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Topic: I don't understand those who don't understand
Replies: 30   Last Post: Oct 20, 2019 6:57 PM by: viztiz®
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I don't understand those who don't understand

[22]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 11:36 AM
 

Why are there 1000s of posts every day about why "the talking heads" aren't giving us the same respect as everyone else.

It's very simple!

Clemson DOES. NOT. LOOK. AS. GOOD. THIS. YEAR. AS. LAST. And anyone who says we do is just ignoring the truth. Sure, some of our stats are as good, or better. But we don't LOOK like we did last year. Especially our offense when compared to some others. And that matters. In this CFP era, the eye test matters, whether we like it or not.

As you know, I'm a Sr. VP of one of the largest Media companies in the world. And I HATE what I'm seeing from these so-called sports journalist. But Jesse Palmer got one thing right (one and only one), when he said "Lawrence is making mistakes that the other high profile QBs aren't making."

No one can deny that. None of them have 8 INTs. All of them are putting up better numbers in the first 3 quarters than Trevor. Sorry, but that fact alone negates the "he barely plays the second half" argument. Compare oranges to oranges by looking at first half stats. He is behind Tua, Burrows and 4 others, in nearly every column.

SO, while I agree they are harsh on us, fans who say it's completely unwarranted are simply ignoring the facts.

What they are seeing gives them no reason to believe we can win the natty. But we know things they chose to ignore. Like the heart this team has. The coaching staff. The way we mature players through in-game reps. How we are built to get better as the season progresses. These intangibles are what gives us the edge. And quite frankly, I'm OK if they don't shine a light on that stuff. I'm content being trashed, then making them look like fools in the end. Call it sweet justice. But don't call it unfounded.

PLEASE, for the love of football, stop talking about it like a bunch of cry babies. We are not Scar. Tigers don't whine. We win.

Go Tigers!

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..:: ru4god2 ::..


So it's partly your fault... Kudos for fessin' up.***

[2]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 11:49 AM
 



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Hold on there, in this CFP era, the eye test is supposed to

[2]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 11:49 AM
 

have very little to no impact. That's the whole point of the CFP. Objective criteria. It is my contention however, that CFP committee members are human, and as hard as they may try to remain objective, are indeed susceptible to the non-stop message of the media.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: I don't understand those who don't understand

[1]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 11:56 AM
 

For the past 4 years, the AP poll ranked us lower than the initial CFP rankings in 3 years and identically for one year. Never did the AP rank us higher than the AP on the initial poll.

Probably safe to assume the same for this year. Guess we will have to wait and see how this years CFP committee assesses the performance of the Tigers. ....


Re: I don't understand those who don't understand


Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:09 PM
 

We’ve also had quality wins in past years for the committee to point to like ND, Auburn, Louisville, FSU, A&M last year, Syracuse last year, etc... who were all ranked. That doesn’t look to be the case this year. I wouldn’t be surprised to see us lower in the initial CFP poll.


Re: I don't understand those who don't understand

[1]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:20 PM
 

Clemson2003 luckily if Clemson keeps winning and wins the ACC the lowest you will see the Tigers in the final poll(that really counts) is 4th.
The whole system was based off conference champions and "AGREED UPON BY THE CONFERENCES"! So, quality wins or ranked opponents to heck!
Side-note: this is the reason the initial polls are a problem. B/C Wake didn't start the season ranked and play in the ACC their 6-1 record won't have them ranked. Yet, Missouri was ranked and they lost to Wyoming!
FSU has only lost to ranked Clemson, Wake, Boise St and UVA ( ranked or were ranked I should specify ). That's the bias and unfair play going on.
Florida gets credit for struggling with an unranked SCar where as Clemson doesn't vs. UNC. The same UNC that beat SCAR who went "TO ATHENS AND BEAT GEORGIA"!

In short, they carry on like Clemson must beat everyone by 80 points or it's a disappointing outing "b/c the competition is so lowly"!
Many of you all seem to have the same take! But have simply forgotten The Tigers have had the same competition 2 out of the last 3 years!


Based On Perception Of Competition


Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:29 PM
 

The OP comments and many of the folks talking trash about Clemson is not based so much on Clemson. It's based on Clemson's competition.
These people feel like Clemson should be beating everyone by 80 or something. The bar has been set unrealistic. And has been set unfairly high.

40 ppg by the offense.
12 ppg given up by the defense.

All right at what we have done in past years when the Tigers have went on and dominated teams like: Alabama, Ohio St., Notre Dame, Oklahoma, etc.

***Seems the only way we could impress some of these folks is by beating folks 80 to 0 and not allow over 5 1st downs. And then it will be - what's wrong with Clemson they gave up 5 first downs! They aren't as good as last year! Like some doof-us-ees would say! Clemson could very easily have been the NC winner 3 of the past 4 years(2015 no Mike Williams or Mackenzie Alexander and Bama on side kick and fake FG). Time for these folks to start giving credit where credit is all OP.


