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Topic: Part of the reason computers hate us is because of
Replies: 23   Last Post: Nov 16, 2012 2:44 PM by: silvavocati
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Part of the reason computers hate us is because of

[3]
Posted: Nov 14, 2012 5:08 PM
 

political correctness. In college football, running up the score is frowned upon. So Computer rankings are forced, by the BCS, to remove margin of victory from their formulas. Margin of victory would help offset a crappy strength of schedule, and all the computer rankings say their most accurate predictors DO INCLUDE scoring margin factored in.

So the real enemy to Clemson's BCS rank isn't necessarily the computers... its the humans and their political correctness. NCAA pansies are scared that feelings will be hurt by even more monster blowouts. Personally I think College football would be better if teams were not scared of running up the score. I say play as hard as you want the whole game. It should be up to the other team to stop you.

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Re: Part of the reason computers hate us is because of


Posted: Nov 14, 2012 5:17 PM
 

are you suggesting the computers should 'focus' on teams that run up the score?


No, I am suggesting that computers should not pretend that

[1]
Posted: Nov 14, 2012 5:21 PM
 

scoring margin doesn't exist.

To the BCS version of computers, beating Duke by 1 is the exact same as beating them by 30. To me, a human, that doesn't make sense.

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Re: No, I am suggesting that computers should not pretend that

[1]
Posted: Nov 14, 2012 6:47 PM
 

could the fact that our signature win is against ball state and our sos is so low have something to do with it?


You totally missed the entire point of my original post.***


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 10:17 AM
 



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I'll tell you what a


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 5:12 PM
 

50% pulse, and saying our signature win is against Ball St. suggests. I understand the ACC is way down, but all we can do is play the schedule we have. We haven't played down to lesser competition, much less gotten blown out 33-11 this year.

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Actually, one of the six computers does take it into account


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 10:51 AM
 

but only one of them.

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Which one?***


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 2:15 PM
 



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Sagarin's I believe***


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 2:58 PM
 



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That's what I thought. Sagarins uses the ELO Chess version


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 6:34 PM
 

for the BCS. None of the BCS computers are allowed to factor in scoring margin. It's a specific requirement.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt12.htm

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This has been an issue since basically the beginning of


Posted: Nov 14, 2012 6:47 PM
 

college football. Even back in 1916, when the newspapers began assigning a great value to scoring margins in their polls, it angered John Heisman. It was for this reason John Heisman had his Georgia Tech team play and beat a Cumberland team 222-0...a Cumberland school that no longer even had a football team.


another reason not to ruts, we have as 8 game conf. schedule


Posted: Nov 14, 2012 6:55 PM
 

and play usuc every year. those same teams might just be a bit better in a year or three , and you will have to face them,again every year except for a couple rotaters. yes, in most cases a lot of the plyers will be different, but the coaching remains somewhat the same, and they will remember. no, they might not have the horses to beat you even then, but they can get their players to play just a little bit on the trashy side, if you know what i mean. ( if not see n.o. saints troubles )

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But if RUTS loses its taboo, players will blame themselves.


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 10:16 AM
 

Which is the correct attitude. Playing your best should never be considered unethical.

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Re: But if RUTS loses its taboo, players will blame themselves.


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 5:33 PM
 

i agree wholeheartedly. problem is, a lot of coaches and players don't treat better talent/coaching as a good enough reason to not play dirty if they have been humiliated.

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There is only one reason..

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2012 10:37 AM
 

Make no mistake. The ACC has done itself absolutely no favors this season.

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I think there is a happy "medium" that should be used


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 3:11 PM
 

I believe most if not all of the computer rankings can predict the margin of victory between two teams.

If the actual margin is a lot less than the predicted margin (let's say 50% or less than predicted) the winning team should get less credit for winning. This would mean correctly penalizing UF for barely beating LA-Lafayette and ND for Pittsburgh - which is exactly what human pollsters tend to do.

The same should be true the other way but maybe by a smaller % to be politically correct. If the winning team wins by 25% or more than the predicted margin they should get more credit in the formula.


They don't take into account margin of victory


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 3:13 PM
 

because then you have a situtation where it looks like team A is better than team B because this season they outscored their opponents by 95 points, but team B only outscored their opponents by 90 points. What's the difference?

Yes, there is a big difference between beating a team by 50 and beating a team by 2. It's the middle ground where it gets really fishy.

I think you're way off on this political correctness conspiracy. No one is penalizing us, or Oregon, or anyone, for winning by 30 points.


They are penalizing us for NOT acknowledging blowouts.


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 6:38 PM
 

My whole point was that the computer rankings are forced to eliminate scoring margin to limit RUTS. The BCS has made this clear. That is political correctness.

Again, if we beat Duke by 30 and it gets scored the same as beating Duke by 2, then it isn't really judging reality, its judging partial reality.

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computers aren't people


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 4:43 PM
 

but people who program them might make them strongly dislike you, hate is such a strong word ;) :-D


Re: Part of the reason computers hate us is because of


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 7:48 PM
 

I think everyone is missing the point!! The coaches poll and usa today poll is the human factor which is based off of winning margins and how well your team looks!! The computers are for a unbiased sos and thats it! As bad as it sucks that is how it works!! Its based on a you beat who and they be who type equation. I think the other 2 polls, do just as well on sos and because they know who you bet and can still factor in the eye test as well!! Its a crappy system.


But the computers ARE biased towards schedule without regard


Posted: Nov 16, 2012 9:51 AM
 

to how people perform against that schedule.

That is why scoring margin is necessary to get a more accurate picture of how good teams are.

The current system is a scam which favors certain conferences. Adding scoring margin would go a long way to fix that.

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Name one game where we have ran up the score (yet)


Posted: Nov 15, 2012 7:50 PM
 

We have blownout teams, but have not ran up the score. I think they should include the margin but cap it at 28.

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I wasn't saying that we RUTS. I'm saying RUTS is the reason


Posted: Nov 16, 2012 9:49 AM
 

that scoring margin doesn't get factored in to computer rankings, even though scoring margin makes more a much more accurate ranking.

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You've inspired me to write a piece


Posted: Nov 16, 2012 2:44 PM
 

on computers "hating" people. A re-make of 2001, Space Odyssey, where Hal the computer let's Dave the astronaut die because he believes Dave will come back in and disconnect him. Only the scene is modified so that Hal "hates" a football team, Clemson, and has to let it go to its BCS death...


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