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Topic: TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame
Replies: 26   Last Post: Nov 9, 2020, 1:56 PM by: CUYankee
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TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame


Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 7:01 PM
 

 
Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame

Seeing where the fourth-ranked Tigers stand out of a uneven performance at Notre Dame. Full Story »



The QB and the WRs/Tes get an A, RBs get a C and the OL

[3]
Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 7:04 PM
 

gets an F-...Coaching gets a C+


Hard to grade the RBs when they never had a chance to get

[3]
Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 7:12 PM
 

past the line of scrimmage. The lousy run blocking wasn't a new problem or attributable to ND's defense either, as it's been terrible for weeks. I know we can't be stellar in every area every year, but it's hard to comprehend how our run blocking got this bad.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
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Question re the OL

[2]
Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 7:27 PM
 

It’s hard to understand where the OL is regarding the rest of the program. If you believe the recruiting evaluations we have done above avg overall recruiting OL. It’s pretty evident we recruit pass blockers instead of run blockers.

You would think we would have more opportunity for more highly ranked recruits. But we rarely go head to head with the big schools on OL. And of course our history with putting OL in the nfl is used against us.

Would you not go after a coach that is highly respected as an OL coach in terms of technique and development?

I guess with all the resources we have it’s tough to understand why the OL has not been better over the last 10 years.


All good questions, and I don't know the answers.

[1]
Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 8:00 PM
 

I just know what I see.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
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Re: Question re the OL

[2]
Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 8:46 PM
 

TD Tigers said:

It’s hard to understand where the OL is regarding the rest of the program. If you believe the recruiting evaluations we have done above avg overall recruiting OL. It’s pretty evident we recruit pass blockers instead of run blockers.

You would think we would have more opportunity for more highly ranked recruits. But we rarely go head to head with the big schools on OL. And of course our history with putting OL in the nfl is used against us.

Would you not go after a coach that is highly respected as an OL coach in terms of technique and development?

I guess with all the resources we have it’s tough to understand why the OL has not been better over the last 10 years.



Recruiting philosophy. Offer slow. Focus regionally. Camp first to get to know the player etc. Also, roster management.. need to carry more OL because some are misses and injuries happen frequently in the trenches... the ones that make the injury report are only the tip of the iceberg. OL are held together by tape, braces and whatever magic pills or injections that are legal.

I think recruiting is getting fixed. However that is a longer term fix. Short term fixes has to come from the OC mitigating the weakness and maximizing strengths thru scheme and in-game play calling. Our OL situation this year was known waaay before the season started. The staff either planned for it and made adjustments or they didn't.


Oline play is more coaching and philosophy..


Posted: Nov 9, 2020, 8:19 AM
 

than recruiting....you dont need a bunch of large 4 and 5 stars to be successful. I haven't rewatched the game but their 2nd and 3rd level made a lot of plays against the run game too.


Both Travis and Lin-J made poor decisions on returns and


Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 11:24 PM
 

gave us crappy field position most of the first half...Travis whiffed on a couple of blitz pickups...In addition Melusi played two snaps, lined up wrong one of them resulting in a broken play...And then there's the fumble...If you want to give it a C+, I'll listen...Anything else is simply too high


Re: TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame

[1]
Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 7:21 PM
 

Could you grade coaches too


Dabo’s clock management = F


Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 10:55 PM
 

Venable’s defensive call the last series = D-

Both are the best coaches we have ever had at their title but Dabo is simply awful at managing clock. BV played way too risky with a banged up defense and gave Book, who had a career day, an easy deep shot, which allowed them to score with ease and not use a single TO.

I won’t grade Elliott as I have never felt he was more than average to slightly above average. However, until the OL shows improvement, I don’t expect us to run the ball as he can’t scheme good enough to run on Syracuse, whose defense is a sieve.

Perhaps we take a scholarship away from the WR or LB or RB and get a few more OL as this is the single most common weakness year to year.

Pearman is our worst coach by far but we are obviously stuck with him.

Finally, I like Bates but clearly he is no Dan Brooks. Something to keep an eye on.

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These are very reactive observations....

[1]
Posted: Nov 9, 2020, 8:29 AM
 

- We all would have loved to see the final drive go better but the referee clock mgt to screws us on that is mind blowing. Still dont know what happened there. Either they take the TO or you run the clock, odd. also, He didn't tell ETN to run out of bounds...risky play maybe but always chance he spring one.

