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CU Guru [1996]
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Clemson fans need to know their place
Apr 25, 2010, 11:08 AM
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I'll preface this by saying I very rarely frequent the Main Board anymore, due to the absolute ridiculousness posted by 80% of the "fans." Clemson's internet messageboard fans are no longer different or separable from any other school's fans in the country. Personally, I think that the more graduates and generations Clemson loses from its military days and the people who grew up with those expectations and values, the more Clemson's fanbase becomes ordinary. But that's a topic for another day of discussion.
The problem with Clemson fans now is that they don't know their place or role in the athletics world. Clemson doesn't belong in the SEC because, quite frankly, Clemson can't compete in the SEC. Clemson doesn't spend money like an SEC institution. Clemson doesn't hire coaches with the morals and values of SEC coaches. Clemson doesn't recruit like an SEC school. Clemson doesn't emphasize athletics like an SEC institution does. And the fans, as a whole, need to understand that's Clemson's identity and either learn to live with it or find another school to root for.
Clemson has competed for a National Championship one year out of 113 years of existence. That's a whooping 0.9% of the time. We've won 17 conference titles, which is 15% of the time. And if we're being honest with ourselves, Danny Ford won 5 of those in a relative short time period. So strictly looking at the big picture, I would love to hear some of the reasoning as to why anyone thinks we could compete for a divisional title, much less a conference title, in a clearly tougher conference when we currently struggle in a conference that's viewed as weak.
This is the problem with Clemson's fanbase today. We read about the success programs like Florida and Texas have in all of their sports programs and desire to be at that level. The issue with that line of thought is that none of you want to spend money and donate to the athletic department like fans of Florida and Texas do. Purnell loses three NCAA first round games in a row, there's an outcry for him to be fired, and everyone wants to go after Brad Stevens. Yet how many of you are willing to up your donation in the down years? Very few, if I had to guess. Yet, that's what it takes. Also, I think many of you don't realize the amount of alumni these two institutions (and many similar to them) pump out a year. More alumni means more money. So Clemson fans, to regularly compete with schools like that, would actually have to pony up more money per alumni than those schools do. Again, just guessing, I'd be willing to bet the majority of Clemson fans would just hold on to their money when asked to give more.
What it all boils down to is that Clemson fans should stop sounding like whiney, spoiled brats and accept their lot in life or put your money where your mouth is and buy our way into the stratosphere of college athletics like the big boys have done.
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All-In [45883]
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Do you honestly believe that a messageboard.....
Apr 25, 2010, 11:23 AM
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is a true representation of a fanbase?
Please expand on Clemson's identity.
What can Clemson do?
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CU Guru [1996]
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Five years ago, I would have said no
Apr 25, 2010, 11:32 AM
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But in today's climate, the messageboard fan is getting closer and closer to the "real" fan. Just look around ticket distribution time and see who's comparing where there tickets are or glance over at Tiger Tickets. The people donating to Clemson and buying season tickets are becoming the same people posting on messageboards.
My main question to you would be why does Clemson have to do anything? I don't agree with everything done in Clemson athletics and academics, but personally, I feel that Clemson has a very good balance of emphasizing both without jeopardizing the other. I have absolutely no problem with winning a conference championship in football every 10 years, because our history shows that's about how often we do it. I've accepted Clemson's lot in life. I want no part of the SEC on a week-in, week-out basis. Because I'm not going to lie to myself and think we could finish with a winning record, much less compete for titles. I enjoy watching Clemson teams that win more than they lose (in almost all sports). Do you not?
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Yes and no...
Apr 25, 2010, 11:38 AM
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this is not completely correct:
winning a conference championship in football every 10 years, because our history shows that's about how often we do it.
When you set a standard, you should strive to continue it or better it. Is your standard pre-80's, the Danny Ford years, or the post Hatfield era? There is no consistency among the 3.
We showed we could do it the 80's way, but our current standard is 20 years and counting.
