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Topic: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....
Replies: 27   Last Post: Sep 17, 2018 8:42 AM by: Orange Lightning
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Replies: 27  

Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....

[2]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 12:31 AM
 

Ok, so I have wanted to ask this question about our offensive reqression, regurgitated responses don't count, our future offensive plays surrounding our talented offensive players. Two years ago Gallman was a force and he found yards most plays, did matter if he was boxed or pitched too! Leggett was always contributing. Before Leggett we had FullBack plays that were executed flawless by Diehl and other TEs.

I'm just super frustrated by our offensive scheme!¿?¡!!†**’???? I think Tony needs to change his mentality immediately! I have had issues with a lot of his responses for the last year and our production stinks bases

So our running backs which he coaches can't run because teams are stacking the box. So we quit calling running plays, but what about option pitches, misdirected pitch it with a full back, Pistol Formation, delayed pitch, screens, wheel routes, like


Message was edited by: TigerBigBass



Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 12:49 AM
 

Sorry, didn't finish post!

So our RBs can't run to the outside because the box is stacked? I guess the Pistol doesn't happen fast enough to hit a fast hole? So our RBs can run into a crowded line?

I wonder how Bama, UGA, LSU, Nevada, BC, Iowa, Penn St. all can run even though they may have people stacking the boxes?

Tony doesn't want his players to get bad stats so he calls plays to reduce their exposure. No way should he be the RB coach because if the RBs get shutout then he don't want to look bad. So as he calls plays he tries to make the RBs not responsible for failure. We have a very good running crew but Tony costs us that luxury. Instead he tell Kelly to carry for 3-8yds and then Tony looks genuis like.

So after Syracuse stacked the box, NCSt stacked the box, ##### tried, Bama stacked the box, etc, etc, we knew teams would try to emulate Bama all yr! So from last January until now, Tony and Jeff can't produce a formidable RB playcall that doesn't intimidate his sense of stacking the box!

I am so frustrated by these RB coach/OC that Dabo needs to consider change!!

Now let me end by saying, I love Tony! He is a good OC, but he needs to excuse himself from the RBs! He don't need to worry about their weaknesses as it reflects on his annual bonuses, therefore changing playcall based on their play versus what makes sense depending on Def lineup.

I'm going to send Dabo this letter for consideration.


Message was edited by: TigerBigBass



Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....

[5]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:14 AM
 

Last year we finished 35th in rushing offense, which I don't think is nearly as bad as you'd imagine with posts such as this. Iowa, whom you listed as being so good at running the football finished 96th. Nevada who you also listed was 107th. Penn State had the best running back in the country, and was still only 59th in total rushing offense. BC was 25th, and LSU was 28th. The difference between us at 35th and LSU at 28th btw was 13 yards per game.


Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:26 AM
 

But teams stacked the box on them as well. Yes I listed teams without looking up actual stats but more-so based on typical style of play. So UGA and Bama, known as running teams, Hurts and Fromm both were limited passers, but you don't see them shy away from running.

Two points I think you are missing in my rant. First, we are too talented to hear excuses as to why we didn't try to run the ball. Why rely on QB to run versus creating sensible plays to engage our RBs. 15 runs by ETN is poor play-calling. Why not throw in a TE as lead blocker or as a misdirected play that could break to a quick hitch, a solid run between the hashes with lead blocker?

Or second, as we have a nice lead how can we not play option with a runner like KB but also getting our talented backs outside the box. Why not quick pitches with misdirection from a sweeping Rogers?

Tony just makes too many excuses for poor QB play! I watched that game 4 times now and you can't tell me our play-calling was piss-poor!


Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....

[3]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:38 AM
 

Perhaps Alabama and Georgia have offensive lines which allow them to play power football? Perhaps it's also matchup based? In the NC game last year, the leading rusher for Alabama had 6 carries. Last year against A&M, Hurts had 14 carries, and Bama's two running backs had 15 and 14 carries. Against Auburn last year, Hurts had 18 carries, and the most carries by any Bama running back was 6. That was even though 2 of the Bama running backs averaged over 7 yards a carry.

