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Rooter [200]
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A Prediction and a Question
May 31, 2012, 1:10 AM
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I have no inside information on anything. I just read a lot of things from various sources and what I have read leads me to believe a few things. I have followed realignment very closely for 2 years because it has affected the school I root for every single year. I've heard all of this before.
1) I think there absolutely has been some back channel contact between FSU, Clemson and the Big 12. To what extent I do not know but reading between the lines the comments from various people actually associated with the universities/conference leads me to believe that beyond all that smoke, there is fire. It might currently only be a candle flame but any fire can spread quickly if unchecked.
2) FSU and Clemson are clearly not happy with the ACC/Swofford/Tobacco Road, nor do I think that there is anything the ACC can do to assuage their concerns at this point. Money is not going to magically appear for either school and the ACC has zero clout with the networks to increase it.
3) I do think that the Big 12 will expand to 12, sooner rather than later. Do I think it is this year? Yes. This is based on gut feeling only. It could possibly wait till next year though.
4) The BCS meetings will NOT determine the fate of FSU/CU/Big 12 Expansion. However, nothing will get done officially until they are over. I think FSU and Clemson both have made up their minds one way or the other.
I will be so bold as to make a prediction though.
CU and FSU know the score. I think they will use the next few weeks to get everything lined up before they officially announce that they will begin "exploring other options". Once that happens officially, I think you will see the Big 12 "change its tune" concerning expansion. Until that time the Big 12 will Baghdad Bob the media saying "everything is fine, we are happy at 10".
I think the Big 12 IS happy at 10, but understands that if a Florida State comes knocking at your door and their good pal Clemson is standing there, then you let them in the door. It's not like they are Jehova's Witnesses (that would be Louisville or Miami). FSU and CU showing up on your doorstep is more akin to Ed McMahon coming to your house informing you that you won the Clearing House Sweepstakes.
The question I would ask is this, IF FSU and Clemson come to the Big 12 and they hold at 12 indefinitely, will FSU and Clemson be happy being on an "island"? This seems to be a fairly prominent concern among Clemson and Florida State fans and is a legitimate concern.
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Freshman [8]
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Re: A Prediction and a Question
May 31, 2012, 1:22 AM
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Too much fun!!!
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Heisman Winner [140556]
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"Too much fun...
May 31, 2012, 8:09 AM
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what's that mean, it's like too much money, there's no such thing. Like a girl too pretty with too much class, being too lucky a car too fast. No matter what they say I've done, I ain't ever had too much fun." ~Daryle Singletary
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: A Prediction and a Question
May 31, 2012, 1:46 AM
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There has been a lot of talk about travel IF we were to go to the Big 12, but not a single mention of the travel we will do in the ACC. PITT, Syracuse, and Miami are not exactly close to us. Maryland has always been on the schedule, and they are not within "walking" distance. Just because we would be traveling outside of the timezone doesn't mean that we would be going much farther than we will be going in the ACC.
Also, the idea of comparing ACC schools on the schedule to possible Big 12 opponents is nearing laughable. Perception is 100% of reality in the NCAA. The Big 12 is a much more respected football conference than the ACC. A poor Big 12 school is more highly regarded than a middle of the pack ACC school. Fair or not, that is the way things are.
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1st Rounder [639]
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Re: A Prediction and a Question
May 31, 2012, 4:09 AM
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I think the Big 12 is more top heavy than the ACC in football. (especially Texas & OU) However, I think the
Big 12/ACC are comparable conferences across the board.
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Athletic Dir [861]
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So do I,
May 31, 2012, 6:52 AM
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but ESPN and the rest of the country don't. The fact is the ACC is a tough conference to play in and simultaneously a conference that is seen as a cake walk by the rest of the country. That is a terrible situation to be in. Winning earns you very little respect and losing means you are terrible.
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CU Guru [1714]
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Re: So do I,
May 31, 2012, 7:27 AM
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ACC teams are inconsistent. I lump Clemson in that statement as well. We can take down a top ten team and turn around the next week and lose a heartbreaker to Duke! That is the problem with the ACC... at any point any team in the conference can bite you in the ### but when looked at across the year the teams don't show any consistency and therefore they look weak. Then the team that was beaten by the weak team looks weak too. Look at Maryland last year. They gave us all the fight that they had and I believe it was their best game of the year. Had we lost to them we would have lost to a 3 or 4 win team (I forget their record) and Clemson would have looked like a fool (kind of like when we lost to NCSt later in the year).
