Here's a good summary:

All-In [28802]

TigerPulse: 100%

Posts: 58393

Joined: 11/14/03

Nov 22, 2019, 3:32 PM

The House’s first two witnesses were the administration’s former and current acting ambassador to Ukraine: Yovanovitch and Taylor, respectively. Both witnesses went after the president’s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, whom Trump was using as his ad-hoc point man for Ukraine throughout this year. Yovanovitch testified that Giuliani had worked with corrupt U.S. and Ukrainian businessmen as part of a smear campaign to get Trump to fire her, which he did in May.

Taylor, who was brought on to replace her, testified that he soon learned that he was only nominally in charge of Ukrainian policy—Trump had entrusted the issue he really cared about, getting Ukraine to investigate the DNC and the Bidens, to the “irregular channel” of Giuliani and another political ally, U.S. ambassador to the EU, Gordon Sondland. Taylor also testified that he soon learned about the irregular channel’s plan: to force Ukraine to commit publicly to those investigations by withholding the possibility of a state visit and congressionally appropriated military aid until they did so.

Super Tuesday: Alexander Vindman and Jennifer Williams, Tim Morrison and Kurt Volker

Next up were the first two witnesses who listened in on Trump’s July 25 phone call with the president of Ukraine: Lt. Col. Vindman, a top Ukraine expert at the National Security Council, and Williams, an adviser to Mike Pence. Both testified that they had found the call unsettling and inappropriate, and both claimed that no one they knew in the administration had supported the decision to hold up the aid. Vindman also pushed back against the notion that the White House had placed the recording of the Ukraine call on a secure server to cover it up: “I didn’t take it as anything nefarious,” he said.

The same afternoon, investigators heard from two former officials: Vindman’s previous NSC boss, Tim Morrison, and the former special envoy to Ukraine, Kurt Volker. Morrison disagreed with the morning witnesses’ assessment of the July 25 call, testifying that he believed nothing illegal had taken place on the call. Meanwhile, Volker claimed that he was unaware that U.S. military aid had been linked to Ukraine committing to Trump’s investigations, insisted he had not known those investigations were connected to the Bidens, and denounced what he described as “Giuliani’s conspiracy theory” about them.

Wednesday: Gordon Sondland, Laura Cooper and David Hale

This was a big one: Sondland, who worked directly with Giuliani to help Trump secure his desired investigations from Ukraine, testified that he and Giuliani had indeed pushed a quid pro quo and that he had worked with Giuliani “at the express direction of the president of the United States.” He also claimed that “everyone was in the loop” about the scheme, including Pence, Pompeo, and acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney. He was careful, however, to point out that while he had spoken with Trump directly about the investigations, it was only Giuliani who’d ever spoken explicitly about a quid pro quo.

Cooper, a Defense Department official, testified that Ukrainian officials had begun asking about the hold-up of the aid on July 25—the same day Trump had spoken to Ukrainian President Zelensky and long before the White House had suggested the Ukrainians had known about it. Hale, the third-ranking official at the State Department, was one of three officials that Republicans had listed on their witness list who would testify in the proceedings. He said the firing of Yovanovitch was wrong and agreed that withholding aid from an ally to compel an announcement of the investigation into a political rival was “completely inappropriate.”

Thursday: Fiona Hill and David Holmes

Hill, a former Russia expert at the White House, is primarily noteworthy because she tussled with Sondland over what she took to be his elbowing in on Ukraine during her time in the administration. During her testimony Thursday, she backed up Taylor’s testimony about two separate chains of command on Ukraine: “He was being involved in a domestic political errand. And we were being involved in national security foreign policy, and those two things had just diverged.”

Holmes, meanwhile, is an aide to Bill Taylor, notable because he overheard a phone conversation between Sondland and Trump the day after the infamous Trump/Ukraine call. Holmes testified that he heard Trump ask Sondland if Zelensky would “do the investigation,” and Sondland told him Zelensky “loves your ###” and “will do anything you ask.”

flag link

military_tech

thumb_down

thumb_up

in order to try and claim Trump didn't know about the QPQ which is impossible considering we have the call summary where Trump mentions both the military aid and the investigations into Biden.

I could understand some thinking there wasn't enough here to impeach IF we didn't have the call summary because there would be no direct linkage to Trump (other than implied through Rudy) knowing about the QPQ. But, since we have the call summary it's 100% clear what transpired was a QPQ of military aid for the announcement of investigations.

Couple of other facts:

-The timing of the release of the aid being shortly after the whistleblower/investigations into the QDP start (Trump released aid after he was caught).

-Zelensky was set to make the announcement of the investigation on CNN but backed out once the aid was released (confirming his statement was tied to the military aid).

-Popular defense of Trump is he cared about corruption, yet Vindman testified that he prepared talking points on corruption for Trump to bring up with his phone calls with Zelensky, yet in neither phone call does Trump bring up corruption. We also have Ukraine being the only time Trump seemingly has ever cared about anti-corruption tied to aid (Israel/S.Arabia being most obvious examples of other possible cases where corruption should matter).

Why can't Trump just admit he made a mistake?

He can't

They'll go along with anything he says or does, though***

Re: They'll go along with anything he says or does, though***

This is not new

what mistake?

Seems a good idea to negotiate with the other party’s $$$***

he has made mistakes, trusting sessions, trusting ryan

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

lyin ryan and lyin sessions

It's always somebody else's fault

Re: It's always somebody else's fault

Yet, he's still trying to kiss that ring.

Re: LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

What does he stand to gain by doing that?

gaining independents and democrat votes

Same reason Clinton, Reagan, and Nixon did it

why change?

Because he'd be admitting what everybody already knows

trump blew up the R establishment and you mad lol***

Trump is the R establishment***

that is closer to batshit crazy

What do you think "establishment" means?***

I think this is correct.

You're both right.***

Re: Because he'd be admitting what everybody already knows

This is most like Iran/Contra. Forgot about that one. ***

The difference is Reagan's admin was competent***

remember when reagan got hosed by the democrat on

Re: remember when reagan got hosed by the democrat on

I respect people who admit and learn from their mistakes.***

Re: I respect people who admit and learn from their mistakes.***

When's the last time you heard anyone in government

not during wartime***

Re: not during wartime***

Re: When's the last time you heard anyone in government

It happens, as I alluded to above***

What's worse is being wrong, not admitting you were wrong,

I think he could admit that the whole situation looked

It didn't just look improper.

Re: It didn't just look improper.

Who did they wanna call as witnesses?

Here's a good summary:

This and the transcript are all you need

lol

How is it not evidence?

So if I go to a trial on you and say

Re: This and the transcript are all you need

Re: This and the transcript are all you need

You'd have to believe Rudy was in charge w/o Trump knowing

Uh, welcome to Obama!!

you sound bitter***

Re: Why can't Trump just admit he made a mistake?

Right? I don't get the love

narcissists don't do that

Trump is actually giving me insight into my fiancee's mom

Would you admit you made a mistake when there are

Because no one can prove his only motive in asking...

Same reason why your parents wouldn’t...

TigerBoard POTD