Topic: Don't understand the Littlejohn rebuild
Replies: 46   Last Post: Jan 28, 2014 4:39 PM by: MackDaddy®
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Don't understand the Littlejohn rebuild

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 7:57 AM

I just don't understand the desire to rebuild Littlejohn. I was just there for the WF game and didn't find it really lacking as a structure. In fact, I would say that, as it stands, it's nicer than the Dean Dome even. It just seems like a misuse of funds. If our basketball program is really to be competitive in the ACC, we're either going to need to throw huge $ at a prominent coach (like the coots did in football) or find a rare coach like the dookies did in football with Cutcliffe. The other thing that might help our team is if the crowd participated more. Most of the time at a home game it feels like sitting in a school auditorium. The students usually seem eager, but the alum just sit on their thumbs. I don't know what you do to change that culture. Maybe they need to start having cheering practices with the crowd before the game? Serve hard liquor? What would help most is if the game of basketball didn't suck (I am NOT calling out the team or players, I appreciate those young men's effort), but I don't see that changing. What would be awesome is if they used the money they're earmarking for the Littlejohn rebuild to build a hockey program. Now there's a sport that'll get folks fired up.

Agreed. I also dont understand the elimination of 1,500

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 8:01 AM

seats either

Re: Agreed. I also dont understand the elimination of 1,500

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 12:39 PM

I would think a USC fan would be happy with taking 1500 seats from your white whale. I didnt know the thing was getting worked on though.



field hockey? chicks with sticks...

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 8:15 AM


how much of the rebuild is to be player/coach & fan amenities to attract? idk, honest question.

will the site lines be better? will it be better to attract other activities? really haven't read that much detail on the needs it's addressing, but clemson can and should be competitive in basketball. even little duke is throwing big money at football, cutcliffe isn't doing it with just a winning smile & nice posture.

the basketball people seem to think coach brownell is the guy that can build a program.

i'm kewl with that.

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It's more about impressing recruits than pleasing fans..

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 8:24 AM

not much different than in football.

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I'm a grown man simply stating wise and true things.

^^^ This is the answer ^^^ Since the last renovation LJ has

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:12 AM

been a fine place to watch a game of basketball. It used to have poor sight lines because of the wall around the court, but no more. There literally are no bad seats and the size of the arena is about perfect for the potential average number of fans.

Where LJ has always been lacking is in the things that impress recruits ... all the behind the scenes amenities that we seldom see or think about, but those that players are exposed to and use everyday of the year.

Locker rooms, weight rooms, practice courts, player lounges ... even coaches offices and meeting rooms. All this stuff has to be plush and state -of-the-art when you bring recruits in for a visit. They don't care about the seating in the arena or the concession stands, or the luxury box seats, etc.

Improvements in LJ should concentrate on the things that impress players, not fans.

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Posted: Jan 28, 2014 10:12 AM

It is also about improving the fan experience. Better sight lines. More seats closer to the floor. Better atmosphere. Club areas.

i don't want to speak for anyone else, but...

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 10:34 AM

hookers would improve my fan experience.


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What do you not understand about

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 10:56 AM

it's more about impressing recruits?

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I'm a grown man simply stating wise and true things.

maybe he struggles with > &/or = to statements? you know...

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 11:02 AM

those "if thens" can be tricky.

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LJ is serviceable as a home court, but not up to the

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 8:25 AM

standards of most of the ACC. Yes, Cameron is a dump, but Duke plays there so that negates it. The Dean Dome is old, but again, NC plays there. It's not just the seating area in question though. Our facilities are woefully lacking in regards to offices, support, training and a practice facility. All of that will be incorporated, and all carry greater significance in this day and age. When it's done, it will show a major investment in the program as a whole, not just the seating area. It needs to be done if we are to have equal footing with our competition

Agree - But why can't all of that

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 12:55 PM

built on the grounds around Littlejohn? Yes, the amenities are needed but do we have to tear down LJ to get them??


Because if you are high up some sight lines are awful

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 1:09 PM

it's sort of like the old cookie cutter stadiums of the 70's(Atlanta Fulton County/Riverfront/Three Rivers), they served a purpose but are now obsolete in design. That's LJ

Best way to improve Clemson Basketball,...

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 8:33 AM

Move it to the state of North Carolina.

Yes,... somewhat tongue in cheek here, but after growing up in South Carolina and moving to North Carolina for a number of years (thank goodness I'm back now) I can say that the interest in basketball between the two cultures are night and day. The culture in NC eats, sleeps, drikns, and drools basketball,... that's simply not the case here. A winning basketball team in SC is o.k., kind of fun, but not something the culture is focused on or has a special demand for. You can flip this completely around with football, and I for one am completely o.k. with that. We have a nice facility in Littlejohn. Making it bigger won't change the culture in our state, and unless that happens, in my opinion we'll only be sinking money into more empty seats.

aren't they taking seats out? i has the confuse.***

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 8:36 AM

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Re: Best way to improve Clemson Basketball,...

