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Head Coach [758]
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Should we have expected more in basketball this season?
Mar 25, 2017, 2:20 PM
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Our average recruiting rankings over the last 4 years are 13th in the ACC. Our average finish in the ACC over the last for years has been 9th. I am not advocating for BB at all, I am ready for change, but why did we expect to go to the NCAA tourney this year? With the talent we have on this team that was a completely unrealistic expectation.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Should we have expected more in basketball this season?
Mar 25, 2017, 2:30 PM
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What were we told by the basketball people last year? JB was back for his senior year. Weren't we told that those transfers would make this team deeper and a lot better? Wasn't this supposed to be Brownells best team? What happened? This team badly underachieved especially when they got in conference play. The excuse after the season was that the ACC was super tough. Their performances in the NCAA tournament proved how badly the ACC was overrated.
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All-TigerNet [14471]
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Re: Should we have expected more in basketball this season?
Mar 25, 2017, 2:32 PM
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groundhog day every day in here
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110%er [7718]
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Re: Should we have expected more in basketball this season?
Mar 25, 2017, 3:04 PM
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yep 
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Head Coach [758]
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That is what we were told, but was that realistic?!
Mar 25, 2017, 2:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Should we have expected more in basketball this season? ] |
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I am not sure that it was. When you look at it for what it was, I just don't see it. We are stuck with Brad. I wanted him gone too, but you know what, he isn't. This is his best class yet. 7th in the ACC. Now that the dust is clearing and I have no choice, I am interested to see what brad will do with three VETERAN former top 100 recruits; Grantham, Mitchell, Thomas. Reed should improve his decision making. I have a strange feeling that we could all be eating our words next year.
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All-In [28802]
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Yes, it was very realistic
Mar 25, 2017, 3:06 PM
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That projection was based on how we did last year, the fact that we were returning our most important pieces, and that we were adding some top flight talent through transfers.
You keep talking about recruiting class rankings like Brownell's teams haven't routinely outperformed recruiting rankings. You also aren't factoring in the transfers to recruiting rankings, or the fact that we has a 1st team All-ACC player who was only a 3-star out of HS.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Head Coach [758]
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Blossomgame was a 4 star
Mar 25, 2017, 3:28 PM
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top 100 player.He was not some mid level talent out of HS.
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All-In [28802]
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Most had him just outside the top 100
Mar 25, 2017, 4:47 PM
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He was relatively highly recruited, but not a 4-star by Rivals or Scout. Only ESPN had him as a 4-star inside the top 100.
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Orange Blooded [2332]
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Re: That is what we were told, but was that realistic?!
Mar 25, 2017, 3:17 PM
[ in reply to That is what we were told, but was that realistic?! ] |
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Despite what Brownell told fans at 2016 "prowl and growl" meetings, NCAA expectations, I knew something was off chemistry wise by the close of December 2016. Grantham never played as he was capable beyond decent defense and his offense was really needed to take pressure off of Blassingame inside. Brad lost his team after the increasing number of close losses and we tried hard but never recovered. Knowing we had enough potential talent to make a run was quite frustrating.
Brownell has one more shot and he knows it. Fans need to politely, but firmly speak up when possible so DRad readily understands our desire for a better outcome next season or else. While football is reaching new highs there is no long term reason why basketball can't move in a more productive manner as well.
I and many others are tired of excuses.
Go Tigers!
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: That is what we were told, but was that realistic?!
Mar 25, 2017, 3:24 PM
[ in reply to That is what we were told, but was that realistic?! ] |
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Those three are good players. Can the incoming freshmen play above their heads next year? Will Grantham become a force or keep underperforming? Will the reserves become major players? Needless to say, it's make or break for this staff next year.
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1st Rounder [648]
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110%er [6681]
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With Bloss coming back, and BB telling us it was his best
Mar 25, 2017, 3:04 PM
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team yet! YES!
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All-In [28802]
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We had a much better team on paper than that
Mar 25, 2017, 3:04 PM
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Expectations were high because we had a lot of good talent- mostly talent acquired through transfers- added to a 1st team All-ACC player, and our team last year was just a few games short of making the tournament. This team, on paper, looked like a team that should've won more than 20 games. But they lacked leadership, and I think once they lost a couple close games they lost confidence that they'd win at the end.