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Legend [16186]
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Check out the championships of other schools.......
Apr 25, 2010, 2:33 PM
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...before you demean ours.
Florida has been playing ball for over 100 years and they claim a total of 11 titles of one sort or another. That makes our total fairly respectable. BTW, Clemson had a national title and multiple conference titles before Florida scratched. UF is a great sports powerhouse. They are also a johnny come lately.
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CU Guru [1298]
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Re: Check out the championships of other schools.......
Apr 25, 2010, 2:38 PM
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same for fsu so point well made
also look at the seperation beginning to occur in the SEC teams and the TV revenue pouring into the conference that Florida, Alabama, LSU have access to. it will continue to feed the seperation in the sec i beleive. see georgia and auburn as case in points. they have the revenue to complete outside the conf for recuits etc
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Legend [16186]
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I was shooting at this statement, which I took as demeaning.
Apr 25, 2010, 6:32 PM
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"Clemson has competed for a National Championship one year out of 113 years of existence. That's a whooping 0.9% of the time. We've won 17 conference titles, which is 15% of the time." ( I don't believe that was you franc1968.)
Our titles, our winning percentage, our bowl history and our crowd all put us solidly among the nations best programs. We have won way more than most other programs, so I see no need for demeaning our accomplishments.
That said, I have no interest at all in joining the SEC. That conference has a large number of lifetime members who have gained essentially nothing my virture of their membership. Beats me what the newcomers have gained by joining. And the SEC is a historic joke regarding academics and cheating. When I look at the schedules many of the teams play over there, when I think about half the teams being in the central time zone and when I think about a community of universities I admire, the SEC does not come to my mind.
I cannot believe so many Clemson fans from the Palmetto State, having watched what SC's league has done for the gamecocks, want to follow their lead. That looks like the moron move of all time to me and I do not care at all what it might pay.
Harley
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CU Guru [1996]
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Just to clarify, that was my statement, not franc's
Apr 25, 2010, 7:23 PM
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And I didn't post the numbers to demean what Clemson has accomplished. I just posted them as clear evidence that the expectations many fans hold aren't true to our past successes (recent or historical). Having 17 conference championships is nothing to take lightly. But given that Clemson does only have 17, I think it's a little outrageous for everyone to get bent out of shape with us not winning or competing for one every two or three years.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Here is the difference in my way of thinking on this...
Apr 25, 2010, 10:09 PM
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I agree that Clemson is a small, rural school. Any success we have is a plus.
But, we have to determine a realistic expectation. It seems our entire athletic program was more consistently successful in the 80's.
Some may think that is an unrealistic expectation. I don't. I think it shows what can be accomplished. I look at it as a worthy standard to shoot for, not the exception. It can and has been done.
I personally think we have been competitive for a title for the last few years.
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All-In [45883]
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There are a lot of handles that are haters......
Apr 25, 2010, 12:27 PM
[ in reply to Five years ago, I would have said no ] |
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and who are never at a Clemson sporting events that post on this messageboard.
Why does Clemson have to do anything? "IF" the Big Ten expands the SEC will expand to keep up. "IF" the SEC asks Clemson to join we should accept. Not joining in this scenario would leave us a second tier athletic school in the mega-conference world.
I don't hate the SEC as much as you. I don't know that we could compete any better for titles in the SEC, but we would have more money and better recruiting than in a weakened ACC (who is unlikely to expand).
Do I want to win? What's the use of competing if you don't? It's more forward or back up. If backing up is Clemson's lot in life.....then I'm not for it.
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CU Guru [1153]
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Re: There are a lot of handles that are haters......
Apr 25, 2010, 1:55 PM
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Even if the Big 10 expands, it is yet to be seen if the SEC would. I am not sure that Clemson would even be in the mix anyhow. Current expansion is all about the television media market. Adding the Clemson does little to expand their geographic footprint and television market. FSU or Miami or Texas would make more sense for the SEC
I don't understand the hate for the ACC anyhow. Everyone was thrilled when we added Miami and VT a few years ago. The ACC has Miami, VT, FSU and GT. All of whom are more successful programs than Clemson and better than some SEC programs.
