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Hall of Famer [22388]
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As we pass 6 Million Covid cases and over 183,000 dead in
Sep 1, 2020, 1:31 PM
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the US...
1. We currently rank 10th in the world with 18,675 Covid cases per million people.
2. Italy is currently ranked 60th. France is 63rd. Germany is 83rd. Iraq is 49th. Canada is 76th.
3. The US is currently ranked 11th in deaths per million people.
4. The US is ranked 18th in tests per million.
Denmark, by contrast, is ranked 13th in testing per million(more than we do), but 82nd in cases and 55th in deaths.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Don’t forget 4% of the world’s population
Sep 1, 2020, 1:35 PM
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Hall of Famer [22388]
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So we don't think you're lying, could you point out the
Sep 1, 2020, 1:43 PM
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"many misleading ways" those facts were presented?
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All-In [43728]
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No, no. He's right, he just left off part of it.
Sep 1, 2020, 1:47 PM
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We are 4% of the world's population. He left off the fact that we've accounted for 21% of the world's covid deaths though.
Not sure why he brought Biden into it. LOL j/k, we all know.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: No, no. He's right, he just left off part of it.
Sep 1, 2020, 4:02 PM
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All-In [46825]
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Re: No, no. He's right, he just left off part of it.
Sep 2, 2020, 10:35 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Hall of Famer [22388]
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So, you got nothing.
Sep 1, 2020, 1:55 PM
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We knew that.
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Heisman Winner [119713]
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So much Moran.....***
Sep 1, 2020, 2:58 PM
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All-TigerNet [14470]
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Re: So, you got nothing.
Sep 1, 2020, 4:58 PM
[ in reply to So, you got nothing. ] |
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no matter what stats you spit out you are voting for a pedophile with dementia for gods sake that is being run by bernie sanders. now talk about scary.
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Hall of Famer [22388]
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Did you just have a stroke?
Sep 1, 2020, 7:31 PM
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You're sounding like Trump post strokes.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: So we don't think you're lying, could you point out the
Sep 1, 2020, 2:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: So we don't think you're lying, could you point out the ] |
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T3,
1. I would argue that hospitalizations per million would be a more accurate measure of the efficacy of the political response to the virus. President Trump shouldn't get much credit because our medical experts have responded well to the evolving situation.
2. Every stat mentioned was based on per capita numbers - so apples to apples. The only person to quote statistics in any other format is you.
3. I think it is misleading to lump all of Europe together when assessing political response to the virus. A significant number of European countries have responded more effectively than we have and several have not.
4. Can we ever learn to distinguish facts from talking points ?? And reality from opinion ??
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: So we don't think you're lying, could you point out the
Sep 1, 2020, 2:14 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: So we don't think you're lying, could you point out the
Sep 2, 2020, 10:17 AM
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Here is the quote from your post to which I am referring
You’re also comparing Denmark, a country with the population of SC, I testing to the US with 330 million.
That is NOT a per capita comparison whereas the OP was.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: So we don't think you're lying, could you point out the
Sep 2, 2020, 10:37 AM
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All-In [31499]
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Re: As we pass 6 Million Covid cases and over 183,000 dead in
Sep 1, 2020, 1:43 PM
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This is what it looks like when there is no semblance of an organized national strategy. The decisions about how to safely open a business have been left to the individual high school dropout managing the Burger King. Meanwhile a significant portion of the country is out of work, 1 in 6 small businesses have closed, and the consequences of this “well it’s not not my fault” free-for-all pandemic plan from the federal government have contributed massively to civil unrest.
There is no consistent messaging, there is no plan, there is no leadership.When he did step in front of a camera he told us to inject UV light and gargle lysol. It’s only deflection and diversion from a president who hears 180k dead Americans and only thinks about how it will make him look on cable news.
I don’t know if Biden will be a good president, but it has to be better than the vacuous shitforbrains morally bankrupt 4chan troll president we have now.
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Hall of Famer [22388]
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Well said!
Sep 1, 2020, 1:54 PM
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Commercial and residential foreclosure are going up dramatically over the next few months.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Think about it...
Sep 1, 2020, 1:48 PM
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more lives this year than any other year for the past 100 years
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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If we ever needed proof that ideology determines truth,
Sep 1, 2020, 1:52 PM
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this thread, and covid generally, is it.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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That sucks.
