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Topic: Would BB haters please just wait
Replies: 53   Last Post: Feb 20, 2019 7:20 AM by: BengalBilly
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Would BB haters please just wait


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 10:52 PM
 

until the end of the game. How impatient can you be?


Re: Would BB haters please just wait

[1]
Posted: Feb 19, 2019 10:53 PM
 

Game was over by half sadly.


Re: Would BB haters please just wait

[1]
Posted: Feb 19, 2019 10:54 PM
 

This game was over with 8 min left in the first half


Re: Would BB haters please just wait


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 10:54 PM
 

I get the frustration with BB but I’ve never understood why that dude catches so much crap...It’s not easy coaching below average basketball players..

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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln


Re: Would BB haters please just wait

[2]
Posted: Feb 19, 2019 10:59 PM
 

Then go get above average basketball players...oh wait, he can’t recruit


I'm amazed at the miracles some of you expect our basketball


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:07 PM
 

coach to work. Do you realize how difficult it is to recruit top talent to Clemson to play basketball? It's literally never happened consistently in our history. Our most talented teams occurred as a result of NCAA infractions.

Brad isn't a bad recruiter. He now has good facilities and his best class is coming in later this year. I don't think it's unreasonable to see what his 2020 class looks like.

And since I'm sure you'll bring up Barnes and Purnell, their Clemson recruiting resulted in a grand total of two NBA players (Buckner was Barnes's only recruit who had an NBA career, and Booker was Purnell's only one).

FYI, Brownell has put 3 players in the NBA thus far (McDaniels, Blossomgame, and Grantham).

2019 white level member

Re: I'm amazed at the miracles some of you expect our basketball

[1]
Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:11 PM
 

Fans like you are the problem with Clemson Basketball. So 9 years and 2 NCAA appearances. 1 sweet 16. This is acceptable?! Stop making so many excuses.


Of course it isn't acceptable.


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:25 PM
 

It is acceptable to you that we rarely hire coaches who are successful at Clemson, and the few times we have, we can't keep them?

2019 white level member

Brownell has openly admitted he does not recruit for offense


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:24 PM
 

Even though he knows that's his biggest weakness. Even his own wife said that's idiotic. Brownell gets the players he wants. These are the guys he goes after, it's just that he does not care if anybody on his team can actually score points.

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So you don't think our coach wants players who can score?


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:26 PM
 

Surely you don't believe your own drivel.

2019 white level member

Yes. Because Brownell says so. And there's 9 years of Clemson bball that proves it.***


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:30 PM
 



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Great, so what is your solution?


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:34 PM
 

You clearly want another coach. Who do you want Clemson to hire? What will you pay him? And what other changes would you make to the program, if any?

2019 white level member

how long is enough***


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:37 PM
 



2019 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg


I don't really care if they keep him or not


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 12:12 AM
 

I don't have confidence the department will hire anyone any better. But it's a joke to say he can't get recruits, that's not what's happening, this team is the type of players he wants. He has no interest in recruiting players for offense, he has said he doesn't even pay attention when a player he's scouting is on offense, so to keep saying it's just too hard to recruit to Clemson is bull.

2019 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Why do you always frame the "who can we get?"

[1]
Posted: Feb 20, 2019 2:11 AM
 

Question as a gotcha question? As if there aren't tons of coaches around the country who would jump at an opportunity to coach in the ACC at Clemson.

I'm not giving up on Brownell but the "who else could we possibly get?" Argument is never a good reason to keep a coach if it's past their time.


Re: So you don't think our coach wants players who can score?


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:35 AM
 

Of course he wants players that can score JK.... I think most people’s arguements aren’t that he doesn’t want good players or wants to win, it’s that he can’t achieve that. These past 2 classes have been loaded in talent in S.C. which is unheard of... how many did he sign?

If you can’t sign top in state talent you have a problem. See U of S.C. football... only success they’ve ever had.


I thought last year was "probably going to be


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 12:39 AM
 

"..our best year ever"?

I like Brad. But if we don't make the tournament this year his time is up.


I know you don't mean to, but to me you've proven


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 2:40 AM
 

my point about a certain amount of coaching. BB has more NBA players than Barnes or OP yet both of them had more tourney appearances with less, than BB. Yes, we went to the sweet 16 last year, great year, but now we follow it up with this?


Re: Would BB haters please just wait


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 10:59 PM
 

That BB recruited! Good Luck
Tigers !

2019 white level member

Re: Maybe he should recruit above avg players***


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 10:59 PM
 




Re: Would BB haters please just wait


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 10:59 PM
 

He recruited those below average basketball players if my memory serves me


Re: Would BB haters please just wait

[1]
Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:01 PM
 

That's the point. Get a real coach who can recruit and evaluate talent. I'm not talking transfers. There's no reason Clyde trapp should be on our roster. He is DII talent. Can't shoot. Plays out of control. Always out of position on defense.


Re: Would BB haters please just wait

[1]
Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:10 PM
 

You people act like Clemson isn’t an appealing place doe basketball....It’s not...Y’all act like Brownell can just have the pick of liter to any player he wants...he can’t. Why would ANYONE come to Clemson with a legit offer from other top conference programs?