I still think the answer lies within our own conference and we should fix it if the need arises. Its called solving our own problems instead of hiding from them. Otherwise, we end up being the weird kid in PE class raising his hand to be picked even though no one wants them on their team.
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CU Medallion [57377]
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110%er [6169]
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At this point, yes.
Apr 25, 2010, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Do you honestly believe that a messageboard..... ] |
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The world, thanks in large part to the internet, has become greatly more homogenized than ever before. College football is not immune to it. Fans of all schools interact with each other very easily nowadays, and information gets spread all over the place in the blink of an eye.
Clemson fans are not the Clemson fans of the past. I'm not harking back to some nostalgic time of my childhood where the WEZ wasn't there and I could slide down the hill on a piece of cardboard (although those were great memories). But the breed of Clemson fan has changed noticeably within the last 5-10 years.
Personally, I think the changing fan base has more to do with a shift in generation than it does actual interest in Clemson football, but the end result is still the same: Clemson fans act like every other fan, at this point.
That undying loyalty to Clemson is now virtually gone. People simply don't make Clemson a priority in their lives unless Clemson is winning. Sure, some of us do. But in large part, no...absolutely not.
Clemson has changed. We're not unique anymore. Sure, the university is in a unique setting. But as far as that loyalty and that passion for Clemson athletics? Please. It's gone, and it ain't coming back.
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All-In [45883]
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Maybe your passion is gone.....
Apr 25, 2010, 12:39 PM
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next time you are in the stands ask the people around you if they've heard of Tigernet and do they post here.
Thanks for the history lesson on the interwebs. I just got here. 
Yeah, Clemson fans have changed. Because of the cost of season tickets to football.
It's sad the loyalty and passion is gone. It must be the what have you done for me lately attitudes.
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Heisman Winner [119825]
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Rock Defender [54]
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And there is a lot of evidence pointing at Barker for it!***
Apr 25, 2010, 3:52 PM
[ in reply to At this point, yes. ] |
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Connoisseur [370]
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Why should being a fan of a team be a life priority
Apr 26, 2010, 10:08 AM
[ in reply to At this point, yes. ] |
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I can understand if you are actually involved such as a player or coach, but being that we are just fans, I dont think Clemson athletics should be a life priority. There are things that are much more important in life than that such as family, job, friends, religion...
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110%er [5093]
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If you're not willing to punch someone in the face for your
Apr 26, 2010, 4:02 PM
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team, you shouldn't be in the stands imo
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Fan [68]
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110%er [5330]
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Lol what? The only place Clemson fans need to know
Apr 25, 2010, 11:24 AM
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is where their seats are on Saturdays so they can cheer loud. Ya'll overthink this #### too much.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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If I'm not mistaken...
Apr 25, 2010, 11:28 AM
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IPTAY was the largest booster organization in the nation in the early 80's.
If that is true, that gives your post a little credence.
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CU Guru [1996]
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I think that fact is a little misleading though
Apr 25, 2010, 11:38 AM
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If the lowest level of IPTAY donation was $10, I have no doubt Clemson could boast of having the largest pool of donors in the country.
However, if the majority of those donors are only ponying up $10, that's not necessarily going to translate into success since the total dollar figure of donations isn't going to be affected much.
It takes quantity and quality in this situation. Last year was my first year of buying season tickets and I was shocked at how good my seats were, given my level of donation. But all that really means is that Clemson has a lot of donors that give at the lowest possible level, further fueling the fire that Clemson fans just aren't willing to spend big bucks for the on-the-field products.
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null [133]
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Curious as to what your donation level was/is?
Apr 25, 2010, 1:11 PM
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The economy in part with why you tickets were better than you thought they would be...I'm sure many folks had to make tough decisions about giving to IPTAY or paying the mortgage one more month.
