Replies: 32
| visibility 1
|
Heisman Winner [140556]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33875
Joined: 12/5/10
|
I hear people say Bowden never won 10 games...
Nov 13, 2018, 7:57 AM
|
|
While this is true, he also only coached a couple seasons in the ACCCG era, and didn’t coach at all in the playoff era. That’s two games fewer he had to work with. Had these extra games been available during his time, I think the results could have been much different.
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2896]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 3530
Joined: 1/13/02
|
He never would have gotten to playoff so can take those 2 games away***
Nov 13, 2018, 7:58 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [36450]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 18324
Joined: 12/6/13
|
15>13 So math checks out***
Nov 13, 2018, 8:00 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64591]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88998
Joined: 3/27/01
|
The biggest problem with Bowden's teams...
Nov 13, 2018, 8:03 AM
|
|
they were terribly inconsistent (i.e., beating Miami one week and turn around a weeK later and lose to Duke).
Then, to further compound the problem, he was too stubborn and prideful to change when it was abundantly clear to everyone in the free world that what he was trying to do simply wasn't working.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7191]
TigerPulse: 70%
Posts: 20374
Joined: 8/18/06
|
Re: The biggest problem with Bowden's teams...
Nov 13, 2018, 8:13 AM
|
|
While I liked Tommy, the problem wasn't with the team, the problem was with Tommy. A team can only do so much with the talent and coaching it is given. Tommy never had the talent or depth that Dabo brings to the program. And his coaching staff, IMO, was subpar compared with the staff Dabo has assembled. I do agree that he had too much pride and was stubborn but at least he had the intelligence to recommend Dabo to Terry Don.
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [140556]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33875
Joined: 12/5/10
|
Great point.
Nov 13, 2018, 8:15 AM
|
|
Had Tommy been given the talent Dabo has been given, I think Tommy wins 10 games easily.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [49175]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 27603
Joined: 8/10/02
|
Dabo wasn't given that talent in players or coaches.
Nov 13, 2018, 8:19 AM
|
|
he went out and got it.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40777]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10678
Joined: 6/23/17
|
Absolutely correct sir.
Nov 13, 2018, 8:31 AM
|
|
And the example BigCUfan used (Miami/Duke) or getting blown out by Wake only to turn around and beat two top ten teams in the last four games is the way I will remember those years. I will always remember the look on TB’s face on the sidelines. I will always remember how, as a fan of another school put it, losing didn’t really seem to bother him. I remember an article that was written after he got canned that described his time at Clemson as a “skitzophrenic ten year tenure.” Yep that sums it up and we have him and him alone to thank for the #######ing word. Tommy is a decent guy but not a good coach.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15863]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28958
Joined: 9/18/01
|
TRUE --- BUT - Dabo didn't take over a 1 win team- CU won
Nov 13, 2018, 8:39 AM
[ in reply to Dabo wasn't given that talent in players or coaches. ] |
|
3 games the year before Bowden took over - they won 1 acc game.
1
problems with the BOT
Becky Bowman
Terrible facilities
Bowden took over a dumpster fire
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40777]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10678
Joined: 6/23/17
|
Re: TRUE --- BUT - Dabo didn't take over a 1 win team- CU won
Nov 13, 2018, 9:32 AM
|
|
The first couple of years Tommy was here were good because of Rich Rod. Bowden had a decade to get it right and couldn’t do it. Ford had no problem winning 10+ games multiple times and played only 12 games a year.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6350
Joined: 7/20/18
|
Re: Great point.
Nov 13, 2018, 8:36 AM
[ in reply to Great point. ] |
|
But that is in part the problem. Tommy did have 99% of the talent Dabo had in Dabo's first 5 years. It wasn't until 13-14 did Dabo really hit the next level and even then, it was a result of Dabo cracking into that 10w+ mark and win a few big games. Tommy recruited well... he just did not develop the players as well as he could, especially in the mental game. Tommy is an excellent coach, he just want not that "next level" coach but he was the right guy to pull us out of the late 90s.
