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Replies: 18
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Associate AD [810]
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Heisman Trophy question
Jul 31, 2019, 8:18 AM
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Can you guys help me understand why some (most?) of the Heisman voters feel the winner has to be on a good team? I always thought the Heisman was awarded to an outstanding individual player, but I hear all the time that the winner's team has to be good too. Why is that?
Here's my argument. Say a quarterback has record stats for everything - td's, yardage, rushing yards, everything. No one is even close to producing what he does. But, his team's defense happens to be the worst in the country. His team ends up losing 4 games like 54-63. How can the superstar quarterback be punished for the half of his team that he doesn't even play for? Is he supposed to play all the positions?
Like I said, I always thought the Heisman was supposed to be awarded to an individual, but the voters think his team has to be good too.
What do you guys think?
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Scout Team [197]
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Re: Heisman Trophy question
Jul 31, 2019, 8:29 AM
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Many years ago the Heisman trophy became a popularity contest with whichever player out up monster stats the first 6 weeks of the season often against inferior opponents. Lamar Jackson is a prime example. His team lost 3 or 4 games coming down the stretch in games which he played poorly, but the media had crowned him the Heisman winner a month before the season ended.
The other issue is the number of people who have Heisman votes that watch very little football during the season and submit their ballot before the season is over.
I would love to see TL16 win the Heisman either this year or next (or both) as he is certainly the best player in college football. However I fully expect it to go to someone who puts up video game numbers in a conference who plays zero defense under a coaching staff who leaves said player in the game even during blowouts to pad his stats for a Heisman campaign (Bobby Petrino).
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Ehhh
Jul 31, 2019, 8:38 AM
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Tua was winning the Heisman by a wide margin 6 weeks into the season last year with Dwayne Haskins as his primary competitor. Neither of them went on to actually win the award. Generally speaking, I don't think the "midseason Heisman winner" actually wins the Heisman all that often.
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CU Medallion [67851]
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Re: Ehhh
Jul 31, 2019, 8:49 AM
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Yep Jackson did. No matter how much he screwed up down the stretch he jumped over a guy and that was all that seemed to matter. I have tuned out the show where they award it the last few years. When DW didnt get it I was done with them
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: Ehhh
Jul 31, 2019, 9:43 AM
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Agreed. 100%
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Orange Blooded [4412]
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Re: Ehhh
Jul 31, 2019, 9:54 AM
[ in reply to Re: Ehhh ] |
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Yes, they awarded him the trophy when he jumped over that Syracuse player. You saw that play on every promo the rest of the year.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Stats at the end of the regular season (Heisman is before
Jul 31, 2019, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Ehhh ] |
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bowls and playoffs).
Jackson (12 games) - 220/382 passing, 3390 yards, 8.9 YPA, 30TD, 9 INT // 206 carries for 1568 yards rushing, 7.6 YPC, 18TD
Watson (13 games) - 329/487 passing, 3914 yards, 8.0 YPA, 37TD, 15INT // 129 carries for 529 yards rushing, 4.1 YPC, 6TD
Jackson had over 1000 more rushing yards than Watson and averaged a ridiculous 7.6 YPC. For comparison Travis Etienne last year had 1658 yards and averaged 8.1 YPC and he was probably the best RB in the country. Lamar had just 90 less yards (in 3 fewer games) and was nearly as efficient at 7.6 YPC.
Deshaun had more passing yards (with an extra game), but Lamar was a bit more efficient in the passing game as well averaging more YPA and boasting a better TD-INT ratio.
You can say he padded his numbers against bad teams and that's probably true to an extent, but he also had great games against both FSU and Clemson - two teams that combined for 24 wins. He put up 450+ total yards on the road against our defense and nearly won that game. Also, despite the claims of his terrible late season or whatever, he actually only had 1 bad game and that was against Houston. Jackson and the entire Louisville offense were dreadful against LSU, but the Heisman had already been awarded at that point.
Now if i had to pick one of the two to lead us into the playoffs that year I'm absolutely still taking Watson, but that's not how the Heisman is awarded.
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All-American [554]
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Re: Heisman Trophy question
Jul 31, 2019, 8:37 AM
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I think these days, it's more about the ESPN hype machine.
If you get the momentum from all the talking heads, the voters respond. It's all about highlight tape, and marque games.
Yes, I agree, it should be the most outstanding player. That would mean a defensive player, or offensive lineman would have a chance, too.
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Orange Blooded [4195]
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Re: Heisman Trophy question
Jul 31, 2019, 8:55 AM
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Only one winner was on a losing team. Paul Hornung (Notre Dame) 1956, team finished 4-6.
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: Heisman Trophy question
Jul 31, 2019, 9:44 AM
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Now THAT's what I'm talking about. Best PLAYER gets the award, not the team.
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Hall of Famer [22777]
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They don't seem to follow their own mission statement
Jul 31, 2019, 9:34 AM
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The first paragraph of the Heisman Trust mission statement is:
The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding
college football player whose performance best exhibits the
pursuit of excellence with integrity. The winners of the trophy
epitomize great ability combined with diligence, perseverance,
and hard work. The Heisman Trophy Trust’s mission is to ensure
the continuation and integrity of this award.
in·teg·ri·ty
/in?te?r?d?/
noun
1. the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles;
moral uprightness
synonyms: honesty, uprightness, honor, honorableness, upstandingness,
good character, principle(s), ethics, morals, righteousness, morality,
nobility, high-mindedness, right-mindedness, noble-mindedness, virtue,
decency, fairness, scrupulousness, sincerity, truthfulness, trustworthiness
When Johnny Manziel, Jameis Winston, and Baker Mayfield won the Heisman,
it's questionable if the Heisman Trust was following their mission statement.
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: They don't seem to follow their own mission statement
Jul 31, 2019, 9:39 AM
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We've known this for years. It's simply the good old boys club ('Bammer, OSU, OU, USC, Meechigan, ND, and a few others).
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CU Medallion [52916]
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George Rogers is
Jul 31, 2019, 9:43 AM
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proof that it can be won while playing for a mediocre team
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: George Rogers is
Jul 31, 2019, 9:51 AM
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True enough. And Action Jackson did play for Lewisville. So, it does sometimes happen that lesser teams win it. But most of the time, not. We shall see.
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CU Medallion [65512]
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I, like just about every other Tiger fan, was PO'ed when
Jul 31, 2019, 10:06 AM
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Lemur Jackson took the Heisman over DW4. But, seeing how bad Lewisville was after he left, you have to give him credit for singlehandedly making them a contenda. Deshaun at least had some help.
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CU Medallion [55785]
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b/c voters are human and have limited time
Jul 31, 2019, 9:49 AM
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they can't watch every single player on every obscure team - time doesn't allow
so it ends up being the player that makes the quickest, biggest impression on a good team or a team that plays good teams (usually your top teams but occasionally you get a crazy standout performance like LJax had against FSU a few years back - dat crazy main, for real, oh snap)
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All-TigerNet [11077]
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Re: b/c voters are human and have limited time
Jul 31, 2019, 11:22 AM
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Finebum has a vote, how creditable can they be?
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All-In [27366]
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Simple
Jul 31, 2019, 10:04 AM
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Most people are morans.
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Standout [347]
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RG3 won it with 3 losses if I remember correctly.***
Jul 31, 2019, 12:16 PM
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