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110%er [6169]
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At one point recently Clemson was only behind Texas A&M
Apr 25, 2010, 11:40 AM
[ in reply to If I'm not mistaken... ] |
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I did a quick paper on IPTAY for my HIST 299 class in the mid-2000's, and I remember finding a source (I believe it was a "Clemson World" magazine) that stated in the mid-1990's, Clemson was second only to Texas A&M in percentage of alumni who donate to their university's athletic booster club.
I wish I still had the paper and the source. I'll do some digging.
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All-Conference [435]
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Don't you mean Clemson doesn't hire coaches with the same...
Apr 25, 2010, 11:34 AM
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disregard for morals and values as the coaches in the SEC? I thought that was a good thing.
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CU Guru [1996]
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I completely agree
Apr 25, 2010, 11:39 AM
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I didn't mean that as a bad thing, just as another point in which we don't fit the mold of an SEC institution.
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Rookie [15]
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Re: I completely agree
Apr 25, 2010, 12:32 PM
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I do not post hardly ever on the board but I do visit Tigernet regularly. I even remember the days when if you didn't type in www.thetigernet.com and typed www.tigernet.com instead you got a #### site. Anyway..I digress.
My problem with people saying that Clemson fans need to understand their "place" is ridiculous. I will give you that programs like Florida, Texas, USC (the real one in California), Ohio State, etc. have an adherent advantage due to demography. A program like Texas SHOULD be good year in year out due to their recruiting base and the lure that is Austin and the University of Texas. However, I would be upset if we had fans, players, coaches, and administrators who didn't strive to be at the pinnacle of their sport. Clemson DOES get more fan support and monetarily support than a whole lot of other programs. Obviously, big schools with huge alumni bases should have an advantage. However, Clemson is not without its advantages. Very few programs have the overall passion from its Alumni as Clemson does. To go to Clemson is to fall in love with Clemson. Not all schools have this kind of power over its students and alumni.
Clemson's expectations are high and should stay that way. The whole understanding your place comment is complete hogwash. Should have Boston Red Sox fans just gave up and accepted there place as the lovable curse ridden baseball fans. Do you think that a program like Boise State felt they had to keep their place as a mid-major player. Should the Saints not strived to win a Super Bowl because everyone outside New Orleans had given up on them.
What I am trying to say is that a fan base we should ask and desire to see our team at the pinnacle. Because as fans if we don't demand or desire to see our programs succeed then who are we?
People want to know why Clemson fans are so disenchanted in our lack of success is that we finally acquired the talent to make realistic runs for ACC football titles and we fell short. It wasn't the FSU and Miami's winning titles it was Wake and GT winning it. If you look back at the last 4 years of football and look at how often Vegas has had us as favorites, I think it makes sense that our fans have been disappointed in the lack of titles. We are hungry, we are committed, and we are Clemson. We can't go root for another team. We aren't bandwagonners. All I am saying is that you have to dream high to reach high. If you aren't trying to be the best then you will not ever be the best. Anyway, I rambled a bit but whatever...Go Tigers!
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CU Guru [1153]
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Re: I completely agree
Apr 25, 2010, 2:07 PM
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I remember having to type in tigernet2 to get to this site. Be careful, you are showing your age.
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110%er [5093]
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All-TigerNet [12060]
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You should continue staying away.
Apr 25, 2010, 11:54 AM
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Try to stop posting while you're at it.
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CU Guru [1996]
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Thanks for adding something constructive***
Apr 25, 2010, 11:55 AM
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1st Rounder [639]
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Re: Thanks for adding something constructive***
Apr 25, 2010, 12:33 PM
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if you ask me, the Clemson fans aren't the only problem.
I feel there is a lack of leadership within the athletic department, (and possibly the administration) and it has trickled down to the fan base.
As an alum., I continually get asked to send money, with no accountability or results to show for it. I'm not suggesting not supporting my alma mater, because I loved my time at Clemson and I'm happy to support the University. However, I would prefer to see more transparency and accountability.
