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Topic: What are reasonable expectations for our football program?
Replies: 30   Last Post: Oct 22, 2014 1:40 PM by: IPTAY FAMILY
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What are reasonable expectations for our football program?

[7]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:08 PM
 

Given our facilities, coaching staff salaries, and overall fan support... what results should we reasonably expect?

- Beating Syracuse, WF, etc every year
- Beating FSU at least 5 out of every 10 years (Dabo said this, not me :) )
- Beating SCAR 6-7 times every 10 years
- Playing in ACC championship gane 5 out of every 10 years (see FSU above)
- Winning ACC championship gane at least 3 times every 10 years
- Winning national championship once every 10 years
- Graduating players at a high level
- Not putting up with any discipline problems


Are these reasonable? Your thoughts?

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Re: What are reasonable expectations for our football program?

[2]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:17 PM
 

Completely reasonable,... these should be the base line expectations.


better seats cheaper price. .

[4]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:19 PM
 

That other stuff is probably important 2. Just not as high on my list.


^^^ Gets it! ^^^ Point 4U

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:56 PM
 

nm

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You forgot about

[4]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:20 PM
 

getting a better S&C coach

Whatever you do, always give 100%.....unless it's donating blood


In all honesty

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:36 PM
 

The conditioning is fine, better than nearly any and every one in fact, but the strength does have me concerned. The fact remains that our guys keep getting sprains and ligament tears, which are indicative in high volumes of uneven muscle development. That, and we still can't develop O-Linemen.

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Re: What are reasonable expectations for our football program?


Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:21 PM
 

no.

1 natty every 10 years would have us at 12 natty's by now. We have 1. FSU has 3. Most teams have 0. so no, these are not reasonable.

the fsu question is loaded. we have never done that before. So is it reasonable to expect us to gain ground on them after they just won another national title? is that reasonable? Think through that for a second. Danny Ford, lost at home to them and beat them on the road, but that team lost to Southern Miss the week before so was it really that big of a deal.

S.Carolina- we will win the majority of the time over the long haul. keep your panties on. that trend ends this year.

Is the program better than 5 years ago, 3 years ago, 15 years ago? those are the relevant questions.

3 acc's a decade. we just won our first in over 20.


didn't we beat FSU 5 outta 7 just a few years ago?

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:26 PM
 

not saying that should be expectation, but don't act like we this 2nd tier program when it comes to them

"I've been working since I was 15 continually until now. I worked 40 hours a week at 15, when it wasn't even legal for 15 year olds to work that many hours."


Fair points, just asking if reasonable.

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:27 PM
 

re: FSU -- we have done that before. We beat them 5 out of 7 years recently IIRC.

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Re: What are reasonable expectations for our football program?

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:27 PM
 

Shirley the 2nd best team in the ACC (best some years) should win a championship every few years.


Re: What are reasonable expectations for our football program?

[3]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:21 PM
 

provide me with quality entertainment.

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I can do that


Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:28 PM
 

and for a much lower price

;)

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Can we play on a channel other than ESPNU? Can that be a goal?

[2]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:22 PM
 

Glad to see us televised but good grief.

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Considering we have hardly met any of these expectations

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:23 PM
 

In the entire history of our program, I'm going to have to say no.


So we should never raise our level of expectations?

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:29 PM
 

OK gotcha

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i count 6 that have absolutely been met most of the time

[3]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:29 PM
 

what are you talking about?

"I've been working since I was 15 continually until now. I worked 40 hours a week at 15, when it wasn't even legal for 15 year olds to work that many hours."


I realize this is about football, but any chance

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:27 PM
 

we get FIRE JACK on this list?

asking for a friend.

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Re: What are reasonable expectations for our football program?


Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:29 PM
 

I think what you listed should be the goal of the program, not the expectation.

Big difference.


So what should the expectation be?***


Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:31 PM
 



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You lost over half the bored

[2]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:32 PM
 

with "reasonable"!!

HTH

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Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


Surprised you were able to hang on


Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:33 PM
 

;)

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Actually we have met some goals...

