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Expert [1376]
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Electing to play defense first...
Oct 15, 2014, 5:32 PM
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I assume everyone knows that when you win a coin toss you can elect to defer?
Most often that's exactly what teams do.
"...teams have increasingly chosen to defer after winning the coin toss, with the percentages climbing to 65 percent this year from 38 percent in 2008.
"Of the 10 games played this postseason, eight teams winning the kickoff have deferred. The two clubs that won the coin toss and chose to receive the opening kickoff -- the Indianapolis Colts against the New England Patriots and Kansas City Chiefs against the Colts -- both lost."
I assume everyone knows that deferring means you give the other team the choice to either kick or receive to start the game. The issue here seems to be a few folks on this site who don't know that if the other team chooses to kick to start the game, then they will kick to start half as well. That's akin to losing a possession. Although it has been done, that's not really a sound strategy.
"Saturday night got off to a weird start for the Texas Longhorns when a slip in managing the coin toss resulted in UCLA getting to receive the football first in both halves. Texas captain Desmond Jackson inexplicably told the ref Texas wanted to kick off to start the game, after UCLA had won the coin flip and deferred to the second half. This resulted in Texas having to kick off to the Bruins at the start of the first and second half...choosing to play defense second rather than the more traditional option of playing defense first."
Soooo, with that said I assume all can agree that when you defer you are essentially forcing the other team to receive the ball. That means you are putting your defense on the field first. In fact, teams with strong defenses often choose to play defense first for that very reason. Has anyone noticed Dabo has always chsoe to receive until this year where he's deferring more? That's to get our defense on the field first. Its a conscious decision. Or should I say "conscience" for IB12?
Anywho, it took all of 0.49 seconds to find 42,000,000 hits...
"A more defensive-minded coach typically will defer,” Billick said.
"It’s always important to get a fast start. We won the coin toss, deferred and elected to play defense first. That didn’t work out as good, but we held them to a field goal. We like our defense out there, and we like to have a good stop."
"Easthampton elected to play defense first."
"BYU won the toss and elected to play defense first"
"it’s advantageous to win the toss, play defense first.."
"On the two road games this year, had we won the toss at Florida or Penn State, we would have played defense first," Saban said
"We chose to defer (the kickoff); wanted our defense to play first."
"Ravens Coach John Harbaugh, whose team plays the Chiefs on Sunday ... deferring the opening coin toss to put his defense on the field first."
"we might see a coach defer and play defense first"
" Marshall has won the toss in all four games and Holliday has elected to defer all four times. That means he prefers to put his stingy defense on the field first.."
Not a darn thing wrong with saying some teams elect to play defense first. Because they do, more often than not.
What is it some of you are having such a difficult time with?
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CU Medallion [58448]
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I don't know . . .
Oct 15, 2014, 6:43 PM
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Almost always, but not necessarily. [1]
Posted: Oct 1, 2014 5:31 PM
Reply
The winner of the toss can:
1. Choose to kick or receive.
OR
2. Choose which goal to defend.
OR
3. Defer the choice to the second half.
The team that loses the toss or defers gets the remaining choice.
So, it is possible for a team, as Texas did recently, to win the toss, choose to kick off to start the game, then have to kick off again to start the second half when the other team chooses to receive at that time.
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=15900634
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Expert [1376]
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Smiling, point is...
Oct 15, 2014, 11:13 PM
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Sometimes defenses elect to play defense first.
That is a 100% correct statement. It makes no sense why a semi-intelligent grown man would have such a hard time not getting that.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Nobody's debating that....
Oct 15, 2014, 11:44 PM
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They are debating this...
"Deferring is the same as electing to play defense first"
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Expert [1376]
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Deferring is the same as electing to play defense first
Oct 16, 2014, 12:07 AM
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..unless the other team is retarded. Which has also happened but in extremely rare cases.
Again, did you see these quotes?
"A more defensive-minded coach typically will defer,” Billick said.
"It’s always important to get a fast start. We won the coin toss, deferred and elected to play defense first. That didn’t work out as good, but we held them to a field goal. We like our defense out there, and we like to have a good stop."