I would also like to see the athletic department and administration get on the same page. I understand what Dabo did with the "All In" motto. However, Barker and TDP where pushing the "One Clemson" agenda at the same time.
I think this speaks volumes.
I suggest Clemson University look at it's brand image and focus on marketing what makes it unique as a University. (history, military heritage, etc.) I also suggest sticking with "solid orange" rather than "All In" or "One Clemson" or whatever motto the marketing department comes up with this year...
Maybe if we can all get on the same page, we could focus less time on marketing winners and more time on acting like winners.
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110%er [6768]
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Oculus Spirit [97821]
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One issue with your post.....
Apr 25, 2010, 12:18 PM
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My experience is it's the big donors who are the whiny spoiled brats. It certainly wasn't the farmers from Pickens and Anderson counties who parked their tractors for some football each Saturday for the first 85 years we played football.
It's those rich people who want a return on their investment that are the brats, and they're the ones that make our fan base more and more "ordinary" as we go after more and more money.
If money won football games, Harvard would be the national champions every year.
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CU Guru [1996]
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I can buy into that
Apr 25, 2010, 12:58 PM
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I think your description is true for many fans and season ticket holders, not just the big donors. The conversations a few days ago about who has a right to voice their opinion between alumni vs non-alumni on how donations are spent come to mind. What people (not just big donors) fail to remember is that in the end, the money you give to Clemson is a donation. It's not an investment, which means the fans, no matter how much or little they give, shouldn't "expect" anything in return.
And I apologize if my points were interpreted as that money is all that wins games. It still takes players to execute, competent coaches, and level headed fans to win games. My point is just that it takes more money than Clemson fans give at the current point in time to meet the expectations many fans hold.
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null [133]
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Well....yeah
Apr 25, 2010, 1:19 PM
[ in reply to One issue with your post..... ] |
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If you gave a lot of money wouldn't you want to get some kind of return? What did those farmers give that puts some "skin" in the game?
There is definitely a differences between being vested and a sideline player.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Ambassador [6046]
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Were you born with low expectations?
Apr 25, 2010, 12:27 PM
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or did you have to learn how to have them?
You are the problem with the Clemson fan base, people who believe we'll never be any good, and therefore we shouldn't even try.
Sheesh.
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CU Guru [1028]
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bunch of crap
Apr 25, 2010, 12:35 PM
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Clemson fan's don't know their place or role in sports? Those are the words of pompous jacka$$.
Success is only achieved and measured by money donated? That thought alone speaks volumes about this fine commentary on your notion of sport and competion. Please crawl back to the lounge.
My opinion which may lack the same IPTAY level as your opinion....
Clemson is a very special atmosphere for studies and sport.
Clemson fans are some of the most decent and hospitable in the nation. I am not average nor am I like everybody else's fans.
You may settle for an occasional successful year and enjoy your tailgate. I would prefer to be competitive every year and enjoy my tailgate. And whether basketball, baseball, or football, I would hope we have hired coaches who value our program and value teaching the kids some fundamentals (OP did not and could not). There is no dishonor in losing as long as you play hard.
I hope our institution does it with high caliber athletes on and off the field. At the end of the day, these are young adults finding their way in life. I think Clemson's place in sports are represented very well by student athletes like Kyle Parker, James Davis, CJ Spiller and Cliff Hammonds.
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CU Guru [1996]
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You all but make my points for me
Apr 25, 2010, 1:08 PM
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I never denied that Clemson is a very special place for education and athletics. I spent 6 years at Clemson while earning my undergrad and graduate degrees, so I'm well aware of the aura Clemson has. I never once stated Clemson, the school, was average.
My point is that if Clemson were to move into the SEC, there are two very distinct options it can take: 1) jeopardize our standards to become competitive every year or 2) maintain our standards and drop to the levels of Vanderbilt, Kentucky, etc in terms of competition.