The issue with Tommy was mental. He truly believed the game was won/lost in preparation. That was good for some decent wins but also cause to bad losses. Thus if the game was not going to plan, you could see Tommy start to "fold". Thus the team would fold. Making adjustments and/or motivation early into the game was a struggle for him and you could see him "hang his head".
Now, give Tommy credit. Dabo's preparation are exactly a byproduct to Tommy. You can see that Dabo is a evolution/revolution of the Bowden tree. The difference is that Dabo is a lot more natural at finessing attitude, mental thinking leading to to and during/mid-game. Dabo prepares well and then more importantly, he also adjusts how the team is thinking. College teams are inconsistent and motivation/mental toughness is key between 7/8 win and 10 wins.
Case in point Syracuse 2018. If that was a Tommy team, we would have lost 30-10. Dabo makes a team believe even when things are going sideways. Thus he grinds out a win every so often. Even game we lost, the team did not quit (Bama Jan 16) Cuse '17. Even his 2010 season showed that when we really were not that good, we played every down. I hate to say it, but even the 70 VW or '13 FSU game proved it was not a Tommy team and hustled while still being ran-out of the stadium. We were being beaten soundly on the field, but Dabo was not beaten in the minds of his players. That is why '13 was still able to get to 11 wins and knock off 31-0hioState.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2347]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1742
Joined: 8/4/04
|
Re: Great point.
Nov 13, 2018, 9:18 AM
|
|
Excellent coach ?? Then why are no teams knocking on his door ?
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6350
Joined: 7/20/18
|
Re: Great point.
Nov 13, 2018, 11:50 AM
|
|
You can fault him for not winning the right hardware but he won more often than not at 8/9 season and did so without getting the NCAA's eye. Yeah, not completing the goal that was the frustrating part and being always on the cusp and then failing. Still, he was .615 with us after rebuilding that West left. Look around to any current ACC coach and ask if there is a better HC than Tommy... only Dabo exist... maybe Richt (same boat of sorts). If he was at NC State, Coots, or anywhere without NC aspirations, then he would have been a longer-tenure coach. He was good... just not what we demanded. Still, he set the foundation for our current success and did so cleanly that did not force Dabo into an environment of NCAA sanctions.
I would be shocked to hear if he didn't have offers but would they be offers he would want? I don't know if he enjoyed the atmosphere in the last few years.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2112]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 3058
Joined: 6/19/10
|
Re: Great point.
Nov 13, 2018, 8:49 AM
[ in reply to Great point. ] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3141]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2981
Joined: 11/11/02
|
Were we as Tiger Nation willing to pay for it back then?
Nov 13, 2018, 11:34 AM
[ in reply to Great point. ] |
|
I think we wanted it, but I think the facility (Plex) was needed before.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7219]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6986
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I hear people say Bowden never won 10 games...
Nov 13, 2018, 8:09 AM
|
|
Not Bowden again. FM I know you are just trying to stir the pot. We now have a coach that refers to his team as “we”. We previously had a coach that referred to his team as “they”. That is really all I need to say on this topic.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7238]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3468
Joined: 7/27/13
|
Bowden did win 10 games in a season
Nov 13, 2018, 8:10 AM
|
|
Bobby Bowden, set The all-time standard (14 season) which belongs to the Florida State legend, who won at least 10 games every year from 1987-2000. Tommy Bowden meh, not so much. The only thing I credit him for is hiring Dabo which was the best thing that could have ever happened to Clemson Football. I'll also give him credit for his Loyalty to the Clemson program even after resigning.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26514]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20654
Joined: 9/2/02
|
Ah yes ... the lost decade of Bowden
Nov 13, 2018, 8:12 AM
|
|
remember it well.
It felt like being an NC State fan.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [67851]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 115481
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Ah yes ... the lost decade of Bowden
Nov 13, 2018, 8:36 AM
|
|
I think back to the lost Hatfield and Bowden decades. Oh neither lasted that long. It just felt like they did
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [67851]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 115481
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I hear people say Bowden never won 10 games...
