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MVP [548]
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Tillman Hall
Jan 22, 2015, 10:07 AM
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I am a graduate of Clemson, my sister is a graduate, her husband is a graduate, and my son graduated in 2011. We all entered Clemson at different times and we all remember our first site of Tillman hall and Thomas Clemson sitting out front. I had my head shaved as a "rat" in front of Tillman Hall. Now you know how old I am. I realize that Ben Tillman was not a perfect person and exhibited tendencies that we find horrible today, but were acceptable by many in his day. I'm not making excuses for his behavior. The fact remains that the man was an integral part of the formation of our wonderful university. I am against a name change as are my family members mentioned above. I have just contacted the office of the Board of Trustees and spoke with Rose Ellen Davis-Gross 864-656-5615 to express my feelings. It will take action of the South Carolina General Assembly with input from the Trustees to affect a name change. If you feel as I do, I urge you to make the phone call. This will not go away unless the feelings of what I believe to be a great majority are made known to the Trustees.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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I can't help but wonder....
Jan 22, 2015, 10:23 AM
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how long this group of protesters have been in school and why this was never been a problem BEFORE NOW.
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Orange Blooded [3881]
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someone just told them about a month ago***
Jan 22, 2015, 12:17 PM
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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It's been a problem for years. The problem recently is that
Jan 22, 2015, 6:38 PM
[ in reply to I can't help but wonder.... ] |
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a book was written about 10 years ago that researched in painful detail how Tillman was not just a racist even by the standards of his day, but was a mass murderer who rode with the Red Shirts on many of their lynching parties.
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Walk-On [113]
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Re: Tillman Hall
Jan 22, 2015, 10:24 AM
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I agree. You can't make judgments on a historical culture based on today's culture. One thing you have to remember about politicians. They make their decisions based on the will of the people. My 1st day at Clemson in 1975, as I drove onto campus seeing guys throwing Frisbees in front of Tillman Hall and seeing that big clock, I knew I had arrived. I'll never duplicate that feeling. Remember that he can't defend his actions, and we'll never understand them cause we weren't there.
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110%er [5023]
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Re: Tillman Hall
Jan 22, 2015, 11:06 AM
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Beautiful post...
But if he were here today, how exactly would he defend murdering black people? "OH, they had it coming to them because a bunch of other people didn't like them back then!"....You know that the ones that were murdered were a colored unit part of the South Carolina National Guard right?
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Orange Blooded [3881]
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are you trying to put words in th emouth of a man that has
Jan 22, 2015, 12:18 PM
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long been gone....come on you're better than that....aren't you
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110%er [5023]
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Re: are you trying to put words in th emouth of a man that has
Jan 22, 2015, 1:01 PM
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Of course not...I was just simply implying what his reactionary statement would have been in justification of a crime that was just as much illegal then as it is now...
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Oculus Spirit [90819]
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Great post..and Yes, awareness of Tillman's bad & good past are valid..
Jan 22, 2015, 10:30 AM
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But I too agree that a name change would not serve the state or school well...but agree the recent issues of his past (good & bad) have brought up important learning info to those now living that didn't know their history on "Pitchfork" Ben Tillman.
Changing a name won't change his influence..and calling a brick building by another name "could" even enforce his prominence to one group over another!
GoTiGERS!
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Orange Blooded [3138]
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This will more than likely fizzle out
Jan 22, 2015, 10:31 AM
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The pro change side will keep pushing. The keep the name side should probably just quietly let them make their noise and it will go away in 6 months.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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RA'd
Jan 22, 2015, 10:38 AM
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Rassist. Please make a $10,000 donation to Rainbow Push immediately.
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110%er [5093]
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Would the building be torn down or something?
Jan 22, 2015, 11:08 AM
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Or am I the only one not understanding why the name is such a big deal for you?
What difference does it make if they change the name? You'll still remember seeing the building the first time. Isn't that the part that matters?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I think the libs are wanting everyone blood related to Ben..
