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Topic: Dang, I sure wish OP would have stayed...
Replies: 77   Last Post: Jan 21, 2017 2:44 PM by: Judge Keller®
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Dang, I sure wish OP would have stayed...

[8]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 3:37 PM
 

2017-01-20 15_34_11-Oliver Purnell - Wikipedia

On April 6, 2010, Purnell was given a 7-year deal by DePaul University. After 5 consecutive losing seasons, at the conclusion of the 2015 season, Purnell announced his resignation.

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Re: Dang, I sure wish OP would have stayed...


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 3:47 PM
 

> > src='https://s23.postimg.org/o9zyitki3/2017_01_20_15_3
> 4_11_Oliver_Purnell_Wikipedia.png' border='0'
> alt='2017-01-20 15_34_11-Oliver Purnell -
> Wikipedia'/width=450>
>
> On April 6, 2010, Purnell was given a 7-year deal by
> DePaul University. After 5 consecutive losing
> seasons, at the conclusion of the 2015 season,
> Purnell announced his resignation.

I am glad he left, he and his staff got lazy and were not recruiting very good players.

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Re: Dang, I sure wish OP would have stayed...


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:52 PM
 

During the early years he had an upcoming asst coach that was very important in recruiting. You may hv heard of the current coach at U of Texas (Shaka Smart). When SS left Clemson to be a head coach, the recruiting sank like a stone.


yeah that exact same thing was gonna happen here


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 3:47 PM
 

because Clemson and DePaul were equal programs?


Re: yeah that exact same thing was gonna happen here

[4]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 4:15 PM
 

Because OP wasn't a coach with a sustainable plan for Clemson basketball, and the results would have eventually caught up with him.

If he had stayed, and lost in the first round of the tourney for the 4th straight year, he would have been run out of town. But now people are selectively forgetting all of that and trying to compare him to Brad. It's just mind blowing to me.

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The fact remains that Brad has never had the success OP did


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 4:17 PM
 

and remember Op was left with the Shyatt mess to have to clean up


Re: The fact remains that Brad has never had the success OP did


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 4:25 PM
 

OP's gimicky game plan allowed us to recruit some athletes other programs weren't giving a chance. That's not Brad's style, he's trying to get talented basketball players, and they're usually hard to get over the North Carolina schools, especially with the lack of facilities we've had until this year.


I think my next research is going to be the injuries & transfers under Brad versus OP. I just truly don't think it's a fair comparison for Brad.

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Sometimes certain styles are better fits for certain

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 4:28 PM
 

programs. Look at Baylor. They don't necessarily recruit great basketball fundamental players but they just get a bunch of athletic freaks and it has worked wonders for them. I respect the style Brad is trying to employ here but how many years does he get to try and prove that it works? and after how many does it become apparent that that style isn't going to work here?


Re: Sometimes certain styles are better fits for certain


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 4:43 PM
 

Probably this year, no later than next. But that buyout is gonna keep him here unless he just has a catastrophic collapse.

That could happen by the way, and I'm not against a young energetic coach coming in and giving our roundball program some type of signature style.

I just think that the OP comparison isn't fair, for many reasons, and that people need to be realistic about the combination of the buyout and new facility and the position it puts us in right now.

Last night was bad, very bad. And I totally understand why people are upset. But realistically, we can't just kick him out the door. At least not at the moment.

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I have enjoyed reading this back and forth..

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 9:07 PM
 

some good points on both sides. I have met Brad and I really like him. I think he's in a very difficult situation much like Bowden was in. If Bowden would have been here to reap the benefits of all the renovation I still don't think he would have got us to where we are today in FB but in reality we don't know either.

Is this a fair comparison? Of course it isn't. And since I am so happy with our other sports programs I might be more on the side of giving him more time. I didn't like the initial hire at all but willing to wait a couple more years. I don't think a knee-jerk reaction to one game is healthy nor, at the same time, do I think losing a bunch of close games are acceptable either.

That gets me back to where I was. Once Blossingame (sp sorry) leaves I think we will all get a better picture of the health of this program. This situation all probably takes care of itself at the end of next year.

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Thanks for the point....

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 9:43 PM
 

I didn't even think anyone would read it ;)

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Re: Thanks for the point....

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 9:51 PM
 

??????

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Re: The fact remains that Brad has never had the success OP did


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:19 PM
 

Which is why we need a coach like OP that gives us an edge.....

Your excuses for Brownell don't change the results.


Re: The fact remains that Brad has never had the success OP did

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:29 PM
 

I haven't excused Brownell. You're not even reading, you're just posting the first thought you have.

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Re: The fact remains that Brad has never had the success OP did


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:33 PM
 

The post I responded to was filled with excuses for why he's not succeeding....

He's not, period.