The stuff you cited really didn't have much to do with realistic expectations for this year.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: We had a much better team on paper than that
Mar 25, 2017, 3:26 PM
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If we keep setting the bar so low for Clemson basketball, we will never get better or strive to get better.
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All-In [48078]
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Yes*****
Mar 25, 2017, 3:05 PM
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CU Medallion [58415]
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I agree it's unrealistic with that level of talent. That's
Mar 25, 2017, 3:45 PM
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the problem - recruiting. I understand that it's been a little harder at Clemson than it has for many of our conference mates, but there's no excuse for it being that consistently bad. Also, even if Brownell has been burdened with a recruiting disadvantage, fair or not, he is now inextricably tied to to the program and how it is perceived by current recruits. There's no reason to expect it to get much better.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: I agree it's unrealistic with that level of talent. That's
Mar 25, 2017, 3:52 PM
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The new Littlejohn is in place. The basketball complex has been improved. The excuses for Brownell are gone. Can this staff now get in with the better players and sign them? Time will tell.
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1st Rounder [648]
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CU Guru [1950]
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Recruiting rankings are irrelevant when 4 out our 5 best
Mar 25, 2017, 4:26 PM
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players were transfers. Mitchell, Holmes, Reed, and Thomas all transferred in from other schools and weren't counted in the recruiting rankings. Mitchell and Thomas in particular were top-100 players nationally coming out of high school. Add those 4 to Blossomgame, who people thought was a preseason favorite (along with Grayson Allen) to be the conference player of the year, and you have a team that is certainly "more talented" than a team like Wake Forest who made the tournament or a team like Georgia Tech who finished ahead of us in the standings.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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Great point.***
Mar 25, 2017, 7:13 PM
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All-In [44050]
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Although this was perhaps Brownell's most talented team.
Mar 25, 2017, 4:44 PM
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It was still not nearly as talented as the teams in the top half of the conference. The preseason expectations from fans (myself included) were perhaps unfair. We were miffed that the media picked us 11th in the conference, but they were right.
We MUST get more talent, and that is happening. We have a really nice core of young players in Mitchell, Thomas, and Reed. The incoming class is Brad's best. But we need to continue improving recruiting with the hope that good coaching will not only make us competitive with the top teams, but able to beat them on a regular basis.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Although this was perhaps Brownell's most talented team.
Mar 25, 2017, 5:00 PM
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Judge we have been here before. The incoming class is Brads best but those kids offers were mostly mid major offers. You didn't see that many big time offers especially ACC offers. As you said ,it's a good but not great class. Brownell is on thin ice. He can't wait for these guys to become great players in two to three years. They have to become major contributors next year. How good are the current assistants in recruiting? Why aren't we going into the AAU leagues in Georgia and Florida? I know they are dirty. At this point our program is so mediocre that we are going to have to take some risks.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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With new assistants and losing Blossomgame, I'm afraid
Mar 25, 2017, 7:21 PM
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we will have to give him 10 more years. It's just ridiculous.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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But ACC teams that were less talented than us still made the
Mar 25, 2017, 7:25 PM
[ in reply to Although this was perhaps Brownell's most talented team. ] |
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dance. I agree, that recruiting must pick up a notch or two (likely better than the incoming class), AND we've got to do better with the talent we've got.
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Recruit [96]
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Re: But ACC teams that were less talented than us still made the
Mar 25, 2017, 7:28 PM
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people who assert 'recruiting must be pick up a notch' never explain how Brownell forces better players to come to Clemson. you act as though the players don't make that decision.
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Orange Blooded [2281]
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We lost to...
Mar 25, 2017, 5:40 PM
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a TERRIBLE Oklahoma team that went 11-20. We got blown away by 31 points at Louisville and 48 points at Florida State. We lost countless games where we had second half, even last minute leads, the absolute worst being the embarrassment at home of losing a 20 point second half lead at home to Oakland. YES, we have a right to expect more than those kind of performances out of our team.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: We lost to...
Mar 25, 2017, 5:56 PM
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Yes!