My point is only that it's not as if any team goes out and runs the ball 40+ times a game with their running backs. Sometimes you get behind the chains, sometimes it's not working the way you want, sometimes it's based on game flow, and sometimes it's based on what the defense is giving you. I feel people are overreacting based on the Alabama game, and the A&M game which we won btw. As for the Alabama game, we're not even close to being the 1st offense they've done that to, and we won't be the last.


Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:41 AM
 

I meant to say, it's not as if any team goes out and runs the ball 40+ times per game with their running backs every single game without fail.


This is awesome, so you complain about the running game

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 8:43 AM
 

stats prove you're wrong, you admit that you didn't look up the stats, and then still proceed to argue that you're right?

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In his defense, I haven’t seen us use our FB much.

[2]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 9:01 AM
 

And props for reading more than two sentences of that op.




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Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....

[3]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:31 AM
 

Stop with the facts! He was on a roll! ????


Please stop using facts, they do not belong here***


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 8:54 AM
 

.

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Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....

[3]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 6:59 AM
 

So you love him but you want him thrown out on his ear ?
I'm gonna go ahead and ask if there's anything Tony can do that will change your opinion ?
What if he was part of our staff that won a few ACC Championships in a row ? Possibly if he coached just well enough and got us into the CFB playoffs ? Winning a Natty might be the thing that would help sway ?
I think he does a tremendous job . I think as a fanbase now we ( I am not immune myself ) have become expectant and a little spoiled . We win a lot of football games and lose very few .
Enjoy it brother , these are rare times for Clemson football .
I want to blow every team out too .. but it isn't one portion of our staff that is failing when we falter . We'll see improvements and adjustments as the season goes on ( by the OCs and everyone else ) .
We are 2-0 and right where we need to be . Trust in the process .

#pumperOut

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DB23


Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....


Posted: Sep 17, 2018 3:08 AM
 

I had too many Bourbons and my ability to form fluid thoughts were difficult translate to written text. That said, yes I like Tony! He is top notch. But I'm not sure he is a great RB coach. I'm afraid he over analyzed defenses and is too quick to stop running with RB.

But after I posted this, I hope you noticed we pulled out the FB against G. Southern and we ran with more determination. I'm guessing Dabo saw the same issues I was complaining about.


I understand your argument but the most important stat

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 7:32 AM
 

Is the w/l who on this list do you want to be like? Only one of them has more ws. All we are doing is winning. Maybe not as pretty as you like but we are winning.

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Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 12:49 AM
 

Sorry, didn't finish post!

So our RBs can't run to the outside because the box is stacked? I guess the Pistol doesn't happen fast enough to hit a fast hole? So our RBs can run into a crowded line?

I wonder how Bama, UGA, LSU, Nevada, BC, Iowa, Penn St. all can run even though they may have people stacking the boxes?

Tony doesn't want his players to get bad stats so he calls plays to reduce their exposure. No way should he be the RB coach because if the RBs get shutout then he don't want to look bad. So as he calls plays he tries to make the RBs not responsible for failure. We have a very good running crew but Tony costs us that luxury. Instead he tell Kelly to carry for 3-8yds and then Tony looks genuis like.

So after Syracuse stacked the box, NCSt stacked the box, ##### tried, Bama stacked the box, etc, etc, we knew teams would try to emulate Bama all yr! So from last January until now, Tony and Jeff can't produce a formidable RB playcall that doesn't intimidate his sense of stacking the box!

I am so frustrated by these RB coach/OC that Dabo needs to consider change!!

Now let me end by saying, I love Tony! He is a good OC, but he needs to excuse himself from the RBs! He don't need to know their weaknesses, therefore changing playcall based on their play versus what makes sense depending on Def lineup.

I'm going to send Dabo this letter for consideration.


Swinney determines which plays are runs and which are passes


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 12:50 AM
 

Not Elliott.