- BV had to take some gambles to get pressure and Book had made poor decisions during the game against pressure at times...Ideally you play it safe but its a catch 22.

- its simply amazing how much we trash Elliott..guy gets zero credit and only has one of the best offenses every single season

- OL schollies isn't the issue...its just how we run our offense, its who we are. never gonna be a smash mouth team but dont have to be either, we still have alot of success. Id love to be but we aren't. If you want to point fingers, look to the coaching. If its year after year, thats the only constant...we've recruited very well.

- Sure Bates isn't Brooks but he's doing well. Our D-line hasn't been an issue since he's been here.

- Pearman gets a bad rep and not sure why you are calling him out. TE's are fine and we actually have talent at that position now. He is the TE coach...what else is he supposed to do?


A clock mismanagement argument can definitely be made...


Posted: Nov 9, 2020, 8:52 AM
 

If you don't want the RB to go out of bounds, first, you make sure to tell him exactly that and then you don't call a play that takes him anywhere near the sideline.

I completely agree with your statement about the refs.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Just playing devils advocate...this is a drawn out post..


Posted: Nov 9, 2020, 11:17 AM
 

folks didnt want a run and wanted a pass. If we pass, you risk interception or incompletion and stopping the clock. You have to do something and I think the swing pass on 3rd to ETN was a very effective play call bc of this:

- they are sitting back off a bit bc its 3rd and long.
- ETN is you best guy who can get the 1st down on his own
- its ta very completable and safe pass to make in space

You have to empower the players to make good decisions and it was just a mishap on ETN trying to make the play. It happened unfortunately at the worst possible time. Would have been better to the wide side of the field.

Given how well we had thrown the ball, I think you have to run on first to get the clock rolling and force one burned TO. On second you spread it out and throw it...maybe even the swing to ETN...force 3rd and medium at worst, force them to use another TO and play 3rd down accordingly. Which in that situation, one TO isn't all that valuable and you chance it throwing the ball....which is our best play.

I could live with trying for the 1st down. Im sure the coaches wish they had that 2nd down call back.


Charleston’s late hit doesn’t allow for a passing grade***

[2]
Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 7:42 PM
 



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Re: Charleston’s late hit doesn’t allow for a passing grade***


Posted: Nov 9, 2020, 8:17 AM
 

Agreed. That hit likely cost us the game. Had he not done it, ND had a holding call on that play which would have set up a 2nd and 20+ in OT. Instead they got an auto first down. Big play.


The late hit and getting completely lost on pass protection***


Posted: Nov 9, 2020, 8:48 AM
 



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Re: TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame

[2]
Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 8:17 PM
 

DJ struggling to find comfort level in his running game? I think thats what I read.
What I noticed is he "seems" to have a slow first step.
I may be way off here. Just an observation on my part.

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Re: TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame


Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 8:28 PM
 

Regarding defense, the TFLs and sacks have got to be way down compared to recent seasons. The safeties just seem slower than guys we’ve come accustomed to (eg Green, Kearse, Muse, etc). No make up speed after making a mistake in coverage. Similar for the LBs as compared to O’Daniel, Simmons so having Mike Jones injured has really hurt team speed.


Re: TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame

[2]
Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 8:31 PM
 

If Venables, Charleston and Turner were our top defenders on Saturday, no wonder we got beat. These guys are future coaches -- hard workers but not an NFL sniff in the bunch.

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Re: TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame

[1]
Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 8:38 PM
 

Wow. ETN losing out to the OL with grades this week.

Need to work a short pass game until it hurts before the run game will open up. Opposing DCs have our offense dialed in to stop the run... it's just that many have to compete with inferior talent.


Re: TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame

[2]
Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 9:43 PM
 

I can't believe what I am reading from these posts. We have become spoiled with success. Remember how close our games where in 2016 when we won the National Championship. We lost a game that year to Pitt. We had 580 yards passing and 50 yards rushing.


Re: TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame

[2]
Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 10:09 PM
 

We batted 1000. Offense sucked. Defense sucked. Special teams sucked. Play calling sucked.
Team was not ready to play. The chrome domes studied football this week. Tigers too busy in social activism.


Re: TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame


Posted: Nov 8, 2020, 10:09 PM
 

We batted 1000. Offense sucked. Defense sucked. Special teams sucked. Play calling sucked.
Team was not ready to play. The chrome domes studied football this week. Tigers too busy in social activism.