"Easthampton elected to play defense first."
"BYU won the toss and elected to play defense first"
"it’s advantageous to win the toss, play defense first.."
"On the two road games this year, had we won the toss at Florida or Penn State, we would have played defense first," Saban said
"We chose to defer (the kickoff); wanted our defense to play first."
"Ravens Coach John Harbaugh, whose team plays the Chiefs on Sunday ... deferring the opening coin toss to put his defense on the field first."
"we might see a coach defer and play defense first"
" Marshall has won the toss in all four games and Holliday has elected to defer all four times. That means he prefers to put his stingy defense on the field first.."
Along the same lines did you see, in the same subject post,
I assume everyone knows that deferring means you give the other team the choice to either kick or receive to start the game. The issue here seems to be a few folks on this site who don't know that if the other team chooses to kick to start the game, then they will kick to start half as well. That's akin to losing a possession. Although it has been done, that's not really a sound strategy.
"Saturday night got off to a weird start for the Texas Longhorns when a slip in managing the coin toss resulted in UCLA getting to receive the football first in both halves. Texas captain Desmond Jackson inexplicably told the ref Texas wanted to kick off to start the game, after UCLA had won the coin flip and deferred to the second half. This resulted in Texas having to kick off to the Bruins at the start of the first and second half...choosing to play defense second rather than the more traditional option of playing defense first."
I think you're missing something here bud.
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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I've gotta say, it's taken over a year but you've finally
Oct 16, 2014, 12:11 AM
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realized the whole point of the original thread...
Here you said:
"I assume everyone knows that deferring means you give the other team the choice to either kick or receive to start the game. The issue here seems to be a few folks on this site who don't know that if the other team chooses to kick to start the game, then they will kick to start half as well. That's akin to losing a possession. Although it has been done, that's not really a sound strategy."
What's funny is you originally argued teams intentionally did that. And even funnier saying that people on the site didn't know this.
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Expert [1376]
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No, it's taken you until right now to realize you were wrong
Oct 16, 2014, 12:14 AM
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all along. I never once insinuated that teams use their deferred choice to play defense, although sometimes they do that too. Again, no matter how weakly try to slice it, sometimes teams elect to play defense first.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Nope, still waiting on that missing piece of info...
Oct 16, 2014, 12:17 AM
[ in reply to Deferring is the same as electing to play defense first ] |
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tell ya what...I'm gonna make this easy. You don't even have to type anything out but the correct multiple choice. This will aid in our communication...
Is deferring the same as electing to choose defense first?
A)Yes
B)No
C)I don't know
Is electing to choose defense first the same as deferring?
A)Yes
B)No
C)I don't know
Is the above questions the EXACT same, just reversed?
A)Yes
B)No
C)I don't know
If I tell an official, "I elect to play defense first," will I get the option to choose whether I get the ball the second half?
A)Yes
B)No
C)I don't know
If deferring is synonymous with electing to play defense first, I can use the terms interchangeably without confusion?
A)Yes
B)No
C)I don't know
FIRE AWAY SPORT!
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Expert [1376]
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Answers...
Oct 16, 2014, 12:27 AM
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Is deferring the same as electing to choose defense first?
A)Yes
B)No
C)I don't know
My choice is D) ALMOST EVERY SINGLE TIME. So much so that it can be stated as, deferring is the same as electing to play defense first. If you want to insert the word essentially that's fine. I have done exactly that several times, but in reality it's pretty much a given that deferring is the same as electing to play defense first.
Read again:
A more defensive-minded coach typically will defer,” Billick said.
"It’s always important to get a fast start. We won the coin toss, deferred and elected to play defense first. That didn’t work out as good, but we held them to a field goal. We like our defense out there, and we like to have a good stop."
"Easthampton elected to play defense first."
"BYU won the toss and elected to play defense first"
"it’s advantageous to win the toss, play defense first.."
"On the two road games this year, had we won the toss at Florida or Penn State, we would have played defense first," Saban said
"We chose to defer (the kickoff); wanted our defense to play first."
"Ravens Coach John Harbaugh, whose team plays the Chiefs on Sunday ... deferring the opening coin toss to put his defense on the field first."
