Topic: Honest observation of our WRs
Replies: 42   Last Post: Feb 16, 2020 12:29 PM by: Clemtiger81
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Replies: 42  

Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 3:54 PM

Fact is there is just no routes where separation is created, I don’t know if it’s the routes in our system, our offensive scheme or our WRs, but there has been ONE guy that stands out as an exception- Hunter Renfrow. When we win the 50/50 balls we look great but when we don’t our offense hits a wall, this is an honest observation and I personally believe we need to find separation in routes to win against NFL type corners, too good of QBs on the roster to EVER have our passing game stumped

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 3:57 PM

We’ve won against plenty of NFL corners. There isn’t one reason we lost to LSU, there are a dozen or so little things that added up to the loss. Can’t put it on one unit.

We had guys open. Our QB had a rough night too

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 4:29 PM

When we’re clicking were hard to beat.

I’ll agree that the TE and slot were under utilized last year. We have a QB that can throw it anywhere on the field
We need to make defenses respect that and not just play us up the sidelines.

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Re: We had guys open. Our QB had a rough night too

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 4:39 PM

I can't agree with saying TL had a "rough night" obviously he had a bad game statistically but we had quite literally 0 run game and I said 0 run game not because of ETN but because we completely stopped running the ball midway through the 3rd. LSU put multiple DBs on our WRs and TL was forced into throwing into double coverage or tight coverage but had to put the ball off a bit to make sure an INT didn't happen. The play calling on offense was flat out bad and when we're not just "out athleting" the other team that comes back to bite us. Etienne ran it one time outside of our first drive in the second half and when we're that predictable it's very difficult for anyone to do anything.


Posted: Feb 11, 2020 5:57 PM

SethSly - a bunch of runs were called. But, we give our QB the ability to pull it if he believes he has an advantage in coverage or something.
I think what should have happened - to your point - is some straight up called run plays to get the ball to Travis!

DK - short area quickness missed.

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 6:00 PM

DK is one of those - quicker - than fast(he is fast too though). His explosiveness off the line was compared to Sammy Watkins.
His move to DB hurt a bunch. But, necessity called for his services in another area on the team.

TL16 - had a rough night. He missed some passes would ordinarily/routinely make. He even says that. I think he grows from the NCG experience and comes back a far better player and Clemson sets records this coming season!

I was talking about the passing game

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 10:14 PM

Trevor threw almost half the balls high that night. Go back and watch they even show a stat

Don’t even get me started on abandoning the run. We were gashing them and we should have leaned on it when the score was 25-28

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2 opponents we faced last season w/ comparable talent, held our WR's in check****

Posted: Feb 13, 2020 2:04 PM

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 4:03 PM

I have noticed the same thing. It seems like our receivers just don't have the short area quickness or speed to get that separation against good competition in the playoffs. Perhaps it is route running skills, but we do well when we can utilize our big body receivers to go up and get those 50/50 balls, but when that is not working we struggled last year. Renfrow's value was just amazing to sustaining our offense. Ross, Ladson and Ngata will be good but are all in the same mold. I do hope our new receiver recruiting is going to adjust for 2021. Hopefully we can find that 5* receiver that can help. ETN's new found receiving ability will help, but I think we need to recruit at least one or two receivers with good acceleration and hands to balance what we have.

That’s more of a technical route running problem

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 4:33 PM

There’s tons of tricks to create illusion of speed, misdirection, etc. hunter was a technician.

Frankly we seem to be missing routes in our offense. Slant, whip, drags, posts. I know we have them but they’re rarely utilized.

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Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 13, 2020 2:46 PM

E.Williams, as well as the 2 2021 commits is of the "same mold" (good height & length, athletic, rangy possession recievers lacking true long speed-height is a bonus but it will naturally affect quickness & change of direction?skilled route running a must

?? ?? ?? ??

Posted: Feb 13, 2020 2:50 PM

Are of the same mold

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 16, 2020 12:29 PM

I agree. For all of Jeff Scott's strengths this is one area that he was not able noticeably improve. Receivers where not a lot better at route running after a few years than when they came in (current example is Ross).Our guys do get better when they get to NFL, so it is coaching related.
Alabama always does a good job with route running, year in and year out. It is one of these small but important things that matter when facing top competition.