Re: The fact remains that Brad has never had the success OP did


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:34 PM
 

You see, this is a thread, it's a whole conversation with lots of people. You should read it and know the whole story if you'd like to join the conversation and not look silly.

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Best class in our history was Wise, Rome


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:40 PM
 

and Abraham. After that Wright and Gray along with McIntyre/ Jamison/Wideman. OP's class with Rivers was better


Re: yeah that exact same thing was gonna happen here


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 9:45 PM
 

> Because OP wasn't a coach with a sustainable plan for
> Clemson basketball, and the results would have
> eventually caught up with him.
>
> If he had stayed, and lost in the first round of the
> tourney for the 4th straight year, he would have been
> run out of town. But now people are selectively
> forgetting all of that and trying to compare him to
> Brad. It's just mind blowing to me.

What does this even mean? Purnell's program did sustain success....

Four straight years 20+ wins, three straight NCAA appearances, three straight winning seasons in the ACC....

No reason to think we wouldn't have continued that trend.

Purnell's departure was a shock. He had just signed an extension. DePaul simply offered him more money. He absolutely would not have been fired for not winning a tournament game that next year.


Re: yeah that exact same thing was gonna happen here


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 9:47 PM
 

You are absolutely clueless about Purnell's tenure here, especially the last two years. Lol.

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Re: yeah that exact same thing was gonna happen here


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 10:04 PM
 

I'm very much aware of how it was during OP's tenure.

Clemson basketball was on the map, regularly ranked in the top 25, LJ was actually considered a tough venue....can you imagine that? We actually hosted a Gameday....


Re: yeah that exact same thing was gonna happen here


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 10:05 PM
 

And another seldom talked about but huge statistic:

Vs. South Carolina

Purnell- 6-1

Brownell- 3-4


yes their was reason to think it would not continue

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2017 9:31 AM
 

graduation of Trevor Booker with Devin and that 5* from Summerville "can't remember his name" to take his place.OP saw the writing on the wall


Re: yes their was reason to think it would not continue


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 10:09 AM
 

Yes I'm sure OP woke up in the middle of the night and saw a vision that one of the best recruiting classes in Clemson basketball history was going to be a bust so he bolted.....

He coached Milt and Devin ONE year....Brownell had them for THREE.

Their lack of development falls on the shoulders of our current coach, not the guy that recruited them.


Re: yes their was reason to think it would not continue


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 10:33 AM
 

Oh, but wait. You said in this same thread, it was a different system. I can keep counting on the times I've proved you a troll in one thread. But i won't.

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Re: yes their was reason to think it would not continue


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 10:59 AM
 

It is a different system. Listen I'm not coming in here starting threads on this stuff, I'm just responding with common sense.

If anybody deserves blame for Milt and Devin's lack of development as players it's the guy that coached them for 75% of their college careers.

The only thing that has been proven in this thread is the false narrative that Purnell "left the cupboard bare"....that's far from the truth.


Couldn't have been the entire class lacked talent, could it?


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 12:16 PM
 

Seeing as recruiting rankings are never wrong and even the two who left did squat


Re: Couldn't have been the entire class lacked talent, could it?


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 1:09 PM
 

So OP shouldn't have recruited a 5 star McDonald's All American to come to Clemson? He should have passed on 4 stars Noel Johnson and Devin Booker, the 38th and 80th nationally ranked players respectively?

Purnell did not "leave the cupboard bare".


On paper the class was great. In reality it was a bust


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 1:29 PM
 

Sort of like the coots in football and their annual top 25 recruiting rankings.

No one said he shouldn't have recruited them, but the reality is they were all vastly overrated. It happens. The class never really made an impact at Clemson or the other schools they played.

What's so difficult to admit about that?


Re: On paper the class was great. In reality it was a bust


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 1:43 PM
 

I've never denied it....

The point is Purnell didn't stop recruiting and he didn't leave the cupboard bare and if you're going to blame someone for those players not developing blame Brownell. Not like he's doing anything special with his own players.


Re: On paper the class was great. In reality it was a bust


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 1:49 PM
 

You obviously don't understand threads and how you've contradicted yourself. It's almost sad.

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Re: On paper the class was great. In reality it was a bust


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 2:05 PM
 

What's sad is people like you still blaming the previous coach for Brownell's failures.


No one is blaming OP for where the program is now


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 2:09 PM
 

What we're doing is being realistic in the assessment of what OP left: 2 really good seniors in Grant and Stitt. Two good role player juniors in Young and Smith. After that, he left bupkis


Re: No one is blaming OP for where the program is now


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 2:16 PM
 

Ok let's say you're right and OP did leave the cupboard bare.....that still doesn't excuse the state of our program now....

It's not up for debate what OP was left and he built a solid program.

Brownell hasn't....


