Topic: Let's be honest about a few things:
Replies: 40   Last Post: Oct 29, 2013 9:26 AM by: TigerSilas
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Let's be honest about a few things:

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:04 PM

#1: We're good, but we're not great. We're top-10 and deserving of that spot. But let's not kid ourselves - we saw, up close, what a National Championship contender looks like - and we just overall aren't that (yet).
#2: Dabo is, by far and away, 10x the coach that Bowden was. Don't get me wrong, I liked Bowden, and he did some great things for our program. But, take away his wins in the Bowden Bowls (that perennially saved his behind) and he was a 6-6 coach. His wins over the Gaycocks mean nothing in today's terms; the USuCk teams we play today would have destroyed us 10 years ago.
(Which leads me to) #3: These aren't your parent's gaycocks. They're pretty decent - especially with Shaw leading them. This almost made me throw up typing this, but it's true. Hate isn't a strong enough word for how I feel about them, but I can't knock them. Them coming back and winning at Mizzou definitely shows they have strength, and makes me a little more nervous over our upcoming matchup.
#4: Morris and Venables are great coordinators. Quit your bitching - what more are you wanting?? And who are you going to get to replace either of them?
(Which leads me to) #5: Seriously - other than a National Championship, what is it going to take to make some of you happy?? We're top-10, at the top of the ACC, capable of beating anyone, in the NC conversation, outstanding recruiting and with a program all of us should be proud of. Yet, we lose ONE GAME - to an admitted better team, and you guys are ready to fire Dabo and (crazily) suggesting Bowden is a better coach?? I guess some of you forget how happy we were when we'd get bowl eligible, how a top-10 ranking was a pipe dream, and how the Peach Bowl was all you'd hope for. Now, we're disgusted when they bring that up, and if we go 10-2, and (heaven forbid) happen to lose to a very good USuCk - in their house - you want to fire our coach??

The point of this is we're a very good team, with our only loss to probably the best team in the country. Dabo has done countless things to benefit our program and university as a whole. There's only one Saban, and we can't afford him - we should be extremely happy with what we have and realize we're sitting where many of you haters thought we'd never be. The fact we even have to have these conversations is nonsensical, and shows how out-of-touch with reality some of you can be.

just a minor correction

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:06 PM

they're not "pretty decent"....

they're pretty d@mn good... just say'in

"I've been working since I was 15 continually until now. I worked 40 hours a week at 15, when it wasn't even legal for 15 year olds to work that many hours."

Like us, they can also look pretty bad at times***

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:09 PM

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:14 PM

"I've been working since I was 15 continually until now. I worked 40 hours a week at 15, when it wasn't even legal for 15 year olds to work that many hours."

so basically.........

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:12 PM

as long as South Carolina is "good" we shouldn't expect to beat them, even though we/dabo hangs his hat on beating a top LSU team, top UGA team, a couple of Auburn teams.........as long as SCar is "good" we're losing.............we're a "top 10 program", but as long as SCar is "good" we're not beating them and it's ok???......???................we're an "ACC power", but as long as SCar is "good" we shouldn't worry/expect to beat them???..............??.......................this mindset from "clemson fans" ticks me off to no end..........and this mindset must carry over to the coaches and team which is even more disturbing.

USuC is not going to be the problem in years to come-FSU is

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:30 PM

going to be the roadblock--find a way to beat this new power in FSU and we will beat USuC

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Or we just learn to chant "ACC!!! ACC!!!!!"

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:31 PM

Works for that other conference, right?

But not for a proud Tiger fan.***

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:32 PM

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No, that was a tongue in cheek suggestion...

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:36 PM

Just saying, as bad as it sounds - if FSU regains their powerhouse status of previous years (and we can be competitive with them) that is the absolutely best thing for our conference - and is equally damaging to the SEC. Someone is going to dethrone the SEC as the reigning NC. In a perfect world, it would be us this year. But, who is the ideal #2 choice, if it can't be the Clemson Tigers??

