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All-In [40656]
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I knew the extreme right would pivot
Aug 24, 2021, 9:38 AM
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At first it was, "well the vaccines aren't fully approved". Now folks I went to high school with are claiming that they will refuse to take the vaccine because it was developed utilizing "fetal tissue" from abortions.
A quick google search shows this to be inaccurate. While cell lines were developed from aborted fetus' from the 70's and 80's, no "fetal tissue" is involved with the development of the vaccines. These cell lines are over a thousand generations old at this point and have been utilized to create vaccines and medicine for the 7 billion people on this planet.
Why are these folks so unintelligent?
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All-TigerNet [11640]
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Extreme right?
Aug 24, 2021, 9:42 AM
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I guess that includes the NFL, the SEC, and the majority of black people?
If you look at the state-by-state breakdown of racial make-up and percentages who got vaccinated, it's not white people who are under-vaccinated.
But it's a new day, so you can lump in black and hispanic populations with the 'extreme right.'
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All-In [40656]
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Post had nothing to do with race
Aug 24, 2021, 9:44 AM
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Swing and a miss. Had everything to do with anti-vaxxers on the right. I even did you a favor and said who my post was about. Expecting reading comprehension appears to be asking for too much.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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They just don't want it...Why are so many of y'all that
Aug 24, 2021, 9:53 AM
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obsessed over it? It's pretty clear they're shifting the goal post, but at the end of the day a lot of folks just don't trust big pharma or govt. Make fun of them if you want, but it's not like those entities have spotless track records...Particularly when you factor in the religious like zeal around the vaccines. It reminds me of Ryanadidas post about his wife, seems like many just can't stand others aren't 'following the rules'.
Anecdotally, most of the people I know/work with who are getting COVID have been vaxxed. Most of those folks say no booster for them, so I am excited to welcome them with open arms into the "uneducated, selfish idiot" crowd.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: They just don't want it...Why are so many of y'all that
Aug 24, 2021, 9:57 AM
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Are you getting it now that it's been FDA approved?
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Nope, we're about 1 year into my 3 year minimum***
Aug 24, 2021, 10:05 AM
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Nope, we're about 1 year into my 3 year minimum***
Aug 24, 2021, 10:08 AM
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Is there anything that would push you towards getting it? People close to you getting sick/passing away, job requiring it, required to fly, anything like that?
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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With almost 5 billion doses administered, how many billions
Aug 24, 2021, 10:18 AM
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more will it take to convince the vaccine hesitant?
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Hall of Famer [21940]
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I'll chime in
Aug 24, 2021, 10:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: Nope, we're about 1 year into my 3 year minimum*** ] |
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b/c I've shared Lakebum's sentiment based on what I've seen in other discussions.
I'd have to succumb to the coercion if I have to show proof of a Covid-19 shot to fly. My job won't require it - some customers have tried but I got around it.
I'm not going to be very happy if I'm forced to take it prior to when I feel comfortable. As the kids say these days, I'll undoubtedly be triggered.
But I guess in this day and age, we kneel at the feet of our government overlords who only do what is in the best interest of us down here rowing the boat, in the name of $cience.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: I'll chime in
Aug 24, 2021, 10:21 AM
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Is there anything in particular that makes you hesitant, or is it sort of a "fear of the unknown" potential long-term consequences type issue?
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Hall of Famer [21940]
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Doesn't appear to mitigate any risk for me
Aug 24, 2021, 10:37 AM
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based on my age group, with no comorbidities, the chances of me having complications from covid are very low. When diving into the data for my age group, and looking at % of complications with pre-existing conditions, the numbers become even lower. I believe something around 1300 deaths out of 45M in my age group.
I had a pretty bad case of Covid in Q1 of 2020. I had some weird heart palpatation type #### going on Q4 of 2020. Went to the ER, matter of fact. Got checked out, everything's fine, whatever. Is it related, idk. Doc said I'm good. I would like to get an anti-body test to see if I have anti-bodies (not that it'd work for the blackshirts).