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:35 PM
 

We're #1 in recycling, and we've got that going for us. Good to be a green family.

We're finally getting the Oculus!

But we do need a Chic Fil A......

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Doesn't truly building an elite program take time?


Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:49 PM
 

Ask FSU. They were a girl's school and then turned to football in the 1950's. They hired Bowden in the early 70's and plodded along for a while and then really started to pick up steam. We clashed several times in the late 80's and early 90's before they joined our league and we were on the same track--since the late 1970's. We exchanged wins and loses. Then Ford was sacked by our admin and FSU grew into an ACC monster as the bottom fell out on most of what Ford had built since 1979. FSU went on for almost a decade as the premiere program in the county.

Now we are building again. Right now the train is still building momentum as we have reached heights not seen for 20+ years.

Point is that it took time for FSU to become a monster and it is taking time for us to become the BEAST of the ACC. We are, however, on track to doing so. Yes losing 5 times to your rivals sux but so did wide right for the Noles.


Message was edited by: AThomas®


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You started out bad...hopes=/= expectations. This is HOPES!


Posted: Oct 22, 2014 12:59 PM
 

Given our facilities, coaching staff salaries, and overall fan support... for what results should we reasonably expect hope?

- Beating Syracuse, WF, etc every year
- Beating FSU at least 5 out of every 10 years (Dabo said this, not me :) )
- Beating SCAR 6-7 times every 10 years
- Playing in ACC championship gane 5 out of every 10 years (see FSU above)
- Winning ACC championship gane at least 3 times every 10 years
- Winning national championship once every 10 years
- Graduating players at a high level
- Not putting up with any discipline problems


Are these reasonable? Your thoughts?

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So... what should the expectations be?***


Posted: Oct 22, 2014 1:32 PM
 



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90% yes....

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 1:02 PM
 

Yes we should try to achieve those things... That should be the standard. I would drop it a notch because there is the less than desirable recruiting class that can happen, the fluke loss to GT or some other team that we should beat that is going to sadly happen. I also don't see why we can't win the ACC 3-4 times every ten years. (If Miami, VT, GT, NCS, don't improve)

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bright colorful graphics, interesting stores, player stats,

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 1:05 PM
 

glossy pages


Re: bright colorful graphics, interesting stores, player stats,

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 1:34 PM
 

Best answer in the thread

Also add proper kerning and contrast for the typography.


- No "woohoo"***

[2]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 1:28 PM
 




Re: What are reasonable expectations for our football program?

[1]
Posted: Oct 22, 2014 1:35 PM
 

> Given our facilities, coaching staff salaries, and
> overall fan support... what results should we
> reasonably expect?
>
> - Beating Syracuse, WF, etc every year
> - Beating FSU at least 5 out of every 10 years (Dabo
> said this, not me :) )
> - Beating SCAR 6-7 times every 10 years
> - Playing in ACC championship gane 5 out of every 10
> years (see FSU above)
> - Winning ACC championship gane at least 3 times
> every 10 years
> - Winning national championship once every 10 years
> - Graduating players at a high level
> - Not putting up with any discipline problems
>
>
> Are these reasonable? Your thoughts?

1. We should beat Syracuse, Wake, and BC 9 times out of 10. You're occasionally going to run into one of those programs when they've got a really good coach (Wake under Jim Grobe in 2004, BC under Tom O'Brien with Matt Ryan in about the same time) and your own program is down...but sorry, sometimes the stars just align for those guys and you're going to get one of those programs in a peak. Duke is in a major peak right now under Cutcliffe, and they're taking out people left and right they have no business on paper beating.

2. I'd adjust this to about 4 out 10. FSU is closer to a much deeper talent pool than we are and is the one program in the ACC that can legitimately out-recruit Clemson, and they have similar facilities and a similar fan-base. If we do better than that, it's kudos to the Clemson coaching staff.