Re: Swinney determines which plays are runs and which are passes

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:04 AM
 

Soooo far from truth! Dont kid yourself! Dabo may decide whether to speed up, slow up, 2pt conversions, hurry-up, 2nd/3rd string, time-outs, etc!!! But he don't determine if it's a run play or pass play especially if it's a RPO. That falls on KB2.


Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....

[2]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 12:50 AM
 

If you have 2 OCs, you have no OC.

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Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:10 AM
 

Our team is too talented to look so vanilla! All the misdirection, dedicated run plays, full-back hammer, pistol, quick hitches, etc are all a thing of the past.

Basically we have 5 plays, one deep ball 30yds down the left side, a quick slant from right to left to Renfro, a quick screen either side, a QB delay run.


Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....

[2]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:15 AM
 

I dont care who the off.coord. is, I just want to be able to run the ball consistently. We'll always be performing below our full capability until we can pound the ball consistently.


Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:37 AM
 

outlaw1081 said:

I dont care who the off.coord. is, I just want to be able to run the ball consistently. We'll always be performing below our full capability until we can pound the ball consistently.


I agree to some extent! If you are a national powerhouse playoff team then if you are playing a team with the best DBs in the nation then you need to be able to move the ball an the ground and vice versa.

I'm telling you I was sooo mad after we got the ball back when Wallace caused the fumble and we choked up a 3-out in one minute. Late 4th qtr, we have 4rbs and none worked too hard and we only put the ball in their hands once in three plays, the QB runs it twice and we punt!

Worst play-calling ever!! It was actually stupid play-calling and we gave the ball back with time to score obviously. I'm tired of this vanilla stuff after we get a lead!!


Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....

[8]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 6:21 AM
 

ScElliot has been OC since the end of 2014. In that time we've lost to 3 teams; Syracuse, Pitt, and Alabama (twice). Only one of those losses could possibly be attributed to a real lack of offensive production.

In that time we've beat Auburn, TAMU, FSU (when they were good), OSU, Miami, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma (twice), Alabama (for a National Championship), and the coots (three times).

Yeah we don't run the most fun offense anymore, but we also don't get blown out anymore either. I will gladly take what we have now.

PS: This same conversation was being had in 2016 in our Championship run.


This can’t be serious.***

[3]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 6:22 AM
 



2020 white level member

There's one element to this offensive makeup than before

[2]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 7:08 AM
 

DW4

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What is so hard to understand about

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 7:46 AM
 

"can't run against a good team"? We abandoned the run w/ 115 yards and TAMU abandoned it with 71 yards. You run your scripted stuff, see what they've got, and go with what they give you. It's not bad play calling to try a run and move on to something else when you see it's covered and stuffed. You're just not going to move talented 300+lb defensive linemen up and down the field all game long if they are determined to stop you. It's not bad offensive play calling, it's good defense oriented to stop the run. Even pro offensive lines only run 50% of the time at most, and a lot of teams are closer to 70/30 pass/run.


Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 3:12 PM
 

They are co-OC as to get them more money. Dabo is the true OC. He is not willing to let anyone be a true OC after Morris.

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Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....


Posted: Sep 17, 2018 3:39 AM
 

Just wow, and it's not even down time.

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Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....


Posted: Sep 17, 2018 4:36 AM
 

I need some clarification here.
1) Weren't we 12-2 last year?
2) Aren't we 3-0 this year
3) Isn't our offense is currently ranked 20th in the nation and averaging 38ppg?
4) Didn't we just rush for 309 yards against Georgia Southern?

Someone needs to re-cage their gyros.


Re: Offensive coordinator (Tony) lack of development....


Posted: Sep 17, 2018 8:42 AM
 

I'm not sure that the OP understands the philosophy that our team uses. It's a chess match, plain and simple. We put pressure on teams until we find their weakness, and then we exploit it. We then form a solid position and hold that position thru the end game forcing the opponent to make desperate moves while our D makes them fail. They have been doing this for a long while now. It's pretty obvious.

Maybe pick up some chess books and study them, but don't start trying to study Bobby Fischer because he is too complicated in his thinking.

Hint: playing a lot of subs is part of the middle game, after we have exploited their weakness and solidified our position. Study hard young grasshopper.


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