FSU doesn't "make or break" a season for me.....

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:33 PM

South Carolina does

Take THIS YEAR for example

sure FSU stomped us, but we have the chance to go 11-1 w/ a likely sugar bowl berth, but we HAVE to beat South Carolina for that to happen

I don't "cash it in" just because we don't win the ACC

who said that ??????? nobody here likes losing to usuc .

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:31 PM

what he is saying, at least the way i read it, is bowden would have the same 1-4 record if they had played the last 4 years. where are we the weakest on defense ? ok, i'll answer that for you, db's. now, think back to when tb was , uh, left behind. we had 2 or 3 top-10 rated db's committed, and lost both. that is just 1 example of what dabo faced when he took over. we are , scratch that, imo, we HAVE now caught up. we'll win at the roach this november. without a doubt in my mind.


there are a lot of fans "saying" this.........

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:37 PM

it's their excuse/fallback/etc to justify or make them feel better about losing to USC rather than just ADMITTING it's unacceptable to lose to them 4 straight years......heaven forbid 5

had tommy lost 4 straight to "good" USC teams EVERYBODY on here would be calling for his head........and likely rightfully so, but since dabo is such an "anti tommy" in many fans eyes their view/judgement on dabo is much different/skewed

Re: so basically.........

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 7:37 PM

Don't speak truth around here, they hate it.

Re: Let's be honest about a few things:

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:22 PM

I will refer you to baseball when we made it all the way to Omaha and even chalked up some wins in Omaha but then lost to.....the Coots. So...we were one of the best teams in the country in baseball....just not the best in the state of South Carolina. That sucks if you live in SC. At some point...no matter how well we do with the rest of our schedule, we need to beat our rivals consistently. Bowden understood that and that's why he kept his job probably longer than he should. Unfortunately for Dabo he has the reverse going which one could guess he might lose his job faster than he should...ie if we lose 6 or more in a row, despite whatever else the record is. Just beat the coots and all is well.


USC games aren't what kept/lost TB's job...

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:27 PM

It was losing to Duke, Wake, Maryland, NC State... The term "Clemsoning" - that's 100% on Bowden. Occasionally, he won the games we shouldn't, but he lost games we should have won with 2x the frequency. That's what cost his job. I hate losing, but at least it's understandable when we lose to a team that's on our level. When FSU beats Alabama like a drum in the NC, it will all become a little more clear. Dabo wins the games we're supposed to win - that's why he's going to stick around much longer than our previous coach. End of story.

Re: USC games aren't what kept/lost TB's job...

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:45 PM

I agree Bowden losing to whom he shouldn't cost his job....I didn't say it didn't. What I DID say was that he stayed around longer than he should have because of his ownership of the coots. Also...Dabo went from interim coach to coach with his only win over the coots. Point being that beating the coots matters....a lot!!! I went on to speculate that if Dabo keeps on losing to the coots no matter how well he does in the ACC, it will shorten his tenure here. It's a problem that needs to be fixed.


I can semi-agree with your post...

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:48 PM

However, if memory serves me correctly, it was his wins over his daddy that kept him around. It seemed that every year, we were ALWAYS calling for his head - and then inevitably he'd wind up beating a top-5 FSU in our house, and all would be forgotten. The USC games were just the cherries on top.

now we're not owning either one of them..........

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:54 PM

2-4 vs FSU

1-4 vs USC

i'd rather let FSU have the ACC if it meant the start beating South Carolina again

Re: USC games aren't what kept/lost TB's job...

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 7:38 PM

Bullcrap. Bowden lost to inferior opponents for 9 years before he was fired. Take away the chicken kickins' and NO WAY would he have been given anything past 5 years.

Had Bowden beat the Dukes and Wakes but lost to the coots

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 7:45 PM

he would have been fired a lot sooner

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let's be brutally honest

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:34 PM

Clemson friken rules exclamation point period

wisertimes IS WISER & spot on...