The unfortunate truth is that the year-in, year-out competitive winners don't win with the same type of high caliber, high character athletes you speak of. I love how our University is represented by the athletes you mentioned. But how many student athletes like Parker, Davis, Spiller, & Hammonds can you name on Alabama, Florida, Texas, Southern Cal, etc? Not saying they don't exist, I just don't see the facts to back up the notion that Clemson could raise the level of competition to those levels without sacrificing a lot of what makes the school such a special place. And I'm okay with not making that sacrifice.
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Scout Team [155]
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Re: Clemson fans need to know their place
Apr 25, 2010, 12:38 PM
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One of the best posts i have seen on here, good job.
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CU Guru [1335]
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Clemson compared to the SEC teams***
Apr 25, 2010, 12:44 PM
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CU Guru [1335]
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Clemson compared to the SEC teams
Apr 25, 2010, 12:50 PM
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I can't recall any of these teams winning a NC as an SEC team
Akr
Vandy
Miss St
Miss
Auburn
South Caroina
Kentucky
those that have are
UGA - one time like Clemson
Fla. - twice I think
Tenn- I don't know maybe twice
LSU - maybe 2 or 3 times
Bama - number of times
so it really looks like Clemson is very much ahead of most of the SEC in NC and even with one or two
so only really 3 or 4 teams have really out performed Clemson on the Nationl Championship level.
maybe if Clemson had the money of the SEC, they would hire coaches who wanted to win big and just maybe Clemson could compete as well as 75% of the SEC teams compete.
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All-In [25032]
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Auburn and Ole Miss have
Apr 25, 2010, 12:53 PM
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Ole Miss has 2 I believe
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Enthusiast [127]
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Re: Auburn and Ole Miss have
Apr 25, 2010, 1:20 PM
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They are BS championships. If it isn't the AP it doesn't really count.
UGA - 1
UF - 3
UT - 2
Bama - 7
The ACC has more teams that have appeared or won a national championship in recent memory. VT, GT, FSU, and Miami are all championship relevant over the past 20 years.
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CU Guru [1335]
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I don't see Ole Miss listed on here in any year
Apr 25, 2010, 2:57 PM
[ in reply to Auburn and Ole Miss have ] |
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and Auburn
it says they had one in 1957 but they did prove it in a bowl game
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CU Guru [1335]
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Legend [16186]
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Who is CFP?
Apr 25, 2010, 3:42 PM
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Auburn won a title in 1957, Arkansas won in 1964, Ole Miss won in 60 and 62.
There have been many polls, groups, foundations, press, newspaper and coaches groups who picked national titles through the years. The titles won by the schools I listed in the years I listed them are fairly well recognized by most of college football.
Here's the link I know of that has the most information:
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/index.php
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Legend [16264]
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More money for coaches?
Apr 25, 2010, 1:07 PM
[ in reply to Clemson compared to the SEC teams ] |
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I wouldn't trade Dabo for any coach currently in the SEC, or anywhere for that matter. He is one of us, solid orange, and I peronally believe that he is going to produce consistent winners for us for a long, long time. I hope he's the guy 30 years from now standing on the sidelines running our program.
I feel priveleged to have a young, talented, and dedicated coach with us. It won't always be smooth, but look at Ford's early days, and even Coach K's at Duke if you want to compare bright young talent and what they can do for a program given proper time to gel. More than anything I think this approach better represents Clemson's tradition. Win or lose, with Dabo, unlike TB, we win and lose as one.
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CU Guru [1153]
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My two cents...
Apr 25, 2010, 1:21 PM
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I agree with your sentiment. However, it is difficult to compare ours or anyone's performance over a 113 year timespan. The current era of football should be the measurement of success. What is the current era? I don't know the answer, but I do know that by using that logic, Notre Dame would still be considered the best football program today and that simply is not the case.