Now studies are coming out showing younger males are at higher risk for heart issues coming out of the mRNA vaccine. No thanks.
Very, very tough to find hard data on reactions. I did some data mining in VAERS database, about a month ago, and found ~22,560 lines in the DB with mycrocarditis or pericarditis. I limited my searches to these b/c well that's all I really know.
So 22k out of 150M vs 1300 out of 45M. I'm riding w/ the 1300 out of 45M.
Then there's the whole lack of trust, fear of the unknown piece. I don't trust health officials, who as of today, are saying if everyone gets vaccinated we'll have control of the virus going into 2022. That's provably false.
I don't trust the government agency just approving the shot at the speed they did (is this unprecendented?) that - at a high level - appears to be more politically motivated than health driven. I for #### sure don't trust government working with the private sector to shoe horn people into making a decision that may not be a one size fits all for them.
I also don't trust the media. At all. There's zero transparency on what is going on. We clearly have no idea if this will work, we think we know, but we don't know. We can't prove it. Anyone who says they can are either lying to you or aren't intelligent enough to have this conversation. Censoring people asking genuine questions - like a lot of the ones I ####### have - has turned me away more than anything.
I think these shots are good solutions for a section of the population. I don't think it's a one size fits all. I have hope they continue to work, but I moreso hope we can identify a viable viral treatment b/c these shots are slipping in their effectiveness.
Oh yeah - I'm for #### sure not taking one of these every 8 months. I've never had a flu shot. Never gotten the flu.
Lastly - if the vaccine prevented me from spreading the virus to my upcoming child, I'd get it. And that was actually my plan. That ship has sailed, so I'd rather play it safe (avoid concerts, games, whatever) for some time to see how this all shakes out. I live on a lake, out of the city, and have a new born on the way. So I'm not really planning on going anywhere and we're being strict on who can visit. Everyone gets a covid test, vaxx or not.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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That about covers it for me, as well.***
Aug 24, 2021, 10:43 AM
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Doesn't appear to mitigate any risk for me
Aug 24, 2021, 10:51 AM
[ in reply to Doesn't appear to mitigate any risk for me ] |
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Do you have a primary care doctor? If he/she recommended you take it, would that supersede your aforementioned concerns about institutions like media and government agencies?
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Hall of Famer [21940]
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I just got a physical
Aug 24, 2021, 11:45 AM
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so I guess that counts? We talked about it. He said the policy is to recommend it for anyone who is eligible. He asked if I wanted one while I was there, and said I'd like to wait. I told him about me going to the ER for my heart freaking me out, and that I had concerns. He said I was pretty low risk for complications so had no issue with me waiting.
To answer your question though, yes, I'd listen to my doctor. I'd also question my doctor if he recommended something, just like my customers question me when I recommend which golf club they want  .
I've never challenged a doctor on a recommendation and been disappointed with the answer, including my wife's OB. Granted, I've never really had any crazy procedures, but 99 times out of 100, you guys seem to have plenty of ####### logic behind what you're saying.
I said my issue is with health officials, not doctors, for the record. BIG, BIG difference.
I had a great conversation with our pediatrician on all the new vaccines for kids. Not against it at all, but it's kind of wild to look at how many are around now versus when I was a kid, right? So I asked what's up with that?
Walked through each and every one of them, giving pros and cons, risks and benefits to each and plenty of reading material. Very acute reasoning as to what has changed and why, what is new and what isn't. It was bad ###, and I learned a lot.
This level of transparency nor history is available for this covid shot situation, which is a red flag.
Even more of a red flag when I get labeled as a science denier by a school bus driver for having questions.
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All-In [46825]
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I didn't realize a golf club salesman knows more about
Aug 24, 2021, 10:22 AM
[ in reply to I'll chime in ] |
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science than scientists
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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I have service techs refusing to work in places
Aug 24, 2021, 10:40 AM
[ in reply to I'll chime in ] |
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that want to require the vaccine. They just won't go, it's their line in the sand. Our economy is getting kilt by labor shortages, and a vaccine mandate is going to exacerbate that. Where that leads is anyones guess. It might not be pretty though.