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 11:52 AM

I think your post pretty well sums up my opinion on the matter as well.

You said it in your comment

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 8:35 AM

The reason is because of the mundane atmosphere, and based on the way the arena is presently set up, it leads to that. Littlejohn is essentially a giant square with rounded corners that offers some lousy sightlines and weak seat allocations, particularly for students. With a rebuild, the court would be rotated 45 degrees and would create better seating for students (allowing them to line a sideline) and giving the arena additional room to provide concessions and club amenities. If that means losing 1,500 seats that are very rarely used, then I'm all for it.

^^^ seems like an educated response. pointed.***

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 8:37 AM

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When can we expect an educated response from you?

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 8:45 AM

I'll hang up and listen.

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I'm a grown man simply stating wise and true things.

when i find more than one educated poster?

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 8:50 AM

was that helpful? did that help?

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^^^ this was an educated post, pointed***

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:04 AM

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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat

I think you overachieved on that one...

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:06 AM

I'll give you a point.

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I'm a grown man simply stating wise and true things.

overachiever is mah fav monkey's song.***

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:08 AM

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Re: You said it in your comment

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 8:48 AM

Striper fan gets it. It would be great to occasionally have a ticket that is hard to get. All the talk about"do away with,or forget basketball" is foolish. Look at all the small schools with limited budgets that are successful in hoops. We need to ramp up the support.


Posted: Jan 28, 2014 10:14 AM

Whatever we have to do to stop having a JDEW or anyone like a JDEW, then for the love of God let's do it.

It's embarrassing. That's minor league baseball crap.

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Re: I wouldn't care if we self imposed the death penalty and

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:01 AM

made it another indoor facility for football, or the world's largest Weight facility! Just my opinion.

Re: I wouldn't care if we self imposed the death penalty and

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 12:43 PM

I wouldn't loose any sleep if we did so. I'd much rather win one football National Championship than 5 basketball National Championships.

Re: Don't understand the Littlejohn rebuild

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:07 AM

Hockey SUCKS. This isn't New Jersey

LJ HAS to be the only venue that doesn't have seating behind

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:13 AM

one of the baskets.

This gives each opponent an entire half to shoot free throws without having to worry about fans waving their arms like they are trying to achieve flight right behind the backboard.

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And we will finally get the students near the court

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 4:39 PM

where they need to be

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We do Chicken right...it's not just for frying anymore!

You said that the game of basketball sucks.

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:15 AM

So it doesn't sound like there is much anyone can say to convince you that a new arena is vital. All I will say is that when a recruit visits our campus, he does not see basketball as a priority. A new arena will show everyone - recruits, current players, students, and fans - that Clemson is committed to basketball. At this point, it's hard to blame the coach when the deck is stacked against him.

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Re: Don't understand the Littlejohn rebuild

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:31 AM

it's a no-win situation.... we have to either put a lot of money into LJ or rebuild to show a committment to basketball, in which case, basketball still won't sustain itself AND we still will always be in the bottom half of the highly competitive ACC..... or we do nothing, and basketball die.... real problem is that DRad had to do something because we're in a basketball conference so we've got to play the sport, but once we spend all these $$$ trying to keep up w/ our ACC cousins, the debts will have to be paid w/ football revenues. so while we're trying to invest in football like an SEC school, we might be hindering ourselves.

If you're not going to give 110%, then why compete at all?

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:36 AM

I like that we're putting our money where our mouth is and getting serious about hoops. I didn't like the idea of a completely new arena because I think LJ is in a great location and is a sound structure, but I like that we're giving it a real overhaul. My one and only complaint is the fact that we just spent a ton of money only 10 years ago. That kind of feels like a waste of money now. But, that aside, I think we're doing the right thing.

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It's not like FSU can compete in ACC BB either. Oh, wait.***

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 10:36 AM

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Photobucket is holding my sig pic hostage. Screw them.


Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:58 AM

I don't understand this facilities arms race thing. Oregon is light years ahead of everybody in facilities supposedly, and their last Natl Championship was in 1939.

To be honest, the only way you build a competitive basketball program at a place like Clemson is be willing to CHEAT like everybody else. As long as we handicap ourselves by following NCAA rules other programs pay no attention to, we've got no chance. I say put some of that renovation money in the recruit's pockets, or their Uncle's (whichever the NCAA says is OK now, as long as the recruit is outside the room when the cash is handed over of course).