"we might see a coach defer and play defense first"
" Marshall has won the toss in all four games and Holliday has elected to defer all four times. That means he prefers to put his stingy defense on the field first.."
Is electing to choose defense first the same as deferring?
A)Yes
B)No
C)I don't know
The answer is B.
Is the above questions the EXACT same, just reversed?
A)Yes
B)No
C)I don't know
The answer in context is no. See "essentially" and "in reality it's pretty much a given that deferring is the same as electing to play defense first". Did you read all those quotes yet?
If I tell an official, "I elect to play defense first," will I get the option to choose whether I get the ball the second half?
A)Yes
B)No
C)I don't know
The answer is B.
If deferring is synonymous with electing to play defense first, I can use the terms interchangeably without confusion?
A)Yes
B)No
C)I don't know
The literal answer is no. The common answer is yes..because the other team choosing to kick off with the deferral is so rare. Hence the quotes. Here they are again, from a bunch of football coaches and stuff:
A more defensive-minded coach typically will defer,” Billick said.
"It’s always important to get a fast start. We won the coin toss, deferred and elected to play defense first. That didn’t work out as good, but we held them to a field goal. We like our defense out there, and we like to have a good stop."
"Easthampton elected to play defense first."
"BYU won the toss and elected to play defense first"
"it’s advantageous to win the toss, play defense first.."
"On the two road games this year, had we won the toss at Florida or Penn State, we would have played defense first," Saban said
"We chose to defer (the kickoff); wanted our defense to play first."
"Ravens Coach John Harbaugh, whose team plays the Chiefs on Sunday ... deferring the opening coin toss to put his defense on the field first."
"we might see a coach defer and play defense first"
" Marshall has won the toss in all four games and Holliday has elected to defer all four times. That means he prefers to put his stingy defense on the field first.."
Hopefully this helps.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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It does help, thank you for taking the time to answer!
Oct 16, 2014, 12:30 AM
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+1 for you good sir...
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Expert [1376]
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No problem bud. Thanks for being a man about it.***
Oct 16, 2014, 12:35 AM
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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You can pretend like you don't know what we're referring to
Oct 15, 2014, 7:51 PM
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all you want...it's kind of pathetically funny actually.
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All-In [38434]
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Re: You can pretend like you don't know what we're referring to
Oct 15, 2014, 9:32 PM
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Expert [1376]
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I'm not pretending anything. There was a post previously
Oct 15, 2014, 11:11 PM
[ in reply to You can pretend like you don't know what we're referring to ] |
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linked where a guy said something to the effect that teams can choose to play defense first. Seems that a spot on assessment:
"A more defensive-minded coach typically will defer,” Billick said.
"It’s always important to get a fast start. We won the coin toss, deferred and elected to play defense first. That didn’t work out as good, but we held them to a field goal. We like our defense out there, and we like to have a good stop."
"Easthampton elected to play defense first."
"BYU won the toss and elected to play defense first"
"it’s advantageous to win the toss, play defense first.."
"On the two road games this year, had we won the toss at Florida or Penn State, we would have played defense first," Saban said
"We chose to defer (the kickoff); wanted our defense to play first."
"Ravens Coach John Harbaugh, whose team plays the Chiefs on Sunday ... deferring the opening coin toss to put his defense on the field first."
"we might see a coach defer and play defense first"
"Marshall has won the toss in all four gamesand Holliday has elected to defer all four times. That means he prefers to put his stingy defense on the field first.."
Gonna have to try a little harder fella.
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Oculus Spirit [96873]
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Expert [1376]
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Man, Bob, you are one sharp cookie.
Oct 15, 2014, 11:05 PM
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That guy named deleted seemed to find similar results as I did. That's awesome, even though I didn't need his links to prove I was right. Maybe you can address the results instead of whatever you thought you were proving otherwise? That would be an adult kind of thing to do.
Deferring is the same as electing to play defense first, unless the other team is dumb enough to give you the ball to start both halves. Please try to focus on the task at hand. You can do it.