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Oculus Spirit [97756]
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Wait until schools require them
Aug 24, 2021, 12:11 PM
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They require all kinds of FDA approved vaccines for kids to attend. I am forced to reveal the vaccine status of all our children so they can attend school. If they don't have them, they can't attend. Going to be some interesting "religious" objections.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Not without more long term data
Aug 24, 2021, 10:55 AM
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Have any of them had poor outcomes after contracting it?
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Just a loss of taste and smell. Guy I worked with yesterday
Aug 24, 2021, 11:03 AM
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hasn't gotten his smell back in almost month now. He had his second Phizer vaccine back in May. My wife's first cousin got the Moderna vaccine and had to be hospitalized for fluid around his heart. He's a non-fatty too.
Obviously anecdotal, but I hear many say there will be no booster for them.
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All-In [40940]
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2nd covid vac shot put my wife in the hospital she
Aug 24, 2021, 11:23 AM
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says no booster for her. Covid didn't put me in the hospital but I'll still get a booster in a few months. Maybe the vaccine kept me out of the hospital maybe it didn't but I'm taking my chances with vaccines.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Reasonable behavior all the way around. If everyone took
Aug 24, 2021, 11:32 AM
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that kind of stance we'd probably see people much more willing to get vaccinated.
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All-In [40656]
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Because life would be somewhat back to normal for those
Aug 24, 2021, 10:11 AM
[ in reply to They just don't want it...Why are so many of y'all that ] |
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that follow the "rules" and societal norms. That's why. Hospitals are full across the country people that need help for other issues are being turned away because there is nowhere for them to go.
Those that are complying (used for lack of better word) with the accepted reality that vaccines help to save lives are still getting the short end of the proverbial stick because a individuals are choosing not to get the vaccine for a variety of (mostly selfish, ignorant, selfish) reasons.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Because life would be somewhat back to normal for those
Aug 24, 2021, 10:14 AM
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My small community hospital has 48 COVID inpatients, 18 in the ICU, 8 ventilated. 3 of them are vaccinated, and they're all in floor beds.
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All-In [46825]
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For the mentally compromised, he means that the
Aug 24, 2021, 10:16 AM
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3 COVID patients are not in ICU or on vents. They are in normal rooms.
Come on doc you have to dumb it down for these idiots
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Oculus Spirit [79260]
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Did the dood with teh spaghetti squash in his wreckedhim
Aug 24, 2021, 10:28 AM
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No, just lonely and brave.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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Lack of vaccinations.
Aug 24, 2021, 10:56 AM
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That is the consensus.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: When we talk about overwhelming hospitals, is that more a
Aug 24, 2021, 10:57 AM
[ in reply to When we talk about overwhelming hospitals, is that more a ] |
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Staffing is fine, there is no physical space. Patients are boarding in ER's, OR recovery rooms, hallways, or are diverted or simply sent home.
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Oculus Spirit [79260]
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Increase in demand
Aug 24, 2021, 10:59 AM
[ in reply to When we talk about overwhelming hospitals, is that more a ] |
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there are more people in the ER waiting. Wife said she's never seen this many in her life. She does patient flow and has other hospitals calling for beds available as well as ambulances. From other counties and states. They're turning them away, they have no room. Before COVID they were almost at capacity already, but then you take away about a quarter or more of their available beds and increase the demand by about 50% and you get into the situation we're in right now.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Makes me wonder how many actually need to be there
Aug 24, 2021, 11:06 AM
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Seems like the ER has been a catch all for every ailment known to man for awhile now.
Really surprised to hear there aren't staffing shortages, seems like every other industry is struggling with that aspect.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Makes me wonder how many actually need to be there
Aug 24, 2021, 11:26 AM
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The bottom line is 95% of the patients in my hospital with COVID are unvaccinated. My little corner of SC isn't unique either, this is the experience everywhere best I can tell. There are people of all ages being affected by delta. My strong, strong recommendation to everyone who can take it would be to get vaccinated.