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:39 PM

other than wanting more from our guys on a consistency level, we've nothing to be ashamed of!
losing to top 5-10 teams is absolutely going to happen sometimes, but we don't lose to the lesser opponents...
anybody SERIOUSLY thinking we should get rid of Dabo for all he's accomplished here, even if we do lose another game this season is on crack rock & needs some serious help or schooling. emotion does not equal logic...gotta see the big picture & have patience!

Dabo will succeed here

Thanks jb... The name "wisertime" is actually

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:46 PM

Taken from a Black Crowes song; a favorite of mine, and the screen name I use on most other forums. But I always appreciate the rational response from a level-headed Tiger fan any time I can get one! Good to see we're not all ready to jump from a tall building.

i DETEST the USuCkers with ALL my being! but...Pheebo:

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:50 PM

even you have to admit that losing the last 4 to them has A LOT to do with recruiting hits & losses to the program from the coaching change & that hasn't made it any easier for Dabo...TBowden (or his teams) wouldn't have beaten UGA or LSU & would've also probably dropped the ball on some dumpy teams along the way at home as well!

I know, because I've sat through many of those disappointments...
that sheety little Clemson phrase came about because of his time here.


HATE THE COOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahhhh...Black Crows :-) those were the days & they're great

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 1:59 PM

had to eat a little "crow" after that FSU game, lol.

beating USuCk & winning out would make me happy!!! We need that!!!!!!

losing another, not so much, but we're still experiencing growing pains. I like the direction we're headed & there can only be one #1...just sadly not us this year & even less so the clucks! so, YAY to that!

Re: Let's be honest about a few things:

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 2:21 PM

Dabo is marginally better. He works harder and we're better, but not 10 times. We've won more in conference, but conference down (BC,VT,Wake especially).We've failed versus our #1 rival, but they are better. Bottom line: the top 2 goals EVERY year are beat SC and win bowl game(regardless of what bowl). If we do that 2 out of every 3 years the rest takes care of itself. I'd rather be unranked and beat SC than to be in top 10 and lost to them. Period.

The conference is way down

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 2:34 PM

with the exception of FSU, which judging by the past few weeks, is back.

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i feel ya...

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 2:35 PM

nothing worse than losing to clucks, I TOTALLY AGREE!
I hate hearing all the yang-yang from them all year afterwards, & i am aquainted with MANY coot fans being from SC myself & also Newberry which is 30 min down 26...

BUT i do like being in the top 10 & NC talk, & being showcased in the media for our football & other sports programs, not to mention our highly accredited education offered & the university's image in itself...helps with recruits = helps our program long-term.

That's all football too if you want to be good the right way. I've got Clemson pride...

I think we win Nov 30th & I'll be there cheering on my Tigers!

Losing to SC is not acceptable.

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 2:33 PM

I don't care how good they are.

Especially when you consider 4 in a row. And not 4 in a row that have been barn burners/defensive battles/last second field goals.

Four in a row where the game has been over in the 3rd quarter. 4 straight blow outs.

Dabo, as the actual head coach, hasn't been remotely competitive with them.

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Re: Losing to SC is not acceptable.

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 2:42 PM

Agreed. Even though we only lost by 10 last year, you got the sense after Swag stood over AE that no one wanted to be there.

Re: Losing to SC is not acceptable.

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 2:47 PM

we (Dabo & team) need to pick it up a notch, especially this year for many reasons!

but if Tommy Bowden or anyone else, other than Dabo, could be doing a better job or even surely would & wanted to be our head coach, then by all means...go right ahead.
i think we've got what we've got and it's doubtful to me that anyone on this board would do a better job either.

even when i hate what we do sometimes, losing games, playcalls, etc... i still have to support Dabo as being our best option for the money because of the program he's building...and that's no bull**** because you simply have to look at the numbers & wins progression. to do so you have to able to take away the names of the losses. you keep winning 10 & 11 EVERY year consecutively & you will win a championship & maybe a run just like Bama has done!