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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"that guy"...OMG PRICELESS
Oct 15, 2014, 11:18 PM
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Followed up with your last paragraph, which was the whole ####### point to begin with...
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Expert [1376]
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And yet...
Oct 15, 2014, 11:57 PM
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You're still dead wrong.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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The use of some weird math here...
Oct 15, 2014, 11:38 PM
[ in reply to Man, Bob, you are one sharp cookie. ] |
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If deferring = to playing defense first, THEN playing defense first = to deferring. Is this what your saying? They are interchangeable right, judging from the quote below?
"Deferring is the same as electing to play defense first"
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Expert [1376]
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"Deferring is the same as electing to play defense first"
Oct 15, 2014, 11:59 PM
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Well it is, unless the other team chooses to kick with their choice. In which case they chose to play defense first and again to start the second half.
No matter how you try to slice it, sometimes teams elect to play defense first.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Well let me slice it this way...
Oct 16, 2014, 12:01 AM
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Is electing to choose defense the same as deferring? I'm slicing it backwards...
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Expert [1376]
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No. But then again...
Oct 16, 2014, 12:15 AM
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Sometimes elect to play defense first.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Well next time I'm a team captain, I'm going to tell them
Oct 16, 2014, 12:23 AM
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that "I elect to play defense first," you know, since it's the same thing as choosing to defer. I better get to decide whether I get to kick or receive the second half Dr. Shane! Or I'm holding you personally responsible!
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Expert [1376]
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That's not the way it works.
Oct 16, 2014, 12:35 AM
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But then again, i think you see that now.
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Well, you are not "electing" to play defense first - you...
Oct 15, 2014, 10:07 PM
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are hoping the other team pulls a Texas and you get the play offense at the start of each half. Of course, if the other team pulls a Texas, you can choose to play defense in the second half. In that case you do "elect" to play defense!
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Expert [1376]
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You may have missed these quotes...
Oct 15, 2014, 11:02 PM
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"A more defensive-minded coach typically will defer,” Billick said.
"It’s always important to get a fast start. We won the coin toss, deferred and elected to play defense first. That didn’t work out as good, but we held them to a field goal. We like our defense out there, and we like to have a good stop."
"Easthampton elected to play defense first."
"BYU won the toss and elected to play defense first"
"it’s advantageous to win the toss, play defense first.."
"On the two road games this year, had we won the toss at Florida or Penn State, we would have played defense first," Saban said
"We chose to defer (the kickoff); wanted our defense to play first."
"Ravens Coach John Harbaugh, whose team plays the Chiefs on Sunday ... deferring the opening coin toss to put his defense on the field first."
"we might see a coach defer and play defense first"
" Marshall has won the toss in all four games and Holliday has elected to defer all four times. That means he prefers to put his stingy defense on the field first.."
Maybe you can explain in more detail how deferring is not widely known as "electing" to play defense first? That dumbarse Nick Saban, for example, seems to think that's exactly what it (deferring) is. Please tell me what you're not getting, and I will gladly help.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Go to an official at the start of the game, tell them you
Oct 15, 2014, 11:30 PM
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would like to elect to play defense, but DON'T FOR THE LOVE OF GOD say defer. He, after all, should clearly know you want to defer right....RIGHT? Then tell me if you get the same results as someone who would have said we'd like to DEFER. I'm betting you won't.
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Expert [1376]
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That's not the point, obviously.
Oct 15, 2014, 11:56 PM
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The point is, sometimes teams elect to play defense via deferring and the other team chooses to receive. Or in some retarded cases the team who loses the toss and gains the right to choose, sometimes they elect to play defense too. No matter how you slice it, you're electing to play defense first.
For crying out loud, READ:
"A more defensive-minded coach typically will defer,” Billick said.
"It’s always important to get a fast start. We won the coin toss, deferred and elected to play defense first. That didn’t work out as good, but we held them to a field goal. We like our defense out there, and we like to have a good stop."
"Easthampton elected to play defense first."
"BYU won the toss and elected to play defense first"
"it’s advantageous to win the toss, play defense first.."
"On the two road games this year, had we won the toss at Florida or Penn State, we would have played defense first," Saban said
"We chose to defer (the kickoff); wanted our defense to play first."