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Letterman [253]
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Re: So do I,
May 31, 2012, 9:04 AM
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...(and still kind of does) when ESPN did that "ACC Wheel of Destiny" thing, but the record speaks for itself. We all beat our chests loudly when Miami and VPI joined the ACC and crowed about having a new power football conference that would rival the SEC. As a conference, we have fallen flat on our faces and our Tigers have played their part in that. The ACC had all the opportunity in the world, but we just didn't grasp it - we can't even beat the friggin' Big East consistently! In many ways the desirable choice would be to stay and help this dysfunctional conference realize its potential, but college football is in an EXTREMELY dynamic state right now and we simply cannot afford to be left behind...
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Letterman [253]
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Whoops...
May 31, 2012, 9:06 AM
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That was supposed to start out with "It always used to pi$$ me off and still kind of does..."
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CU Guru [1878]
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Have you looked at a map lately?
May 31, 2012, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: A Prediction and a Question ] |
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"Just because we would be traveling outside of the timezone doesn't mean that we would be going much farther than we will be going in the ACC"
What kind of messed up maps are you guys looking at? Our travel will DOUBLE by moving to the Big XII. Assuming costs are per mile (they're not as busing to close schools is even cheaper than flying), our costs will DOUBLE as well. Distances are from Clemson...
ACC Travel:
BC - 977 miles
Duke - 271 miles
FSU - 353 miles
GT - 124 miles
Maryland - 562 miles
Miami - 762 miles
UNC - 268 miles
NCST - 295 miles
UVA - 399 miles
VT - 298 miles
WF - 208 miles
Total: 4,517 miles... or 410 miles per school
Big XII Travel:
Baylor - 985 miles
Kansas - 908 miles
Missouri - 745 miles
OSU - 978 miles
Iowa St - 1048 miles
KSU - 989 miles
Oklahoma - 985 miles
Texas - 1077 miles
Texas Tech - 1252 miles
FSU (might as well) - 353 miles
WVU - 501 miles
Total: 9821 miles... or 892 miles per school
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Head Coach [757]
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For all sports not just football***
May 31, 2012, 1:10 PM
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Legend [18133]
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Re: Have you looked at a map lately?
May 31, 2012, 2:07 PM
[ in reply to Have you looked at a map lately? ] |
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True enough. BC and UM are our outliers and they are closer than just about all the B12 schools. For that reason, I would want a guarantee that further expansion will happen and it will be in the east. Nevertheless, the move is about much, much, much more than mere geography.
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: Have you done math lately?
Jun 1, 2012, 2:26 AM
[ in reply to Have you looked at a map lately? ] |
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"What kind of messed up maps are you guys looking at? Our travel will DOUBLE by moving to the Big XII."
oh? I do believe that I focused that on Miami, BC, and Maryland.
BC= 977 (farthest current ACC) 1077= Texas (farthest Big 12)
Miami = 762
MD = 562
we travel to BC every year and seem to constantly draw Miami. Now add in Syracuse and PITT to that. Is there really that much difference in travel? We won't travel every game. ACC we will travel those distances 3-4 times a year. In the Big 12 we will travel those distances 4-5 times a year. I know the distance of travel from SC to Big 12 country, as well as the distance from SC to the northern edges of the ACC.
oh, and Missouri is in the SEC now btw.
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All-TigerNet [13891]
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I would be very happy on that football island.
May 31, 2012, 6:32 AM
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After all you have more MaryAnns and Gingers to play with than you do Mrs. Howells. Also, you have no Swofford, I mean Gilligan, to screw things up. Just sayin.
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Walk-On [149]
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I would be much happier if a couple of southern....
May 31, 2012, 8:07 AM
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teams were added in the future. My biggest concern about the BIG 12 is the fact that all of the bowl games are in the west, and all of the conference championships will be played in the west. If this is truly going to be a happy marriage, I believe that there will need to be a better balance between the south and west.
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Associate AD [833]
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Re: A Prediction and a Question
May 31, 2012, 8:41 AM
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I think the geography is a concern. However THE real issue is money. If the financial reality of an expanded B12 provided the financial resources to compete with our feathered friends in the SEC then we can live well on that island. I believe that expansion will happen because I are no other realistic scenario that can provide the $ and opportunity to be in the playoff.
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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Nope, our traveling fans will...
May 31, 2012, 8:48 AM
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have to change their lifestyles. I wonder if that is not asking too much of them.
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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To answer your question, a resounding heck no from me.
