Bobby Bowden was a heck of a coach. The bile we still taste from that era has to do with the double whammy that was the firing of Danny while watching FSU against whom, without Danny, we were not competitive until more than a decade later. There were times it felt like you all were running up the score or had some bad seeds as players, but it was all against the backdrop of the near immediate fall we then suffered.
I dont know what to say about Dabo in comparison. The guy is gifted. I'm not certain I understand the greatest focus or limits of his gifts, but it seems he is very able to evaluate and recruit talent. Obviously he is not flawless in these areas, but he has a great track record. One might say he is a player's coach, but I think he must be a coach's coach as well. Some say he is a better CEO than an X's and O's type and this makes sense, but is this a reasonable reflection of Bowden? I simply dont know. One thing is similar; both took programs that seemed beyond the reasonable hope of any claim for being elite and made them so.
I really didnt like the way it seemed Bowden got pushed out. I have a hard time agreeing that the game had so quickly and thoroughly passed him by, and it seemed he wasnt given a fair chance to put it back together before his wings were clipped.
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110%er [3956]
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Re: A thought about why I'm optimistic on Clemson football.
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Jun 9, 2025, 7:39 PM
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Bowden's last really good year was 2000. What followed were a few good years (nothing matching his earlier success) and several mediocre years. When you look at his overall record, it seemed like Bowden had done about all he was going to do at FSU. I'd say the same thing about Mark Richt at UGA.
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