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It is about two major factors

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 10:09 AM

Recruiting and improving the fan experience at the games. Littlejohn has terrible sight lines. Even the fix a few years ago didn't help. Compared to football, very little money has been spent on the basketball program. Millions and millions have been spent on football. But when the AD wants to spend millions and millions on basketball, some fans start whining. Littlejohn is almost 50 years old. It is time to do something. No other arena in the country makes a visiting team take an elevator to the third floor to get to their locker room. In its current state, it is an embarrassing design. It is time for basketball to have a space with a lot of bells and whistles, a high-quality practice area, and all of the other things you need to run a top-level program. We have seen glimpses of Clemson being able to compete in the ACC. We need consistency. Reducing the number of seats is about fan experience. People don't come to the games now. So reduce the capacity and get most of the seats closer to the floor. Make the ticket more valuable.

CU has tried every structure change EXCEPT a great HC & TEAM

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 10:20 AM

imo. Oh, I know we had Barnes & few other pretty good HC's..and have had a slew of players (on & off)..but the structure IS NOT the problem..even in recruiting imo.

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To All CLEMSON TiGERS..Sending you Bright Light from the Carolina Coast and hoping you get to witness a huge Orange sunset tonight. Go Tigers!

Facility Upgrades are for padding Administrator's Resumes...

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 10:51 AM

As long as you're not Grambling bad, recruits don't care THAT much about facilities. Our leather couches are just as good as the ones at Duke. Recruits want a place where they know they'll get exposure to get drafted. A new building isn't going to do that. Hiring coaches from middle of the pack Horizon League teams isn't going to do that either.

Fans will come to the games if you have a team that's somewhat fun to watch and is at least competitive. This year has been an improvement, but the last couple of years have been horrible to watch, and I think that has turned off a lot of casual fans. BB's style may be a good fit at Wright St or UNCW where there is little else to compete for eyeballs, but let's be honest, this isn't a hardcore basketball region, and old-school fundamental basketball is boring as all get out. People aren't going to come out for that. You might see a bump in attendance at first just for those curious to see the new digs, but nobody will buy season tickets for a boring/bad team just because you added some new and improved cup holders to the seats.

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"recruits don't care THAT much about facilities"..

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 10:58 AM

you obviously don't follow recruiting that closely

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I'm a grown man simply stating wise and true things.

Name one.....

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 11:22 AM

recruit who picked a school just because of facilities. For every Syracuse or UNC you can throw out there, there's a NC State, Maryland, or South Carolina who put tons of money into their facilities and have nothing to show for it. NC State and Maryland were arguably better teams in their crappy old arenas.

Obviously if you've got a moldy weight room or dingy locker room with a leaky roof, that's going to hurt you, but I don't think that's the case at Clemson. I'm not really against spending money on the upgrades if the funds are there, I just don't think that strategy will make much of a difference on the court if that's all that changes over the next couple of years.

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Re: Don't understand the Littlejohn rebuild

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 10:48 AM

It seems that Rad is trying to do what he did at Georgia Tech. I don't get it because I am not impressed with what I see on TV from Georgia Tech. It looks small and dark. I am also not impressed with Auburn that just went with a small venue. I don't get the downsizing. I also don't understand why people feel the need to be connected to social media during a game. Perhaps focusing on the event you I am just not impressed with the plan. It seems like it would be better to scrap the whole thing and build a new arena.

The practice facilities are crap

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 10:53 AM

If you've ever seen the gym they warm up in, you'd realize that this makes it hard to recruit. I think it has way more to do with the other aspects of the arena (fan experience and practice areas, as well as moving offices closer to the arena) than just the arena itself.

Not another "blame the wine and cheese crowd"

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 11:54 AM

When we win and are competitive, the culture and the crowd will change.

Be honest..CU Will Never Be a Basketball School imho! ***

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 12:48 PM

And I'm glad a bit about that since I love Clemson Football & being a Football School from day ONE!


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To All CLEMSON TiGERS..Sending you Bright Light from the Carolina Coast and hoping you get to witness a huge Orange sunset tonight. Go Tigers!

Re: Be honest..CU Will Never Be a Basketball School imho! ***

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 1:16 PM

If you truly love Clemson then you'd want to be competitive in every sport. Being a one-sport fan makes no sense.

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Duke and UNC don't need elite facilities

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 1:03 PM

They have their tradition and play to attract recruits. We do not

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I tend to agree but....

Posted: Jan 28, 2014 1:12 PM

...if it gives us some advantages in recruiting and more fan participation I'm willing to go along with it.

It certainly can't help our situation in BB. It's almost an embarrassment how much a non-factor Clemson has been in the ACC since I graduated in the dark ages.


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