"Ravens Coach John Harbaugh, whose team plays the Chiefs on Sunday ... deferring the opening coin toss to put his defense on the field first."
"we might see a coach defer and play defense first"
" Marshall has won the toss in all four games and Holliday has elected to defer all four times. That means he prefers to put his stingy defense on the field first.."
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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How is that not the point when you say, and it's quoted
Oct 15, 2014, 11:59 PM
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just for you... "Deferring is the same as electing to play defense first"
How can they be the same....but they aren't really... COME ON MAN! Your confusing yourself!
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Expert [1376]
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There are several cases where I said "essentially" and the
Oct 16, 2014, 12:19 AM
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like.
Please read this, all of this, once and for all:
A more defensive-minded coach typically will defer,” Billick said.
"It’s always important to get a fast start. We won the coin toss, deferred and elected to play defense first. That didn’t work out as good, but we held them to a field goal. We like our defense out there, and we like to have a good stop."
"Easthampton elected to play defense first."
"BYU won the toss and elected to play defense first"
"it’s advantageous to win the toss, play defense first.."
"On the two road games this year, had we won the toss at Florida or Penn State, we would have played defense first," Saban said
"We chose to defer (the kickoff); wanted our defense to play first."
"Ravens Coach John Harbaugh, whose team plays the Chiefs on Sunday ... deferring the opening coin toss to put his defense on the field first."
"we might see a coach defer and play defense first"
" Marshall has won the toss in all four games and Holliday has elected to defer all four times. That means he prefers to put his stingy defense on the field first.."
The original statement, the one that a few hardheads are having trouble with is, "sometimes defenses elect to play defense first". In fact, there was a percentage I posted somewhere which cites that most teams defer..so they can play defense first.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I like that you are scrappy and don't hesitate to mop the
Oct 15, 2014, 11:27 PM
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floor with coots.
But don't defend that Dr. Nakamats (who I still think is you, you devil you) and [his] misunderstanding of the rules.
You absolutely can choose to play defense first by CHOOSING to defer as most opponents will elect to receive the ball. But that is not the same as saying 'We choose defense,' of course. That would result in to very different scenarios.
It was clear that Nakamats misunderstood the rules by presenting ONLY those two options (receive or play defense first). Even if he somehow did understand that there was a third option, he did not make that clear and the onus is on him to do so...
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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Shane is Dr. Nakamats, or sorry "that guy named deleted"
Oct 15, 2014, 11:30 PM
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and no matter what you tell him, you are incorrect. Don't try to tell him the truth, that this was about a specific scenario that UNC goofed on where they CHOSE DEFENSE, not deferring.
Even in that thread where it was thoroughly explained, he still couldn't understand, and will continue the same diatribe you see in this thread.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I enjoy trying to explain the same thing 99 different
Oct 15, 2014, 11:34 PM
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ways....all explanations lead to the same conclusion.
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Expert [1376]
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The conclusion is this...
Oct 15, 2014, 11:53 PM
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Sometimes teams elect to play defense first, whether it be the smart way or the dumb way.
Care to try again?
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I'm trying, but you seem to dodge my other replies where
Oct 15, 2014, 11:55 PM
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I explain things...
Keep looking buddy 
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Expert [1376]
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Well, at least you finally got it. Thanks man.***
Oct 16, 2014, 12:37 AM
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Expert [1376]
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Are you making sense to yourself?
Oct 15, 2014, 11:52 PM
[ in reply to Shane is Dr. Nakamats, or sorry "that guy named deleted" ] |
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Deferring almost always equals choosing to play defense first. I assume you read the quotes supporting that. UNC goofed, no doubt, but that has been addressed as well. It's not the same thing even thought the goof was the same as electing to play defense first.
The point remains, sometimes teams elect to pay defense first. What do you feel like you've explained to counter that fact?