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Recruit [96]
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Re: We lost to...
Mar 25, 2017, 6:57 PM
[ in reply to We lost to... ] |
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> a TERRIBLE Oklahoma team that went 11-20. We got
> blown away by 31 points at Louisville and 48 points
> at Florida State. We lost countless games where we
> had second half, even last minute leads, the absolute
> worst being the embarrassment at home of losing a 20
> point second half lead at home to Oakland. YES, we
> have a right to expect more than those kind of
> performances out of our team.
it is easy to criticize
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: We lost to...
Mar 25, 2017, 7:10 PM
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Did we accept mediocrity when Leggett was underperforming as a coach? He was replaced by Monte Lee. Clemson baseball has never been stronger. No Clemson fans expect the basketball program to rival Duke or UNC. They are basketball schools. We do expect our program to win games against the rest of the league. Clemson basketball fans want more than mediocre seasons and expect more than one NCAA tournament berth in seven years. Brownell is a nice guy but not the coach to get it done at Clemson. He will get one more shot next year. He better quit being comfortable and get a sense of urgency.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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when you have a ton of really close games your record
Mar 25, 2017, 7:26 PM
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in those games should not start with a 0
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: when you have a ton of really close games your record
Mar 25, 2017, 7:38 PM
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There was late game coaching blunders by Brownell in several of those games. That has to change next season or Brownell will be the ex Clemson coach.
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Recruit [96]
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Re: when you have a ton of really close games your record
Mar 25, 2017, 7:55 PM
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Brownell wasn't on the court making the mistakes. get this, players make mistakes in games sometimes.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: when you have a ton of really close games your record
Mar 25, 2017, 8:41 PM
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Yes they do! I'm thinking about the times when the coaching staff didn't even know who was in the floor for the opposing team. If Brownell and this staff were great recruiters , you could look past the coaching mistakes. He is not a great game coach either. Whatever changes are made this year if any, this staff will be under tremendous pressure to win and win early. No bad out of conference record! No bad ACC record! NCAA tournament a must! The fans will not let Drad forget about this decision if the season goes bad.
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Recruit [96]
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Re: when you have a ton of really close games your record
Mar 25, 2017, 10:06 PM
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> Yes they do! I'm thinking about the times when the
> coaching staff didn't even know who was in the floor
> for the opposing team. If Brownell and this staff
> were great recruiters , you could look past the
> coaching mistakes. He is not a great game coach
> either. Whatever changes are made this year if any,
> this staff will be under tremendous pressure to win
> and win early. No bad out of conference record! No
> bad ACC record! NCAA tournament a must! The fans
> will not let Drad forget about this decision if the
> season goes bad.
you are not proving anything you say. all you do is whine. obviously he is a good coach if Clemson in games with teams that are better, bigger , faster players.
you are so uptight about sports. you can't articulate as to why Clemson should be awesome in basketball, what advantages does Clemson have over other programs. Basketball is much more difficult to recruit because even programs no in power 5 conferences can land good players.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: when you have a ton of really close games your record
Mar 25, 2017, 10:50 PM
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Aww the two Chicken trolls are arguing with each other
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Recruit [96]
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Re: when you have a ton of really close games your record
Mar 25, 2017, 11:07 PM
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nothing i've said indicates i'm a gamecock fan. you are so obsessed and paranoid about SC. all you think about is SC. they just another college, you don't have to talk and think about them all the time.
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Orange Blooded [4096]
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I was really hoping we scored more points on average per
Mar 25, 2017, 7:28 PM
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game then the other teams this year. But once again, foiled again ! Every year there is something ... perhaps next season we will have figured it out after almost a decade.
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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We have as much talent as the costs***
Mar 25, 2017, 10:01 PM
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: Should we have expected more in basketball this season?
Mar 26, 2017, 12:53 AM
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In hind sight we expected too much out of the transfers. It usually takes two years or more for any player, transfer or not to make their full impact on a team. Mitchell, Reed, and Thomas should all have better stats next year. DeVoe should as well. If Grantham can get his head together we could surprise many. I know I've said this type of thing before, but there's no reason it can't happen. We might as well hope for the best.
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