Re: Let's be honest about a few things:

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 3:04 PM

GREAT post! I agree! Dabo and our whole coaching staff is awesome and we are lucky to have them. If we are good enough to get to 10-2 (which I think we are and hopefully better) then that would be the first time in our history we have had 10 wins in 3 straight seasons. Dabo just keeps doing outstanding things for this program and people need to support the team.

2 thoughts

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 8:14 PM

1) I share much of your opinion about the Coots and the challenge they present for us again this year, but choose not to post it on this board. This is, after all, a CLEMSON board, and the mods are, IMHO, a little too tolerant of Coot "visitors". They are all squawking and strutting and coming over here fishing for compliments, and here we are practically conceding another game? NOT acceptable!
2) much of your point is valid regarding the relative strengths of the two rivals during the Bowden vs Swinney eras, and it might be understandable if Dabo had a more pedestrian winning percentage of around 50% against the Coots, BUT THE CLEMSON TIGERS SHOULD NEVER LOSE 4 IN A ROW...TO ANYBODY!!! ESPECIALLY THE COOTS!!!!!

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After all, Dabo himself said

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 8:25 PM

That if THIS YEAR's Clemson team played THIS YEAR's Florida State, Clemson would win half.

I like Dabo, too, but he needs to "get" the importance of this rivalry game.

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Re: Let's be honest about a few things:***

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 8:17 PM

Re: Let's be honest about a few things:

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 8:22 PM

Teams come and go, no one will be dominate for lengths like Alabama under Bear. To much changing. Look at SoCal, Texas, Nebraska. Dominate in years past but not so much now. Other teams like Oregon are up now, but wont be for ever. Just wait, 5 years from now will be totally different than now. Think of this post in 208

Re: Let's be honest about a few things:

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 8:22 PM

Teams come and go, no one will be dominate for lengths like Alabama under Bear. To much changing. Look at SoCal, Texas, Nebraska. Dominate in years past but not so much now. Other teams like Oregon are up now, but wont be for ever. Just wait, 5 years from now will be totally different than now. Think of this post in 208

Re: Let's be honest about a few things:

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 8:31 PM

I don't care how good Scar ever gets in football. Losing 4 straight to them is totally unacceptable. Dabo should be held accountable if he fails to beat the chickens this year. I'm tired of his excuses.

Re: Let's be honest about a few things: @CUBobby

Posted: Oct 28, 2013 8:46 PM

by accountable, are you saying fire him if we lose???

sorry, but that's just ludicrous!

& who's going to replace him & continue the climb he's started without us regressing or spiraling into sh*t significance again???

That's just crazy-talk.

reality is:
you can't win'em all, no matter who you have & how much you want it...too many factors involved.

if we can beat up the USuCkers for so many years & beat'em for consecutive stretches for 4, 5, 6 , & 7 years in a row many times over, then it's not beyond reality that luck will eventually fall there way at some point, which is where they are & have been the last 4 years.
that will change hopefully starting this year again!

It almost seems like a TEST for Dabo & the coaches, us as fans & the power people of the university...


God forbid we blow this opportunity for sustained success thanks to the job Dabo is doing & go all Obama on us like so many have our country...

Go Tigers!

Re: Let's be honest about a few things:

Posted: Oct 29, 2013 9:13 AM

and you are an idiot!

Let's be more honest..

Posted: Oct 29, 2013 9:26 AM

Being in the ACC is a huge disadvantage for Dabo. Right now if we had the SEC card to use in recruiting like Spurrier does we would have Clowney, Gurley, Marshall, maybe Nkemdiche and others. Then what would Dabo's record be against Spurrier? Further, put Spurrier in the ACC and let him try to recruit to SC and see how mighty he is.

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