I don't think Clemson jumping ship over to the SEC would make any sense. I agree with you that we would be no more successful in that conference then we are in the ACC. It has been a long time since we even dominated this conference. Even in the SEC, there are great football schools (fan support, facilities, etc.) in that of Ole Miss, Georgia, Tennessee, Arkansas...If we were in the SEC, why do so many people think we would have a better chance to compete for a title there? If anything, we would be in the same boat we are now, with a less likelihood of achieving that goal.
Clemson has the appeal of being and "SEC" type program in the ACC. To me, this has its benefits in attracting talent by way of coaches and recruits. Couple that with the 2010 NFL draft and Clemson has a lot to offer.
I think everyone gets wound up over the SEC money deal with CBS and ESPN. It does have a great deal of influence on recruits and does bring financial backing to support athletic facilities. It is an arms race in today's world of televised college football and the expansion of cable TV over the past couple of decades has made it even more so.
I think the answer lies within the ACC. The conference needs to be proactive in protecting it status as a major player in the current BCS system. If it require expansion to keep up, then so be it. The ACC should look to other networks to sign a major TV contract in order to keep up with this arms race and the ridiculous amounts of money it brings into the conference.
Bottom line, Clemson just needs to win the #### ACC and all of this would be a mute point with many of the fans. Beat the SEC schools when we get the chance to. Beat Auburn this year and beat USC and maybe another in a bowl game.
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CU Guru [1996]
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Appreciate the points made***
Apr 25, 2010, 1:23 PM
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CU Guru [1153]
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One more thing
Apr 25, 2010, 1:44 PM
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I can understand your frustration with the message boards. I too graduated Clemson after spending 6 great years there with both my undergraduate and graduate degree. I remember logging onto tigernet my freshman year for the first time to talk Clemson sports some 16 years ago. I admit, there is a lot more useless discussion on here now than there was then.
Even if there are unrealistic expectations by some, at least it shows their passion for success even if misguided at times. I think a lot of the posters want us to be back to the glory days of Clemson football, even though today's students weren't even born yet. I was only in first grade when Clemson won the national title.
Many don't realize how far Clemson has actually come in football over the past decade. Clemson football was not very good from the late 90's and 2000's. In my opinion, Tommy Bowden greatly increased the success of our program and did take it to the next level.
I live in Raleigh, NC, and State fans are the same way with their basketball program. Still living in the Valvano era and can't accept that they are not and elite basketball school. I am sure Notre Dame, Geogia and Michigan football message boards are no different than ours.
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CU Guru [1298]
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Re: Clemson fans need to know their place
Apr 25, 2010, 2:21 PM
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I would agree far too often the tiger board is one of bs rather than meaningful discussion and debate. there is however a large degree of armchair sports fans and not all study the sports they watch so just disregard meaningless comment or move up to the donor board.
I would agree tigernet has not stimulated the old X&0 based clemson fan to participate in the dialog because of less thoughtless opinions. During the search for a replacement for Bowden I attempted to focus clemson fans of which i count myself as one to look at the facts. it is all a matter of $$. the SEC tv contracts pour so much more money into the conference that ACC schools can not compete so look first at the ACC commissioner. next set your expectations based football income and realize you will not compete with southern cal, texas, penn st, ohio state, notre dame in paying coaches and facilities on a year in year out basis. i am not saying we would not beat them on the field. What I am saying is money is the real issue. the fact is the real clemson fans that love the tigers want one thing. to give 110% just like Frank Howard said and be respected. yes we want to win. yes we expect to be in the top of the conference and winning a share of the conference championships where the bowden failure really was. we can and should focus on being a solid top 20 football school. we must attract and recruit consistent top 20 players to do this and coach them up for the NFL thus our coaches need to be respected in the NFL. Clemson needs to produce a good product. this is can be DABO's greatest accomplishment. He approved his ability to take good WR talent and have them recruited into the NFL. He need to attack assistants that can do this. we can far exceed being northwestern or university of SC playing in a conference for $$ only being a lower level school leaving them with a loosing tradition with no hope except to beat cu every now and then just like a blind squirrel finds an acorn.