Jan 22, 2015, 11:30 AM
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raped and murdered. hth
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CU Medallion [64590]
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Nobody expects you to understand #### lover...
Jan 22, 2015, 11:35 AM
[ in reply to Would the building be torn down or something? ] |
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You deluded goobers have far more buildings on your campus named after known slave owners and proponents of salvery (one of which even housed salves) than Clemson does. The University of Second Choice bought and even owned at least one salve and utlitzed a number others salve laborers in the construction of the school and other domestic capacities. I won't even get into James Marion Sims (the Sims College) using slaves as subjects for medical and surgical experiments.
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110%er [5093]
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Do you see me defending any of those men
Jan 22, 2015, 11:39 AM
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I can't comprehend why you guys support Ben Tillman.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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Again...no one expects you to understand
Jan 22, 2015, 11:43 AM
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that his name on the building has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with his personal convictions about salvery, minority races, or any other subject for that matter.
Get back to me if and when a group of students starts clamouring to have all of the names on those $CU buildings changed.
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110%er [5093]
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How can you type that with a straight face?
Jan 22, 2015, 11:50 AM
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It was renamed Tillman Hall in 1946 because his son thought Ben's legacy was being forgotten.
You name a building after someone to remember his legacy but that doesn't include anything he actually did?
Biggie, surely you're better than this.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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Tillman's name is on that building for one reason....
Jan 22, 2015, 12:01 PM
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and one reason only and that is because without his efforts to lobby the South Carolina General Assembly, Clemson University (then the Clemson Agricultural College of South Carolina) would likely have never been established.
The fact of the matter is, Ben Tillman would have likely torn down the building brick by brick if he thought for a second that people of color or women would have ever been admitted.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: How can you type that with a straight face?
Jan 22, 2015, 12:09 PM
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In other words, a #### coot ain't got any business talking about race issues at Clemson.
Clean up your own university
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110%er [5093]
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Re: How can you type that with a straight face?
Jan 22, 2015, 12:16 PM
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Unfortunately we have too many biggies in our fan base as well.
You don't see me preaching we are any better on race issues.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: How can you type that with a straight face?
Jan 22, 2015, 1:13 PM
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No I don't see you preaching that y'all are better on race issues but the point is....what happened at Clemson is NONE of your business..Clean up your own school..
After all, you don't like bigots as you say...
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CU Medallion [64590]
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I've seen that jockstrap try to justify and defend....
Jan 22, 2015, 1:43 PM
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all manner of inappropriate conduct by $CU student-athletes and coaches but now, all of sudden, he's trying to find his way to the moral high ground.
Spare me !!!!
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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CU Guru [1925]
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CU Guru [1893]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Again...no one expects you to understand
Jan 22, 2015, 10:30 PM
[ in reply to Again...no one expects you to understand ] |
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I understand. Myself, my father (class of 48) and my 2 brothers went to Clemson.
I understand perfectly how backward it is to continue to honor a man, whatever good he may have done, who murdered and advocated lynching innocent black people. I understand very well the "wink wink, nod nod" underlying racial beliefs in South Carolina. What many say in public is gravely different from what they say in private. I was born and raised there. Lol...I've seen this crap all of my life.
I would submit, like it or don't like it, that if it was discovered that he had killed a house full of white women, or a few white children, a lot of "outraged" members of this board would be at the head of the pack, carrying the biggest signs, to change the name on that building "immediately".
You can't change what Ben Tillman did back then. But you can #### well stop honoring the man today. It's what you "choose" today that matters.
It's not about him, it's about who we really are as Southern Men TODAY.
Go Tigers and screw Ben Tillman.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Do you see anyone defending Ben Tillman's actions or
Jan 22, 2015, 12:18 PM
[ in reply to Do you see me defending any of those men ] |
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political beliefs here on Tnet??? NO!!
I honestly don't care about a name change one way or another, but the folks who want to keep Tillman as is are not condoning anything about "Pitchfork" Ben other than his contributions to the founding of Clemson University.....####, while gov., he even prevented the academic joke in the midlands from being permanently shut down...one of his more egregious commissions.