I think most are in agreement with that

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2017 2:19 PM
 

Seven years in no doubt you own it


Re: I think most are in agreement with that


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 2:32 PM
 

Exactly. It would be nice if he could grasp that concept...or perhaps read and understand the entire thread(s)...as I've pointed out too many times to mention.

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I blame their lack of talent for them not developing


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 2:04 PM
 

They just weren't any good. John Wooden couldn't have developed Milt.

And if the class was a bust, then that means Brownell was left with two empty classes to begin his tenure. No ACC frontline players in two classes puts any program behind the right ball.

And I think OP saw clearly in his one year with them they weren't any good


Grant and Jennings improved a lot under Brownell


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 2:44 PM
 

The lack of development occurred under Purnell, not Brownell.

1. Jerai Grant
Purnell's last season (2009-2010): 7.2 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.7 blk, .593 ft%
Brownell's first season (2010-2011): 12.4 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 2.3 blk, .711 ft%

Three years in Purnell's system, and he was never more than a defender and rebounder. Under Brownell, he developed a post game and became a legitimate scoring threat down low. He also became a better rebounder and shot blocker, and improved his free throw percentage a great deal.

2. Milton Jennings
Purnell's last season (2009-2010): 3.3 ppg, 2.7 rpg, .374 fg%, .171 3pt%
Brownell's first season (2010-2011): 8.3 ppg, 5.2 rpg, .410 fg%, .293 3pt%

Again, significant improvement in just one year under Brownell's tutelage. These improvements were very significant. As a senior, Milton averaged 10.2 ppg, 6.4 rpg, and shot .320 from three point range. He obviously didn't become the superstar we thought he would be, but Brownell's efforts certainly maxed out Milton's development as a basketball player.

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Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: Dang, I sure wish OP would have stayed...


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 3:48 PM
 

wished Rick Barnes hadn't left. while here, our BB was very respectable.

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Barnes was shown the door

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 4:11 PM
 

for transgressions...


Re: Barnes was shown the door

[2]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 4:52 PM
 

Are you suggesting Clemson somehow "forced" Barnes out??

If so, that would be inaccurate.

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Re: Barnes was shown the door

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:01 PM
 

thought he left for Texas.

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Re: Barnes was shown the door

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:06 PM
 

You would be correct. And he was not forced out.

http://www.clemsontigers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=28500&ATCLID=205506309

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How did Danny Ford do at Arkansas?

[4]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 4:35 PM
 

From 1993 to 1997 I think he was what...26-30-1?

Trying to figure out what the correlation is between what OP and Ford did after leaving Clemson and what they may have done had they stayed at Clemson.

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Re: How did Danny Ford do at Arkansas?


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 4:44 PM
 

The whole underlying point is that bringing up OP and comparing him to BB is a silly one. I was being facetious.

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Re: Dang, I sure wish OP would have stayed...

[3]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:02 PM
 

OP left the cupboard bare and bolted.

Fact.

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Re: Dang, I sure wish OP would have stayed...

[2]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:22 PM
 

No he didn't.....

He left the best recruiting class in Clemson history and a loaded team for Brownell's first year.

Not Purnells fault he couldn't build on that.

Purnell was left an absolute dumpster fire....Brownell inherited a solid program that was on the rise.


Re: Dang, I sure wish OP would have stayed...

[2]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:24 PM
 

Wrong, wrong...so very very wrong.

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BS.***


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:25 PM
 




Re: BS.***

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:29 PM
 

We had losing seasons 3 of the last 4 years before OP took over....

Would you like to rattle off all this basketball program accomplished in the 4 seasons prior to Brownell?


Re: BS.***

[3]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:31 PM
 

Can't change the argument. You said he didn't leave the cupboard bare, and he did. No recruiting, no roster beyond that last group of seniors. He left us high and dry.


Message was edited by: CtLiEgMeSrOsN®


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Are you dense?

[2]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:36 PM
 

The poster you responded to said, "OP left the cupboard bare and bolted."

You disagreed, apparently suggesting he left the cupboard full. That's BS. Pure BS. The cupboard includes classes full of good recruits an players, which was FAR from the case. OP quit long before he quit. Like the guy said, "OP left the cupboard bare and bolted".


Re: Are you dense?


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:41 PM
 

Again, Purnell had just signed the best recruiting class in the history of Clemson basketball....

You can say those players didn't exactly pan out but that doesn't mean he stopped recruiting and you can blame that on Brownell more than OP because he coached Milton Jennings and Devin Booker for 3 years!


Re: Are you dense?

[3]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:45 PM
 

Milton "stone hands" Jennings and the lesser Booker...that's your arguement. Sigh. You need to go do your research on OP's final year bud...and that recruiting class after he left.

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Re: Are you dense?


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:51 PM
 

Uh no my argument is much more than that.....my argument is simply based on facts.

You're still blaming Brownell's failures 7 years later on the guy he took over from, who had us playing some of the best basketball in our history.