3. South Carolina has been held back by institutional incompetence and good-ole-boy politics that seems to have largely evaporated. South Carolina is dead-even with us in terms of facilities and has a better TV contract thanks to their links with the SEC. They're also in better position geographically to recruit - they're closer to the Low Counties, where there's a big pool of HS talent and no major university on hand to dip into it, and they're also closer to Charlotte and coastal NC than we are. They also play a tougher schedule, week in and week out, than we do. It means their win-loss record is not likely to be as good as ours year-to-year, but they're going to be used to playing faster, tougher teams, in tougher games, than Clemson is. (This MATTERS, by the way.) Against that, achieving "momentum" is going to be more difficult for them because it means in a bad year - which they're having right now - they can sink like a stone and lose 6-8 games faster than you can say "overscheduling". So basically when you add it up, achieving a .500 record against South Carolina is going to likely be the norm unless they just tank it again and get a bad coach post-Spurrier. THEY HAVE A BOATLOAD OF MONEY BECAUSE THEY NOW PLAY IN THE SEC. This buys good coaching, it buys exposure, it buys recruits. This is a huge advantage for them, like it or not.

4. Playing in the ACC title game 3 out of every 10 years, right now, looks likely. FSU is ahead of us and will remain so for the foreseeable future. Our conference just got much tougher with the addition of Louisville. You're going to get other programs having peak years from time to time. Unless there's some re-alignment (which I've heard is likely), right now 3 years out of 10 is probably going to be the norm.

5. I'd adjust that to about 2 out of 10 to outright win the ACC. Right now there's no power in the Coastal but several could emerge. Miami is stuck in neutral and has no facilities of their own since they became renters in the Dolphins stadium and lost the Orange Bowl...but they're still sitting in BY FAR the single most-impressive talent pool in the country...you can make a Top-25 program out of Miami high school recruits that The U doesn't offer. The fact that Miami is somehow not a perennial Top-10 program anymore shows you how anti-football current Miami prez Donna Shalala has been. VT is being held back by a stale coaching staff but that Tidewater region is loaded and VT is not far off from being a Clemson in terms of resources and fan base. UNC can be a power if they ever stop shooting themselves in the foot with silly NCAA infractions.

6. Winning the national title every 10 years? No way, no way. We've won once, and that was, what, 34 years ago? I'll agree we should do better than that but if you win once every twenty years you're doing well. There's 25 or so programs, nationally, that are as big or bigger than Clemson.

7 and 8: Graduating players? No discipline problems? I'm down with that. One advantage that Clemson has is its isolation. Sure, you can find drugs, girls, and problems anywhere...but you do have to work harder to find trouble at Clemson than you do other places. That tends to attract a culture of kids who are here for school and football, and it's not attractive to the likes of Stephen "Achilles" Garcia, who went to South Carolina because, in his own words, "they treat you like a God here." Dabo's done a very good job of embracing that aspect of Clemson, selling it to families, and it meshes well with Clemson's prevailing ethic anyhow.

Just my own take.


My take


Posted: Oct 22, 2014 1:40 PM
 

- Beating Syracuse, WF, etc every year -----Maybe not that specific. But not drop games that we shouldn't drop


- Beating FSU at least 5 out of every 10 years (Dabo said this, not me :) ) ----Sure. That would show that we are at the top and beating the top. Not many teams have a 50% winning over FSU. Might be ambitious, but we shouldn't feel that we can't beat them every time.


- Beating SCAR 6-7 times every 10 years ---- Yes. Goes back to not dropping games we shouldn't drop.


- Playing in ACC championship gane 5 out of every 10 years (see FSU above) ----50% seems high. Lets see if Louisville comes on strong before set that bar at half. But beating FSU 5 times probably gets us 5 trips to the ACCCG.


- Winning ACC championship gane at least 3 times every 10 years ---Does anyone have a 30% winning percentage of conference championships.


- Winning national championship once every 10 years ----I'd hate to get rid of a good coach every 10 years if we didn't win a championship. Lets see how the playoffs shape up. I'd say a finish no worse than 15-20 would be a good bar now.


- Graduating players at a high level ---thats the players choice. Recruit players that can handle the academics, give them resources to meet the requirements and get out of their way.


- Not putting up with any discipline problems ----see above. Thats their choice and it depends on what they do. Discipline should be a case by case basis.


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