Can Clemson be a consistent top 10 school doubtful imo bcause of funding. Can Clemson be a top 15 school. It will take the ALL IN Dabo stresses and no more Ncaa setbacks.
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All-In [26552]
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Hey coot
Apr 25, 2010, 3:42 PM
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To address your "points"
1. Yeah, we should strive to be like the Citadel. Right.
2. Boise State can't even afford green turf. They had to buy the blue turf from K-Mart (w/ a coupon)
3. Virginia Tech has 0.0% national titles.
4. Clemson fans donate to IPTAY. Oklahoma fans donate to their players bank accounts.
5. I bet you typed this in your 1 bedroom rented apartment in someone's basement.
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110%er [6169]
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Responses like this make me think Clemson is just normal***
Apr 25, 2010, 3:51 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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What 15 douchebags pointed this dribble???***
Apr 25, 2010, 3:49 PM
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110%er [6169]
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110%er [6768]
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Posters like you telling everyone how to act on a sports msg
Apr 25, 2010, 4:20 PM
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board, are the worst. It would be perfectly fine with me if you stayed away from the main board forever.
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Orange Blooded [3121]
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I think a big problem is the fans don't trust who the money
Apr 25, 2010, 6:44 PM
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goes to.
Clemson athletic leadership seems to be a pretty subpar group.
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CU Guru [1298]
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Re: I think a big problem is the fans don't trust who the money
Apr 25, 2010, 6:46 PM
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and your basis for the postion and comment is
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Enthusiast [118]
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Re: Clemson fans need to know their place
Apr 25, 2010, 9:06 PM
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Sorry, but I believe your way off the mark. As an alumni I believe education should always be the first priorty of Clemson University. However, there is nothing wrong with dreaming, and longing for athletic success. I even occasionally have the nerve to expect more out of our athletic teams. My father is 3rd generation military and I can guarantee you he would not agree with such a self defeating mentallity. Everytime I'm tailgaiting in Death Valley I'm reminded how warm and kind Clemson fans are no matter what they may post on Tigernet. Every year we begin the season undefeated and every year I hope to finish the season undefeated.
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CU Guru [1298]
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Re: Clemson fans need to know their place
Apr 26, 2010, 2:58 PM
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Good job putting the entire argument into perspective as the purpose of the university is to educate.
Clemson is Clemson and those that perceive it as becoming a school of elitists can not even place the matter into a proper perspective. Clemson is a school of higher education and becoming harder - yes - elite no.
I see no one trying to compare Clemson to the elite Ivy League schools
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Head Coach [762]
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that all being said
Apr 26, 2010, 9:04 AM
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Clemson has as many the fball titles as any team in the conference and have not won one in almost 20 years.
Alabama had not won a conference title since 1999 before this year.
Times are changing and we can choose to either change with them or not.
At one time Clemson was not coed - most all will agree that bringing in the women was a GOOD thing.
Change can be good, in fact those that do not change fall behind and become inconsequential.
Look at the Masters in Augusta - one of the most tradition steeped tournaments in existence. When they had to they even changed their COURSE the crown jewels to stay competitive.
You can still have traditions and be competitive, if you make the commitments to do so.
Your last sentence is very much on target it is just that changes need to be made at the top to change the overall direction of the university. Pouring money into Clemson will only help speed up the current Admins agenda which today seems to be fielding "competitive" teams at marginal cost while focusing most resources on becoming a top 20 rated university.
"What it all boils down to is that Clemson fans should stop sounding like whiney, spoiled brats and accept their lot in life or put your money where your mouth is and buy our way into the stratosphere of college athletics like the big boys have done."
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110%er [6861]
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Go back to the other board then you COOT!***
Apr 26, 2010, 10:34 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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The original post sounds like it came from a Wolfpack
Apr 26, 2010, 11:27 AM
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or Gamecock fan.
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