Same rules apply to Clemson football.

military_donation.jpg

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln


Re: Would BB haters please just wait


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 10:59 PM
 

Then finally recruit above average players which he has never done


Clemson's admin needs to provide the resources needed


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:02 PM
 

for our coach to recruit at a high level.

2019 white level member

Re: Clemson's admin needs to provide the resources- examples

[2]
Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:06 PM
 

I've seen this statement a lot and I'm curious if you could provide some examples as to how the admin. doesn't support the program. I'm not asking to be snarky, just curious. Is it more then just increasing our budget for assistant coaches? Has BB specifically asked for certain things and the admin balked?


Here are some examples.

[4]
Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:19 PM
 

Short version: Brad has had to scratch and claw for everything he has gotten.

Brad asked for new facilities soon after he was hired. The administration wasn't enthusiastic about this, so Brad had to meet with donors himself to raise the necessary funds. He worked tirelessly on this (in addition to his regular coaching and recruiting duties, of course) for a long time to make it happen. The facilities themselves were originally supposed to be brand new, but part way into the process the administration decided to renovate Littlejohn rather than building the brand new arena Brad really wanted.

Brad asked for an increased assistant coach budget for several years, and finally got that (somewhat) in 2017. As you know, Brad has lost some very good assistants since he has been at Clemson. A couple of them took head coaching jobs elsewhere, which is understandable, but others left because they didn't get appropriate raises from Clemson. This frequent turnover during Brad's first 5 years or so hampered recruiting, and is part of the reason why people here unfairly say that Brad is a bad recruiter. When players see their primary recruiter leave, they aren't going to be as interested in Clemson.

Support staff has become a big deal in major college basketball. Only recently (as in within the last 2 years) has Brad gotten approval for additional staff hires. Some of these are low-level assistant coaches who help with player development, while others assist in recruiting or on social media. While these hires have been very helpful, more are needed.

When Radakovich and Brownell had their end of season meeting in 2017, soon after we lost in the NIT to Oakland, both sides had a very honest dialogue. Radakovich got Brownell to agree to a decrease in his buyout, in exchange for a contract extension (for recruiting purposes) and some of the aforementioned changes to the program. Brad knew that these changes were very badly needed, and believed in himself enough to agree to the reduced buyout in exchange. I believe it was also a moment of clarity for Radakovich because he realized just how neglected the basketball program had been.

I am encouraged by DRad's actions thus far, and am hopeful that the AD's support for basketball will continue to be better as it seems to be recently.

2019 white level member

Re: Here are some examples.


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:37 PM
 

This is good perspective. Thanks!

2019 purple level member

Hmmmm....


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 4:27 AM
 

You just described a lot of the struggles Dabo (who you seem to be so jealous of) had to endure.

There’s one major difference, though. Dabo created his own increased assistant coach budget when he felt like he had to. He took it out of his own salary. Why don’t you do that, Brad? You get paid 2.5 Million for putting a crappy product on the floor. Let’s see...do you think you could scrape by in life if you “only” made 1 Million? Well there ya go. You just increased your assistant coach budget by 1.5 Million!

And no Dabo doesn’t have to do that anymore. You know why? He produced 2 national championships, and there look to be more on the horizon.

It’s called taking it upon yourself and doing what you have to do to build a program

2019 white level member

Re: Clemson's admin needs to provide the resources needed


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:07 PM
 

What resources are the administration not providing?

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I feel that they have been doing fine for the last 2 years.


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:21 PM
 

Generally speaking, Dan Radakovich seems to care about basketball.

Of course, that's not enough time for those changes to magically result in top 20 recruiting classes. However, recruiting has definitely improved since then.

My hope is that the administrative support continues.

2019 white level member

Re: Clemson's admin needs to provide the resources needed


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:13 PM
 

Why was Purnell and Barnes able to pull in top teir classes?!


What top tier classes?!?


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:22 PM
 

Purnell had just one top 25 class. I believe Barnes had just one also.

We've never had a coach pull in top 25 classes consistently.

2019 white level member

They enjoy whining and complaining.

[1]
Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:01 PM
 

Many of these people were nowhere to be found when we were winning 4 in a row.

2019 white level member

Re: They enjoy whining and complaining.


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:05 PM
 

You one to talk. You b1tch about the football team all year. You still think our o coordinaters suck ???


My only complaints during football season


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:28 PM
 

were when our OCs were trying to justify playing their boy Kelly Bryant instead of utilizing our offensive weapons. That was mostly the A&M game.

Besides, I expect a lot more from a coaching staff that is the highest paid in the country, with top talent, outstanding facilities, and great fan support. I'd love for our basketball program to have a fraction of that.

2019 white level member

Re: My only complaints during football season

[1]
Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:48 AM
 

Thank you for the input. I really do appreciate the civil dialogue. You are obviously closer the basketball situation than myself.

I will say Dabo did not start with a high salary, highly paid staff positions, outstanding facilities, or top talent. Dabo and staff have earned those raises by delivering results.