Interior OL has been poor all season. On Defense...

[1]
Posted: Nov 9, 2020, 11:46 AM
 

Tyler Davis and Skalski apparently are more detrimental to our success than Trevor Lawrence. How is it that Davis is that much better than every other DT we have. Our DE's have been a disappointment all season. The DL has struggled to get to the QB, against a decent OL. The times of us getting good pressure with 4 down lineman, is scarce this season. Another problem is missed tackles. I've seen players take bad angles and whiff on tackles they should have made. I know BV knows what he's doing but everytime I see a 3 man front i cringe. Another thing is 3rd and long. I'd rather see our D in 3rd and 1 than 3rd and 13.



@

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Re: TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame


Posted: Nov 9, 2020, 12:30 PM
 

Many, many good points here.

I doubt the coaches will see this or care, but we really need to throw the ball over the top from time to time. There were way too many short, over the middle incomplete passes where there were 7 or more blue jerseys in the frame at the time of the incompletion.

Without the over the top passes, the outside screen game is shut down by corners pressing.

With no throws over the top, the safeties creep up, which clogs up the short middle routes, and they can provide run support. This same congestion clogs up the middle of the field and shuts down any inside run game for ETN.

We used to do a much better job spreading the field. I know we are banged up at WR, but we have to throw the ball down the field more to open things up...even if you throw the ball out of bounds or out of reach.

Also, I'm a little surprised at Turners' good grade with his bad angle and miss on the first 65 yard ND run play for a TD. He has to play better than that.

There were NO offensive holding calls on either team. Remember the last time that happened? Last year's natty against LSU. The zebras effectively negated our defensive line advantage.


Re: TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame

[1]
Posted: Nov 9, 2020, 1:04 PM
 

Honestly, who is grading the defense, Brent? How could anyone keep a serious face and say that Jake Venables graded the highest two games in a row? Without Baylon Spector, I can’t imagine what we would have looked like in Skalski’s stead these past few games. Jake Venables is consistently out-of-position, caught on his heels, crashing the wrong gap, or locking on the wrong assignment. He had 3 tackles. Baylon had 7 solo tackles, 2 TFL, a pass deflected and a QB hurry. Have we all taken crazy pills? I’m not trying to be contentious; I’m genuinely confused. The drop off from Skalski to Venables has been tremendous and apparent.


Re: TNET: Inside Look: Grading Clemson versus Notre Dame

[1]
Posted: Nov 9, 2020, 1:56 PM
 

Objectively watch the following plays by Jake Venables and tell me that you honestly believe he graded the best against the run, or graded well at all for that matter.

https://youtu.be/4TUFo-SPz5Y

1:10 - DL crashes right, Baylon steps up first to take on the blocker, Jake (per usual), fails to move horizontally, gets caught inside, TD Notre Dame (2nd play of the game)

3:04 - Jake gets caught bouncing around on weak side, is too slow to move horizontally to spy Book.

3:16 - blitzes wrong A gap

4:09 - drops into coverage like we’re in prevent defense, another 8 yard run by Book

6:48 - what the heck is he doing? He literally just jogs around and never makes contact. Skalski would have destroyed this kid at the 31 yard line.

7:08 - arm tackle, gain of 5 yards instead of 0

8:57 - another failed spy on Book, gain of 6

9:06 - turns his back and runs full speed into the end zone, missed assignment, gain of 9

10:05 - overpursues the blitz, another QB draw for 9 yards

10:13 - Jake is blocked into next century, opens a 10ft hole, first down ND

10:37 - again, runs 100mph with his back turned into coverage, never looks for the ball, another QB draw for 6

14:31 - swallowed up in the middle, can’t shed blocker, gain of 7 yards in the red zone

14:39 - his best play of the game and only successful spy on Book

15:27 - over-pursues and jogs to get back

21:45 - again, cannot shed a block to save his life, HUGE gain for Book right up the middle

22:48 - loses his assignment, again, gets caught 5 yards back from where he should be, TD Notre Dame

24:52 - we never had a chance of him plugging this hole.

26:30 - look at the lack of effort here please. He not only crashes the wrong gap, but just hops around, turns his back, no sense of urgency. TD Notre Dame.

Are we watching the same games??? Call a spade a #### spade! His effort and play compared to Skalski & Spector are night and day. It’s not even close.


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