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Oculus Spirit [97756]
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You can stack homeless drunks 4 deep in an ER
Aug 24, 2021, 5:57 PM
[ in reply to Makes me wonder how many actually need to be there ] |
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The shortage is in hospital beds, ICU beds, and nurses and doctors to treat those people. Admitted patients. And they won't admit you for covid unless you are low on oxygen.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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No it wouldn't, you're going to have to accept that
Aug 24, 2021, 10:29 AM
[ in reply to Because life would be somewhat back to normal for those ] |
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COVID is here to stay, we aren't going back to 2019, I'm sorry. I don't think there's some nefarious intent behind the vaccines, but I question their legit effectiveness..Particularly with the emergence of new variants. And you can't blame the variants strictly on the unvaccinated, because the vaccinated are still getting and spreading COVID.
You're taking part in an elementary school-esque coercion tactic where those in authority positions punish everyone in an effort to coerce a certain segment into compliance. That kind of tactic rarely works out well for anyone in the end. Your use of adjectives like selfish, ignorant, etc. are indicative of an emotional response, not a rational one.
Y'all may end up being right about everything, or maybe I will be. We don't really know yet. But the more hostility y'all throw at people wary of the vaccine, the opposite effect it's going to have.
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All-In [46825]
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Small pox was eradicated by a vaccine
Aug 24, 2021, 10:31 AM
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polio was too.
It's possible.
It's not possible when a significant subsection refuses to do what is necessary to get past it because of muh freedom
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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This isn't small pox or polio, either.
Aug 24, 2021, 10:34 AM
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What was it I read, like 40% of deer have covid antibodies? And you can still get COVID with the vaccine? It's not going away, I'm sorry.
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All-In [46825]
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How is it not like small pox or polio?***
Aug 24, 2021, 10:35 AM
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All-In [40940]
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completely different types of viruses
Aug 24, 2021, 10:41 AM
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like cancer all viruses are not the same. Covid is here to stay.
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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Yeah. Some people are going to lose their objectivity
Aug 24, 2021, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to No it wouldn't, you're going to have to accept that ] |
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and react emotionally to science and peer pressure to get the vaccine. Southerners are especially stubborn throughout history to that sort of pressure.
Not sure there is an effective way to deal with those people. Darwinism?
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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I genuinely think many of you believe that if the
Aug 24, 2021, 10:48 AM
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unvaccinated just die off or something the rest of you can go back to your normal lives. It's an incredible delusion.
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All-In [46825]
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At this point that seems like the only option***
Aug 24, 2021, 10:48 AM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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It does to you, because you're a f*cking idiot.***
Aug 24, 2021, 10:50 AM
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All-In [46825]
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Got my shot so I won't be the one dying.
Aug 24, 2021, 10:51 AM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Are you going to get the booster every 6-8 months
Aug 24, 2021, 10:53 AM
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in perpetuity?
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All-In [46825]
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If it keeps me from being back in that ER room
Aug 24, 2021, 10:56 AM
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in and out of consciousness wondering if that was the last time I'll see my wife and kids
I for one am not a stubborn dumb ### who would rather leave my wife a widow and my children without a father because I got fooled by the tv.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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You should probably think about not drinking liquor to the
Aug 24, 2021, 10:59 AM
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point of being drunk every night, in that case. That would do a lot more for your longevity than the COVID vaccine.
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All-In [46825]
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Yes, because that's the same thing
Aug 24, 2021, 11:03 AM
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alcohol issues when I'm 60 vs. almost being put on a vent and never coming off when I'm 32.
Like I've told you before, I thought just like you. I'm young, in relatively good shape, It won't be that bad for me. I really hope you never get it and went through what I went through. And I didn't go through what some people are going through.
I just can't be so selfish that I would rather my family watch me die just so I can stick it to the libs.