Re: I don't understand those who don't understand


Posted: Oct 20, 2019 1:18 PM
 

You’re exactly right, win and we’re in. I just wouldn’t be surprised if it’s as a 3 or 4 seed.


Re: I don't understand those who don't understand

[7]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 11:57 AM
 

Nonsense. You focus on TL's interceptions? What about the other side of the ball??

Bama, LSU, and Oklahoma are not close to what Venables brings with this Clemson defense.

And what bout the plays TL DOES make that Burrows, Hurts, Fields, and others simply cannot make?

You talk about eye test, then compare us to ourselves last December and January. I agree we do not look like that (yet). But how about comparing us to other teams right now? If you think Bama and LSU pass some "eye test" that Clemson does not, then you and I have very different eyes. We would crush either of those.


Though I read where our stats are better than last year...


Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:04 PM
 

...exception is 8 ints versus 4 last year. But, all other stats are improved...am I wrong?

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Nah! By The Numbers

[3]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:08 PM
 

I don't think you understand the fact: The Tigers are scoring at nearly the same clip as last year: 2018 through 7 games 42 ppg. 2019 through 7 40 ppg. The defense is doing better than last year: 2018 through 7 Tigers gave up 13.42 ppg. Through 7 2019 Tigers have given up 12 ppg.

Just about identical competition. In fact, some of the same competition. The same teams that "didn't prepare Clemson" for tough teams like Notre Dame and then Alabama. Yeah right!

That's why you are seeing those post! Nobody is crying some people can see through the propaganda is all. They really don't want the Tigers to be a part of the CFP. We have looked worse versus ACC teams and really that is where your post should have started in my opinion. No. You didn't ask me for it. But, all of it is an indictment of the conference Clemson is contractually bound to. It seems they are trying to find a loop hole to make a case for the Tigers not getting in.

In 2016 - we lost to "lowly ACC" team Pitt! Let alone struggled against - "we lost"! At home no doubt - but we still got in b/c the Tigers were that good.
We had a scare at home vs Syracuse and could have easily have lost that game if the 4th down pass was batted down or dropped by Brice to Higgins. But, we got in and dominated the competition.

The expectations placed on Clemson are so unreal it isn't funny. We win going away and still drop in the polls RU4GOD2® simply because the media thinks we should put 80 up on our competition. It's unreal and unfair and this is the reason for the post! The way our coaching staff give playing time will not allow for those types of blowouts. They are trying to force Dabo to run up the score and "I am glad he won't allow that to compromise his principles"!


you and I agree***


Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:53 PM
 



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..:: ru4god2 ::..


you and I agree***


Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:53 PM
 



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..:: ru4god2 ::..


I agree

[1]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:08 PM
 

People will probably flame me for this but it seems like T Lawrence is operating with a little too much impunity and keeps calling his own number to throw it deep. He got lucky with that TD to Ross before the half and very easily could have tallied his third INT of the game there. On the season he has at least 4 INTs (both from yesterday and two from other games) that were absolute terrible decisions and should never have been thrown.

All this leads to RU4G's point; for the most part our offense has struggled to come out and execute our initial offensive game plan.


Re: I agree

[1]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 1:26 PM
 

No. He didn't get lucky with the Td before the half. Ross called for the pass and he threw it high in the back of the end zone where only Ross could catch it.


Re: I agree


Posted: Oct 20, 2019 5:54 PM
 

You don't know the difference between skill and luck


1st five games last year 2 pt win over a&m 4 pt win over SYC

[1]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:09 PM
 

we looked about the same last year as we do this year. We beat the carp out of everyone this year but unc

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That’s fine for Palmer to say TL is making mistakes

[3]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:12 PM
 

I think TL and Dabo have both acknowledged that. For me, the problem is when they extrapolate that to the whole team. Based on all of our scores but one and our defensive stats, that clearly isn’t the case. It also isn’t the case that these other SEC teams walk on water compared to us. Bama struggled last night against a pitiful TN team. UGA lost to the Coots and took over two quarters to even score on KY. LSU looked very mediocre against Miss St too. Oklahoma barely won by a TD last week against what’s turning out to be a likely overrated Texas team. And everyone saw what Wisconsin did against unranked Illinois yesterday. Ohio St is about the only team still walking the walk, but they will likely have their annual Big 10 loss again too.

So, TL still a little off? Yes. But the fact that we’re able to compensate for that and still win 45-10 is huge. When TL puts it back together (as DW4 did, and he will), nobody will be stopping this team.


DW4 had 17 ints his championship year, 8 ints after 7 games

[2]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:17 PM
 

I am about as worried as Dabo is about TL.

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Correct on all points but

[3]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:17 PM
 

there is one thing that both you and the talking heads are forgetting. Out of all the front runners (OSU, OU, LSU and Bama) we have the best defense. It’s true that the offense needs to get it together but all of the focus is on Lawrence and the offense while the defense is quietly having a monster season so far. I hope all the pundits and fans continue to overlook our defense. You can bet that the committee is not.