Sep 1, 2020, 1:48 PM
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Wait until you review our ranking in education.
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All-In [31896]
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Might be related ?!?***
Sep 1, 2020, 2:02 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97727]
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Be patient. Europe is coming around.
Sep 1, 2020, 2:04 PM
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What appears to be a bad start is actually, long term, going to put us in better shape than many other places. We finally have reached a point where we can keep it somewhat controlled and hospitals from overflowing. Mainly due to mask mandates.
Herd immunity is a bad idea. Shutting down is a bad idea. Middle ground is best here and we seem to be finding it. But we've done it the hard way, that's for sure. Not from competent leadership.
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Hall of Famer [22388]
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With 6 millions cases in a population of 330 million, there
Sep 1, 2020, 2:09 PM
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is a lot of kindling left to burn.
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Oculus Spirit [97727]
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Yep. Years worth. Or go back to normal and get it over
Sep 1, 2020, 2:21 PM
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with. Either way, the deaths will happen. The bright side is we have far, FAR more than 6 million cases. 10 million is a pretty safe bet. Probably closer to 20 million.
The pathology of covid is sinister, from what it appears. Antibodies are weak or not long lasting for mild to moderate cases. Severity largely depends on exposure levels. Some people are barely exposed, have mild symptoms, but will not have lasting immunity. Others will get someone sneezing in their face, and bewm, ICU. Any vaccine will likely be similar in effectiveness to the flu vaccine. Something that is not long lasting, and must be re-administered. Over time, years, people get exposed again and again and develop a strong immunity to it and in 10-20 years, it's just like the flu, maybe even less severe.
Very different from the Spanish Flu and other pandemics. More akin to the plague, but much less deadly.
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Hall of Famer [22388]
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Given enough time, we can develop more effective treatments
Sep 1, 2020, 2:25 PM
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tools, and possibly a vaccine. That's why the more we can delay people getting it, the better their chances of survival.
That is why we don't want to virus to race through the population now.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Good points. Will say only that the actual number of cases
Sep 1, 2020, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to Yep. Years worth. Or go back to normal and get it over ] |
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is more than you mention, I think. Not long ago even the cdc conceded that the actual number of cases was 10 to 15 times the confirmed number. Stanford says it could be as high as 20X, and since March their estimates have proven more accurate than cdc. How many is still hard to say, but as you point out it is way more than 60 million.
At some point the confirmed cases will draw closer to the actual as more people are tested, but with the low testing numbers the actual cases has to be growing faster still than the confirmed number.
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Oculus Spirit [97727]
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Well, it goes back to that sinister pathology I mentioned
Sep 1, 2020, 3:03 PM
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What we record as "positive cases" are people who have the genetic markers for covid, as few as 30 molecules, in their nose. Ok, so you're positive. Now you may have 25,000 particles in your nose, or 35. If the former, you will get very sick, even if "healthy", if the later, you may not even know you have it. And if you have a very minimal exposure, and are healthy, you may make some, or hardly any antibodies. If you're younger, you may not even know you have it. BUT, it is very likely to recur again and again. As long as the exposure is minimal and you're healthy, it may never be a big deal for you. Older, less healthy, higher exposure, you get very sick.
But here's the real kicker. It is very easy to estimate infections. We do it all the time with the flu. We only run maybe 10-15K flu tests similar to the millions we run for covid, with the flu every year. We take that data, and estimate total infections. Much like Stanford and the CDC claim. However, WHERE are the random studies? It is not hard to do them. We're exceedingly good at doing them. Yet here we are testing millions for covid, and yet not conducting any large, meaningful randomized testing. Some cities have done it with antibodies, and that showed levels not too much higher than infection rates. Nothing along the lines of 20X. And you don't see these random tests being done in other countries either. France, England, Germany, they're all also VERY experienced with random testing of populations to gain insight on pathogens in the community. Yet where are their studies? DHEC says the factor is 6-7X. CDC says whatever. Stanford says something totally different. We're in lock step, the world over, doing randomized studies of the flu.