Why don't you take your obvious bias and go somewhere your opinions might be considered intelligent.
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110%er [5121]
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While I agree with you about feelings on tnet, I did some
Jan 22, 2015, 3:21 PM
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surfing on the interwebs and it is truly embarrassing to me as a Clemson grad to see what some people are saying out there. Most of what I've seen in support of the name (outside of tnet) is really disgusting. They also need to ban that yik yak app, like now. I had never seen it until today and can't believe what people put on there.
For the sake of our reputation I support the name change. My allegiance is to Clemson University, not some dead guy.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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and thats why the chickens love to dwell on and
Jan 22, 2015, 4:08 PM
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perpetuate this topic.....any mention of it brings out the crazies on both sides. And as I posted, the name on that building will never lessen its iconic impact on my brain dating to me as a toddler
Clemson fans need to spend more time pointing out the racism that usuck is built on, &when THEY'RE going to make changes and less on "Old Main"/ Tillman Hall
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1st Rounder [616]
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Re: While I agree with you about feelings on tnet, I did some
Jan 23, 2015, 12:17 AM
[ in reply to While I agree with you about feelings on tnet, I did some ] |
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I agree. It's just not worth fighting for. People are in an uproar to keep a dead murderer's name on a building. Why? I grew up 20 miles from Clemson and have been a lifelong Clemson fan. When I first heard about what Ben Tillman did, I couldn't believe his name was on the building. Change it. The sooner the better.
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CU Medallion [61841]
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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I support him as a former governor of the great state of SC.
Jan 22, 2015, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to Do you see me defending any of those men ] |
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Without his leadership, this state would not have its greatest institute of higher learning.
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110%er [5121]
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Just because he's a coot doesn't mean he's wrong on this.
Jan 22, 2015, 3:38 PM
[ in reply to Nobody expects you to understand #### lover... ] |
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For the record, I could not care less what they do at scar. This is about Clemson and that's all I care about.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Would the building be torn down or something?
Jan 22, 2015, 1:11 PM
[ in reply to Would the building be torn down or something? ] |
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Any coot that feels strongly about racism and bigotry should start a crusade against usuck. Buildings on campus named after racists, Buildings BUILT by slaves, even the gamecock nickname is named after a racist slave holder...
Man up and prove to us that you're who you say you are. You claim you're against bigotry. Prove it..
Start the crusade on fgf and link it here. 
Bet you'll have an excuse
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110%er [5121]
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The name doesn't matter. I honestly never really gave it
Jan 22, 2015, 3:29 PM
[ in reply to Would the building be torn down or something? ] |
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much thought. Buildings are named for dead guys that most don't remember. I can't tell you who most of the people were that have buildings named for them...Brackett? Strode? Mauldin? Sikes? Johnstone?
Many on here think tradition trumps all. I don't agree. If the current students want the name changed, so be it. Change it back to the original name and be done with the controversy.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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Well....
Jan 22, 2015, 4:59 PM
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Brackett Hall was named after Richard Brackett who was a chemistry professor at Clemson for nearly 50 years.
The Strode Tower was named after Henry Strode who was the first President of Clemson Agricultural College.
As is the case with many of the buildings on Clemson's campus, Mauldin Hall was named after Trusteees William and Ivy Maildin.
Sikes was named after Enoch Walter Skies who served 15 years as President of Clemson Agricultural College.
Johnstone, the Tin Cans, were named after Alan Johnstone who was a Trustee for nearly 40 years, serving as President for 22 of those years.
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Walk-On [131]
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Re: Tillman Hall
Jan 22, 2015, 1:24 PM
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Why should we keep the name of Tillman Hall the same? Why are we honoring a white supremacist and a clear cut racist? Don't feed me that "we shouldn't change history" crap because it wasn't always called Tillman. It was changed to that in 1946 so change can happen.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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but this change will not happen.***
Jan 22, 2015, 1:33 PM
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CU Medallion [64590]
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In the unlikely event this does get approved by the BOT.....