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Agree on the D


Posted: Oct 20, 2019 6:53 PM
 

This D is stacking up to be very, very good. Defense goes a long way in the CFP!


Where Your Argument Falls Apart

[1]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:24 PM
 

Is last year at this point in the season Clemson was playing roughly at this level of performance, slightly worse actually. The media Effers are comparing end of season 2018 Clemson to early-mid season 2019 Clemson.

The portrayal is WRONG and it is CONTRIVED. Don't shill for these guys.

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Re: Where Your Argument Falls Apart

[1]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:44 PM
 

True. Every “expert” looks at the Tigers through a different microscope than some of the other powerhouse teams. That is certainly true of this years edition. In the last few years Clemson has shown the football world something special with guys like Boyd and Watson and now Lawrence with his select group of teammates. Even the slightest slip up causes concern and we all know that many are looking for that little glitch in the Tiger game. And they have this big microscope! Trevor Lawrence may be an average quarterback to some but if all he does is win EVERY game.... I’ll take him every Saturday.


What some people just do not understand is how Dabo

[1]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:46 PM
 

ramps up his game as the season progresses. He has explained ad nauseum, and yet, even those who think they understand simply are blind to what stares them in the face. It's unfortunate that some cannot grasp how Dabo changes gears and has his team steam-rolling opponents by playoff time. Teams should try to schedule to play CLEMSON early in the season, before he reaches high gear.

Okay - I'll try to give you some examples, hoping that you might catch on.

Those complaining why Potter makes the 51-yard FG, and then Dabo brings in Sawecki to kick the next long FG. Hmmm? He's getting them ready for the CFP.

Those complaining that our D allows garbage time scores while our team is filled with subs. Hmmm? He's getting them ready for the CFP.

Those complaining about Dabo chewing Potter out for the chip shot FG. Hmmm? He's getting them ready for the CFP.

Tee Higgins did not get a pass thrown his way until very late in the game yesterday. Tee is arguably our best receiver and will play on Sundays. Dabo is letting others catch the ball. Hmmm? He's getting them ready for the CFP.

I know - you still don't understand, and probably never will. But we can just listen to the rants and say "Bless their heart".


Re: I don't understand those who don't understand

[3]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 12:54 PM
 

The pundits, plus many of us who are not qualified to assess the overall game of football, are looking at only one aspect of the game, the quarterback. Granted, Lawrence has not Looked like the QB we saw in the national championship game, but there is more to the game than how well the QB looks. The "experts" have said nothing about our running game, which is a vast improvement. When our DL went to the pros, everyone thought our DL this year would look like a sieve. This year's team hasen't missed a beat. Let's look at the team as a whole, not at just one position.

Seven wins with six dominant performances by the team speaks volumes of where we are. We are not perfect by a long shot. Dabo and staff build for the future, the future not measured by years, the future measured by the next game and then the next game and then the next game. This system appears to work as measured by our success currently as well as in the past. Perfection is the goal but it's dang hard to achieve, even with all the resources in place.

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At this point in the season we look better than last year.***

[1]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 1:09 PM
 



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with WAY less QB drama


Posted: Oct 20, 2019 1:25 PM
 

we OK.

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Re: I don't understand those who don't understand


Posted: Oct 20, 2019 6:22 PM
 

I wouldn’t waste my time watching ESPN. Don’t care what those “pundits “ think. They are selling sec. Go TIGERS!


Re: I don't understand those who don't understand

[1]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 6:44 PM
 

Win out and we in. Ain't it nice to be arguing If we are 1 or 4. Great Time to be a Tiger. Enjoy the ride!

2020 purple level member

Re: I don't understand those who don't understand


Posted: Oct 20, 2019 6:53 PM
 


Win out and we in. Ain't it nice to be arguing If we are 1 or 4. Great Time to be a Tiger. Enjoy the ride!




Exactly right! Win and we in. The most the committee will do is place us 4th which will likely put us against LSU(because they will beat Bama). Ohio State will play Oklahoma. Tons of points in that one.

Oklahoma beat Texas yes; but dang Texas gave up 48 to Les Miles and Kansas! Are they really that good then? IDK. Maybe.
Ohio St has played some teams with anemic offenses which guarantees their offense gets extra possessions! Be interesting to see them play someone who can punch them back! But like Oklahoma, IDK how good they are.

I do know LSU and Bama have holes in their game. We do too(turnovers) and false starts and personal fouls need to be cleaned up for the Tigers. But, we are more complete than both of those two squads. They are getting the "SEC PASS" in the AP poll ahead of the LSU/Bama game! Also, part of me thinks, it is a built in excuse in case they lose(Tua being injured). The committee would have to consider that so they will say. Not.

It will be fun to compete with whoever it ends up being! Assuming we handle our business in Tiger Town.


Re: I don't understand those who don't understand

[1]
Posted: Oct 20, 2019 6:57 PM
 

That the “Senior VP” of the largest media companies in the world says “natty” explains everything about the state of media today.

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