But you do you.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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A lot of people die in their 30's from drinking too much
Aug 24, 2021, 11:08 AM
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I am going to do me, but I will say some of y'all may want to tone back the rhetoric. Because all of the hoping unvaccinated people lose their jobs, die off, etc. is quite frankly pissing a lot of people off.
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All-In [46825]
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Re: A lot of people die in their 30's from drinking too much
Aug 24, 2021, 11:12 AM
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All-In [40656]
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Yes you will, because they're going to come take your nice
Aug 24, 2021, 11:17 AM
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things while you cower in the corner. Ever heard the ole saying, "There are only 9 meals between mankind and anarchy"?
When people start losing their livelihoods over this and people like y'all are mocking them, lakebum gonna be posted up like:
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All-In [40656]
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We got a nice taste of your "anarchy"
Aug 24, 2021, 11:24 AM
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on January 6th. Couldn't even secure one building. I'm not all too worried about a few country boys rising up against big pharma.
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All-In [46825]
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Better watch out or Gravy Force will try to overtake the
Aug 24, 2021, 11:26 AM
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McDonald's
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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And there's your disconnect. You're envisioning
Aug 24, 2021, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to We got a nice taste of your "anarchy" ] |
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a bunch of Q-Anon shamans when in reality it will be Charlie from 3 doors down who was always a nice dude but for whatever reason didn't want the vaccine and lost his job because of it. Now he's burned through his savings with 3 kids to feed and he's put up with you low key mocking him, but now dem babies need to eat and he also senses you're a bit of a poosay so a man gotta do what a man gotta do.
This is the path we are racing down, hope everyone's excited!
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Oculus Spirit [79260]
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I'll politely tell Charlie that this is the consequence of
Aug 24, 2021, 11:37 AM
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his own actions and against medical expert's recommendations. If he doesn't like that and wants to get hostile, I'll gladly punch him in the nose. Spreading this #### around when there's a vaccine out for him, but not for my 3 kids under the age of 8, he can squarely go #### himself.
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All-In [40656]
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Oh but it is. Granted, it isn't all covid related
Aug 24, 2021, 11:41 AM
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I hope we all enjoy living in a low trust society, cause that's where we're heading and this COVID bulllshit is cranking that up to 11.
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All-In [46825]
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All-In [40656]
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Never know if that +1 is in the barrel or not
Aug 24, 2021, 11:45 AM
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Either way, he's probably got the heat shield on for that extra ribbing.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Didn't you recently have a post about getting a shotgun or
Aug 24, 2021, 11:48 AM
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something for self defense? Something spook you?
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All-In [40656]
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I did recently get a shotgun, in June of last year
Aug 24, 2021, 1:11 PM
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Can never be prepared enough. I certainly did not get it to shoot my unvaxxed neighbor though, if thats what you're insinuating.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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I dunno, you might. A lot of y'all seem one step away
Aug 24, 2021, 2:24 PM
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mentally from looking at unvaccinated people like you would somebody breaking into your house. Of course, this is while simultaneously hoping the unvaccinated person loses their career, possibly dies, etc. all because of this delusion that life can go back to 'normal', aka pre 2020. It's a recipe for violence, but I guess you've prepared for that.
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Oculus Spirit [79260]
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LOOK HOW FAR DOWN THIS THIS IS STRETCH NOW. HA HA HAHA TWSS***
Aug 24, 2021, 2:51 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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All-In [40656]
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Being that I am a grown adult that is not scared of needles
Aug 24, 2021, 11:03 AM
[ in reply to Are you going to get the booster every 6-8 months ] |
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And can sacrifice a few minutes once every few months, yes, I will get said booster whenever it is needed. Just like I do with tetanus and flu boosters.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Re: Being that I am a grown adult that is not scared of needles
Aug 24, 2021, 11:18 AM
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All-In [44055]
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The statistics for COVID vaccination back this up.
Aug 24, 2021, 1:41 PM
[ in reply to Yeah. Some people are going to lose their objectivity ] |
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The least vaccinated states, by percentage of population:
West Virginia 39.5%
Arkansas 40%
Louisiana 40%
Georgia 40.4%
Tennessee 40.9%
North Dakota 41.2%
South Carolina 42.4%
Oklahoma 42.5%
Missouri 44.2%
Montana 45.4%
Almost all of these are southern states.