I tend to agree with you, there is no reason why we only

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 4:05 PM

had one receiver that had success in the CFP this past season. And thats mainly because he was an outstanding, tall, physical receiver that no one person could really cover. Theres not reason why Trevor isn't dishing the ball around to Amari, or Justyn, or Diondre with consistency when Tee is out of doubled. When TEE left the game, i had this feeling like welp there goes our only WR threat ...and halfway through that i was like...theres no excuse at Clemson with our embarrassment of riches that this should ever be the thought for us.

All that to say you're probably right about something being "off" with the passing game offense. There is no lack in talent. So we should have had way more success in the passing game against both those teams. Where was Ross? Where was Amari? Where was Overton? WE had one guy that was having success and he was injury ridden for those two games. Hopefully they get under the hood a little this offseason and do a little tinkering.

Not saying this wasn't a great year guys. Just agreeing that the presence of our offense stalling was puzzling. Glad we had Etienne because he got us out of alot of jams against OSU and LSU.

^ Yeah, but LSU covered ETN better after seeing what he did vs Buckies..

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 4:25 PM

especially the pop pass.

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I saw one failed pop pass. How many did you see?***

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 10:12 PM

Ross was our leading receiver against LSU with

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 6:00 PM

5 catches for 76 yards. Tee had 3 for 52, although the BS offensive PI call took a big one away. Against OSU Ross was our leading WR with 6 catches for 47 with ETN leading the receiving yards for 3/98 and 2 TDs. Ross had 94 rec yards in the ACCCG.

All in all he had 66 catches for 865 yards and 8 TDs. I'd say that's pretty good for a true sophomore. For comparison Tee had 59 catches for 936 yards and 12 TDs his sophomore year.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 5:24 PM

It was pretty obvious those last two games that when our WRs are going against good CBs our outside passing game slows way down. Its unfortunate that we went into the second of those two games having not appeared to have learned and adapted from the first. Throwing jump balls twenty yards down field is a viable offensive strategy most of the season but it's not something you can plan on being available in the CFP.

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 5:50 PM

After reading responses, Obviously you guys have noticed the same things, I know we are blessed with a really great run these past few years and I’m not a whiner etc but if you a really paying attention to the Xs and Os, it’s obvious

What happened between 2018 and 2019?***

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 10:13 PM

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 5:47 PM

With Joe Brady being up here in Charlotte I've wondered if our staff would reach out to him during their self-scouting review period.

He did a great job with the LSU vertical passing game this season, and I don't doubt he could have some good ideas, if he would share them.

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 13, 2020 6:59 PM

Seems like an obvious & logical move; it use to be common practice just 3 or 4 yrs ago, & may still, just haven't heard or read about any of the O staff traveling to observe/study the latest concepts employed by the more innovative minds in CFB (or pro)-pride or sloth

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 9:13 PM

Joe Brady May turn out to be a bust at Carolina without LSU qb and super receivers .
I think Dabo will do just fine .

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I think our scheme kills zone coverage, and man coverage if

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 5:59 PM

they don't have a ton of big corners. In the two CFP games, we ran into teams that played a lot of man and had great athletes. We moved to QB run and passes to the backs, which got us through the ocryo state game. In the LSU game, we were off a little and just didn't have it. Still, it was a 28-23 game in the third quarter. Hopefully they will adjust a bit over the summer and roll out some new routes this fall. Can't wait!

2020 white level member

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 6:44 PM

My takeaway was Aranda completely overwhelmed Elliott and Dabo with his defensive adjustments in the 2nd half. Elliott took the heat, but Dabo was right in there making play calls with Elliott.

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This*** ***

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 10:18 PM

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Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 11:23 PM

That was a point that Herbie made at the beginning of the broadcast: our outside guys were taking inside releases because LSU was giving it to us.

By the second half, both Tee and Justyn were only taking outside releases into the sideline. Trevor had very small windows to throw into. ESPN kept talking about "overthrows", but any Clemson fan knows that's Trevor's 'err on the high side' throw (otherwise known as "a go-get-it ball").