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Expert [1376]
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I don't care who said something similar to "sometimes teams
Oct 15, 2014, 11:48 PM
[ in reply to I like that you are scrappy and don't hesitate to mop the ] |
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elect to play defense first". It's really immaterial. Fact remains, sometimes teams elect to play defense first. Electing to play defense first is absolutely synonymous with choosing to play defense first. Choosing = electing. Deferring equals electing to play defense first, equals choosing to play defense first. It's bizarre how some guys can't get it.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I know, it's really bizarre...mind bottling some on here
Oct 15, 2014, 11:55 PM
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would say.
So we're clear...I can go to the ref at a coin toss and say "I elect to play defense first," and I will STILL get to decide whether I want the ball the second half? Asking for a bunch of other t-netters...
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I know, it's really bizarre...mind bottling some on here
Oct 16, 2014, 12:07 AM
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Just play along. We're going to choose to play defense first this weekend.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I say we play D every series
Oct 16, 2014, 12:09 AM
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As soon as we get the ball, punt on first down...give our D and special teams a chance to score.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I say we play D every series
Oct 16, 2014, 12:20 AM
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Agreed. We can't lose this way.
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Expert [1376]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I think we deferred against Louisville, just for example.
Oct 16, 2014, 12:43 AM
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Yes, I'm conscious. Does it not weigh on your conscience that one usage mistake (that I admitted) is all you have? Besides a $300/hr lawyer, that is.
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Expert [1376]
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No, that one moronic misuse is far from all I have...
Oct 16, 2014, 12:47 AM
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considering teams can and do elect to play defense first. Your earlier, misplaced "LMAO" about this subject was comical.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: No, that one moronic misuse is far from all I have...
Oct 16, 2014, 12:51 AM
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Honestly, do you see my trying to argue this topic at all? It's clickbait. I'm guilty of using the "are we playing defense first" hur hur card for discussion and ghey-bashing. Please don't get the impression that I'm keeping score or any way care about you or this topic at all. Don't take it personal. I argue with leadtiger, for Christ's sake.
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Expert [1376]
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Apparently you forgot...
Oct 16, 2014, 1:06 AM
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If I can show a quote from you, insinuating i was wrong about *sometimes teams elect to play defense first", (even included the "LMAO" fail), then will you agree to never post here again?
You just keep failing over and over. Have some respect for yourself man.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Apparently you forgot...
Oct 16, 2014, 1:15 AM
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No, I absolutely don't agree to that. I literally don't care enough about this topic to know what I've posted on it in the past. Probably mindless rambles like most of my other posts.
"Leave here and never post again"...lmao. As if you would know anything about that. And you think I take this place seriously.
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110%er [7297]
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Is there an option to play defense never.
Oct 15, 2014, 11:42 PM
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I sure wish our staff would tell our captains that if we win the toss that we elect not to play defense. Ever.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Have both offenses on the field at the same time...
Oct 15, 2014, 11:45 PM
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I think we have something...
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110%er [5249]
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Wouldn't choosing to kick be really "choosing defense"?
Oct 16, 2014, 12:47 AM
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Why couldn't team A win the toss, team A defers, and team B says "We want to kick"?
Team A starts with the ball, even with deferring.
If team A chose to kick, they would, in 100% of cases, be on defense to start the game, yes?
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Expert [1376]
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I believe that's true as well, however, you relinquish the
Oct 16, 2014, 12:51 AM
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second half choice to the other team, in which case they'll choose to receive and rob you of a possession. I don't think many teams have chosen to play defense to start both halves, but indeed it has happened before.
But too, you're right, that's yet another way of electing to play defense first
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110%er [5249]
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I guess I don't see it as 'Choosing' defense...
Oct 16, 2014, 12:55 AM
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since team A actually doesn't choose anything. They give up their choice for one at halftime.
Team B, in my scenario, forced them into kicking.
If Team A said "We want to kick", that is their choice, and they do choose defense first.
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Expert [1376]
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It can be sliced in several different ways, but the end
Oct 16, 2014, 1:08 AM
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result is, "sometimes teams elect to play defense first".
And yeah, elect is synonymous with choose in this context.
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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Nope, wrong like usual.***
Oct 16, 2014, 10:45 AM
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Choosing to kick is electing to play
Oct 16, 2014, 9:35 AM
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defense first. Not Deferring your choice.
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