Conversely, here are the ten most vaccinated states, by percentage of population:
Vermont 68%
Massachusetts 65.4%
Connecticut 65.1%
Maine 65.1%
Rhode Island 63.8%
Maryland 60.7%
New Jersey 60.5%
Washington 59.5%
New Hampshire 59.3%
New York 59.2%
Zero southern states here.
That stubborn streak is killing people. It's sad to see.
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CU Medallion [60043]
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All-In [46825]
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Why are you stealing my posts?
Aug 24, 2021, 9:56 AM
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I got the d!ldo saleswoman now ranting about how she still ain't taking it because it got approved too fast.
She's +350 and smokes.
GOOD LUCK DUMB ###!
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: I knew the extreme right would pivot
Aug 24, 2021, 10:21 AM
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Regeneron utilized immortalized cells from an aborted fetus to develop it's Covid treatments as well.
So best not use that either....
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110%er [5072]
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Re: I knew the extreme right would pivot
Aug 24, 2021, 10:53 AM
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It's like the anti-vaxxers from being Covid was a thing. I'm talking about the ones against vaccines for children who think those cause autism or whatever. You'd see those same types pulling out "facts" like these to make their points and any point someone would make to counter them would be met with either "big pharma paid for that study" or "do your own research."
At least there were so few of those running around that you could largely ignore them, but now we're here with millions of people thinking this way.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: I knew the extreme right would pivot
Aug 24, 2021, 11:02 AM
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And for the record. I may disagree with the decision of many to not get the vaccine, but I can at least respect being hesitant over the unknown and fear of future complications with the vaccine. What I can't understand though is buying into false information about what's in the vaccine or other similar false information that can easily be verified with a little searching.
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All-In [44055]
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The comparison to pediatric vaccines isn't really accurate.
Aug 24, 2021, 3:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: I knew the extreme right would pivot ] |
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The current recommended schedule for pediatric vaccines has changed significantly over the last few decades, and has never been studied in its entirety.
Studying one vaccine in isolation and approving it for use is important, but failing to study it in context of all of the other vaccines as a whole is concerning.
Plus, any treatment should be weighed in terms of potential benefit versus potential risk. COVID has killed millions of people throughout the world. Conversely, how many people has chicken pox killed? How many kids are likely to get hepatitis B (typically transmitted through sex or IV drug use)?
I'm not arguing against vaccines, but if a parent chooses to hold off on a few vaccines for their kids, or space them out so their child isn't getting multiple vaccines at once, I support that 100%.
Kids don't have fully developed brains and immune systems for years. Adults (who we are discussing here in relation to the COVID vaccine) do. Huge difference.
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Trainer [27]
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All-In [44055]
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That is a very misleading headline/article.
Aug 24, 2021, 3:45 PM
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The article states:
"The study found vaccinated individuals carry 251 times the load of COVID-19 viruses in their nostrils compared to the unvaccinated."
The actual study abstract states:
"Viral loads of breakthrough Delta variant infection cases were 251 times higher than those of cases infected with old strains detected between March-April 2020."
Research comparing the delta variant viral loads in vaccinated people with breakthrough infection versus unvaccinated people has shown that the levels are similar (not 251 times higher in vaccinated people):
https://www.ndm.ox.ac.uk/files/coronavirus/covid-19-infection-survey/finalfinalcombinedve20210816.pdf
Remember, these were vaccinated people with breakthrough infection. It doesn't account for the many vaccinated people who don't get COVID at all (estimated to be 50-70% of those who are vaccinated). It also doesn't account for the ultimate effects of COVID-19 delta variant in those who are vaccinated versus those who are not. Research has overwhelmingly shown that the vaccine significantly reduces the risk of severe COVID requiring hospitalization/ICU and death from COVID.
With that said, what was the point of your post?
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