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 16, 2020 9:25 AM

Don't think Aranda overcame crap...his folks were holding, grabbing, turning and just busting the receiver before the ball arrived and the 'refs' were just letting them 'play'...same thing that makes 'rape' a spectator sport in Louisiana and elsewhere in the south! We were not accustomed to that with Ohio State or LSU and it hurt us...50/50 routes are fine if the DB is not holding...What chapped my a++ was the PI call on Tee after he'd been mugged the whole game...Don't round your routes unless you are blessed with speed and big bodies and jumping ability may not help in a 'riot' at the Louisiana State Prison in New Orleans! Probably told the refs before the game that if you call it tight you will not get out of the superdome alive...you just thought the hurricane was bad! Has happened before!

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 7:05 PM

I’m hoping for a Troy Stellato, Mario Williams, Malik Rutherford next cycle. We have enough 6’4 deep threats.

Maybe: "the closest I will ever get to Rich PPL problems"

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 7:48 PM

As a Clemson Tigers fan and supporter - this is as close to having Rich people problems as I will probably ever get!

Go Tigers!

We are here talking about losing a NCG to a "one in a freaking - it all had to happen at the same time - freakishly weird situation LSU team"!
Other teams just want to make a bowl game! Not even a New Years Bowl game. Just "A" bowl game.

Look - Joseph Brady runs his passing game unlike anything we have seen. And, it got married up to a 5th year QB who is very poised. They always have top tier WR's; but their OL was outstanding too! Tip our hat to them. I still don't think they beat us with an "on Trevor Lawrence"!
But, it is what it is. Our WR corps is outstanding! Ngata, Ladson, Ross, Rogers and company are poised to have huge years i.m.o. Big thing for us will be pushing and challenging our young OL in practice. The LSU line was good enough to have won the award for best OL. Yet, Burrow averaged 10 yards each time he was forced to leave the pocket. Which means, "they were just freakishly right place/right time"! We good folks! Unless others teams have an innovator like Joseph Brady: poised beyond comprehension QB like Burrow: freakishly talented WR's and TE X4: a fire hydrant who is nearly unstoppable 1 on 1 out the backfield and he saw plenty of that because teams dropped so many to defend the pass. We good and will be better because of the loss in the NCG.

The thread about LSU being loaded has not gotten 1 read from me. It don't matter! Joseph Brady won't be calling the plays! Burrow won't be pulling the trigger. The End.
CU in my opinion just needs to ensure the young OL guys see everything in practice to prepare them for Saturdays. If that happens - the questions about our WR corps will disappear faster than a 100 dollar bill someone lost at Mardi Gras 2015 at around 11:45 pm. < ------ random "non-specific" example!

Re: Maybe: "the closest I will ever get to Rich PPL problems"

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 9:49 PM

Get what you're saying and a lot like rich peep probs. But our WR's got thier buts handed to them. They got knocked off their routes and weren't prepared for it. Our offense was stale and we panicked in the second half when we didn't need too.

We got outplayed and outcoached. It does happen some times. Most of the time it's Dabo outcoaching.

Not CBV though. He did A+ defending them with what he had. Not sure what's up with Mario but he didn't get enough snaps over the season in critical situations and obviously couldn't spell AJ with a legit backup. That shocks me. Hopefully he steps up his game this year.

We'll be fine but our receivers need to learn from the LSU receivers on physical play and creating separation.

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We can’t afford to be losing games to the SEC

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 10:19 PM

Can’t stand em

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I agree to a degree. Dabo is on the headsets and

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 10:21 PM

commenting on plays all game. He certainly needs to take a big portion of the blame, yes I said blame, for abandoning the running game. That was very foolish. We got greedy and played right into LSU's game, and Dabo was right there not stopping it. I am frankly a little disappointed. Still ALL IN, don't get me wrong, but we need to learn there comes times where we need to be able to physically whip defenses and try to be less finesse and look for big shots. Nothing wrong with long, methodical drives, especially against a scoring machine like LSU. I mean, it was just 2016 where we ran 99 plays against Alabama. Where did that offense go? We needed that gameplan against LSU. Maybe we panicked? I don't know, but hoppefully we learn from this game.

Re: I agree to a degree. Dabo is on the headsets and

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 1:35 PM

The flip side of that is that our DL needs to get much, much better.