I don't understand the claim about short changing resources for Clemson basketball. Sure for much of our history that is likely true but not the last two decades.

We have spent nearly $95 million on basketball facilities in the last 16 years. $31 million in 2003 and $63.5 million in 2016.

So if we have spent $125 million on football facilities, with 120 football players, that averages out to about $1,042,000 per player.

Take the $95 million on basketball divided by 27 players (14 on men's team roster this year + 13 on women's team roster), that comes to $3,518,000 per player. Nearly 3.5 times more per player spent on basketball facilities than football facilities.

Dabo did it the old fashioned way, he earned it. I hope basketball can do the same.

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Re: They enjoy whining and complaining.


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:06 PM
 

Lol. Still can’t deny this year has been highly disappointing with no reason to think next year is going to be any better.


It has been disappointing so far.


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:30 PM
 

I feel that the NCAA Tournament was a reasonable goal this year. If we don't make it, I'll be disappointed.

I am concerned about next year. I don't think it will be as awful as some here predict, but I do think we will see a drop off in wins.

2019 white level member

This is basically the same team that went


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:10 PM
 

to the Sweet 16 last year minus Devoe. Love Gabe, but he shouldn't be this important to this groups success. They've regressed, and that's hard to defend


You'd think a basketball genius would notice his team improved with a consistent scorer***


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:29 PM
 



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Then why did he recruit Zion Williamson if he doesn't want


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:36 PM
 

scorers?

2019 white level member

You're the one with all of the insider info on Zion...


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 2:52 AM
 

why don't you tell us?


LOL.


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 4:35 AM
 

It’s not about Zion Williamson. They had to recruit him. Everyone in the world was. But obviously there was little chance to get him, and I’m okay with that.

It’s about identifying talent that we can get. How did we get Hunter Renfrow to Clemson? The football staff was smart enough to identify his talent and potential, and all they had to do was beat out App State to get him. And don’t tell me that had anything to do with any budgets or fancy facilities. It’s about looking at some tape and saying “that guy is a baller.” Those exist in basketball, too.

2019 white level member

The players have played their butts off this year.


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:33 PM
 

It stinks for them, because we could easily be above .500 in the ACC with a few breaks going our way. But they didn't. Unfortunately, we've also had way too many missed shots and dumb turnovers this year. I didn't expect that with this senior-laden team.

2019 white level member

DG played over 2/3rds of the season too, and those two made


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 2:45 AM
 

a world of difference as far as chemistry...Thomas and Mitchell were openly fighting tonight and Reed seems to just go for his.


Re: They enjoy whining and complaining.


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:13 PM
 

Hey Judge,

No agenda here or snarkinress intended. I’ve noted you’re unwavering support of CBB and that of the program. You’ve also correctly asked, if not CBB, then who?

I’m also curious though as well, you’ve referred to lack of support of BBall at Clemson. What support is being withheld or is not being provided?

Again, honest question here for you and others who’d like to weigh in.

2019 purple level member

Honestly, the support has been better the past 2 years.

[1]
Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:39 PM
 

I don't feel that the program had very good support at all prior to that, but the last couple of years it seems more encouraging. My fear is that the support won't continue, in the form of not continuing to upgrade facilities regularly, having appropriate assistant coach budgets, hiring necessary support staff, etc.

Clemson needs to always look for ways to continue to improve the basketball program.

2019 white level member

Re: They enjoy whining and complaining.


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:15 PM
 

People don’t complain when you win!!! Your points are going nowhere Keller.


Re: They enjoy whining and complaining.


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:29 PM
 

When Clemson hired Brad I was upset for one reason bc of his style of play. It's like watching the gtech football team do the option. It's slow paced. Slow the game down. Play nothing but defense. First one to 54 wins. For every year of Brad's term his teams have struggled offensively outside of last year's team. It's his style of play. I believe our team needs to play with more energy on offense and really start taking more chances with offensive rebounding. It's always one and done. One rebounder or no rebounder. FSU kept 3-4 players inside the paint to go after offensive rebounds. That's alot of put backs and easy points.


Do you think Brad has been given what he needs to win?***


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:40 PM
 



2019 white level member

Re: Do you think Brad has been given what he needs to win?***

[1]
Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:45 PM
 

Absolutely not. Brad has had to fight to get any funding he can for our program. I will say that from people I know close in the program and university. Regardless the hate floating around due to gut renching loses, Brad does care about Clemson and he does want Clemson to succeed. He wants his stamp and legacy on a program, but I fear if he can't turn the tide in recruiting and get a young offensively minded assistant who can recruit.... Then he will go down very soon. That's just the truth and nature of this job.


I agree. People need to remember that the new facilities are


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 11:51 PM
 

not magic. They won't improve recruiting immediately, since recruiting these days starts when guys are in 9th and 10th grade. Now that the facilities have been in place a couple of years, and our staff has remained intact, we should start to see the true impact of the facilities on recruiting. We already have some, with the 2019 class being Brad's best so far.

2019 white level member

Funny.***


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 7:20 AM
 




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