I'd wager it has been done. And the results were not good. Sweden backed off their herd immunity goal right after they did randomized testing. Caused a major ruckus over there. They're nowhere near it. The random testing numbers that have been released from Europe are disheartening.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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That is a comprehensive answer, to the degree that,
Sep 1, 2020, 9:28 PM
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paradoxically, it shows how difficult it is to get non-biased information. Not at all saying you are biased - just the opposite - so stay with me. Any article written, by, say, CNN will speak of Sweden in derisive terms, and have many graphs showing why they do so. Read from another source, one gets another angle, also claiming to be only 'fact based'.
But what one can't overlook is the fact that places like NY state and Sweden that had early high counts are now experiencing almost nothing. One can define 'herd immunity' by a lab standard and make the case that Sweden has or has not reached it, but still on the table is that fat "no new cases and deaths" (almost) staring at you. So, what is causing that?
Turns out that those docs who early on were saying herd immunity with covid might be reached with a little as 20% exposure might be right. Here is an article that seems to not have an ax to grind, and looks at those factors.
https://reason.com/2020/08/14/did-sweden-accidentally-blunder-into-covid-19-herd-immunity/
And of course one has to consider the past 6 weeks in the US. Hospitalizations and deaths are declining dramatically, and unless there is a turnaround, at current trends we'll be at benign levels in another month. We are at half the hospitalizations from 6 weeks ago, and falling fast, and deaths will soon be there. Unless someone convinces me otherwise, confirmed cases is, to me, not as important as those two because we already know the actual cases is way above the confirmed anyway, and it is a number determined by the number of tests as much as the number of cases.
So, there might be some really good news there for people who are brave enough to look at it..
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Oculus Spirit [97727]
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Fine. So sue me.......
Sep 1, 2020, 3:03 PM
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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LOL. Are you ignorant or just pretending? Everyone
Sep 1, 2020, 2:22 PM
[ in reply to With 6 millions cases in a population of 330 million, there ] |
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knows, present company excluded, that the actual number of total cases is somewhere between 10 and 20 times the confirmed number: we have had between 60 and 120 million cases. (See cdc, Stanford, etc for random test data.) If 6 million scares you, you'll spend tonight under the bed.
Meanwhile, our hospitalizations and fatalities are dropping dramatically, and have been for a while. Hospitalizations are half what they were 6 weeks ago, deaths will soon be there. Confirmed cases will fluctuate as tests become cheaper and faster, but even as tests are rising the numbers confirmed is falling, though as I said - and is apparently difficult for some to understand - we are so far beyond the confirmed number as to make it meaningless.
The Euros you love, except for Sweden you hate, are meanwhile fighting the initial wave they thought they could run and hide from, but can't, so are rebranding it as a second wave, which it is not. Sweden is pretty much over it, which is why you hate them.
So, miserable as that makes you, there is the good news.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Be patient. Europe is coming around.
Sep 1, 2020, 2:13 PM
[ in reply to Be patient. Europe is coming around. ] |
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Tiggity,
One of the underlying premises of democracy is that the best solutions are usually found in the middle - the sweet spot.
I don't know where our democracy will end up if we don't all remember that and start talking (as opposed to screaming) to each other.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Oculus Spirit [97727]
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That was low-hanging fruit.***
Sep 1, 2020, 2:24 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Oculus Spirit [97727]
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Mostly the former.
Sep 1, 2020, 2:41 PM
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He ran out of the latter first as he has an infinite supply of the first. War or...well...a pandemic. Luck ran out there. Right on the issues, wrong on the leadership. It happens. Just usually not in the US. When he's forced, he folds. Then the BS doesn't work, and luck runs out I guess.
Also doesn't mean I'm suddenly a liberal or support Biden because he's a better leader but worse on the issues. Just meh. Kinda like a great football coach. Wins lots of nattys. Has a drinking problem and an affinity for hookers and blow. So, do you keep him on the payroll and winning games, or can him knowing your team will suck?
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All-In [49046]
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Well, I mean, he definitely has both...