May 31, 2012, 8:55 AM
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Not only in football, but also in basketball. I'm not looking forward to starting another streak of never winning against y'all. 
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CU Guru [1321]
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Point fot the Jehovah's Witness analogy.
May 31, 2012, 9:09 AM
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Hope your right Jayhawk. I don't think this is over yet either.
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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You'll know this is over when Clemson's BOT or TDP...
May 31, 2012, 9:37 AM
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says "Clemson is firmly committed to the ACC. Academics bla bla bla..."
The fat lady ain't even warming up back stage yet.
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CU Guru [1071]
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Being on an island is my concern - that is why
May 31, 2012, 10:08 AM
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I would really want Georgia Tech as No. 13. Tech is our most natural rival that might be available (UGA and USuC aren't going anywhere). For 14, I would want Va Tech. If you can't get Va Tech, then whoever you can get between Miami or Pitt. I just don't believe Notre Dame will be a player in Big 12 football - if I am wrong they can have that last spot!
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Orange Blooded [2332]
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Re: A Prediction and a Question
May 31, 2012, 10:35 AM
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I would agree with a majority of the points made by the original poster, but there are underlying elements to this situation which will factor into a final decision.
First the Clemson athlectic advisory committee meets June 18th & 19th. Until the AD and BOT has a firm answer on all the financials from the Big 12, as well as the corresponding ones from the ACC nothing will take place!
Second the BCS championship format will indeed have a direct impact upon Clemson's decision. If Swoffie can somehow persuade other conferences and ND to put an at large team into the format or to use an eight team format then the ACC will actually have a fighting chance to be represented. If not then all bets are off regarding Clemson and FSU staying in the ACC.
Third Clemson and FSU want other "eastern" division teams ASAP to be included in the revised Big 12 for obvious travel/financial considerations. How quickly ND, Ga. Tech, Louisville or anyone else under consideration joins the conference will also be an important factor. Texas may not immediately want a sixteen team conference, but the time is fast approaching when they won't have any choice on the matter despite their influence in the Big 12.
I believe Tiger fans won't see any specific movement until after July 1st when TCU and WVU become full voting members of the Big 12. Clemson and or FSU must sign off by July 15th so I believe much will take place between June 25th and July 15th, but not before then unless the BOT have reason to act outside of what we know.
Go Tigers!
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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For me personally, I'd say no to a 2 team package deal
May 31, 2012, 10:55 AM
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If we think "NC Bias" is bad, wait until there is "midwest bias" and we are the only 2 southern schools.
I have no loyalty to the ACC, and from a fan perspective, playing bigger and better is more appealing. (Although ACC baseball is far and away better than Big 12) But from a Clemson standpoint and looking to the future, I wouldn't want to go to a conference where we are the outlier. If the Big 12 decided to expand from 12 to 14 or 16 and Clemson/FSU were the only southen bloc, then we would be quickly outvoted and a BYU or some western school would be added.
If you give me Clemson/FSU and then some combination of 2 VT/GT/Miami/NCSU, I'll help change the conference logos on the stadiums.
Good post though.
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Walk-On [126]
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Re: A Prediction and a Question
May 31, 2012, 1:27 PM
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I remember this scenario about 40 years ago with another school. At the last moment we backed out. As it stands now its starting to look like a similar situation. Yeah travelling to the freezing midwest on road trips does not sound too appealing, but the competition level will definitely be at a higher level. If Clemson does not do anything and stays put, I have a feeling the ACC will not play a bigger role in the selection process than will the SEC, Pac10, Big12 or Big10. Why didn't Swofford get off his a$$ and sign a deal with the SEC like the Big12 did? Why wasn't he pursuing this? He waits until things have already happened and then "wakes up". He's leading the ACC to nowhere?
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Head Coach [757]
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Re: A Prediction and a Question
May 31, 2012, 1:48 PM
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Wait and see.... all cards haven'nt been played yet...
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Oculus Spirit [83129]
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Prediction:
May 31, 2012, 1:37 PM
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Clemson and FSU will never join Big 12.
Would love to visit Lawrence for a basketbal game though.
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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why?***
May 31, 2012, 2:13 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83129]
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Tradition mainly. Wilt played there. Dean played there.
May 31, 2012, 2:39 PM
[ in reply to Prediction: ] |
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Paul Pierce played there.
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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Calfrope, uncle!***
May 31, 2012, 3:09 PM
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110%er [7913]
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great points and I agree***
May 31, 2012, 2:13 PM
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Replies: 29
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