The difference between 2016/2018 and this past Natty was that our DL's were very solid and got lots of pressure on Hurts/Tua. We had almost no pressure on Burrow after the first quarter. XT has been disappointing to say the least. He came in heralded as the next potential Clowney or Vic Beasley and hasn't done much outside of that one sack against Syracuse in 2018. Foster and Henry also need to greatly improve.

If we have the DL and pass rush of 2018 against burrow and Co., we win that game by 2 TD's at least. I'm hoping that Bresee and Murphy make immediate impacts because that's our biggest miss on defense right now. Bates has got to get XT's head right. He was suspended for the first half of the Natty due to discipline issues and he really needs to have a big junior year if he has any plans on making it to the NFL.

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 13, 2020 6:19 PM

Agree on those WR targets but "deep threats" description might be a stretch

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 11, 2020 10:34 PM

I wish that alongside the TU/TD button there were an icon for an eye-roll .

That's what I would wish for this posts assertion .

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Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 13, 2020 12:47 PM

This group of WRs' is great but they were not tough...LSU was extremely physical and the refs were not calling PI on them...Mike Williams would have chewed them up and spit them out...Higgins, Ross and company need to become a little more physical to go with the great set of hands...we can change all of this with a class set of tight ends and a great one can occupy the linebackers and a safety as well...pull up short the linebackers can't see and have to cover you tight, steps behind and they have to move back to turn you...then safety has to come up to help...I think we have some great tight ends coming and they need to be coached to roam the middle and bust some chops..'chip a tooth when you get in there..their tooth not yours'...TL can become a magician of the jump pass with a large bodied tight end with great hands! Watch film on those coming...we have one that could fake a block on a linebacker and turn upfield and porbably outrun most FS or SS to the enzone and he can jump and catch at the same time!

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 13, 2020 1:06 PM

Wonder if we can find out what percentage of our passes are outside the hashes and what are between the hashes. With Etienne at RB, the opposing LBs should be in no mans land
With polar action and throwing it behind the LBs, they e we oils have to choose one or the other, there’s no way they can defend both Etienne and a passing threat across the middle

Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 13, 2020 8:11 PM

It's got to be a high ratio. I understand not taking the chance or showing it all year but with LSU I was lickin my chops the first couple passed to Galloway. We never went back to it or it wasn't there or Trevor didn't read it... Don't know but Galloway proved he could catch, but even besides TE, drag etn over the middle to occupy and make LSU bite. If they do, tee or Jr had to be open.

I think the coaches will pick it apart in self eval and maybe Scott leaving will prove to be for the better.

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Re: Honest observation of our WRs

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 9:05 AM

Sharp cuts...don't round off corners unless you are much faster than the cat covering you...Renfrow was great because he had sharp square corners...didn't give the cut away to the DB and therefore made him open period...Hunter played against lots of DB's that were much faster than him and they still could not cover him...that difference is accentuated on a wet field or one with less than great turf! Go Tigers!

Re: Honest observation of our WRs ????????

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 10:32 AM

When someone writes "HONEST" as part of a post title, do they mean 'My personal observation follows and it is not likely to be well received'?

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Thank you!

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 8:20 PM

I had been saying that all year. Trevor was phenomenal all year, but the vast majority of his throws were contested with very little margin for error. If you watch Justin Fields play last year, most of his completions were to a WR that seemingly didn’t have a DB within 5-8 yards of the WR. Takes a lot of stress off the QB when such separation is created.

If I were a WR coach, the metric I would track and continually seek to optimize would be DB-WR distance at time of ball arrival. Hunter was the master, but Nuk was darn close.



Posted: Feb 14, 2020 8:27 PM

Against LSU in the 2012 Chick-fil-A bowl, Nuk was uncoverable. Sammy goes out the first play with an ankle, not to return. Didn’t matter. The whole LSU secondary and coaching staff knew we were going to Nuk all game and it didn’t matter. They couldn’t stop him and he got separation at will.

Nuk is the best receiver in the NFL, but he ain’t a blazer. Nor was Jerry Rice - Rice ram a 4.6 40. What they have in common is they create separation at will and have great hands. Just my $0.02


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