Sep 1, 2020, 2:43 PM
[ in reply to Two things don't hold out in life. ] |
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It's pretty lucky to be born to a very wealthy dad. It's very lucky to be able to avoid the draft. It's very lucky to have enough money handed to you that you can pretty much fail your way to success. It's pretty lucky that you happen to run for president on the crazy train platform in a year when there are no other inspiring candidates. It's pretty lucky that just enough of them insist on staying in the race to divide the traditional vote and let you keep winning primaries with your crazy town supporters. It's pretty lucky that the evangelical base of the republican party decides to throw character out the window as a qualification just in time for you to run and further chooses to ignore the once or twice you slipped up and admitted you don't know God (Sees no need to ask for forgiveness) and you aren't really a practicing Christian (you know i go to Church sometime and I have my little wine and my little cracker).
It's pretty lucky that the democrats shitcan the guy that all the young voters like and nominate the most polarizing candidate in forever and a day to run against you. It's pretty lucky that she never really considers you a serious threat to her ascension to power. It's pretty lucky that no one who supports you holds you to account for any of the transgressions that you yourself and all your core supporters complained about with your predecessor.
All those things are pretty lucky. And I think the one thing we may have all accepted is that man has truckloads of ######## to go around.
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Lot o points [181005]
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Don't forget, we're fat and out of shape.***
Sep 1, 2020, 2:06 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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So you're taking over picking on me?
Sep 1, 2020, 2:46 PM
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Obed and Franc didn't do a good job yesterday or what?
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Legend [15216]
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I don't understand how anyone could possibly think that
Sep 1, 2020, 2:16 PM
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we don't test enough. I don't care where we rank in testing, everyone and their brother are getting tested for this stuff. It's insane to me.
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Hall of Famer [22388]
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Don't let facts get in the way of your faith that you
Sep 1, 2020, 2:18 PM
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know better.
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Legend [15216]
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I'm not saying I know better. I'm just saying I know so
Sep 1, 2020, 3:36 PM
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many people who have gotten tested several times for all sorts of reasons...very few of which is due to sickness.
It just seems like we are testing everyone just for the fun of it. It blows my mind that we should test more.
I'm not saying we shouldn't. I'm just saying I have no idea what we would actually gain by more testing. It seems impossible.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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All-In [26512]
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Wow. You’re saying 0.05% of the US
Sep 1, 2020, 2:21 PM
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Population has died from something other than assault rifles and climate change?
Sobering
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All-In [43728]
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You could minimize 180,000 deaths like that. You could also
Sep 1, 2020, 2:32 PM
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remember the oh say 3500 people that died 9/11. Still remember? Remember how awful and tragic that was?
Imagine it happening every single day for 50 straight days. Still not the same number of deaths.
But hey, according to your logic 9/11 was only .00001% of the US population that died from something other than assault rifles and climate change. Probably equally as sobering, eh?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: You could minimize 180,000 deaths like that. You could also
Sep 1, 2020, 3:40 PM
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All-In [43728]
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Sport, the flu is around. I'm aware of that.
Sep 1, 2020, 4:02 PM
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Covid is new. And incremental to the flu. And no one dies from the flu. Nor from covid. Both exacerbate other issues. And excess deaths are 180k in 2020 over 2019. You know these things though, I'm sure of it.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Sport, the flu is around. I'm aware of that.
Sep 1, 2020, 4:04 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97727]
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All-In [26512]
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Dang those Chinese and their
Sep 1, 2020, 2:50 PM
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Biological weapons
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Hall of Famer [22388]
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and Trump
Sep 1, 2020, 3:59 PM
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being a narcissistic prick.
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Lot o points [155929]
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110%er [5679]
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Re: As we pass 6 Million Covid cases and over 183,000 dead in
Sep 1, 2020, 8:52 PM
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You guys can toss these stats back and forth like a hot potato all day, but it does not change the fact that:
1. "the data" is inaccurate - we all know that.
2. The data overstates cases, deaths, and hospitalizations - we all know that.
3. Too many govies working in data centers are stupid, don't know math, and are clueless to view data reports with any scrutiny - we all know that. [probably common core, but that's another thread]
4. The moral-less left has proven they will make up fake data and alter data to suit their needs - we all know that.
The end result is you are wasting time talking about stats because the leftists are not to be trusted and many of them are in positions to alter real data.
How about the Chinese COVID data? Very accurate I am sure. Thanks to the left, the USA is inching closer and closer to that type of environment where a one-party (democrat) corrupt government rules in tyranny.
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