Jan 22, 2015, 2:24 PM
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I doubt they'd be able to generate enough support in the SCGA to get it changed.
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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What was the 1st name?***
Jan 22, 2015, 7:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Tillman Hall ] |
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Orange Blooded [3977]
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Re: Tillman Hall
Jan 22, 2015, 4:16 PM
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I just don't understand how its been around this long and now all of a sudden there is a problem with the name. Why wasn't it a problem last year? or the year before that? or in the last 10-20 years. I guess just because of all the crazy stuff that's been going over the last few months certain people just want to try to change every lil thing, even tho the majority of that group probably don't even have a clue why they are protesting....they just feel the need to join in. They are only doing this out of spite, not because they really and truly care or because it hurts their feelings.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Re: Tillman Hall
Jan 22, 2015, 10:48 PM
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Ask yourself this: if it were named after some black militant from the 1960's who dragged a whites stae senator out of his car and executed him, would you be writing today to tell us how we don't dare change the name and everyone should just get over it?
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Orange Blooded [3977]
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Re: Tillman Hall
Jan 23, 2015, 9:58 AM
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I wouldn't give 2 $hits what happened back then, I don't dwell on the past....especially a past I or most that do all the complaining were even alive in. People look to hard for something to complain about, its not like there was ever anyone out front of Tillman Hall boasting or making fun of everything that happened in the past. Its brought up for no real reason, just to start something, let history be history....you would think people would just be happy its not like it use to be back in the day. But certain people are never satisfied no matter what changes are made in the world, there will always be something else to complain about.
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Trainer [33]
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Re: Tillman Hall
Jan 23, 2015, 10:57 AM
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Honestly, as a 40 year old white male from SC I had never even cared who Ben Tilman was or even given this issue any thought. Now that I've been forced to consider it I have formed a very simple opinion... The name should be removed or if we insist Tilman's contributions warrants this kind of recognition regardless of the negative connotations then we could just add '/ Gantt' afterwards to recognize another great part of Clemson history and demonstrate how we have moved beyond these old issues. As a third generation Clemson alum I personally think having the main building named after Tilman is embarrassing and hate that folks have to read threads like this one. If no one felt it needed to be named after him until the mid 40's, 20 years before the university integratedthen I can see it as being put there simply to make an embarrassing political statement about a culture that I like most other Christian Americans of today no longer support and should be embarrassed to be associate with. It doesn't mean I have to forget and I can still recognize good deeds without flying a flag or banner but if I believe that banner or emblem to represent something contrary to my beliefs I'd just as soon take it down.
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CU Guru [1898]
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You are exactly right. Back when Ben Tillman was
Jan 23, 2015, 1:33 AM
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alive, and much, much later, many, if not most politicians were segregationists (racists in today's lingo). But that unfortunate episode in our history, is, in fact, history. What is missing in this debate by many in 2015, is that Harvey Ghant, was the first black admitted to a South Carolina white-only university. He arrived and walked into Tillman Hall. That act made the historical fact of Ben Tillman come the full circle of "then and now." History is history. Move on.
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Trainer [33]
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Re: Tillman Hall
Jan 23, 2015, 11:31 AM
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Honestly, as a 40 year old white male from SC I had never even cared who Ben Tilman was or even given this issue any thought. Now that I've been forced to consider it I have formed a very simple opinion... The name should be removed or if we insist Tilman's contributions warrants this kind of recognition regardless of the negative connotations then we could just add '/ Gantt' afterwards to recognize another great part of Clemson history and demonstrate how we have moved beyond these old issues. As a third generation Clemson alum I personally think having the main building named after Tilman is embarrassing and hate that folks have to read threads like this one. If no one felt it needed to be named after him until the mid 40's, 20 years before the university integratedthen I can see it as being put there simply to make an embarrassing political statement about a culture that I like most other Christian Americans of today no longer support and should be embarrassed to be associate with. It doesn't mean I have to forget and I can still recognize good deeds without flying a flag or banner but if I believe that banner or emblem to represent something contrary to my beliefs I'd just as soon take it down.
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