You either need to do some research or take the blinders off Mrs. Brownell.


Re: Are you dense?


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:57 PM
 

Dude, you're oblivious to the fact that this original post was facetious, even though I suggested you read the entire thread, and yet you wanna call me dense?

I don't think Brownell's failures are related to OP. I think bringing OP into the current discussion about Brownell is ridiculous and this is one of many posts I've discussed that in.

I'm not happy with the Brownell situation currently either, and have also said that. But I don't think people need to be bringing up OP like he was a savior and left us in great shape. And I think people need to be realistic about Brownell's buyout and the money we just spent updating Littlejohn.

Because of that, he's probably got all of this year and likely next baring a catastrophic collapse.

Again, if you'd read instead of ignorantly coming into this multi-post discussion, you wouldn't be thoroughly proved wrong just now.

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Still think if we really tank best scenario is for Brad

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:59 PM
 

to just go get another job. He'd find a mid major job easily. He is respected in coaching circles. Exit like Foster did


None of those guys were front line ACC players

[2]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:54 PM
 

that class was the signature of overrated


textbook example***


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:56 PM
 




Re: None of those guys were front line ACC players


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:57 PM
 

They were recruited to play in a totally different system....but even if they were busts that doesn't mean OP quit recruiting.


there isn't a system in the UNIVERSE that those guys could

[2]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 6:49 PM
 

be successful...If you're trying to tell me Devin was more suited for a full court press than half court you are dumber than I originally gave you credit for Sheeter


Re: there isn't a system in the UNIVERSE that those guys could


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 8:58 PM
 

I'm just telling you the facts....that's all. That's all I've ever presented in this argument.

The point is OP was still recruiting towards the end of his tenure, and recruiting well. Milt was the highest rated player to sign with Clemson since the early 90's.

I don't know why you idiots keep bringing OP up anyway.....it's year 7 man. Time to stop blaming him for Brownell's shortcomings.


Re: there isn't a system in the UNIVERSE that those guys could

[3]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 9:02 PM
 

You got names to call people when you're the one who apparently doesn't retain anything he reads.

"I don't think Brownell's failures are related to OP. I think bringing OP into the current discussion about Brownell is ridiculous and this is one of many posts I've discussed that in."

Blaming OP is something that's in your own head. No one here has said anything about it being OP's fault.


Message was edited by: CtLiEgMeSrOsN®

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Re: there isn't a system in the UNIVERSE that those guys could

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 9:12 PM
 

exactly. BB is running out of time and this is probably his last year at Clemson. He has had enough time to build a winner.

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Re: there isn't a system in the UNIVERSE that those guys could


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 9:20 PM
 

Um....you brought up Purnell in the original post in this thread....

Using his record at DePaul to claim that he wouldn't have continued his success here is beyond stupid. Like I said, that would be like saying Danny wouldn't have continued winning at Clemson based on his tenure at Arkansas.

Same exact thing.....


Re: there isn't a system in the UNIVERSE that those guys could

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 9:22 PM
 

For the FOURTH time now, the original post was facetious. Go find a dictionary and come back when you've actually figured it all out.

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That wasn't even OP's BEST class, much less Clemson's best,


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:56 PM
 

you are a total clown for circling the wagons on the turd class


Yep, you're dense.


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 8:46 PM
 

Thanks for the confirmation.


He left the highest rated class, not nearly the best


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:36 PM
 

Of Booker, Milt, Johnson and Hill, who actually became a good player? And Book was ready to transfer if OP stayed


Milton was the best of THAT bunch...I'll just let Sheeter


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 6:59 PM
 

marinate on that one for a while


I think Book was better. But Johnson did zilch at Auburn


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 7:37 PM
 

and Hill was awful at ODU


Yeah and thank goodness, Chad Morris left, as he has


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:14 PM
 

been revealed to be an AWFUL coach based on his record at SMU. Right?

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Re: Yeah and thank goodness, Chad Morris left, as he has


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:17 PM
 

Please read my response to GWP above.

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Re: Dang, I sure wish OP would have stayed...


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:23 PM
 

Using this logic we should judge Danny by what he did at Arkansas.....


Re: Dang, I sure wish OP would have stayed...


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 5:25 PM
 

Please read the thread and my responses before saying the same thing two other people have.

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OPs teams played just like BB's

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 6:26 PM
 

when they got to the tourney.


Re: Dang, I sure wish OP would have stayed...

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 9:42 PM
 

Yeah, he went on to become another coach K. How did we ever let him get away???


####### stupid

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2017 10:16 PM
 

Act like he isnt the 2nd best coach since the early 90s


Re: ####### stupid


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 10:20 PM
 

Act like he didn't leave Clemson holding the bag and screwed his players. They freaking found out on twitter. Yes, he did some good things, right before he screwed everyone.

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