Nov 13, 2018, 8:14 AM
|
|
he never got all the facilities he wanted. If he had he would have underachieved with those. I'm not sure all the reasons but it is more consistent now. Totally different
|
|
|
|
|
Walk-On [123]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 123
Joined: 10/1/07
|
Re: I hear people say Bowden never won 10 games...
Nov 13, 2018, 8:15 AM
|
|
Bowden did win 10 games .......................... at Tulane.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7219]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6986
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I hear people say Bowden never won 10 games...
Nov 13, 2018, 8:17 AM
|
|
You sure that wasn’t Rich Rod?
|
|
|
|
|
Walk-On [123]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 123
Joined: 10/1/07
|
Re: I hear people say Bowden never won 10 games...
Nov 13, 2018, 8:21 AM
|
|
Rich Rod came over with Bowden, Tulane AD did not offer him the job. Ended up costing theTulane AD her job if I remember correctly.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [67851]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 115481
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I hear people say Bowden never won 10 games...
Nov 13, 2018, 8:31 AM
|
|
and once Rich left Bowden teams were never the same
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1404]
TigerPulse: 82%
Posts: 1919
Joined: 4/19/05
|
He was always just one or two plays away from being great.
Nov 13, 2018, 8:19 AM
|
|
that is the phrase that sticks with Bowden. Good but never great. Always had a reason: admissions, facilities, plays, bounces, etc.
He beat uscjr at will. He called, recruited and hired Dabo.
That is what Bowden really did for Clemson. That is how he should be judged.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27366]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26233
Joined: 9/19/11
|
You just HAVE to keep pickin' scabs don't you!?***
Nov 13, 2018, 8:21 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4159]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3989
Joined: 1/22/03
|
Re: I hear people say Bowden never won 10 games...
Nov 13, 2018, 8:28 AM
|
|
All he needed was to add Akron to the schedule on Championship Saturday and viola 10 wins!
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7015]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 12738
Joined: 11/21/99
|
Re: I hear people say Bowden never won 10 games...
Nov 13, 2018, 8:42 AM
|
|
Matty Ice didnt do him any favors
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1135]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 1329
Joined: 5/5/04
|
Re: I hear people say Bowden never won 10 games...
Nov 13, 2018, 8:50 AM
|
|
bowden actually had a lot of talent on his teams.. his problem was getting the most out of that talent. bowden was too lax when it came to expecting nothing but the best from his players and staff. and, bowden didn't "build" his players like dabo does. i mean, just look at our players, today, compared to the bowden years.. we are so much bigger, now. and, every time a player leaves,... another one, that looks almost identical, steps in.. we don't miss a beat. the way clemson builds these players w/ workout ethic, nutrition/diet, sleep studies, etc... clemson is truly a football factory, right now. bowden just got players and coached. period. dabo magnifies the small details that so many others just brush to the side.
and, honestly, i think bowden lost the respect of his players.. he was like the parent that yells and threatens but never actually does anything... a child can sense that and that's when you lose control.. which is what happened to bowden... TDP could sense it, too.. and, that's when everything changed.. it all changed the first day dabo was promoted.. he doesn't yell and threaten.. he expects and delivers. big difference.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93673]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95422
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Comparing Bowden to Dabo is like...
Nov 13, 2018, 9:27 AM
|
|
this. Turn out that dammmmed light, I'm trying to sleep. It's the Sun, stupid.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4059]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4547
Joined: 3/6/01
|
but we were "one play away" quite often!***
Nov 13, 2018, 11:26 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I hear people say Bowden never won 10 games...
Nov 13, 2018, 11:29 AM
|
|
Not defending Tommy, but Tommy never had CBV as a DC. Our D has won so many games for us it is pathetic. They should make the O run steps every practice for their lack of assistance in the wins.
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111630]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73775
Joined: 9/10/03
|
BOWDAN ONE 90 GAMES AT CLEMSON MORAN***
Nov 13, 2018, 11:51 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 32
| visibility 1
|
|
|